Vegetarian, supplements?

[william]

Hey guys,

I'm a keen martial artist, but I also like to keep fit and lift weights. I seemed to have reached a sticking point! My firgure is pretty toned, but I am quite light. I am trying to put on a little weight and build some more muscle mass. This is proving fairly tricky on a veg diet. I'm thinking bout supplementing creatine or something just to get off my current plateau.

Any thoughts? Is this a good idea?

Advice would be much appriated,

Thanks

W

[FooFighter]

Eat more tofu.

[fa_jing]

Sure, if you want breastises:D

Try whey protein and/or cottage cheese, if that is acceptable to you. If you are "vegan," check out articles at www.mikemahler.com

[mickey]

Hello William,

All you may need is to shift the emphasis in your training. The impression that I get is that you do a lot of cardio/endurance exercises. You may want to de-emphasize that and focus on strength development (heavy lifting) for a cycle (See literature on periodization or ask some of our more experienced members such as Ironfist and Ford Prefect for more info). Since you are a vegetarian I suspect that your cycle may be longer to get the gains that you want.

I would suggest that you simplify your weight training focus to four exercises: Squat, deadlift, benchpress, and pullups.

mickey

[mickey]

I forgot one thing william.


STAY AWAY FROM CREATINE!!! IT IS NOT SAFE.


mickey

[stubbs]

creatine isn't safe? why do you say that?
________
Pregnant Girl (http://www.****tube.com/categories/909/girl/videos/1)

[FooFighter]

William:

Building muscles mass or hyperthropy comes from two things your workout and from your diet. To give you pratical advice we must understand your reason and cause to desire to build muscle mass? What is your goal be specifically? What are you doing now in the gym. What are eating now? Where do you want to gain muscle muscle mass? When do you want to accomplish your goal? How do you hope to accomplish your goals? Why do you want to develop muscle mass? Is it for vanity or for function? There is nothing wrong for vanity's sake, but in terms of function for your martial art training that is another question.

Since you addressed your diet veg diet and not your training, I will offer my non-professional opinion. You will need X amount of calories which about 500 more than your present normal caloric intake a week, x amount of protien, x amount of carbs in order to gain lean muscle mass. To understand your caloric needs, you
need to know your body's lean muscle mass and figure out how much protein and carbs you will need to consume to gain that lean muscle mass based that information.

As for your protein source, you may look into different non-meat sources. Since you dont eat meat, then you have to look harder for a good source of protein. Carbs, you better becareful since more of your veg diet is centered around of carbs. Maybe you should be more picky about what type of carbs you take in?

In terms of supplementations, dont use it if you dont need it. Be cautious and learn as much as you can because there is no magic pills. If you have hit a plateau than perhaps you may consider changing your workout as well as your diet. This way, both changes in workout and diet will definitely do something different to your body.

[mickey]

Hi william,

To keep it short:

kidney failure
heatstroke

if not caught in time:

death

Do a search on creatine in this forum or in the main forum. I do remember posting in detail.

Question: Since you are a veggie, why use creatine? It comes from beef!!

mickey

[stubbs]

providing you keep well hydrated, i thought creatine was safe (?). i'll look around for more info when i've got some more time
________
Creampie Milf (http://www.****tube.com/categories/467/milf/videos/1)

[mickey]

Hi stubbs,

There has been NO long term research on the effects of creatine. As I told IronFist in an earlier thread, the present batch of consumers are its guinea pigs. The only positive info on creatine come from the people who are making money off it.

Again do a search on creatine in this forum. I did give more details.

mickey

[Toby]

Well, I'm a non-creatine user but I'm interested in it for the future. I would tend to take it in moderation. Literature I've read says that the initial loading period is probably unnecessary. That would be when the maximum load on your kidneys takes place. Like all things, I think as long as you're sensible it should be OK. I mean, I can die in one alcohol binge. If I could handle it a couple of bottles of spirits in a row would probably do it. But I could drink a glass of spirits a day for the rest of my life and be alright.

[Spark]

man, i would just avoid supplements all together.

I was using this Whey Protein Sheet and I saw ok improvements, but I was getting friggin zits on my arms!

So that was that.

Finding protein is not hard at all you just have to know what foods have it, and there are plenty of them that aren't meat.

[mickey]

Hey Toby,

Take a look at what happened to Alonzo Mourning and Shawn Elliott of the Orlando Magic (basketball). Before creatine came out those guys were super thin. Suddenly they are diesel. But what are the odds of two unrelated players, on the same team, coming down with the same kidney disease? The NBA has yet to fess up about creatine and its dangers. There is just too much money to be made off it.

If you plan to use it, you have my condolences in advance.

mickey

[Toby]

Yeah, like I said, I'm wary of things like that. OK, off the top of my head, here's what I've mostly read about creatine for my bodyweight - most advice says to take 20g a day for 5 days (the loading period). Then, 5g a day for maintenance period (up to 3mths). Other advice I've read has said that the loading period is unnecessary. Cynics have said that that's just a way for the companies to sell more creatine. I think that a lot of people probably do take too much of it. If I go on it, I won't do a loading period. I'll also monitor my results and see whether I'm getting any benefits. If not, I'll stop.

I agree there is a lot of research that has to be done with creatine. I also agree that there is potentially an increased load on the kidneys, especially during the loading period. Then again, in moderation it may be safe. Here's another story - I'm anti-steroids, but Louie Simmons of Westside gym isn't. He's been taking them for 30-odd years. He gets world-class lifting results and says that it doesn't (or hasn't ;)) affect(ed) his health. So for every danger story there is a counterargument.

I'm not familiar with the NBA - wrong country.

[Serpent]

Toby, out of interest, where are you based?

[Toby]

Perth

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Spark
man, i would just avoid supplements all together.

I was using this Whey Protein Sheet and I saw ok improvements, but I was getting friggin zits on my arms!
.

I think that was hygiene

or maybe doing such high protein you just needed something to break it down andflush..like red wine, lemon juice and soda water, more potassium like electrolites ( becauseofthe kidney effect)

last month aside (and only because 41kgs is getting so crazy)..I've been a vegetarian for yrs...if you really want to add bulk the basicrule is complex carb + sugar, dry is better, like bread and processed grains because you don't feel so stodgey and they break down more gently....

also soy milk has huge fat %, so go crazy .....

protein 1hr post workout, complex carb up to hrs post.......

tofu, fruits and veg is good but because they're wet carbs, you can start to feel crusty

also up and alternate your hot and cold fluids because it will help your body deal with all the extra food

[rubthebuddha]

****it, i think i'm gonna have to agree with BL on this one.

SPARKY! GET YOUR ASS TO THE SHOWER. :mad:






;)

[william]

I had a look in the shop, and talked to the guy about it and decided against creatine, and from what you've said I'm glad!

I did however pick up some whey powder, It tastes ok but still I'm still unsure if I will carry on with it. Is there any bad press about that I haven't read?

I thought just a little of that each day might be good?It has a sh*t load of vitamins as well as protein. I dunno though, I may just start eating more brasil nuts!

As for my workout? I dont tend to go to the gym, it just takes up too much time. I usually just to push up variations (as many as possible) pull ups, sit ups and some weights like bicep curls and that kind of stuff.

why do I want to be a little bigger? I really like the idea of being really strong, like being able to be in complete control of my own body weight. I'll have to be a little bigger before that happens!

W

[Spark]

um, well i didn't have them on my arms before or since so i'm pretty sure it wasn't hygiene!

DON'T PICK ON ME! RTB!

haha

[rubthebuddha]

:p

[Ford Prefect]

A word about creatine...

Creatine is not bad for you. That's like saying that protein is bad for you. Creatine phosphate is a naturally occuring substance in the human body and is an ESSENTIAL ingredient in the energy production for not only muscle contraction but for brain activity, organ function, etc.

How your body produces energy is as follows:

ATP/ ADP-CP Energy system: You muscles uses energy from ATP (adesine triphosphate) to contract. Your muscles have a small resovoir of ATP they can pull from. The biporduct of using ATP is ADP, adesine diphosphate. This ADP then combines with CP, creatine phosphate, to creatine more ATP. Again, this is a very limitted energy system. If the work is intense and the energy demands great (weight lifting, sprinting, etc), the muscle will go onto the glycogen energy system. This is an "anaerobic system" ie without oxygen. If the demands are small (long distance running, biking, etc), it will go onto to the oxidative energy system. This is an aerobic energy system...

Glycogen Energy: This is when stored glycogen (basically sugar) undergoes a series of chemical reactions to create more ATP. The by-product of this is lactic acid which gives you that burning feeling when working high reps of things. These stores are what is directly targetted by bodybuilders and what makes you "big".

Oxidative: this is when oxygen undergoes chemical reactions in the body where the muscles can create ATP from it. This reaction is only yields small amounts of energy so only your slow twitch fibers can be powered by it.

In a nutshell, creatine is a huge part of energy production in your body. It's already there and it's in some of the foods we eat. Anybody who says creatine is bad for you, doesn't have any idea about human phsyiology. All extra creatine will give is a little more endurance in the weight room, which will allow you to lift weights a little longer, which will allow you to get bigger when combined with the right diet. Creatine alone won't do much. It causes muscles to retain more water in some people, but that's it and that's not harmful. You just have to hydrate properly.

Please refrain from posting urban legends, conjecture, and bogus info with nothing to back it up.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by william
I
As for my workout? I dont tend to go to the gym, it just takes up too much time. I usually just to push up variations (as many as possible) pull ups, sit ups and some weights like bicep curls and that kind of stuff.

W

i'm hearing ya....but generally I docrazy high vol reps especially push upsand other bw 'd excercises...I can tell you right now, i'm ripped but very very tiny......

of courese exercise plays a part of what reactions occurandwhat your body needs in recovery but more attention should be payed to your diet...if you dont adapt it to what you're doing now or what you plan to add, you won't grow

[blooming lotus]

not so big on creatine, only used it for a short while..but during time, if anything i shrunk,???


ford??

[rubthebuddha]

creatine only increases size when you're drinking enough water for the creatine to stuff into your muscles. how much of the agua were you partaking?

[Ford Prefect]

BL,

It pretty much depends on your diet. Creatine itself isn't a bulking agent in that it actual makes you gain weight. It causes some people's muscles to retain more water and thus appear bulkier, but it doesn't happen to everybody and you need to drink enough water for that to happen. I supplement creatine when I'm bulking and cutting. The thing that determine whether I bulk up or cut down is my diet; not creatine.