wah lum buddha palm

[Shaolin Dude]

how many movements does this form have?

[18elders]

little or big buddha palm?

[Xdr4g0nx]

just average those two out:)

[Shaolin Dude]

there's 2? tell me the number of movements for both. I might learn this form at kung fu camp

[Shaolin Dude]

and also, forms like 16 hands, 18 elbows, 7 kicks, does the number stand for the number of movements in that form?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

There's only one Buddha Palm that I know about. It is, however, usually taught in 2 parts. I've never counted the moves but the number in the name of a WL set is not the number of moves.

[yu shan]

In the early 90`s Master Chan had a seminar at Palm Island, Fla. The form being offered was Lok Lo, first section I believe. There were many Shifu`s there that had already learned LL, and I had learned LL at a seminar in New Hampshire. So he taught us a form he called "Little Budha Palm". There is a "Big Budha Palm", so looks to me like there is two BP forms in Wah Lum.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Palm Island 1991. I was there. Sifus learned Buddha Palm and the rest of us learned Lok Low part one. I remember Terry telling me that it was a little different than how we do it now. I was thinking the usual minor differences that seem to occur over time, not an entirely different form.

Anyone (18elders?) have more info on this?

[yu shan]

Terry and I were indeed lucky that weekend. Guess it was LL #1, and we already knew it. So Master Chan was nice to let us learn Lil BP with the Shifu`s. This did not go over so well with them, we were not Teachers... oh well, I totally appreciated it. Tai Chi on the beach was fun!

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

See anybody you know? :)

[buddhapalm]

I have a unique form called Big Buddha Palm. It was passed down through my line from my Sigung who would have learnt it in the 1920's or 30's in Canton. It is slow and soft with occasional fast movements and resembles Tai Chi in its fluidity and is wavelike with all palms, slaps, pokes and chops.

What does the Wah Lum version look like ? My version has 88 movements.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[Shaolin Dude]

is there a place to view wah lum forms videos?

[woliveri]

HuaLin,

The pic is not very clear but that looks like Andy in the far Left.

Yes? The pic is too blurry to identify anyone else. I'm only guessing Andy by body structure.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Looks like Andy (left), unknown, Steve?(18elders), Terry (center), Can't remember the guys name behind him, tall guy w/red shirt possible Jesse?, Jim (yu shan), Leroy. The picture is from the Palm Island Buddha Palm seminar in '91. Terry is doing a move out of the second part so it wasn't a shortened version of the form. I'll have to look into it more.

Shaolin Dude
The only way you'll see WL forms is from video of tournaments and performances and most of the time they're modified. Nothing on the 'net.

buddhapalm
Wah Lum Buddha Palm is fast and has some slow (dynamic tension) parts but not Tai Chi like at all. Very southern. Got any clips of yours?

[CLFNole]

The pose in the picture looks a lot like the CLF Fut Gar Jeurng. Maybe this form came from Lee Koon Hung as he and Si Baat were blood brothers.

Without seeing the whole set it is just speculation of course, however buddha palm with praying mantis seems an odd combo. It was said earlier it had a southern flare, so who knows.

Peace.

[yu shan]

A question I wanted to ask.... so is there?

And I agree with HLL, this BP form in Wah Lum is VERY southern. If you really look at WL forms objectively, they all look southern. Please no crucifixion here, JMO. In my eyes, WL`s "Little Mantis form" is one of there best efforts in Mantis.

I was fortunate enough to have trained (some) with the Late Master Lee Koon Hung, because of my affiliation with Wah Lum. These were some special times, he was a Great Man!

[flem]

yu shan,

you should put " wah lum is heavily southern influenced, or all southern, or not "real" mantis, etc., in your profile, then you wouldn't have to type it as often. just a thought

[18elders]

not everyone looks at a person's profile:
maybe we should just put videos of all the forms up instead

[BeiTangLang]

I have heard the "other influences" refference before pertaining to WL; what are the other influences?
Are they strong influences or minor?

(Or)

Is it a southern based system that has been modified into a northern one?



Please keep in mind that I am not trolling nor trying to be disrespectful, I am just curious.

Best Wishes,
~BTL

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Lee Kwan Shan created Wah Lum Kung Fu. His family style was Tan Tui. He learned Tong Long while hiding out in the Wah Lum Monestary. Later he travelled to Guangdong and started teaching. He left for awhile and travelled to Vietnam, taught a few students there, then returned to Guangdong. It's not uncommon for masters to share techniques and since he spent his life as an escort/bodyguard I'm sure he incorporated anything he learned in his travels into WL.

So WL is basically Tan Tui, Tong Long and possibly anything else that may have influenced him during that time from the surrounding area of southern China.

Kenpo Karate has somewhat the same problem. It's Chinese Chuan Fa. Kung Fu was brought to Japan (they pronounce the characters for Chuan Fa as Kenpo) from China. Japan derived it's own called Karate. Today Kenpo still has trouble fitting in and they argue their Kung Fu roots adamantly. In this country Kenpo is more aligned with Karate because the Kung Fu community pretty much shut them out.

So, just like Kenpo is Kung Fu by way of Japan, Wah Lum is Tong Long by way of southern China. Master Chan is cantonese, as is everyone else who learned from LKS other than the Vietnamese students. You might think of it as a southern representation of a northern style.

BTW, this is all my interpretation based on my experiences. If it doesn't jive with the official history/explanation then feel free to correct me if anyone has more direct knowledge.

Also, WL has some sets with very Hung Ga like dynamic tension. I haven't seen this in other NPM styles.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

18elders
Are you volunteering? I doubt that will score any points with MC or help smooth out the rift between WL and PL. :-)

yu shan
I respect you for speaking your mind and adhering to your beliefs but you and 18elders are in the unique position to offer a direct comparison between the two and as such should see the Mantis influence clearer that others. The more I see and learn about other Mantis styles the more I see in WL. The principles are there, the techniques are the same with some variation. Others have argued convincingly that Big Mantis is Bung Bo. MC told me WL has a Luanjie but it looks different.

[18elders]

i would put the clips up if i knew how to convert them?

[tanglang69]

18 Elders

That would be so cool. Especially for those of us who need a refresher course on a form but aren't able to get anything on tape because we are not in good standing. And don't really care to be. If you are willing to send me videotapes of certain forms that too would be awesome.

Sincerely,
tanglang69:D

[18elders]

what forms you need?

[yu shan]

Your PM box is full... I`ll drop you a line via your e-mail if it`s the same. Excuse me while I continue changing my profile. :)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
I just made some room in my mailbox. You didn't comment on the photo. Do you remember the guys name that's just behind Terry? Anybody figure out the difference between big and little Buddha Palm and which one is in the curriculum?

Guess you guys are going to make me go ask MC about it.

[yu shan]

Flem

I`ll be honest, very glad to hear from you again. Check the profile... guess this means less typing on my part. I sent you a pm a month ago or so, hope you got it. It would be nice to come over and visit sometime, I`d like to pick your brain. :)

Hua Lin Laoshi

You really have a way with words, a southern representation of a northern style, that just about sums it up. Like I have told you thru e-mail, I do see Mantis in WL. But, Wah Lum has that southern spirit, not the spirit of the Mantis. JMO, more to come.

The photo is way too cool, thank you for the flash back. In my opinion, an epic weekend of training in Florida. With these old eyes I cannot identify this person in photo. I have great pics of all of us Tai Chi`n it on the beach, if I could only figure out how!

[Shaolin Dude]

I'll pay for the videos if you guys have them.

[flem]

yu shan,

nope, never recieved te pm. in fact i don't know how... does it alert me when i get one?

[flem]

yu shan,

nope, never recieved te pm. in fact i don't know how... does it alert me when i get one?

[Tainan Mantis]

I too have problems with the pm's.
When I get one and try to reply all I get is failed delivery.
So, for those who sent me an email through this board, please send it to kevinbrazier@yahoo.com

or else I can't reply.