psychiatric violence and aggression

[foolinthedeck]

hi. i work in low risk mental health, but they are paying for me to go on violence and aggression training on this monday and tuesday. i wonder if anyone might have any advice - in return i promise to feedback how violence and agression is handled in a UK mental health / psychiatric situation.

all i can think of so far are basic things like:
dont tell them i do wing chun
keep grounded, rooted, relaxed and sensitive but not obviously so.
pay attention to everything, keep notes.
take some dit da jow with me.

I think i can presume that there will be a lot of emphasis on locks, getting out of and putting on, the getting out of are no problem for me, but not putting on so any very basic pointers would be appreciated (anerlich esp.) also, i think there will be many controlled take downs so again advice please.

i am not expecting any emphasis on punching kicking or being 'direct' in this wing chun way myself. i am also not expecting any chin na style pressure points.

i do expect those running the sessions to be big meaty arrogant types, who i have no problems confronting in a chi sau situation or on the street, but when they get me on the floor in a lock may be over rough..

please lets not let this become another "relative merits of BJJ vs wing chun discussion". Anyone with experience of hospitals and mental health opinions especially appreciated (and the regular sages too.)

thanks:)

[KingMonkey]

take some dit da jow with me
Bwa ha ha ha ha haaa !!!
Sorry.

i do expect those running the sessions to be big meaty arrogant types, who i have no problems confronting in a chi sau situation or on the street, but when they get me on the floor in a lock may be over rough..
It sounds like you're prearing for a fight with these potential instructors rather than learning from them.
My advice would be chill out a bit, digest everything given and then throw up whatever your experience tells you isnt valid or wont work for you.
I would also predict that the instruction will be lame and half arsed like most quick and dirty MA intruction for average Joe's.
Just my humble opinion no offense intended.

[yuanfen]

Old Jong will give you wise advice.Honest-ask him.

BTW

Low level mental health problem level?

Have you been driving on US highways? In the US as soon as you get behind wheels -you are in the zone- the zoozone.

More Americans die daily on the roads than in Iraq, Viet nam or Korea-the weapon most likely to get you is on 4 wheels.

And UFC wont help.

[kungfu cowboy]

I work in psychiatric emergency services, and the stuff they offer is so lame you can't make waffle batter 12 or spotty. (that's real lame)

It's called T.A.P.S. which stands for Therapeutic Assault Prevention System, and is so useless it's extremely funny!!

It's a state requirement to have some kind of training documented, but we of course follow our unwritten rules, because the stuff just doesn't work.

Of course, I can't write them though.

[old jong]

I have been working in a psy hospital for almost 26 years and I had quite a few courses in "specialised" self-defense over the years.Most of these things share good ideas and principles in the prevention and common sense area but lack a lot in the actual physical stuff (IMO) The reason is that the "client" has all the rights to bite and swallow parts of your body but you should never hurt a tiny hair of their's!...(if you don't want to lose your job,that is!)
I have to face agressions on a regular base. Punches ,kicks,hair pulling attemps,grabs,etc and I always used simple Aikido and the defensive aspect of Wing Chun (without strikes) Simple takedowns without hard falls work fine too. But I always stay away from the "client's" teeth!...;)
So,use your good common sense and you will be fine. Never get agressive or lose your temper.

[anerlich]

FID,

you mentioned me but I think OJ's the man WRT this aspect of aggression management. The legal framework involved makes things rather more difficult.

Just go the the course with an open mind and forget your preconceptions.

I think I'd be looking at some form of non damaging takedowns, and control positions from there. Getting the back sounds like a good option. I doubt you'd be allowed to choke a patient out, and joint locks are probably not that great an idea as some may get too worked up to notice the pain or be too wild and you may end up breaking something rather than getting compliance. I'd imiagine the paperwork afterwards could get messy.

I'd want superior numbers if I was trying to control a psychotic person without hurting them and not getting hurt myself. Definitely.

[old jong]

I'd want superior numbers if I was trying to control a psychotic person without hurting them and not getting hurt myself. Definitely.

There is really no other way unless you are taking big risks or you have no choice. I have seen patients resisting and giving hell to 5 men trying to restrain them!...And it would be so easy to simply punch them in the face , choke them or break a limb. It is not a picnic sometimes!...Too much rules! ;)

[foolinthedeck]

just to let you guys know.
the course went really well, the trainers were very professional and well trained.

what i learned was very useful and interesting, whereas wing chun tends to use locks against the opponent and attack the centre, these were breakaway techniques.

i have yet to compare notes with my sifu who also works in the NHS, but i intend to filter knowledge into class and try things out.

IMO what i learned would be very effective. once i have written up my notes and checked the data protection issues i would be happy to share the techniques with you all especially you old jong, to see if they are similiar to yours.

many thanks for your responses.
fool

[old jong]

I'm glad you are happy about your course. As I said ,the "techniques" I had to practice are a little too basic for my taste. We are not aloud to use any kind of locks in fear of injuring the client. We can use some kind of "basket" hug and hope for the best!...It's some kind of clinch work. Not easy when the client is bigger and stronger!...Big guys like myself can always manage but what about our women co-worker?...Many of them are injured on a regular base.
But,the actual "psy" part of the courses I had were good.We learned good things about awareness and prevention.How to detect a potentionaly dangerous situation and act in a safe way.

My youngest dauther is studying to be a nurse.I told her not to work in the psychiatric domain for her safety!...;)

[foolinthedeck]

...unless your daughter is one big girl...

just joking (no disrespect!!)
/dont hit me!

[GLW]

I used to do that job...in both the regular and the locked wards where the dangerous folks were.

Actually, I tended to prefer the locked wards. You KNEW going in that ANY patient in there was capable of doing something very violent and you therefore never relaxed your guard.

In the open wards and especially the adolescent wards, the patients would be 100% non-violent most of the time...but they could be calculating and ambush you. They also could do things like - adolescent floor riots and such.

The rules vary from country to country and in the US, even from state to state.

For example, in some states, if a patient hits you and you strike back immediately, it is listed as a reflexive action and nothing is done. In Texas, where I worked, you can't hit a patient under ANY circumstances. You also cannot use full restraint (i.e. retraining all of the limbs. You can only do 3 point (3 out of 4 limbs) - and I have seen patients work out of a straight jacket with their free foot.

What to focus on -

Locks are dangerous. Those that immobilize due to mechanics - as in you CAN'T move after the lock is done may be fine. Those that put the patient in a position to hurt themselves will get you fired and / or sued.

Those techniques that rely on pain to be effective should be avoided completely. Mentally disturbed people and those on drugs often do NOT feel any sort of pain. They may feel it a day later when they come down...but not as a deterrent.

So, you focus on immobilization. You learn to use the environment - pinning to a wall, a door, the floor, the use of a mattress or pillows to prevent the patient from hurting you or themselves....

You learn to avoid the teeth...as was pointed out...and to avoid being close to medications - thorazine in the eyes stings and will temporarily blind you.

Keep in mind that the minimum to control a patient safely is 4 people to one patient and it is recommended to have SIX (one for the head, one for the torso, and one for each limb.)

Your training in being aware, stable, calm, and in blocking will help...but strikes and obvious throws are to be avoided...legal issues lie there.