Slip, bob, weave

[IronFist]

I suck at slipping, bobbing, and weaving. Anyone have any training tips?

[Serpent]

Get off the dayum internet and train! What's with the recent posting frenzy?

[IronFist]

If I trained right now I wouldn't be able to go to bed in a few minutes.

If I post my questions now, then hopefully I'll have answers when I sign on tomorrow :)

[Serpent]

What a plan!

:)

[blooming lotus]

before I starrt

serpent stfu for 60 secs

Iron,
I know you don't see the value, but I have some considerable boxing history...check out that ab doer dude, cause ahhh, it promotesexactly those movements....

see

www.danoz.com

later

[SevenStar]

ab doer? Is that a fitness product? Nah, do it the old fashioned way and save the money.


1. hang a rope at about temple height. duck under the entire length of it, then duck while stepping backward.

2. focus mitt drills. your partner feeds you for various punches and works in counter punches of his own, which you slip, duck, etc.

3. while sparring, tell yourself that you will ONLY bob weave and slip. Then do it. you will eat alot of punches, but your movement will get better.

4. keep your head moving while you spar.

[yenhoi]

1: Get a partner and practice slipping, bobbing, and weaving his punches. You can do this knowing what type of strike he will throw before hand, or have him mix up his blows.

2: Tennis ball on a rope or a rope with a big knot in it, swing the rope and then slip, bob, or weave or even duck under the thing as it moves around.

3: Attach a rope to two sides of the room then 'stalk' down the rope bobbing and weaving under it back and forth.

4: Speed bag.

When you are slipping, bobbing and weaving remember to move your shoulders and trunk, its not just a head and legs thing. "Dive" past the punches at the last minute.

:eek:

[yenhoi]

The "wall drill" is a type of progressive sparring... you put one foot up against a wall and assume fighting stance, your partner stands infront of you and throws punches with lead hand only for 1 round, then rear hand only for 1 round, then both hands for a round, then switch. The guy on the wall can only defend, no punching back, he has to keep the heel of his "rear" foot on the wall at all times.

Good fun, wear a mouthpiece.

:eek:

[Serpent]

blooming lotus - take your own advice. Danoz? Puh-leeze!

The other posters are giving good advice though. Another good drill is to set up a bunch of sandbags hanging from a tree or similar in a fairly random configuration. Then get in amongst them and start hitting at them and dodging them as they swing.

First off try ducking them, then try dodging without ducking, etc. Takes more setup than some of the other advice, but it works. Looks cool too! ;)

[blooming lotus]

dude...danoz'skept me ripped for yrs....whatever

but you're right, there are some goodposts here......might takesumma tat advice myself

[ShaolinTiger00]

work on parry and blocking then. it's still better than taking a shot. then work on combining parry/slip and you'll build reaction speed.

keep drilling! these things take time and practice.

[IronFist]

Ok, when I do it I bend too much from the waist and not enough at the knees. This results in me leaning in to a lot of punches, which makes them hurt worse because they're coming at me and my face is going toward them.

I also bend my head down too far, and then I can't see the 2nd punch coming at my face, and usually get hit.

Any tips for becoming more mobile in the knees, and keeping my back more upright?

[Water Dragon]

Get a clothesline and hang it at shoulder height. Set a timer for 3 minutes and start walking forward, bobbing under the rope while keeping your back straight. Do this both forward AND backward.

Spar rounds with defense only. You can slip and you can block, no attacks.

[backbreaker]

Actually, I may have some of the same problem as IronFist, I'm also tall so I especially do that with shorter people

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SevenStar

1. hang a rope at about temple height. duck under the entire length of it, then duck while stepping backward.


Shoulder height may be a tad too low - you may end up eating a knee or two.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist

I also bend my head down too far, and then I can't see the 2nd punch coming at my face, and usually get hit.


are you actually bending your head down, or is this from you dending at the waist? If it's from bending at the waist, this problem will fix itself when you quit bending that way. If you are putting your head down, it's probably a reaction from not wanting to get hit in the face. I used to do that.

One of the things that helped me was feeding focus mitts. feed the cross RIGHT NEXT TO your face. don't blink as you watch the strike come in. same with a hook - feed it directly in front of your chin. When you spar, make a conscious effort not to look away.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SevenStar


Shoulder height may be a tad too low - you may end up eating a knee or two.

I don't think so. It's a drill, and he's gonna keep his back straight. Once his body learns the motion, he can make it smaller.

[IronFist]

How about I hang the string at nose height? That's where I always get punched, anyway.

Temple height sounds too high. I don't want to duck under a punch and instead of getting hit in the nose I get hit in the forehead.

SevenStar, yes, I am bending my head forward a bit. I'm also leaning forward at the waist, but I'm pretty sure my neck is bending forward as well.

[Serpent]

Iron, try jabbing straight forward as you duck the rope. In order to jab, you'll need to be upright enough, therefore you'll train yourself not to bend forward too much. Then train the drill without the jabs, just ducking with your guard up.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I train with a headache bag. I play two games. Both need two participants.

1. "Black vs. Blue"
each opponent takes a position on opposite sides of the ball (usually a little less than arms length away) Now you try to smash your oponents face with the headache bag by striking it. YOU MUST NOT MOVE YOUR FEET AND MUST BE SQUARED OFF!

2. "Russian Rulette"
Stand about half an arm length away from the headache bag. Stand straight up and put arms behind your back. The opponent pulls the headache bag back as far as he can and lets go. You have to dodge the bag w/o moving or using your hands.

Besides that, a headache bag is a fantastic piece of equipment for bobbing and weaving. It also helps blocking. I also just box it and work different combos. Its interesting having something "attacking" back while doing some bag work.

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by SevenStar


Shoulder height may be a tad too low - you may end up eating a knee or two. aye, but IF may have a problem with not going far enough. trying it from the opposite end of the spectrum may loosen him up and get him comfy with a happy medium.

kinda like kung fu guys that practice in extra-low stances so that, when they actually fight, they wind up at the right level.

it's also like fish stories: the smaller the catch, the bigger the fish was that supposedly got away. if the guys are impressed by a five-pounder and you catch a four, you just got a small fish -- better luck tomorrow. but if you catch a weenie one-pounder, you gotta make something up to avoid losing face. :)

[IronFist]

I will reply later tonight when I have more time.

What about a double end bag? Is that something that would help? Can I mount that in my apartment?

[Meat Shake]

IF - CPA is talking about a double ended bag.
Works quite well...
But if you are practicing bobbing and weaving wrong, it will just make you good at bobbing and weaving the wrong way.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
How about I hang the string at nose height? That's where I always get punched, anyway.

that's fine.

Temple height sounds too high. I don't want to duck under a punch and instead of getting hit in the nose I get hit in the forehead.

ducking is a small motion. When you duck, the fist may graze the top of your head - if it does, that's fine. Your prime objective is to ensure that you don't take it on the jaw - that's what will knock you out.

Don't duck a straight punch - slip it.when you do, try covering the side closest to the punch. That way, if you don't slip well, you still only take the shot on your glove.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
aye, but IF may have a problem with not going far enough. trying it from the opposite end of the spectrum may loosen him up and get him comfy with a happy medium.

kinda like kung fu guys that practice in extra-low stances so that, when they actually fight, they wind up at the right level.

it's also like fish stories: the smaller the catch, the bigger the fish was that supposedly got away. if the guys are impressed by a five-pounder and you catch a four, you just got a small fish -- better luck tomorrow. but if you catch a weenie one-pounder, you gotta make something up to avoid losing face. :)

yeah, that's a good point.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
I train with a headache bag. I play two games. Both need two participants.

1. "Black vs. Blue"
each opponent takes a position on opposite sides of the ball (usually a little less than arms length away) Now you try to smash your oponents face with the headache bag by striking it. YOU MUST NOT MOVE YOUR FEET AND MUST BE SQUARED OFF!

2. "Russian Rulette"
Stand about half an arm length away from the headache bag. Stand straight up and put arms behind your back. The opponent pulls the headache bag back as far as he can and lets go. You have to dodge the bag w/o moving or using your hands.

Besides that, a headache bag is a fantastic piece of equipment for bobbing and weaving. It also helps blocking. I also just box it and work different combos. Its interesting having something "attacking" back while doing some bag work. 1. What's a headache bag?

2. If you have two people why do you need a bag? Isn't having your partner feed you and you ducking better practise?

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by IronFist


What about a double end bag? Is that something that would help?

Yes.

jab (slip left)
jab (slip right)
jab (slip left) left hook

[blooming lotus]

hard qigong and an abdoer? ...it's only aus $200...check it out..I can see your problem.....instead of taking it somuch in the kness, this will promote postureto pull it back into your hip, thigh...can't explain.....hey I have one Ausytralia..if you pay the postage it's yours ;)

[abobo]

Is an abdoer that crummy ab machine they sell at Academy? There's one sitting in my gym and it stinks.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
hard qigong and an abdoer? ...it's only aus $200...check it out..I can see your problem.....instead of taking it somuch in the kness, this will promote postureto pull it back into your hip, thigh...can't explain.....hey I have one Ausytralia..if you pay the postage it's yours ;)
For ****'s sake, will you shut up.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by abobo
Is an abdoer that crummy ab machine they sell at Academy? There's one sitting in my gym and it stinks.

was that before or after you used it

If you think it's no good , it's probably bcause you dont know how to use it...and you stfu ...I have more boxing experience than most folks on these boards

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus


was that before or after you used it

If you think it's no good , it's probably bcause you dont know how to use it...and you stfu ...I have more boxing experience than most folks on these boards
If it's so good, why are you offering to sell yours?

[IronFist]

Wait, when you're slipping and stuff, it's mostly knee bending that is responsible for your decrease in height, right? I mean you don't like bend forward (which is my bad habbit), but you keep your back fairly vertical (as vertical as it is in your fighting stance) and bend your knees, while leaning just a little bit forward, right?

It's kinda new to me. The only defense I really learned is crazy monkey, and I could only go to that school for 2 months before I moved. Anyway, I didn't really learn any bobbing or slipping or weaving or anything, just crazy monkey to clinch to takedown. I already made a thread about crazy monkey so if you don't know what it is, go search.

Someone recommend a good double end bag. I can mount it in my apartment, right? I mean it's not like heavy like a heavy bag, right? I know there's different sizes and such, so what's a good beginner size, and brand?

[CaptinPickAxe]

Yeah, it just adds a little bit more fun to training. I did solo drills on it, and I think that is it strongest quality. You don't need a partner to get some decent training for bobing and weaving, eye hand cordination, and speed drills.

[IronFist]

Was that a "yeah" to the apartment thing? What is required to install it?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus

and you stfu ...I have more boxing experience than most folks on these boards

Then why do you only talk about ninjutsu and dim mak - arts which you don't have that much experience in?

[blooming lotus]

because I have enough cumulative skill to make a serious system....

and because I have alot of serious practicle experience many of the peeps on these boards will benifit from

and because I wanna know more....If your expertience is greater than mine, please feel free to advise or share what you know...I'm open...I just hate no-nothing d*cksh*ts trying to tell me what time it is....

cheers

[blooming lotus]

ps... I am in China right now, and I am very very tiny....and foreign. It has taken some serious committment and foresaking nearly 1 mths training ( bar few hrs or none daily) to make it here...carting luggage ( and remember I'm a chick Ie: bulk product, clothes and shoes...many shoes)...but point being, not in greatest shape...but the local peeps here are all either :eek: or :D


blows me away, because really, can stay alive but didn't think I was so so competitive.


lol.....

go figure :cool:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
and because I wanna know more....If your expertience is greater than mine, please feel free to advise or share what you know...I'm open...I just hate no-nothing d*cksh*ts trying to tell me what time it is....

Except even when people that obviously know far more than you about a certain subject try to educate you, you just remind them of your straospheric IQ and tell them to read a book.

You already think you have all the answers and there is therefore nothing for you here.

You might as well leave.

[IronFist]

Don't forget those questions IronFist asked about double end bags, slipping, bobbing, and weaving.

:D

[yenhoi]

I think most of the level change comes from you stepping, then bend your knees if you need/want more. You only use your waist and neck to any effect when your slipping to the rear. Even then its mostly about what you are doing with your rear foot and ankle (piston.)

Bobbing and weaving is all about your knees and stepping. The waist can give you a little extra movement at the expense of balance, mobility, time, and power for counter punching.

:eek:

[Gangsterfist]

IronFist,

I don't know if any of these tips will help you, but they have helped me in the past. When I first started sparring with my current class all I had was boxing and okinawan karate experience. So, I fought a lot like a kick boxer in a sense, but with joint locking techniques. I would curve my spine a bit, and tuck my chin. Which is what I was taught to do. Now, after doing wing chun and yang taiji for a while I no longer slightly curve the spine, nor do I tuck my chin. I found these habbits to slow down my mobility actually. Since wing chun is very big on structure I found myself correcting myself when I slipped back into karate/boxing mode (which is not a bad thing, just different than how I train now). I find it easier to bob, duck, and weave against strikes. I am at a more optimal position to move, keeping the spine striaght, tail one tucked, and the head in upright posistion (golden thread theory).

Now, I train some defensive techniques called glass body techniques (I am sure some schools call it something different). This is really practiced with slow sparring. When someone hits you in slow sparring roll the hit off your body by rotating it. If someone lands a punch in your xiphoid process turn your torso and roll the hit off. You are still getting hit, but are also in effect weakening the strike. The key is to keep it slow and when you get hit act like you get hit and try rolling it off your body. There is an old saying that goes along with boxers. They get lots of bruises, and occasionaly get hit. That is because a lot of the hits they are receiving they are rolling off their body. It is a last ditch effort kind of thing to do, but it does work. Just remember to hold no tension in your body and keep it slow, with controlled movements. This also helps you read your opponets body better. Once you get proficient at it, you can carry it over to fast paced sparring more easily.

[abobo]

Originally posted by blooming lotus


was that before or after you used it

If you think it's no good , it's probably bcause you dont know how to use it...and you stfu ...I have more boxing experience than most folks on these boards

This (http://www.exercise-fitness-equipment.com/abs-exercise.htm) is what an abdoer is (scroll down to the middle). I'm pretty confident in my statement that it's a piece of junk. My friends use it to prop up a bench to make a steeper incline.

[Toby]

The AB-DOer pro targets your upper abs, lower abs, obliques and lower back all in one fat-burning circular motion.

The AB-DOer pro will burn fat as it flattens your stomach in just minutes a day.

So BL was right all along! I mean, if the infomercial says so, it must be true. It does upper abs and lower abs and burns fat in one exercise! Wow! I'll take two!

[blooming lotus]

I normally sit it close to a lower chair or sofa or bed or something to get a better angle..but if you can be creative in your workouts, you'll gt better use out of it...

for freaks sake...its called innovative thinking couplesd with genuine desire :rolleyes:

Serpent....wtf is your problem...you know that rarely what you say is true....there are many threads here I have gotten advice from...just not from any of your comments.....,.

I have figured 3 things
1. you are a complete as*hole
2. you either hate or are intimidated by women
3. You are weither lacking esteem or are unwilling to share what you yourself know

peace

[SevenStar]

In all honesty, you don't need an abdoer. There's not one angle that thing will hit your abs with that you can't do on your own. IMO, any ab machine is a waste of money, except maybe those rollers, and even those aren't necessary.

[IronFist]

How does the AbDoer work your lower back (it says it does)? Is there resistence against your lower back? Or are they just being stupid and saying it to sell it, kind of like how people say crunches work your lower back, when they don't at all, because there's no resistence opposing the muscles during crunches.

I mean, they say it works upper and lower abs, and we all know how true that is.

[blooming lotus]

like I said....get creative already


incline and decline lower back extensions and yes...you haveample resistance

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I have figured 3 things
1. you are a complete as*hole
2. you either hate or are intimidated by women
3. You are weither lacking esteem or are unwilling to share what you yourself know

Right, it must be one of more of those things. After all, it couldn't possibly be that you're full of it and I won't buy any of your ****.

[Gangsterfist]

IronFist,

FWIW, you can do several crunch-like exercises that will work your lower back. However, this thread has gone astray. Who cares about abs, this thread is about dancing like a butterfly. So, lets stop arguing about nonsense.

I don't know if you read my earlier post, but those glass body techniques I was referring to really helped me learn how to move when I got hit.

Let us know how your training fairs, and which techniques and drills helped you the most.

Good luck,
GF

[red5angel]

on the bobbing and weaving....

what's the best height to hang the rope? I've seen temple and shoulder height.
Do you want to kep your back straight? If so, all of the bending is essentially in the knees for ducking?

[Gangsterfist]

I would say you always want to keep your back straight. That way you are not committing yourself forwardly, nor giving you opponet anything to work off of. I know a lot of boxers slightly curve their spine forward. This can give your arm more distance reach by doing that and pushing your shoulders forward a bit. It can also defend the body and make defensive swallowing techniques more effective. But it also makes it easier for your opponet to throw you off balance since you are not 50/50. So, there is a reason for both. I prefer 50/50. There is no better way, only preference. Look at dragon style kung fu and their dragon back. Its the extreme of curving the spine but it has its reasons.

Find what works best for you.

[red5angel]

what about if you sort of counter the lean forward with a tucking of the pelvis?
I tend to do that to get some spring on a counter when I get one in. I don't know if it makes sense or not but it seems to work for me, it does require I bend my spine though.

[Gangsterfist]

I always keep the tail bone tucked for structure. You can do it, and its not a bad idea. However, you are still giving your opponet something to work with. If I were to lop you in your shoulder/neck area you are just making it easier for me to pull you down off your center. Keeping your tail bone tucked in will make it harder, and you can train ways to counter my lop, but I would still prefer to be upright and 50/50.

Some styles do that. I believe some long fist style pull put their arm out, and they are inviting you to grab at it. They use that to their advantage. You can do things to 'bait' your opponet, but if they are keen to it, then its all done in vein.

If it works for you it works. I know I still lean forward a bit or backwards a bit from my karate training. So I will have to correct myself from time to time.

[IronFist]

I keep my back fairly rounded because that's how you do crazy monkey. It also helps you keep your shoulders shrugged up, and keeps the stomach kind of far away to help prevent body contact.

Anyway, it's funny about pelvis positioning in fighting stances. From a support standpoint, your back is much weaker with your pelvis tucked in. If you tried doing this while lifting weights you'd be setting yourself up for a big injury. This is why, when deadlifting, squatting, or benching (or almost any lift, for that matter), you're supposed to keep a strong arch in your back (arch = butt sticking out). But if you were to fight like this, you would be leaving your abdomen expanded and stretched out, invited blows and injury.

[Gangsterfist]

Keeping your back rounded will help drop your shoulders and extend your reach. It also makes it easier to swallow incoming punches towards the mid to lower part of your body. It also keeps your weight a bit forward, which gives me something to work off of. I use the lop a lot in fighting and will lop the shoulder/neck area and pull it down towards my center. This really throws your balance off and puts me in an instantly superior position. One dropping elbow after that and the fight is over. Of course I don't use elbows in sparring, I wouldn't want to seriously hurt anyone.

Keeping the pelvis tucked in is probably misconcepted by most people. You don't tuck it in using tension. You do it naturally, its almost like pulling your hip bones slightly in and up. This makes your body a better structure for fighting. Keep your spine straight and your head erect by its crown (golden string theory). This puts you in the most optimal position, so if you do have do something drastic you can move any direct and change your stance to whatever a lot quicker when being 50/50, and keeping your stucture (spine, tail bone, legs) in a nuetral stance.

Hold your arm straight out from your center and stick out your tail bone. Have someone push on that arm until they knock you over. Then do the same thing with your arm centered and your tail bone tucked. The person pushing you will find it a lot harder to do so, and you will resist it a lot easier. That is because of the bodies natural structure.