"I have nothing left to teach you..."

[Octavius]

You know you've seen it in oh so many kung fu movies. Master takes on disciple. Disciple learns well and becomes really really good. Master tests disciple and when he passes, smiles and says the phrase. Disciple is sad, but now knows to go out on his own and expand on his knowledge, blaze his own path (this thread is partially inspired by the thread on walking the solo path). SO does this really happen in real life? Any of you good folks experience anything similar? Or is it just good olde fashioned movie melodrama?

Me, personally, I don't think I will ever be at a point where my teacher(s) can and will say "you may leave the temple now, grasshopper." They get good and better with time, even while I improve, so we both are on a rising curve. But it is interesting that almost all of my teachers have all told me that at some point, I have to make the MA they teach me into my own, and that they can't help me with that - only I can do it. So, does the title phrase refer to this type of thing, or does it refer to the actual transmission of skills and materials in a given art? Whatcha guys think?

[David Jamieson]

here's my experience:

Karate: After studying diligently for 4 years in Isshinryu, My teacher moved back to his home town with his new girl. More or less a "see ya later, carry on and I think you can get lessons from so and so if you intend to continue". I wasn't sad, wished him well and started to go to taekwondo classes.

Taekwondo, 4 years and the law of diminishing returns was kicking in badly. Frankly, I left out of boredom and the fact that there wasn't any new material to be had. Oh well, it was a good stretch and I still like the reverse aerial crescent kick! It look cool! lol

Kungfu for 7 years, My wife and I were transferred for our work in another city. One day I returned to teh city on my way through to a friends wedding. I didn't stop by for a visit at my former sifus house because we were only in town for a couple of hours and with only enough time to get a couple of things for the wedding. I did drop by the kwoon on the off chance someone might be there, but it wasn't a class day and no one was. So anyway, long story short, former sifu hears I was in town and sends me a long reprimand email about loyalty and a bunch of other stuff.

I thought it was total crap, we argued here in public, he dissed me, I wished him well and you can read the thread in the Southern kungfu section.

since then, I've had teh opportunity to meet and exchange with some really terrific martial artists with great attitudes and none of the kowtow crap that I had bought into previously. so 3 years later, i think i've sorted the mouse turds out of my raisin pile, kept what I like, tossed the rest and I keep going.

Having said that, I think that you will always keep learning, but a teacher with good fundamentals and ability to teach those fundamentals for you to build on is hard to find.

Ultimately, not everything is for everyone and you are eventually just gonna have to be you for who you are and not someone else @ss puppet representitive.

so if ya like what ya do, practice hard. If you keep a good relationship with your teacher that's great. If not, oh well, that's life move on and if you have that particular little grasshopper story to tell, then I think it is likely that either you, or your teacher, or both have likely seen too many movies and are more than just a little bit dillusional. :D

Cheers

[ShaolinTiger00]

I don't think I will ever be at a point where my teacher(s) can and will say "you may leave the temple now, grasshopper."

of course not grasshopper, you pay the bills.

[MonkeySlap Too]

And ST has smacked the correct right in the wallet...

Which is why in my old age (in martial arts years, kinda like dog years) I always respect my teachers, but respect flows in two directions. I don't care to associate with people who exhibit cult-like behavior. Ironically some of that military or confucian style teaching mumbo-jumbo can be good for public classes - mainytains discipline, keeps the gene pool skimmings from accidently hurting one another. But I have no patience for that. Either your mind is close to right, or I can't teach you. As a result my students are all pretty well adjusted, get trained up to where they are decent training partners for me, and we can argue over who buys the beer.

It is A LOT healthier this way.

FWIW, I've never met anyone who knows everything or who doesn't have something new to show me.

[MonkeySlap Too]

KL - which thread in SKF?

[Losttrak]

Its unlikely an American martial arts teacher will ever utter those words. The whole point of the game is their livelihood so they are motivated to keep you there at all costs.

[David Jamieson]

ms2-

the "for whom do you train" thread.

I'm pretty sure it's still all there.

[apoweyn]

In my opinion, it's moviemaking nonsense.

You don't go to a teacher for raw information. You go for training. And at what point does a teacher seriously say:

"I can't make you any better. I can't run you through any more drills. I can't oversee any more sparring matches. I can't observe any more training sessions or lend you any more insight."

Now, that's not to say there's no good time to move on. There is. And there may be a good argument for seeking out coaches or teachers more experienced in specific things. (I might have sought out a coach with more stickfighting tournament experience, for example.) But this "I've got nothing left" is silly. It's not a bakery that just ran out of doughnuts. It's a human mind.


Stuart B.

[Mr Punch]

Left a couple of teachers cos they had nothing left to show me. Does that count?!

really I'm kind of like MStoo, in that I think I can learn something from anybody, but it's weighing how much I'm learning and how much I'm paying that counts.

[EarthDragon]

Octavius ,
you bring up a good point. It is said that when a student has learned enough he must take what he has learned and use it to better himself, this cannot be taught!
Once you learn the stlye in which your training in then there comes a time when you have to take it and make it work for you..................
You can know 100 forms/kata but then when you become good you can flow from just body movement without certain movmements being rehersed. Its called formless form and no one can teach it to you , you just have to do it.

My sifu said a good teacher will teach his student to surpass his own knowledge, a greedy one will keep information from you....

So I would imagine the movies used to like to say that when the student was ready to express a lesson there, like karate kid, cheesy movie but the best martial arts lesson ever!

Good question, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David Jamieson]

...cheesy movie but the best martial arts lesson ever!

ok, now you've gone a little too far with that statement. I really think you should have added " in my opinion" or at least an "imo" :D

Many people take offense at teh nancyness of the whole karate kid series.

Now, I don't particularly dislike them. they have a moral value contained in them.

But in my opinion, the best martial arts lesson ever as far as movies are concerned comes from Circle of Iron a.k.a the Silent flute.

And Master Killer teh 36th Chamber is the best Kungfu movie itself ever made. But I understand that 5 deadly venoms is pretty dang good too! :D

Karate kid though? come on shelly!!!!, no contest, lol :D