Grappling

[dodger87]

I was just wondering how you could counter a grappler. For eg. He's trying to get you on the floor with a sweep/tackle/throw/whatever those bjj dudes do, what could you do to counter it? Please don't say go to a BJJ gym and learn how to groundfight or whatever, because my aim is to keep on my two feet.

[Water Dragon]

Thing is Bro, if somebody WANTS the both of you to go to the ground, you're probably going to end up there. I'm a Shuai Chiao guy (stand up wrestling) who also does some BJJ. My biggest problem is keeping the fockers standing up long enough to throw them. All they need to do is tangle up and fall down and we both go.

The good news is that you're chances of coming across a ground fighter in 'the street'( <-- Lord, I hate that term) is minimal

[MasterKiller]

www.groundfighter.com/uploads/videos/UltimateTakedownsVol6.ra

www.groundfighter.com/uploads/videos/UltimateTakedownsVol5.ra

[Suntzu]

i would either try to throw them first or fight like heck to not go down...... if we go down... i would try to get back up as quick as possible or keep him as close as possible....

[Ralphie]

Dictate space and pace. Take them out of their game, and make them be reactive. If you don't have an experienced wrassler trying to take you down to practice with, then expect any thoughts you have on the subject to just be theoretical. Learn to escape from the ground.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dodger87
Please don't say go to a BJJ gym and learn how to groundfight or whatever, because my aim is to keep on my two feet.


go to a BJJ gym and learn how to groundfight - seriously. You don't have to learn how to groundfight, but the best way to train against their takedowns is to train against people who can properly execute them. If some buddies at your kwoon start attempting to do takedowns, chances are you will miss miniscule details that make the grapplers' takedowns effective.

[ShaolinTiger00]

the great irony of grappling... in order to learn how to keep standing you train takedowns..

learn the sprawl and brawl. see -chuck liddel. why is Chuck such a good striker? - because he's a good wrestler.

[Merryprankster]

chances are you will miss miniscule details that make the grapplers' takedowns effective.

usually it's more like missing gross movements, vice details.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by dodger87
Please don't say go to a BJJ gym and learn how to groundfight or whatever, because my aim is to keep on my two feet.

Good luck.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Suntzu
i would either try to throw them first or fight like heck to not go down...... if we go down... i would try to get back up as quick as possible or keep him as close as possible....

Well, that is some useful and specific advice right there!

[Suntzu]

glad i could help :D

[backbreaker]

Great videos masterkiller. The stance is sort of similar to IMA but obviously not exactly the same. In IMA they say the center must lead all movements. Alot IMA guys say to move the whole body as a unit, but it must be the center that conrtols and starts the movement. If you move from the hips or shoulders or other joints, you won't be moving as a unit, but most importantly you will collapse a knee inwards or fall outwards, Similar to the takedown defense video. One of my Taiji teachers would challenge anyone to strike him any where on his legs inside or outside.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


usually it's more like missing gross movements, vice details.


I was being nice :p

[dodger87]

I've seen lots of grappling clips where the guy tackles his opponent on to the ground, and most of the time they are just rushing towards them. Howcome no one tries to kick or knee them as when they rush towards their opponent their upper body is in a really low position.

[Internal Boxer]

I've seen lots of grappling clips where the guy tackles his opponent on to the ground, and most of the time they are just rushing towards them. Howcome no one tries to kick or knee them as when they rush towards their opponent their upper body is in a really low position.

This has happened to me in my last tournie fight, opponent sees me go in for take down, kicks me straight in gut, I take full force of kick, pushing and lifting while holding leg, side step take other leg, lifted him, and he lands on his back with me having side control.

when trying to get knees in, if you dont KO them then the floor will be there to greet you. I am not saying that it will work 100% of the time its just kicking or kneeing your opponent while they shoot is very very risky as powerful kicks and knees are not the best answer to a take down, personally I prefer to keep my feet on the floor, sprawl, or try guillotine him.

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by dodger87
I've seen lots of grappling clips where the guy tackles his opponent on to the ground, and most of the time they are just rushing towards them. Howcome no one tries to kick or knee them as when they rush towards their opponent their upper body is in a really low position.

momentum, a body in motion tends to stay in motion.

If he is going full steam ahead and you don't knock him out with your kick or knee expect to be on the ground. Even if you ko him, his momentum might still be enough to knock you over.

Learn to sprawl.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dodger87
I've seen lots of grappling clips where the guy tackles his opponent on to the ground, and most of the time they are just rushing towards them. Howcome no one tries to kick or knee them as when they rush towards their opponent their upper body is in a really low position.

coupla things - first one is distance - there's not much and it's closed fast. you may not have enough room to kick. You may be able to knee, which brings up the second point - it's a one shot deal - if you don't knock him out with that one shot, you're still going down.

[Banjos_dad]

I had a guy shoot in on me to do a two leg takedown and I front kicked him in the face, i guess he wasn't expecting that. Anyway, yeah, abody in motion, so he continued to come forward but now more like a tree falling. He wrapped his arms around my waist & I pushed the back of his head down bending his neck as hard as I could, while pumping uppercuts into his face as many as I could.
That took a lot of steam out of him.

[SevenStar]

he had to have had the telegraph from hades - was he a grappler?

[Banjos_dad]

I think he thought he was a grappler :D

Yeah, I saw him set up for a takedown attempt from like five feet away.

I liked how he didn't even have enough of a Plan B formed, to get the *&#$ off me when he started to receive his pounding.

Chin na also offers many responses to many forms of attack.

B_d

[Merryprankster]

I've seen lots of grappling clips where the guy tackles his opponent on to the ground, and most of the time they are just rushing towards them.

this statement right here tells me that either:

a. you're unfamiliar with what you were watching (non-pejoritive here, don't want a fight) or
2. they didn't know how to do a proper takedown

tackling looks VERY different from properly executed takedowns.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Merryprankster



tackling looks VERY different from properly executed takedowns.

I wish more people would recognize this!

[dodger87]

Okay then, if someone was about to execute a takedown on you guys, what would you guys do?

[dodger87]

And another question, howcome front kicks aren't very popular? in all of the K-1 clips i've seen everybody uses side kicks.

[Merryprankster]

Okay then, if someone was about to execute a takedown on you guys, what would you guys do?

defend the takedown through superior body positioning, then attack when i am no longer in danger.

want to learn to do this?

find a decent stand-up grappler.

[LEGEND]

"Okay then, if someone was about to execute a takedown on you guys, what would you guys do?"

U don't have to go to a BJJ school to defend takedowns. Go to a wrestling class/camp and they'll teach u defense against all sorts of takedowns. A lot of MMA classes do that also. Since I'm not training for a MMA fight...and only for street...I usually work on Double Leg defense. The more common street tackles used by thugs.

"And another question, howcome front kicks aren't very popular? in all of the K-1 clips i've seen everybody uses side kicks."

In MMA fights...a front kick leaves u open for a takedown cause the recovery time to reset your stance. Also it's easy to spot.

[Banjos_dad]

"And another question, howcome front kicks aren't very popular? in all of the K-1 clips i've seen everybody uses side kicks."

--They actually throw a lot of roundhouses too.

About front & side kicks. I've found that it's easier to injure your toes with a front kick than a side kick.
A side kick can be thrown with power from the front leg, but a front side front kick?? The front kicks power is much diminished using the front leg. & throwing the rear one takes a lot more travel time to reach the target.

I used the front kick in my situation because the guy's head was lowered & his upper body hunched in such a way that I wanted to use vertically rising energy (front kick) instead of horizontal travelling energy.

Caveats for front kick. Takes a long time to hit. Leaves you in unstable position. Don't strike with toes or they'll say :( and they'll be little purple balloon animals for weeks & your girlfriend will say :eek: and what happened then she'll be like :mad: