R.I.P. Pat Tillman

[Meat Shake]

Reports came in today that Pat Tillman was shot and killed on duty in Afghanistan. If you dont know who he was, Pat Tillman turned down a 3.4 million dollar deal with the cardinals to go fight and die in iraq. My prayers go out to him and his family.

[norther practitioner]

Afganastan...

but yeah, rip.

Thats crazy, I remember seeing a story on that when he left the nfl to go serve with his brother.

[MasterKiller]

I remember reading about his decision to join the Army. I think he was a Ranger.

Man, I don't know too many people that would have had the guts to do what he did. It's a shame he didn't make it back.

[sean_stonehart]

Indeed... that dude had the stones to give up 3.6 Mil & a nice lifestyle to do some of the hardest things out there. Not many people would do that as it is, much less the professional athletes of the world.

My hat is off to his memory & condolences to his family.

[Chang Style Novice]

The cost of war. (http://www.drudgereport.com/dover.htm)

[Bluesman]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117988,00.html

[Bluesman]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
The cost of war. (http://www.drudgereport.com/dover.htm)

And he has the gall to post this at the end of the article,
Not for reproduction without permission of the author.
He has no regard for what our goverment is trying to enforce, that these photos could be used in an inappropriate way without reagard to the families. But he does not want anyone to reproduce his stuff. Why should anyone regard him?

[Ford Prefect]

RIP. That is a man right there. Makes me feel like a wuss.

[Chang Style Novice]

Bluesman -

I'm sorry, but that's horsecr@p. The gov't. is trying to keep these images out of the public eye because they don't want to acknowledge the cost of war. It's cowardly, dishonest and shames soldiers who make the real sacrifices in war when our leaders wish to pretend that those sacrifices never happened.

Pat Tillman is a hero.

GWB is a snivelling hunk of pus.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
I'm sorry, but that's horsecr@p. The gov't. is trying to keep these images out of the public eye because they don't want to acknowledge the cost of war. It's cowardly, dishonest and shames soldiers who make the real sacrifices in war when our leaders wish to pretend that those sacrifices never happened.

Pat Tillman is a hero.

GWB is a snivelling hunk of pus. FWIW, this policy has been in effect since the first Gulf War, and maybe even before that.

[Chang Style Novice]

Don't make it right.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
Afganastan...

but yeah, rip.

Thats crazy, I remember seeing a story on that when he left the nfl to go serve with his brother.
I know this isn't really that relevant, but why the weird spelling? Were you trying to correct MS?Cos he was right, it's Afghanistan.

Talk about dieing for your beliefs......

[GLW]

You've got to hand it to the gov't types...they DID learn a lesson from Viet Nam.

The change in the minds of the people during that war was led greatly by the images of the dead coming back and the images of destruction. The protests didn't hurt but the cargo planes with coffins coming back helped prompt people like Cronkite to change their public stance on the war.

To avoid this, the military folks learned to CONTROL what the media can see and definitely what images they can get a hold of and publish.

The first and now second Gulf War were black days for the journalism profession.

During Viet Nam and the wars before that, you had reporters travelling with troops and those were some pretty brave guys.


Now, you have most US reporters happy to go to the briefing meetings and take everything they are told as gospel.

And the pity of it is that most people do not remember that the news coverage used to be much mor in depth and questioning.

[Xebsball]

Died for nothing but his suck ass pride.
Hes not a hero, he thought he was/could be a hero. Now he is just dead.

[Xebsball]

The soldier left his house with the intent to kill
Then death is all this soldier deserves
Therefore, die

[red5angel]

The soldier left his house with the intent to kill

sometimes your funny, sometimes your an idiot.

[David Jamieson]

what the americans don't know... is sad really.

you guys haven't been getting "real" news at all. you would be better off getting your news about the war from outside sources.

afetr the first gulf war the enforcement of non disclosure of dead american servicemen was put in place in order to manipulate the news that was coming out of there.

Bush senior didn't wanna deal with another vietnam where the protest at home got so hot nixon had to end that war or else there would have been a real internal crisis in the country.

Uner the Clinton administration, the rule was relaxed and the rule was reinstated under the new Bush admin.

What you really need to understand is this.

There is a site out there that you americans may or may not be able to access. It is called www.thememoryhole.org and they have been cataloguing items such as this since the begin of the attack on Iraq.

The governement is freaking about this cause it screws up their spin! Their spin!!!!

Are lives worth a freaking "spin"? Holy sh.it what's wrong with that picture???

Heres the other thing. THere was a lady who released a photo of the flag draped coffins to a paper in seattle. she didn't do it for coin, she didn't do it to get at teh Bushies. She did it to assure Mothers like herself that their sons and daughters were being treated with the utmost respect and dignity on their long ride back home. The lady had lost a child herself and she had empathy for those folks whose children are dying in bushies war.

You guys think your government hould be able to cancel out the relevance oif the death of your citizenry? that there is messed up lemme tell ya. That is purely an error in thinking.

Do you know that both the lady who submitted those photos and her husband were immediately fired from their jobs at maytag aircraft in Kuwait? Her husband had nothing to do with her decision to send thopse photos and now they are both a couple of more blackballed unemployment stats in the ever growing pile of em in.

People will now use those pictures for what ever reason, and yes, the left wing liberals are gonna squeeze the hell out of this.

But, just so you know. The lady who originally sent those to the paper in seattle had only the best intentions and the warmest regards for the mothers and fathers of those kids in the coffins.

regards and shame on you for defending the Bush administration. If anyone needs censuring it is those people and I'm pretty sure it will eventually happen.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Sad.

my condolences.

[DragonzRage]

Xebsball

Have some god**** respect! This man had the principle to give up a life of fame and fortune to uphold what he believed in. You don't have to agree with what he did, or with his views. But to have the AUDACITY to say that he deserved to die for his "suck ass pride" is complete crap.

You're an immature piece of $hit and quite frankly, I hope that you get his by a bus on your way to school today.

[DragonzRage]

oh and i almost forgot....

RIP RANGER TILLMAN!

[GLW]

Interestingly, I tried the memoryhole.org site...and get a CANNOT FIND SERVER messages....

Hmmmm....

[Judge Pen]

Politics of the war aside, Pat Tillman is a man worthy of honor and respect 'cause he died for something he believed in and gave up millions for the opportunty to fight for his beliefs.

Xesball, your an azz, but people like Tillman died so you could be that azz.

[Yang Fool]

Roger and roger that. How about the Italian dude the Iraqis were trying to execute in front of a shallow grave. The man struggles to get his hood off and was saying stuff like "look me in the eyes if you going to kill me" and "I'll show you how an Italian dies!"

[MatT3T4]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Died for nothing but his suck ass pride.
Hes not a hero, he thought he was/could be a hero. Now he is just dead.

In all of my years, that has got to be the most asshatted thing I have ever read...ever.

Moron.

:rolleyes:

RIP Tillman, and all other armed forces members who died to protect things like our freedom of speech...and the like.

[Chang Style Novice]

I kinda like Xeb, but man...

don't be a knucklehead. What made Tillman a hero wasn't his desire to kill but his willingness to put himself at risk for a cause greater than himself. That he was killed is a tragedy, and so maybe he's a tragic hero, but it isn't death (his own death or the deaths of those he fought) that's the difference. Heroes are made by laying it on the line.

And Tillman did that exact thing.

Sometimes fighting is the right thing to do.

Personally I think it was right to go to Afghanistan, and wrong to go to Iraq.

But the soldiers in Iraq are STILL heroes. The villains (IMO) are the ones sending them there to die for little reason.

[sean_stonehart]

Xeb... you're an azz... plain & simple. While I hope nothing bad happens to you, I hope you go a good long time with nothing good going for you.

As far as memory hole goes... I got the same thing & found this while looking...

*************************************************
Domain ID:D87693852-LROR
Domain Name:THEMEMORYHOLE.ORG
Created On:19-Jun-2002 21:54:37 UTC
Last Updated On:18-Jun-2003 05:12:24 UTC
Expiration Date:19-Jun-2007 21:54:37 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R103-LROR
Status:OK
Registrant ID:PNA14796
Registrant Name:Russ Kick
Registrant Street1:PO Box 1213
Registrant City:Cookeville
Registrant State/Province:TN
Registrant Postal Code:38503
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.9315268604
Registrant Email:russ@mindpollen.com
Admin ID:PNA14798
Admin Name:Russ Kick
Admin Street1:PO Box 1213
Admin City:Cookeville
Admin State/Province:TN
Admin Postal Code:38503
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.9315268604
Admin Email:russ@mindpollen.com
Tech ID:PNA14797
Tech Name:Russ Kick
Tech Street1:PO Box 1213
Tech City:Cookeville
Tech State/Province:TN
Tech Postal Code:38503
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.9315268604
Tech Email:russ@mindpollen.com
Name Server:NS.INTERNETFORALL.COM
Name Server:NS2.INTERNETFORALL.COM

********************************************

The contact domain is up & it looks to a version of the X-Files "The Smoking Gun". Now all we need are the 3 Lone Gunmen.

[IronFist]

thememoryhole.org was all white for like 2 or 3 minutes while it loaded for me, but it loaded.

I'm near Chicago.

[IronFist]

Wait, it won't load for me anymore.

:confused:

[David Jamieson]

the memory hole is not a propaganda site, it is essentially dedicated to showing the people of teh world the things that the US governemnet does not want you to see.

plain as day, right there in front of your eyes in living colour.

THey are advocates of using teh freedom of information act to have documents and photographs released by the US Gov and teh pentagon.

Because of this, there site is not some stupid conspiracy site like rense or some other bull**** disinfo site, but instead it is the real news.

For that reason it is under constant attack by the info warriors. Just for doling out the facts.

www.copvcia.com is another one that is constantly underattack and requires the asistance of otherservers around the world to mirror it because it is also getting attacked constantly. most people are more familiar with it as "www.fromthewilderness.com". but if you can't get through to that, the copvcia address will route you to a mirror server that is up.

Bush probably hates the internet and likely has a crew populating all sorts of conspiracy sites with nonsense so that you won't be able to tell the lies from the truth. Typical cold war BS played out by real vets and the neo cons behind him.

At least under the previous giv, you could get all the tuth about the crap that was going on up front and usually from inside sources. Bush has really created a rift in the belt line and he has pulled some real bs moves in his preseidency. Seriously, he is not worthy of the office and I personally hold him and his crew responsible for every dead body in the Iraq war bot american and Iraqi.

As for the brewing 911, that probably occured because he (Bush) stuck his fingers in his ears, sang lalalalala and let it happen.

check out the video where he sits in the classroom for like 5 minutes or more after the attack on teh US was confirmed. What the hell was he thinking??? 5 minutes? and what were the secret service thinking? How hard would it be to say "excuse me kids, gotta do some preseident stuff,see yall later"?

He endangered his own life (the position of the office), he endangered the school he was in. who's to say someone didn't read his official itinerary and didn't have a plane heading at him right then and there? the pentagon hadn't eben hit yet and teh philly field plain hadn't been downed yet. the whole thing lasted pretty much a full hour with those hijacked jets flying over some of the most militarized real estate in the country...

how the hell does that happen?

anyway, I can't get mad enough at Bush and his crew. they are real nasties, the rest of the world knows it, I think it's time America knew it. It's costing american lives to stuff the pockets of already rich men. Bush on tv declaring himself "I'm a war president". is sickening!

I don't know who you're gonna put in office next down there, but don't let that election fall off a truck for characters like bush to pick up dust off and put on like a nearly new ball cap. You will face a firestorm from within and without if the amn gets another term I would predict.

regards all, and yes, Tillman does deserve some respect. He did what a soldier does and that was his duty. He died for it. And the war might not be right, but as a soldier he followed his orders to the best of his ability. And that's what soldiers are meant to do.

For that he gets respect.

[fa_jing]

Tillman was a real man. Especially for a pro athlete.

[rogue]

RANGER CREED

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of the Rangers.

Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move further, faster, and fight harder than any other soldier.

Never shall I fail my comrades I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong, and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be, one hundred percent and then some.

Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress, and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission, though I be the lone survivor.

Hoo-Ah Pat :(

[bamboo_ leaf]

(He did what a soldier does and that was his duty. He died for it. And the war might not be right, but as a soldier he followed his orders to the best of his ability. And that's what soldiers are meant to do.)

well said.


as a retierd soldier, I can support that.

may he rest in peace.

[Bluesman]

Thank you Ranger Tillman for carrying the sword to America's enemy.
As Prime Minister Winston Churchhill once said, "Never has so many, owed so much, to so few...."

[jun_erh]

It's all over the paper that he turned down the millinos to go to afghanistan, but what's crazy too is that he had actually turned down an even bigger contract frm another team because he felt loyalty to the cardinals for giving him a chance. Not to sound shallow, but I'm glad he didn't die in Iraq. I don't think I wuld be able to take it!

[GroungJing]

Have you ever heard of David Horowitz? He was one of the first to organize Vietnam War protest in and around Berkley California in the 1960’s. He’s famous and was a huge influence in the anti-war effort. He has his own column and you should investigate what he has to say about protesting the war and freedom of information etc….. I’ll warn you he’s a fallen left wingless angel. You won’t see anything on your college campuses today with his column in it , The academic elite don’t like to acknowledge him or a slue of others in that era that have seen the light.

Start by looking up Svid Queteb (sic) he wrote a book called “Milestones” He is the number one influence in Osama Bin Laden’s life and the father of the modern extremist Islamic movement.

Looking into in this stuff will help and answer a lot of questions you might have (it will certainly confirm or shoot down some theories you might have.)

[GroungJing]

I am amazed that in this “Un American age” we live in, that a father can raise and educate his son’s to be true patriots, to be true Americans…Tillman was a man of honor and courage and he is the reason this country is as great as it is.

I’m am just as un-amazed that someone like Xebsball “ the antithesis of Tillman” exists . “Man what an ignorant F###” you are Xebsball

Why don’t you go read Bernard Bailyn’s “The organ’s of American Politics” Or Edmund S. Morgan’s “The Birth of the Republic”.

You can read? Right?

From where I stand your like Muslim lady I seen on TV last night denouncing the USA.
There she was sitting in her house (cause she’s not allowed to walk the streets free..) There she was wrapped from head to toe in black (cause she’s not allowed to show her face in public) There she was spouting non-sense because she’s probably been beaten into believing what she say’s and most defiantly has been kept un-educated and in the dark)

The irony of this is that the left wing counter culture on our college campuses today claim to fight for civil liberties and human rights yet they support this Islamic culture rooted in the medieval times.

Xebsball she has an excuse…….It’s called an “oppressive theocracy”

What’s hell is yours?

[David Jamieson]

GJ-

Yes I've heard of Horowitz. And I think he is too black and white on the issue. As I think many people are.

It's Left wing this, right wing that etc etc.

read that link I posted earlier. It contains quite a lot of the view of how I see the situation.

That link again is:

http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com

I know it's a bit of a read, but it's worth the hour or so it will take to get through it.

cheers

[Xebsball]

Son, you have no idea who you talkinb about (me)
I am a very complex individual and those crap you think about me is not true - in fact im such a complex individual that i myself an above avereage inteligence person sometimes have a hard time understanding the whole full complexness of my being.

Now back to the stuff
Im not an anti-american, thats an oversimplification of what im against but i wont bother to detail that either.
Ill in fact simplify my stuff about this thread:

A soldier should not expect any more and any less than death. A soldier will taste death - that will be either his or his enemies.
Death is what a the soldier brings, then its also what he takes.
A dead soldier got what he deserved - death.
End of story for those who have understanding, for those who dont, screw you blind romantic fools.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Son, you have no idea who you talkinb about (me)
I am a very complex individual and those crap you think about me is not true - in fact im such a complex individual that i myself an above avereage inteligence person sometimes have a hard time understanding the whole full complexness of my being.

Now back to the stuff
Im not an anti-american, thats an oversimplification of what im against but i wont bother to detail that either.
Ill in fact simplify my stuff about this thread:

A soldier should not expect any more and any less than death. A soldier will taste death - that will be either his or his enemies.
Death is what a the soldier brings, then its also what he takes.
A dead soldier got what he deserved - death.
End of story for those who have understanding, for those who dont, screw you blind romantic fools.

This coming from the man that toutes the properties of Rohypnol? :rolleyes:

I can't say who does or does not deserve to die. It's a risk he knew he was taking, and it was not unexpected, but forgive us for honoring his unselfish act (walking away from a life most of us can only dream about because he believed in principles) and calling you an azz for saying what you did.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
GJ-

Yes I've heard of Horowitz. And I think he is too black and white on the issue. As I think many people are.

It's Left wing this, right wing that etc etc.

read that link I posted earlier. It contains quite a lot of the view of how I see the situation.

That link again is:

http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com

I know it's a bit of a read, but it's worth the hour or so it will take to get through it.

cheers

funny i posted that up on the ontopic section of importlove.com (car forum) and i got my ass handed to me that tis propoganda and untrue. they're a bunch of bush lovers over there. lol to each his own. http://www.importlove.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14754

[Chang Style Novice]

Actually, David Horowitz is one of the dumbest right wingers to get major column space in this country. I read his blinkered rants for years before I decided to stop wasting my time with his BS. There's plenty of right wing deep thinkers out there, but he ain't one of 'em.

Dude's almost as idiotic as Marvin Olasky.

[David Jamieson]

shaolinlueb

i think it'
s funny how someone would call that propaganda. lol

It is only what it is. All the stuff in there is pretty much straight from teh horses mouth in other words.

really, it doesn't lean one way or the other, it just states a bunch of allbeit interesting facts that are quite verifiable.

but then, i guess a lot of people don't like truth or democracy when it doesn't go the way they wanted. In which case, they are neither truthful or democratic! LOL

[red5angel]

the memory hole is not a propaganda site, it is essentially dedicated to showing the people of teh world the things that the US governemnet does not want you to see.

no kung lek you retard, it's one of your favorite conspiracy theory pages. Atleast now your advertising where you get all your fukked up messages.



A dead soldier got what he deserved - death.


still working on being an idiot? Go back to funny please.

[David Jamieson]

red5-

you said:

no kung lek you retard, it's one of your favorite conspiracy theory pages. Atleast now your advertising where you get all your fukked up messages.

you are one of the best propaganda machines and neo con ditto heads on the boards. LOL

Now you have become that which you have accused me of being.

that is to say a raging hypocrite. well, at least I'm consistent, unlike you. But I guess all that pent up rage and bitterness about how small minded and ridiculous you feel when faced with facts in the cold light of day has a lot to do with that.

You know, there are literally millions upon millions of people who would like to see Bush Censured, some even would like to see him impeached, most of the world would like to see him out of office and out of power because well, he is essentially insane in the views of many.

I know that you share that raging hate and insanity, seeing as you are consistently calling down people who want peace and you have on at least one occasion stated that you are for raining nuclear destruction upon the people of Iraq because they choose to dissent against an occupying army of foreigners.

You know what man, if someone decided that it was time to put down the evil regime in America and invaded your country, I would be there for you too.

Anyway, I know you can't understand, you are too filled with hate and rage and bitterness towards anything that contradicts your apparent love of war. I understand and I'll tell you that I think that in the end it will be ok. The US forces will leave Iraq, Iraq will become a nation unto itself again, relations will be normalized and a president with a sense for foreign policy will get elected in the United states.

By the way, I don't run any of the hundreds or even thousands of anti Bush admin sites that are out there red5. Most of them are coming from the USA. Including the memory hole site, the boy who cried iraq site, and well, any number of other sites.

how's your jihad for bush going anyway? still holding on there?

cheers

[red5angel]

well, at least I'm consistent, unlike you.

I wish you'd make up your mind, last week you accused me of being too consistant, it was boring, remember? ;)
Let's atleast try to keep our facts straight shall we?

anyway kung lek, keep trying, one of those sites you post is going to have some credibility somewhere at some point. It may be hard to find but you may hit on it one day. Until then, you just keep on bein' crazy!:cool:

[David Jamieson]

yes red5,

I will continue to stand against the injustice of the Bush administration. If that is crazy in your view, then so be it.

ah well, I guess you don't care much for freedom of speech. Typical of the right wing. Theirs (and yours) is apparently a "democracy" of convenience.

cheers

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
GJ-

Yes I've heard of Horowitz. And I think he is too black and white on the issue. As I think many people are.

It's Left wing this, right wing that etc etc.

read that link I posted earlier. It contains quite a lot of the view of how I see the situation.

That link again is:

http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com

I know it's a bit of a read, but it's worth the hour or so it will take to get through it.

cheers


Thanks its always good to share thoughts and info.

Please check out Sivid Quteb's (sic) book called Milestones
It will make anyone rethink thier premise on the "War on Terror" It's the difference from being informed and un-informed

[red5angel]

I will continue to stand against the injustice of the Bush administration. If that is crazy in your view, then so be it.

no no, crazy is buying into every alternative source of news that fits into your worldview, and then siting those unreliable (at best) websites as soundly grounded in fact and reality.





ah well, I guess you don't care much for freedom of speech.

old ground there kung lek, keep up. and pay attention please.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Actually, David Horowitz is one of the dumbest right wingers to get major column space in this country. I read his blinkered rants for years before I decided to stop wasting my time with his BS. There's plenty of right wing deep thinkers out there, but he ain't one of 'em.

Dude's almost as idiotic as Marvin Olasky.

That seems to be the diatribe of liberals everywhere…...

But what you can't deny is that he was as left wing as you can get......during the Vietnam war and civil rights era.

And you can't deny that he was one of the most outspoken mouthpieces for the democrat's for many years.

Now David Horowitz starts to sing a new tune you liberals don't like all of a sudden he's idiotic. Yep, you sound just like some of those communist professors down at your local college who have the heads stuck up their azzes in the halls of academia spouting anti American slogans.

Substance matters…….

[David Jamieson]

Please check out Sivid Quteb's (sic) book called Milestones
It will make anyone rethink thier premise on the "War on Terror" It's the difference from being informed and un-informed

I have heard of this, but to be honest, I haven't gotten around to reading it. However, I do like to be well informed and for the most part I do read what the "other side" lol, has to say about it. It is after all the only way to get a sense of what is happening.

I have recently completed reading David Frum and Richard Perles "An end to Evil". I was quite taken aback with the assumptions they make, the very limited resources they used and the outright fallacy of many of their premises.

Where convenient they would source internet sites. BUt they would not move out beyond the scope of their personal agenda which by the way has been written into the agenda of teh White house and it's current administration.

It is interesting to see who else is on the stage with Horowitz at the site you posted though Groundjing. lol @ Dr.Laura.

I still can't get over her Leviticus diatribe that has become so well known.

cheers

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Son, you have no idea who you talkinb about (me)
I am a very complex individual and those crap you think about me is not true - in fact im such a complex individual that i myself an above avereage inteligence person sometimes have a hard time understanding the whole full complexness of my being.

Now back to the stuff
Im not an anti-american, thats an oversimplification of what im against but i wont bother to detail that either.
Ill in fact simplify my stuff about this thread:

A soldier should not expect any more and any less than death. A soldier will taste death - that will be either his or his enemies.
Death is what a the soldier brings, then its also what he takes.
A dead soldier got what he deserved - death.
End of story for those who have understanding, for those who dont, screw you blind romantic fools.

Don’t give me that son crap!


What does your punk azz know about being a solider?

I’ll tell yea what ya know……..Not a god **** thing!

So don’t try to tell me what your ill-conceived notions are………

Makes me sick to know I’ve done time to in the military defend your right to spout the bull**** that you do.

There’s not veteran that doesn’t understand what Tillman did or what the sacrifice the Tillman family gave for our freedom or for our safety.

I was there (gulf war) the first time around, I have friends there now and I have friends that have bled so your punk azz can spout the **** you do.

Don’t come around here playing me like I’m some kind of sop****re schoolboy.

You have insulted me and every other combat veteran that has defended this country.

You Sir have defiantly shown what you’re made of.

The day you understand what it means to be a solder will be the day you grow up.

It will also be the day you understand what the words commitment, honor, integrity, brotherhood and f***#ing sacrifice mean!

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for what you said and downright embarrassed.

[Chang Style Novice]

People like Horowitz and Olasky are windsocks - they'll point whereever the breeze is blowing. He was a civil rights guy during the civil rights era - and became a Reaganite during the Reagan era. He has no courage to his convictions. The man is simply a spineless follower.

"Substance matters"

Then why not provide some?

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Kung Lek


I have heard of this, but to be honest, I haven't gotten around to reading it. However, I do like to be well informed and for the most part I do read what the "other side" lol, has to say about it. It is after all the only way to get a sense of what is happening.

I have recently completed reading David Frum and Richard Perles "An end to Evil". I was quite taken aback with the assumptions they make, the very limited resources they used and the outright fallacy of many of their premises.

Where convenient they would source internet sites. BUt they would not move out beyond the scope of their personal agenda which by the way has been written into the agenda of teh White house and it's current administration.

It is interesting to see who else is on the stage with Horowitz at the site you posted though Groundjing. lol @ Dr.Laura.

I still can't get over her Leviticus diatribe that has become so well known.

Being informed is what its all about.

Learning about Svid Quteb etc...

cheers

Regardless of where one stands on this war on terrorism it is a good read. And it will at the very least inform the reader how these Arab’s view the West.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
People like Horowitz and Olasky are windsocks - they'll point whereever the breeze is blowing. He was a civil rights guy during the civil rights era - and became a Reaganite during the Reagan era. He has no courage to his convictions. The man is simply a spineless follower.

"Substance matters"

Then why not provide some?

Looks like I already did.



Svid Quteb "Milestones"

Read it. Learn about him...then you will start to grasp the Arab mindset behind what’s going on.

Will see if your olive branch can hold up


And for all you un-knowing what democracy is and what it stands for types...

I also cited Morgan's "The Birth of the Republic” and Bailyn “The Origins of American Politics."

Would you like me to cite something more?

Would you like lots pictures with large print?

Just let me know.

[David Jamieson]

GJ-

Not a biggy. We're discussing ideals and arguing them, that is all.

They are afterall only concepts and ideals...until someone dies, then they are brought to action and tere are a couple of results from this.

One of those results is ultimately a backlash from the families of those who have died.

Having said that. I would note first off that xebsball has pointed out his point and I would also add that he is Brazilian I believe and ergo, no one here has fought for his rights or for his country. He is entitled to his view as are a great many of us here on teh boards who are also not from the states. I am a Canadian and from where I sit, my sodiers have fought for my lifestyle as well, but that was against the Nazi expansionism of world war two.

I don't see an economic interest half way round the world as a particular threat to my lifestyle. Besides, an arab may have all teh differing views he or she likes. How is their view going to effect you unless they are beligerently antagonized as they have been for ages??

seriously, have the muslims been a threat to the world since teh crusades? Is their concrete evidence that it was arabs that were even in the planes on 911? and if so what did those arabs have to do with Iraq? And as well, didn't Saddam get all his power from eth USA, Germany, France and Russia to begin with? Is this a "oops redo!" kind of regime change? With a soften up period of 12 yeasr first just t make sure his evil arab regime is too weak to counter the occupation of the country?

I mean come on here. In all fairness.

George Bush, Tony Blair and their respective administrations lied to the U.N that they wanted to attack on teh pretense that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he and his "regime" were an imminent threat to the US and Britain and in fact the world? Fact: No wmd's have been found and all the paper work on all the programs (some 4000 or so pages of documentation on all programs and current holdings) were provided to each member nation of the UN before the unilateral attack by the US and the British.

Fact: Hans Blix stated that it was highly unlikely that Iraq had any wmds.

Fact: the US weapons inspector also confirmed this and was pretty much immediately charged with pedophilia or something after he spoke ouit about it.

anyway, Bush Lied about the wmds, that's a fact and now, his admin is scrambling to blame anyone they can on "faulty intelligence" meanwhile there are a whole lot of dead innocent people in Iraq and a gowing number of dead Amercans and other nationals in this war that was apparently over last year.

so after the whole fiasco with the lack of wmds, the policy changed to well "Saddam is a bad guy and his regime needed changing" yeesh, there are probably hundreds of dictators on this planet who regularly execute and kill their citizenry, I don't see a biug push for regime change there.

In fact the North Koreans threatened to develop long range nuclear weapons and to use the against the US! What's going on with that?

Anyway, there is so much that is transparent about the whole thing it is really surprising that so many people go off with this "support the troops" nonsense when in fact the problem is the US president, his administration and their foreign policy. It's pretty plain for the rest of teh world to see it.

you think Tony Blair is gonna get elected next round? No way. Beside, the Brits have hardly any soldiers over there as it is. Almost as if they are just a pawn in Bushes game really. I mean how many americans are on the ground in Iraq right now? over 100, 000? How many Brits? less than 10,000? the Spaniards are leaving and what does everyone else have there? The "coallition of the willing" is more like "the coallition of the free handout wanters" yeesh.

Anyway, the war is not really defensible by the neocon right wingers standards or by any standard of basic humanity. Yeah Saddam was bad and so is Bin Laden, but then so is Robert Mugabe, and Kim il Jung and any number of other mini tyrants who on a regular basis exterminate innocent people.

there is no absolute good, there is no absolute evil, but what's going on in Iraq and funded by the american taxpayer just ain't right.


I would add that Tillman is not the only soldier who has dies in a firefight in the so called "war on terror". He didn't even die in Iraq, he died in Afghanistan where it is a hard day in and day out against an ever resurgent Taliban. Even I have friends in that one. I don't agree with the Taliban either, but I find it curious that afghanistan has a huge pipeline for oil and Iraq has 12% of the worlds oil reserves and these are the stages for the war on terror.

What about all the African nations that have nothing but have plenty of Al Quaeda members living and training in their countries?

What about the Al Quaeda Cells inside the west?

Seems awfully suspicious to me.

so everyone still ok with these political threads :D

I mean, I'd be perfectly ok with all of this getting deleted so we can get on with talking kungfu, but I feel compelled to respond to those who are compelled to support Bush even through the overly romantic view and by proxy of support the troops.

cheers

[red5angel]

I don't see an economic interest half way round the world as a particular threat to my lifestyle.

That explains quite a bit.




Is their concrete evidence that it was arabs that were even in the planes on 911?

gotta love conspiracy theories. I bet these were american CIA agents brainwashed and setup to look like it was an attack form Al Quaida :rolleyes:


Fact: Hans Blix stated that it was highly unlikely that Iraq had any wmds

After the war had already begun.


I don't see a biug push for regime change there.

not yet


"support the troops" nonsense

That's right Kung Lek, support the Troops get it? I don't think you are.


In fact the North Koreans threatened to develop long range nuclear weapons and to use the against the US! What's going on with that?

oh come on KL, somewhere on one of your favorite websites there has to be something about the latest train accident in Korea not being an "accident"?


The "coallition of the willing" is more like "the coallition of the free handout wanters" yeesh.

make sense. No really, start to make some sense.


Yeah Saddam was bad and so is Bin Laden, but then so is Robert Mugabe, and Kim il Jung and any number of other mini tyrants who on a regular basis exterminate innocent people.

There's only a few countries willing to do something about these people, we can't be everywhere at once.


What about all the African nations that have nothing but have plenty of Al Quaeda members living and training in their countries?

read last answer.



What about the Al Quaeda Cells inside the west

You mean like the one broken up in germany buy intelligence? Or in Spain? how about the one in greece? Jordan anyone? So easy to forget I guess when they aren't blowing up innocent civilians.


Seems awfully suspicious to me.

and we'd expect less from one who gets his information from the sources you do?

[David Jamieson]

red5 the day you start making any sense whatsoever alert the media LOL :D

yeesh, you're just losing it now man. :rolleyes:

hee hee

such a freakazoid chimpanzee

[red5angel]

that's what I thought, apply a little logic and kung lek falls apart. par for the course I guess.

[David Jamieson]

riiiiiight.

applied logic is what you are all about eh red 5?

NOT! lol

man, show me your logic please. actually, first I think you need to go to dictionary.com and look up logic so you can actually use it in a sentence correctly.


wait, nevermind, I've done it for you:

log·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ljk)
n.
The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.

so, as soon as you can point out a fault in my logic of only using cases in point and factual historical events and questions that are valid, I would be happy to listen.

so:

can you show me security photos of any of the alleged high-jackers boarding the planes on 911?

can you show me where I could see the evidence of them being on the planes vis a vis, their tickets?

can you show me how Iraq is connected to the predominantly Saudi highjackers that are claimed to have been on those planes?

Can you explain why the protocols of dealing with highjackings in the continental USA were not followed on 911?

Has anyone given an answer to why were the twin towers attacked?

Has anyone given clear evidence of wmds in Iraq?

Have any wmds been found in Iraq?

Did or did not Bush and Blair use the pretext of Iraq having wmds as their main reason for attacking?

I got more, but logic those ones up first there smart guy and try not to get off the subject by talking conspiracy nonsense or making personal attacks on me.

If you can produce one shred of tangible and verifiable evidence for any of the questions I have just asked you, then perhaps you could be worth actually discussing this with and Bush ain't so bad afterall.

I await your speedy response
cheerio

[old jong]

This thread is turning into something ridiculous.
Whatever you are in favor or against the present american administration's policies.It is futile to try to convince the other party of it's error on an internet forum.

[David Jamieson]

Agreed Old Jong. :)

BUt I would add, I am right and red 5 is wrong and his girlfriend is loose.





































































and kinda ugly and she smells funny. :D

[Xebsball]

GJ son,

First of all, quit your crap talk about defending my rights to speak or to do anything at all.
Im not focking american, you never defended anything at all for me or the people in my country. Not you and not your fellow soldier boys.
So if you think you did something good for me, well you didnt do shyt, so shut the fock up cos I OWE YOU NOTHING.
Goes without saying your beautiful country of freedom and happiness supported ideologicly, culturally, financially and whatever more a period of MILITARY DICTATORSHIP in my country and other countries. So i do know how your monkey brainwashed heads function to your masters.
Ah btw, you can shove your oil craving war up your focking ass too cos i dont give the slightest fock if you fought in the gulf, in nam or in your backyard.

And what you gonna do now?
Make me do 50 pushups, soldier boy?

[rogue]

On one side of the equation we have Pat Tillman, on the other Xeb, KL and Red. Jeeze guys take your ****ing contest somewhere else. It's old, tired, lacks wit, and pretty much anything else that makes a debate interesting. I like you guys but enough is enough.

[joedoe]

You gotta admire the man's conviction.

Xebby, I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you put it the best way.

[David Jamieson]

but what about all the vitriol that me and red 5 got for each other? :(

lol :p

he's on the jihad, I'm just responding!
But I agree, in actuality I am just pushing it to make a point.

and that point is......


PLEASE GET RID OF THE POLITICAL THREADS THEY BREED ILL WILL TOWARDS EACH OTHER!!!

thanks
that is all.

and fwiw, everybody liked xebby until the all new war on iraq started then the right wingers starte dto hate him. He's mostly angry because of the trade policies that locked out Brazilian beef in the US.

I'm mad because "W" is a freaking twit and I can't stand him.

Nobody "hates" americans here. But man, these threads bring out the worst in anyone.

Especially those b@stards Ross, red5,waterdragon, merryprankster, ap, and everyone else who disagrees with me:mad: :p :D

lol



cheers

[rogue]

KL, sorry man but you you've really stepped off of the curb. Hope you work things out and get back to your old self.

[ZIM]

Sorry to see that threads follow the same predictable circles. :rolleyes: This was a eulogy, not a political thread. Toolz.

Pat was a heroic man. Always a shame for that kind of character to depart the world, no matter what circumstances.

[Serpent]

OK, here's the thing.

If someone is a already career soldier because they believe in defending their country, etc., then they do what they are told and you can't hold them responsible for the choices of their commanders. The hatred for the foreign policy or whatever resides with those issuing the orders, not those obeying them.

HOWEVER, when someone chooses to go and become a part of something already under way, they are making a choice to join with the choices of the commanders. If a large majority of people consider the choices of those commanders immoral and wrong, then don't expect those same people to consider anyone a hero that chooses to join in.

Get it?

And as for the whole, "You should thank us for your freedom of speech" spiel, shut the fvck up. Like Xebs said, the Americans have done nothing but sh!t on Brazil, so don't try to claim some higher position over his opinions, or anyone else's.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Xebsball
GJ son,

First of all, quit your crap talk about defending my rights to speak or to do anything at all.
Im not focking american, you never defended anything at all for me or the people in my country. Not you and not your fellow soldier boys.
So if you think you did something good for me, well you didnt do shyt, so shut the fock up cos I OWE YOU NOTHING.
Goes without saying your beautiful country of freedom and happiness supported ideologicly, culturally, financially and whatever more a period of MILITARY DICTATORSHIP in my country and other countries. So i do know how your monkey brainwashed heads function to your masters.
Ah btw, you can shove your oil craving war up your focking ass too cos i dont give the slightest fock if you fought in the gulf, in nam or in your backyard.

And what you gonna do now?
Make me do 50 pushups, soldier boy?

I just hope in the future we as American start remembering attitudes and the global view of people like you.

It always the same. You people sing a different tune when your in trouble and need our money.

I'm wondering just how prosperous Brazil would be if America cut all ties to it.

I bet you probably wouldn’t be able to afford that computer your spouting your crap from.

[red5angel]

can you show me where I could see the evidence of them being on the planes vis a vis, their tickets?

you mean other then names and aliases on the flight lists? Or how about the remains of visas they found in some of the crash sites? But before you make a move let me help you out here kung lek, they were probably planted right?



can you show me security photos of any of the alleged high-jackers boarding the planes on 911?

not having security videos of these guys boarding only proves your not tapped into the american securities and defense network. Try harder, try again.


can you show me how Iraq is connected to the predominantly Saudi highjackers that are claimed to have been on those planes?

I can't, you don't have the right security clearence ;)


Can you explain why the protocols of dealing with highjackings in the continental USA were not followed on 911?

possibly the small issue of having omly about what, 13 minutes to respond? Keep trying.


Has anyone given an answer to why were the twin towers attacked?

you mean other then being a locus for western financial services? A symbol of the western way of life, and also containing hundreds of lives? Or how about the fact it's been one of bin ladens favorite targets?


Have any wmds been found in Iraq?

no, but it doesn't matter.


If you can produce one shred of tangible and verifiable evidence for any of the questions I have just asked you

Kung Lek, I can't show you anything. There's plenty of evidence presented just about everyday on these things but you continue to buy into conspiracy theories and terrorist propoganda. Your almost as bad as those who perpetrated those attacks because you'd rather have us sit around and not do anything about it for the sake of peace (which ain't gonna happen there sweet cheeks so suck it up). There's nothing worse then a pacifist when times call for action, and they do.

[David Jamieson]

k red, one more time, here's some stuff, you still haven't answered shiot.

you guys still wanna play? lol




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fictitious Hijackers


If 19 Arabs hijacked the planes, why are there
no Arabic names on any of the passenger lists?
If they used non-Arabic aliases, which of the
"innocents " on the lists are alleged to be the
hijackers?
3:1 http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html
Passenger and crew list for AA 11 (first WTC crash.)


3:2 http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
AA 77 (Pentagon crash)


3:3
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua175.victims.html
UAL 175 (2nd WTC crash)


3:4 http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua93.victims.html
UAL 93 (Pennsylvania crash)


If they are alleged to have been using non-Arabic
aliases (19 obviously Arabic men got on board
using non-Arabic ID, with 100% success rate ?),
why did the FBI claim that they were traced through
the use of credit cards to buy tickets in their own
names?


If 9 of the alleged hijackers were searched before
boarding, as claimed in this article
3:5 http://www.policetalk.com/9_hijackers.html
why is there no airport security footage of them?
How did they (allegedly) get on board with knives,
guns, AND electronic guidance systems, while being
searched, but avoiding security cameras and not
being on the passenger lists?
What aliases were they alleged to be using when
they were searched,and if they were not using
aliases, why are they not on the passenger lists?



What of reports that some of the alleged hijackers
are still alive, and had nothing to do with the attacks ?
3:6 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
3:7 http://www.rense.com/general20/alives.htm
3:8 http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/world01/afgwar-die.htm
3:9
http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_12_01/STILL_ALIVE__FBI_Mixed_Up_on_T/sti
ll_alive__fbi_mixed_up_on_t.html
3:10 http://www.corpust.com/CorpusTArchiveFBI70f19Alive.cfm
3.12 http://www.welfarestate.com/911/
3.13 http://truedemocracy.net/td4/24s-c-6men.html
3.14 http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/092001_news_trail.shtml
3.15
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen
23.xml
3.16 http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/alive.html
3.17 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/NEWSTF/stfch11.htm
3.18
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0109190363sep19.story?col
l=chi-news-hed


According to this article
3:11
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:uEUylyDIXdYC:www.dallasnews.com/sharedc
ontent/dallas/nation/9-11/stories/121202dnint911gas.928b2377.html+FBI+Agent:
+Sept.+11+Hijackers+Probably+Used+Gas&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


the FBI now claims that the hijackers used gas to
subdue the passengers and crew. If they used gas
they would have been affected themselves - unless
they had masks. The story gets better all the time.
They somehow got on board with masks, gas, guns,
knives and electronic guidance systems, in spite of
being searched, didn't show up on the airport security
cameras, and were not on the passenger lists.
They left flight manuals in Arabic in rented cars
outside the airport (last minute brushing up on the
way there, about how to fly the things!) and then
crashed the planes in breath taking displays of
skilled piloting. Just to make sure we knew who
they were, their passports were conveniently found
in spite of fiery crashes which incinerated the planes
and occupants. So they got on board with false
IDs but used their real passports ?


If the mythical Arab hijackers really were on the
planes and airport security systems failed due
to incompetence (not once but 19 times!), where
is the major inquiry? I have seen bigger inquiries
into racehorse doping scandals.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[red5angel]

lol, cut and pasting from a conspiracy website is going to convince who again? you really don't catch on very quickly do you?

[PaulH]

No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.
- John Calvin Coolidge
(1872–1933) 30th US president, 1923-9, upon President Harding’s death, Republican

It's been a real privilige and honor to have you among us

Regards,
PH

[David Jamieson]

red5, you are the conspiracy lol.

I'm just posting stuff at random now.
But check those links.

and ask yourself....

cnn is a conspiracy site?



:D

I personally like the fat osama confession vid. That one is great!

Ever seen that one? Where they have a fat osama making all the chit chat about his soccer players. Followed a day or two laters by the skinny osama making his typical freak out speech.

It's all bad. That's all I'm saying dude.

cheers

[Ray Pina]

Didn't Bin Laden make a tape of himself sitting for tea with some other guy pretty much saying he was behind 9/11?

Before 9/11 I was a pacifist and never saw a reason in my lifetime to go to war. But when you go surfing and there's a few guys who were firemen who are no longer in the lineup, and guys have benches devoted to them on the boardwalk and you can see flowers and pictures pretty much any time you go check the waves .... and I remember rushing home from work and seeing the smoke, and walking up Canal St. the next day to go to class and smelling the boddies ... it kind of changes the perspective.

Personally, I think going after the Taliban and Al Queda was a correct move in Afganistan. I hope there is some hidden logic behind Iraq. If there is one postive about it, we have brough the war to the middle east, and I'm sure it diverted Al Queda forces to Iraq to fight us instead of NYC. But I think we have distracted ourselved with that one. And why can't we do a Hands Across Afganistan will all our troops until we get Bin Laden? We've narrowed it down to a country or two. I suspect we may not want to get him yet because then we'll lose our will to see this fight through.

Whatever the case may be, I have to take my hat off for this soldier. Truly following his heart and not the money... this is rare in America today and I highly respect it ( a moment of silence)

Xeb: not all Americans are hateful, money hungry war mongers. Me? I've yet to see a candidate that I would vote for, and just want to write, train and surf.

I've traveled all over the world, even Central and South America to surf and find that people are basically the same (just want to do their own thing). It's the governments. Things suck right now and 9/11 stirred up a bunch of crap. But we'll either settle this or do such a bad job the majority of our populatiuon will have enough and pull out and the world will react with us the way they see fit. This is no different than past world history.

On a side note, during the World Series playoffs I was down south in a bar and everyone was cursing off the New York Yankees.... I feel the rest of the world behaves this way to the USA.

I mean, this is a great country! I'm a poor writer but can somehow afford to live at the beach and get three weeks paid vacation and surf around the world and go up the block and see Jews going to temple, hispanic kids shooting hoops with black and white kids and drive into Chinatown and learn some great $hit from my Chinese teacher. We have tropical states, mountainous states, desserts, planes, large lakes, two oceans and a decent amount of freedom.

No country is perfect and no government will allow total freedown. You choose what you can and can't live with and deal with the consequences, but I'll never allow a nation, state, person or job hold me back from doing what I truly want to do. In the end, we are all free.

If you truly feel so strong about a subject, this forum is not the place to be ... go out and do something about it. Otherwise, it's like being the kid that says life sucks all the time but he never takes any action.

[red5angel]

Didn't Bin Laden make a tape of himself sitting for tea with some other guy pretty much saying he was behind 9/11?

yes but those tapes are easily ignored by kung leks favorite sources for more amusing but less believable information. Occam's Razor does not apply to his kind.

[David Jamieson]

well red5 here's what I notice so far in this thread.

originally it is an r.i.p for Tillman thread.
It has turned here and there to a props for american servicemen in this alleged war on terror.

And you know what, the guys and gals who do their duty and die get my props for doing that. regardless of what i think of bushes war.

Not once do I see you making any comment whatsoever about these people who according to your alleged ideology have died for your peace and well being.

instead you rant and rave about my position against the bush administration.

just wanted to point that out.

by the way i did reference the tea with osama vid where i called it the "fat osama" vid.

cheers

[red5angel]

if you were paying attention more you'd notice that it stated out as a thread for Tillman, then turned to bashing soldiers, then turned to bashing bush, then turned to bashing you.

and while I may not have announced how I feel about our soldiers in Iraq on this thread, I'm pretty sure you know how I feel, I know the ones who matter do.


by the way i did reference the tea with osama vid where i called it the "fat osama" vid.

good try too. I bet that video was made right next to the sound stages for the moon landing!

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
red5, you are the conspiracy lol.

I'm just posting stuff at random now.
But check those links.

and ask yourself....

cnn is a conspiracy site?



:D

I personally like the fat osama confession vid. That one is great!

Ever seen that one? Where they have a fat osama making all the chit chat about his soccer players. Followed a day or two laters by the skinny osama making his typical freak out speech.

It's all bad. That's all I'm saying dude.

cheers



That a pretty weak premises that your standing on.


Granted your position on WMD’s and not Iraq but Afghanistan has real merit.

You lost me with your anti-bush conspiracy jargon

Next thing your going to tell me is that we (The USA) are an evil empire...

Yea,we got you Canadians under our Jack boots (LOL)

Also this thread isn’t about giving props to American servicemen. I for one wouldn’t have slammed any service man for doing his job, let alone some Brazilian solider if he died in the service of his country. That was just crap by Cheeseball (I’m mean xesballs…. whatever his name is) I stood up and said so and I’m proud of it!



While your defending your anti-Bush conspiracies, Islamic terrorist splinter groups have seriously tampered with Spain’s “NATIONAL” election process. If that isn’t a threat to democracy what is?

What’s next?

After 911 the bar is extremely high!!!


Seriously, and I hate to slam Canucks …I’m from the east side of Michigan, I love hockey and probably have a couple of Canadian dimes in my pocket right now. I know I have some Labatt’s Blue in the frig…..and I have plenty of Canadian friends living in Windsor. So' I'm no stanger to to your ways

You know and I know your French Prime minister took a serious hit not supporting us, Britain or Australia. I doubt he survives re-election. I can't help to think you would change your tune if that big needle in Toronto got taken out by a bunch of crazed Islamic terrorist.

Are you going wait around till that happens? Are you going to wait for these nut jobs to take difference with your non believing Canadian ways, then attempt to screw with your democratic rights by blowing up some mall in Montreal?


A threat to our way of living is a threat to your way of living.



I can hear you now “If you leave these guys alone all will be right with the world!” Wrong…better read that book called Milestones and understand it’s Osama’s playbook. Better look into his interviews and see what he saying. This isn’t a crackpot small movement…10,000 terrorist where trained in the middle of the desert…where did the money come from?

Do you want to live in a world where Islamic Theocracies hold oil over every one's head? Oil is what they plan to use as one hell of a trump card to liberate the world of non-believers....

You want to live in a world where international terrorist hold your government hostage?

What do you think would happen to Canada’s economy if you had to pay $15 for a gallon of gas?


You know what a fatwa is? Cause Osama Bin Ladden used one to make it legal and morally justified for any Muslim to take your life!

Of course Kung lek you might be Muslim ........

But if not…… Best look into this Fatwa thing....

[Ray Pina]

Kung Lek, I admire your peaceful position, I really do. I'd want nothing more than for all sides to just see we are all people just trying to do our thing.

But with that said, there is a war on right now and it is not "alleged." There is no doubt in my mind that if these terrorist could get their hands on a nuclear device, they would detonate it in Times Square killing me and pretty much everyone I care about. For that simple reason alone I support this war. Maybe if I lived in Kentucky or Alaska I'd feel differently, I don't know.

I also recognize the fact that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Like Tillman, Bin Laden has turned his back on quite an extravagant lifestyle to live in caves to fight for what he believes in. See, my eyes are open and not jaded. I can see both sides.

Personally, I would have gone on the record years ago and said we are invited guest of Saudi Arabia. If any organization has a problem with that, take it up with Saudi Arabia or any other country that HOSTS us. If they want us out, fine. Pull out all support and do business elsewhere. Also, if any terrorist action is supported/sprung from such a nation, that nation is fully accountable.

I'm one for recognizing peace and hope, but once a line is crossed war is war. News has made it so we feel bad about dropping bombs on cities, but that's what war is. I think Saddam felt we were too nice, so he gave us the middle finger and pressed his luck. Even now, if we flew some B52s over those cities, the fighting would clean right up. It sounds viscious, but I agree with statagies of old. Don't go into war lightly, but once you do don't put a premium on killing.... trying to be so PC puts our soldiers at risks.

[red5angel]

While your defending your anti-Bush conspiracies, Islamic terrorist splinter groups have seriously tampered with Spain’s “NATIONAL” election process. If that isn’t a threat to democracy what is?


didn't you hear? That was rigged by the bu****es, ithad nothing to do with the fact terrorist don't care where your from, they're just firmly focused on the biggest dog of them all. The little dogs they'll smack down later. ;)

[David Jamieson]

Ground Jing -

Your saying that Spains national elections being rigged is the same thing as someone saying that bin Laden is on teh Bush admin payroll.

they're pulling out because the spanish people don't want to be in the war anymore and have elected a government that supports the view of the majority of voters in spain.

The only countries in Iraq right now with any real sort of military power are the US and Britain. the rest of the so called coallition of teh willing is made up almost entirely of lipservice support.

I agree, Afghanistan is a real problem, teh Taliban are a real problem, but I think Hussein and Iraq were effectivel neutered in the first go round where we all got together and kicked his @ss.

However, I think the UN collectively made an error in allowing him to remain in power, but in actuality, I think it was Daddy Bush that flip flopped on that.

But the sanctions were working, the balance of the rest of the member nations seemed to agree with that assessment and the new paperwork was not granted to the US for that reason.

At that point, Bush Jr. basically joined hands with Tony blair at his side and told the rest of teh world to go f.uck themselves. They then unilaterally decided to invade Iraq. the very first thing they did was to secure the oil fields!!!! Geez, Am I the only one who's getting this?

Have you ever read " The Prize"? by Daniel Yergin? I am certain that this book will provide significant impact on your thinking about the nature of geopolitical thought since the turn of the century and with the petroleum economies that we have become dependant upon and how it shapes the map and the ideologies of our governments and the rest of the governments of the world.

Those who don't play the oil game are relegated to sitting oin the sidelines waiting for hand outs and aid packages from those who do is what is basically comes down to.

Anyway, the whole "terrorism" thing started not because of oil, but because of Israel and Palestine and has grown out of that muck and mire mostly. I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember quite a few of the things that went down from when I was a kid and forward. The oil game started to get bad in the early 50's when the US shut their suppliers out of any ownership in the infrastructure they had built which in turn caused them to band together and form OPEC.

since then it has been snowballing, but really, all of the reasons for it were really realized during world war two.

Japan essentially ran out of gas. Sure, Truman dropped the big one (twice) and they (the japanese) finally realized that they were licked and surrendered. BUt ultimately, it was more about them being unable to supprt their forces than it was being bombed.

the carpet bombing of tokya caused much more death and destruction than the a-bombs to hiroshima and nagasaki did.

anyway, the arab nations have essentially always felt slighted by the US in being shut out of the Gasoline infrastructure of Northj America when they supply pretty much all the crude petroleum.

they also feel slighted with the creation of Israel and having it plunked right into the middle of their region.

Now don't get me wrong I'm all for an Israeli state and I think that they have as much right to nationhood as does the vatican or Canada or the US or anyone. But this is a mitigating factor in what has brought us to where we are today and that is essentially on the brink of all hell breaking loose in teh middle east and in fact, it more or less has been leaking out all over the region since the 60's.

so basically all my life this has been going on. Hatred fueld by more hatred, fueled by more hatred fueled by petroleum based economies that need to keep things in a disarray for exactly the reason that has been stated. Cheap gas!

Man, I would prefer real research was funded by our governments into Hydrogen fuel cell technology instead of this continuied dependance on petroleum.

One of the reasons a lot of that research is not getting funded is because of the people who are getting rich from the petroleum economy! IE people like George Bush and his Family and their cohorts.

In the next 10 years, Canada will have a 900km (approx 500 or so miles) hydrogen fuel station corridor set up from Windsor (across the river from detroit) to Montreal.

This corridor will serve as the test bed for the new energy and technology and if it is a success, it is unlikely we will ever see a war like this again. People will forget about the middle east like we've forgotten about africa (what did we do while the rwandan genocide happened? Nothing! and we had soldiers on the ground there! and 1 million people were slaughtered without any help whatsoever against their tyrant)

So please, don't talk to me about righteousness or the right thing or honour or any of that nonsense, It is nonsense and that is all it is. If you are too blind or faulty in your thinking to believe this war in Iraq and the problems in the middle east is anything but money for a global elite you are dead wrong. No wonder the arab insurgents are like rabid dogs! No wonder the Israelis are everyday having to lock down their country a little bit more.

It is BECAUSE we are wasting energy more and more everyday and lining the pockets of the warlords who get it for us instead of searching for real solutions.

Anyway, rant over.

regards

[rubthebuddha]

good points all around, agreement or not.

as a car buff, i'm really jonesing for the day in which we get our hydrogen vehicles. what's disappointing is that hydrogren, like so many other sources for automotiv-ation get touted as "within the next five years" when eventually they wind up getting pushed back more and more. the problem with hydrogen is production and storage -- it's expensive. the cars themselves are relatively simple, but the method of fuel production is not.

now, in regard to the nature of the conflict with terrorists, rather than iraq specifically, is that the most significant of the terrorists don't view it as an anti-US and anti-UK war -- many of them view it as a war against the western world, period. pulling out of any specific country won't necessarily solve the greater problem, and neither will becoming totally isolationist. we're not under any "get out or else" threat -- we're under a general threat pretty much regardless of what we do. if we fight, we're a target, if we back down, we're still a target. i think bush is a ****wit, and i think his political intentions are often corrupt, but at least the dolt (or someone in his administration) realizes that the threat will not go away unless someone makes it go away.

[ZIM]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
now, in regard to the nature of the conflict with terrorists, rather than iraq specifically, is that the most significant of the terrorists don't view it as an anti-US and anti-UK war -- many of them view it as a war against the western world, period. pulling out of any specific country won't necessarily solve the greater problem, and neither will becoming totally isolationist. we're not under any "get out or else" threat -- we're under a general threat pretty much regardless of what we do. Exactly. Even with hydrogen cars and all the other niceties, they'd still come.

The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And this war become a real quagmire

Come on baby, set Fallujah on fire.

[David Jamieson]

rub-

here's my spin.


we in the west or whoever else wants to join in develops hydrogen based energy (the most abundant element in teh universe by the way).

we then drop the petroeum dependency and replace it with Hydrogen.

we then completely don't have to worry about a lot of the ramifications associated with the energy markets and the wars they cause and we can still maintain our greedy guts consumption!

everyone is happy except for the people who don't have hydrogen production and are still dependent on oil. But then, let them continue their fight about it so long as the nuclear proliferation ban is in place, chem and bio weapons are completely banned and research is stopped on them and no one is allowedt o weaponize space, then it's all basically down to greedy b@satrd number 1 shooting at greedy b@stard number 2 and who give a crap about them so long as you , me, our brothers. sisters, cousins, uncles and aunts, mothers and fathers don't have to go to some freaking sanmd pit to die for the oil barons so we can live the dream of driving a 4 wheel drive freaking truck in an urban environment where it is completely un-needed.

Are we insane as a civilization? or what? I mean honestly, wtf is it that drives us besides greed and want?

Here we are all trying to be honourable martial artists, moters and fathers, sisters and brothers but at the root of it what are we really when we look in the mirror?

I ride a motorcycle, not only because it's cool, but moreso because I consume very little gasoline with it. The car I share with my wife is a small toyota, also light on consumption. If I could afford a hybrid, I would get one but they are too expensive right now.

When the corridor is up across our country, you can bet yer @ss we're getting a hydro car and we'll be nonpolutting as we laugh our ways to cleaner air and the complete change in paradigm. Frankly I can't wait!

here's a little fact that will freak people out I think.

even though there are a great deal of nuclear power station and hydro electric power stations in North America, the amount of fuel that we use that comes from fossil fuel in the western hemisphere is more than 70% of the total!

That is way to freaking much! And way to few people controil those resources. And it is those people who have a lot to do with the pat Tillmans of the world getting killed in some far away crap hole where the air is 30% feces (true fact!)

I would like nothing more than to leave those countries entirely and let happen what will happen there. We have to give up teh junk and we have the ways and means of doing it, but our pushers don't want us off yet.

it totally sucks!

[David Jamieson]

zim-

they won't be coming here anymore if we close the gates to that mindset. It would help if we weren't screwing them over anymore too by strangle holding how we do business with them and buy taking over their countries by installing thei governemnets to serve our habits.

You ever wonder why so many of these "terrorists" "hate" teh west? you think it's just for the heck of it?

The beef goes on and off for years and years and centuries, but todays problems are all about phony puppet regimes and oil dollars.

[ZIM]

No. They won't be coming here anymore if we close the gates, period.

Terrorists aren't the 'rational actors' that you can base state policy on. Other than killing or violently persecuting them, that is. Israel, Britain, Russia have told us that for decades through their examples. They're right.

Oh, and NO, I don't give a fig why they hate us. The fact that they kill the innocent is quite enough.

[David Jamieson]

dude, teh j-dams have killed 10x the innocents the terrorists have.

Maybe I'm not making the connection here but I think the west started the whole mess.

Most recent history beginning with lawrence of Arabia and the British installation of various monarchies throughoutthe region.

But if we go really far back, we could see the crusades begun by Pope Urban th 2nd being the real starting point of the clash between the middle easterners and the euros.

The US, Canada, Mexico and the rest of this hemisphere being relatively new in the grand scheme of things nationwise speaking that is.

[rogue]

ZIM, KL will keep thinking this way until Canada gets it's own 9/11.

[David Jamieson]

rogue-

what kind of stupid @ss thing is that to say?

You don'tthink there were canadians in those buildings?

what's wrong with you anyway?
I am perfectly capable of seeing what's going on.
Ya see, up hyar in the great white north we get real news and not the watered down sanitized drievl that serves for news where you are in your ever increasingly blacked out country.

you wanna know something that ain't a secret everywhere else?

the guy that runs the federal communications commision in the good old US of A you know just happens to be Colin Powells son.

You may or may not also know that the FCC regulates pretty much anything that gets on the airwaves in the US of A.

You do the math buddy.

Is tere something in your water? I'm honestly at a loss for words with some of the flag waving nonsense and pure bile you guys are spewing. Well not you particularly Rogue, but zims little poem copped from teh doors song regarding:


The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And this war become a real quagmire

Come on baby, set Fallujah on fire.

I don't see how this is different than so called terrosists calling for death in your country.

Don't you guys get it? Violence is not a solution. That's what the rest of the world has been trying to tell the Bush administration and teh people who support it. Apparently you guys will not change your minds.

Guys like me already have changed our minds about the value of war and occupation of othe nations by force.

geez!

[YinYangDagger]

Rogue - I'm with you. My Marine bros are gonna show'em what it's all about. Blow that SOB up. Then let's see who's dancing in the streets.

[ZIM]

What? My doggerel on a Kung Fu forum is equivalent to the pronouncements of terrorists worldwide?

OH, gotta watch it now, man.....

[David Jamieson]

zim-

you're calling for a city to be set on fire. YOu think that's cool?

you don't think there are kids in that city?

or is it all just a wasteland of dirty murderous arabs to you?

I don't understand where some of you guys are coming from sometimes.

Yeah, you are gonna have problems when you invade and occupy a country for whatever reason. Boisterous talk and posture does not make your case any more plausible and will not gain you any support from the rest of the world.

What is it that you think kungfu is I wonder?

[YinYangDagger]

Nice point KL -

Here's what I think kung fu is for:

The total destruction of your enemy and or attackers.

Styles like Hsing-i, Eagle Claw, etc. were created by Generals of the ancient Chinese armies for one thing, and it wasn't so they could "cuddle" with the enemy. Have you seen some of the "lesser known" Chinese/kung fu weapons that went onto the battlefield? The ones that caused MORE damage withdrawing from the person than entering them.

I suppose you'd say kung fu is for health, helping people, art, whatever. I've heard that too, but it's not my philosphy for practicing martial arts.

As far as the kids in Fallujah, I blame that on the town people in that city. All they got to do is rise up against the terrorist in that city and say NO MORE, go somewhere else. Oh, sorry, haha, they can't do that, BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE KILLED.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Nice point KL -

Here's what I think kung fu is for:

The total destruction of your enemy and or attackers.

Styles like Hsing-i, Eagle Claw, etc. were created by Generals of the ancient Chinese armies for one thing, and it wasn't so they could "cuddle" with the enemy. Have you seen some of the "lesser known" Chinese/kung fu weapons that went onto the battlefield? The ones that caused MORE damage withdrawing from the person than entering them.

I suppose you'd say kung fu is for health, helping people, art, whatever. I've heard that too, but it's not my philosphy for practicing martial arts.

As far as the kids in Fallujah, I blame that on the town people in that city. All they got to do is rise up against the terrorist in that city and say NO MORE, go somewhere else. Oh, sorry, haha, they can't do that, BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE KILLED.

I hate getting into these political debates, but that attitude is pretty average. Turn it around wrt Sept. 11 and see what you get. I am betting this is what the terrorists were saying.

"As far as the people in the WTC, I blame that on the people in the USA. All they got to do is rise up against the oppressive foreign policy in that country and say NO MORE, go somewhere else. Oh, sorry, haha, they can't do that, BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE KILLED. "

Not very funny is it?

[YinYangDagger]

Yeah, it IS rather funny LOLOLOLOL

thanks for the laugh

[scotty1]

Joe doe good point.

KL you're gonna end up pulling your hair out man.

I think the truth is somewhere between a few people's viewpoints, but I tell you what YYD, it's nowhere near yours.

You think levelling Fallujah is going to HELP the situation in Iraq?

You think that would make the rest of Iraq think, oh sh!t, we'd better behave ourselves now, or do you think the result would be more like ANGER towards an OCCUPYING FORCE that has just levelled a town in their country.

Some of you guys say some things that are thick as f.ucking pig sh!t sometimes.

I'm no pacifist, but lets not take the p!ss, eh?

[rogue]

You don'tthink there were canadians in those buildings? Not enough to matter to guys like you. 9/11 was an attack on the US, not Canada, not Iran, not Togo, not anybody else but us here in the lower 48, aka the Great Satan. When someone attacks Canada on his way to his 70 virgins then come back and tell me how you feel.



I am perfectly capable of seeing what's going on. Then try it sometime.

[YinYangDagger]

Beam yourself up Scotty. We all have our own viewpoints, eh?

[red5angel]

they're pulling out because the spanish people don't want to be in the war anymore and have elected a government that supports the view of the majority of voters in spain.

yeah, couldn't be because they ca't stand up for their freedom and democracy, like if they pull out now, the terrorist will leave them alone and just go after those fighting the war in Iraq. :rolleyes:

See, I guess Kung Lek, you and spain have something in common - you retards think it's a war against america. But maybe you don't really understand what it is the terrorist want? You should do more reading on muslim extremists and hwat they really believe, not what your hatred for america is making you believe they want. Rogues' right, you just fukking wait until the day your country is in the crosshairs. Rogues not wishing anything on canada, he's just pointing out what is inevitable, unless Canada miraculously converts over to islam.

as for Fallujah Scotty1 - we do need to go in there. We don't need to level it, but we need to get in there and we need to make an example of these guys who are too ignorant to understand what's going on. They want an end to occupation by the US, that's their claim, yet their fighting us, delaying our leaving, and fighting the very processes set in place so that we CAN leave. Makes you start to wonder what really is going on there doesn't it? Like maybe those poor *******s are either too blindsided by their religious beliefs to fully understand their actions. Too busy waging war on the infidel to pause for a second and pull their heads out of their a$$es. Maybe too interested in ruling their own country with an iron hand, and imposing their own brand of dictatorship? Those guys want america out because we are bringthe chance for education and freedom.

[scotty1]

Beam yourself up Scotty.

lol, haven't heard that in a while.:rolleyes:

Red5, I do think that now we're committed, we're committed, and pulling out is no longer an option, for Britain any more than the US.

We said (or Tony said) that we'd support you guys over there, and I think to pull out when the going got tough would be pretty disgraceful.

I'm glad it's not my job to sort that situation out, because it's a f.ucking mess. Having said that, a gung-ho attitude doesn't help any situation. That much is clear to anyone with half a brain. And I'm not referring to you Red, as your posts are not really what I would say is gung-ho.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
They want an end to occupation by the US, that's their claim, yet their fighting us, delaying our leaving, and fighting the very processes set in place so that we CAN leave. Makes you start to wonder what really is going on there doesn't it? Like maybe those poor *******s are either too blindsided by their religious beliefs to fully understand their actions. Too busy waging war on the infidel to pause for a second and pull their heads out of their a$$es. Maybe too interested in ruling their own country with an iron hand, and imposing their own brand of dictatorship? Those guys want america out because we are bringthe chance for education and freedom. That's about the most jingoistic slop I've heard in a while.

[red5angel]

That's about the most jingoistic slop I've heard in a while.

how do you figure?

[David Jamieson]

red5-

that you cannot "figure" is indicative of your own mindtrap.

I actually feel kinda sorry for you now the more i see what you put here.

you are parroting lies and deceit that is pumped into through your tv and the propagandaists at the helm.

most unfortunate :(

I hope you grow up soon and get a taste of what peace really is.

[red5angel]

I could have swore that was masterkiller who posted that?:rolleyes:

[ZIM]

I wasn't gonna post on this again, but here goes: You've got a point. I don't want to burn the place- I want to carpet bomb it with bacon.

I'm just a poor unfrozen caveman, frightened & unfamiliar with your modern ways.... :p

[diego]

Originally posted by rogue
Not enough to matter to guys like you. 9/11 was an attack on the US, not Canada, not Iran, not Togo, not anybody else but us here in the lower 48, aka the Great Satan. When someone attacks Canada on his way to his 70 virgins then come back and tell me how you feel.


Then try it sometime.

if i'm paying canadian taxes and canada is in bed with bush...i think they hate me just as much as you rouge

or do they only hate yanks?...i thought they were attacking wall street not america??

why haven't they started bombing schools etc if they hate every american child etcetc

[diego]

Originally posted by scotty1
Joe doe good point.

KL you're gonna end up pulling your hair out man.

I think the truth is somewhere between a few people's viewpoints, but I tell you what YYD, it's nowhere near yours.

You think levelling Fallujah is going to HELP the situation in Iraq?

You think that would make the rest of Iraq think, oh sh!t, we'd better behave ourselves now, or do you think the result would be more like ANGER towards an OCCUPYING FORCE that has just levelled a town in their country.

Some of you guys say some things that are thick as f.ucking pig sh!t sometimes.

I'm no pacifist, but lets not take the p!ss, eh?

if buddy seriously beleives that then i need to get what he been beaming up off namean:)

palestine vs isreal comes to mind...you yanks think you that freaking scary????lmao yall read too many captain america comix as a yout

[YinYangDagger]

I read Captain America comix as a yout....

wait a minute, what's a yout??? :D

[diego]

i won't lie captian america was my isht as a young rudebwoy yout :cool: seen

[MasterKiller]

This one is for Kung Lek:

http://www.bushflash.com/unb.html

[red5angel]

thats right up ole kung leks alley - he wipes his glasses on someone elses shirt and that has to make him a baby killing satanist!
or it could go to underline how paranoid and eager conspiracy theorists are to find anything and everything, put it out of context and turn it into propoganda.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
thats right up ole kung leks alley - he wipes his glasses on someone elses shirt and that has to make him a baby killing satanist!
or it could go to underline how paranoid and eager conspiracy theorists are to find anything and everything, put it out of context and turn it into propoganda. Like turning a BJ into a national media circus? :o

[red5angel]

since when was Billy Jack a national media circus? ;)

[MasterKiller]

wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Lotta that going on lately.

If any Democratic administration would have pulled 1/2 the **** the Bush administration has, there would have been an impeachment hearing by now.

Lying in his State of the Union address, forging documents about Iraq's weapons capabilities, lying about the amount of money required to budget for Iraq's reconstruction.....and why hasn't Kenneth Lay, his biggest $ contributor, served any time for his role in the Enron scandal?

[red5angel]

lol! lying...forging...you and KL should get together and put together a webpage.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
lol! lying...forging...you and KL should get together and put together a webpage. He lied in the speech. It's already been established that the CIA forged those documents. But if it's all on the CIA, why hasn't George Tennet been fired?

You're deluded, my man. Plain and simple.

[YinYangDagger]

yeah, and John Kerry is the real man :rolleyes:

And NO, military folks DO NOT interchange the meaning between ribbons and medals. Why would they? They aren't the same thing. As a matter of fact, there are more ribbons you can get than medals.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
yeah, and John Kerry is the real man :rolleyes:

And NO, military folks DO NOT interchange the meaning between ribbons and medals. Why would they? They aren't the same thing. As a matter of fact, there are more ribbons you can get than medals. Maybe he should have signed up for the National Guard and then not showed up for duty instead of doing two missions in Nam and getting 5 medals to show for it.

[DragonzRage]

Originally posted by Xebsball
Son, you have no idea who you talkinb about (me)
I am a very complex individual and those crap you think about me is not true - in fact im such a complex individual that i myself an above avereage inteligence person sometimes have a hard time understanding the whole full complexness of my being.


A soldier should not expect any more and any less than death. A soldier will taste death - that will be either his or his enemies.
Death is what a the soldier brings, then its also what he takes.
A dead soldier got what he deserved - death.
End of story for those who have understanding, for those who dont, screw you blind romantic fools.


Complex? LOL! More like you're a young moron with no friends, whose never done $hit, doesn't know $hit, and is so stupid that you yourself don't know what the hell you're talking about. Complex my a$$. Your profile says that you were born in 1982. Ha! You've been out of your mother's friggin womb just long enough to know jack$hit, so put the rohpynol and the crack pipe down and come back to earth.

As an American I can respect the opinions of other people on this board or anywhere else who are against american foreign policy, and present intelligent, coherant, and respectful arguments to support their positions. The reality is that I don't agree with a lot of American policies either. But your complex and enlightened comments about soldiers dying for their "suck ass pride" prove nothing but how much of an immature little $hit you are. Even people who share your negative opinions of current American military actions agree that you sound stupid. You sound like a disrespectful, spoiled little turd who at the enlightened age of 21 (just barely old enough to buy beer in america) thinks he knows everything. Too bad that in reality you're such a retard that you can't even make friends or avoid sounding like a jacka$$ on an internet kung fu forum. lol! Your daddy should smack some sense into you.

[YinYangDagger]

I believe that to be propaganda. We've already heard the people in the same unit as Bush tell their side to the story. And most of them remember him there, on duty.

And yeah, Kerry went to the Nam, but it's what he did when he came back that makes him more of an a$$.

And, like I said, he's lying through his teeth stating military folks interchange the words ribbons/medals. That's a complete and total lie. It may sound OK to someone that wasn't in the military, but for the ones that were, we kinda chuckle and laugh among ourselves in disbelief.

Bush isn't the greatest President we ever had. But in an election where National Security is on the line, and that should be priority at this time in the game, Kerry just doesn't cut it.

Lesser of two evils, if you can understand that.

[red5angel]

maybe we should pull a spain and elect someone who won't do squat for our war on terror?

[ZIM]

I prefer to call it "The Spanish Impulse". It sounds so....spanish.

Oh! Here's one for you... (http://www.iverdean.com/allahpundit/jihadprintsimage.jpg)

[YinYangDagger]

red5 - That's the road we're on, and it's scary. If Kerry got elected and pulled out all the troops in Iraq to make all the pacifist-types happy, not only would we be the laughing stock, we might as well put a big huge target on America.

I have a theory, but I'm gonna wait and see what happens.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Bush isn't the greatest President we ever had. But in an election where National Security is on the line, and that should be priority at this time in the game, Kerry just doesn't cut it. What specifically doesn't Kerry bring to the table?

[YinYangDagger]

Intestinal Fortitude

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Intestinal Fortitude Please explain.

[YinYangDagger]

Having the guts to do what needs to be done.

Whether Bush was right or wrong for attacking Iraq, we have varying opinions of it. But, it was done.

We have to finish what we started. The current state of affairs can't be likened to some card game. Just fold and get the heck out. In other words, we can't just say, OK, move everyone out of Iraq, and we'll call it even. It doesn't work that way with the fundamentalist.

What's started has started. We either finish it or we get finished.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Having the guts to do what needs to be done.

Whether Bush was right or wrong for attacking Iraq, we have varying opinions of it. But, it was done.

We have to finish what we started. The current state of affairs can't be likened to some card game. Just fold and get the heck out. In other words, we can't just say, OK, move everyone out of Iraq, and we'll call it even. It doesn't work that way with the fundamentalist.

What's started has started. We either finish it or we get finished. Where has Kerry stated that he will fold and pull out? He's always maintained that we cannot afford to leave Iraq, as far as I know.

[YinYangDagger]

Maybe he never stated it, but it boils down to this:

People that were FOR the war, will vote for Bush.

People against the war, will vote for Kerry.

Democrats have the tendency to be lacking when it comes to National Defense. That's not some off the wall theory I made up. It's just par with Democrats.

I hope you're right MK. If he gets elected, we need to maintain the fight, and not lighten up. The first time we lighten up, we'll get lit up. Again.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
People that were FOR the war, will vote for Bush.

People against the war, will vote for Kerry.

I supported a war in Iraq, yet would vote Kerry were I a US citizen. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Chang Style Novice]

You think Kerry lacks intestinal fortitude?

Three purple hearts show you're wrong.

Say, what's Bush's combat experience?

[YinYangDagger]

Hate to burst your bubble CSN :D

Military folks don't regard the Purple Heart with as much awe as the civilian world. Let me explain:

You're walking down the street, a bomb goes off 5 blocks away, and a piece of rock happens to hit you in the arm and causes a scratch. Voila, instant Purple Heart.

In the Marines it was always a joke, you got a Purple Heart because you were too stupid to get out of the way ;)

I'm not trying to downgrade the PH. You can recieve it for having 70% off your body burned (a nasty situation) OR for having a piece of shrapnel hit you in the a$$.

[MasterKiller]

Silver and Bronze stars don't mean ****, either?

[YinYangDagger]

We always hear about the "Bush Propaganda Machine"

But as far as Kerry's military record, meant to "show the public" how much of a hero he was, is part of the "Kerry Propaganda Machine".

Wow, THREE Purple Hearts, LOL. It works for those not in the know, and doesn't for those who do.

[Chang Style Novice]

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html

PDF documents, no fakery.

Say, what's Bush's combat experience again?

[MasterKiller]

Intestinal Fortitude:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Silver_Star.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Bronze_Star.pdf

[ZIM]

I will not criticize Kerry's war record, nor his post-Nam stuff. I just don't think he's a good candidate. Listening to him, he comes off as straight up Socialist, and nope, I don't think he'll do a good job with the terrorists- I believe he'll go the appeasement route, the spanish impulse. And it won't work.

Even the left has its doubts, you know. (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0417/mondo1.php)

Kerry: Not now, maybe later.

[YinYangDagger]

yes, Silver and Bronze stars do mean something. they weren't inquired about :D

Yes, I know that Kerry has "combat experience", but to throw your medals, err, ribbons, err medals, whatever away and turn to protest is a major lack of intestinal fortitude.

Vote for who you want, I'll do the same. I'll vote Republican, because they stand for values that I believe in. You vote Democrat because you feel the way you do. It's the American way.

Sorry I got caught up in this. NO ONE is going to change their partisan because of a message board. This is ludicrous.

Hey MK, what weapons form you working on now?

[MasterKiller]

Hey MK, what weapons form you working on now? The little seen Bush-whacking stick.:p

Actually, I've been working on rope-dart since November.

[YinYangDagger]

Rope Dart is a cool weapon. Can you twirl it and make it stick yet? Or is that only in the movies?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Rope Dart is a cool weapon. Can you twirl it and make it stick yet? Or is that only in the movies? It's not really sharp, so it doesn't stick in things too well. I can hit trees with it from a pretty good distance; it's solid, so it makes a pretty deep mark in the bark, but it won't stick.

[YinYangDagger]

Can you get a sharp one? Or are you not ready for one of those yet?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Can you get a sharp one? Or are you not ready for one of those yet? I don't know if they were meant to be any sharper. It's heavy, and it would definitely crack your skull if it hit you at full speed. I was under the impression it was more of a concussion weapon than a stabbing one, but I don't know for sure.

I've put enough knots on my head with the this one. No telling what damage I'd cause if it were any sharper. A classmate of mine needed 5 stitches after he busted his head open with one similar to mine. It's a real beyotch to learn.

[Judge Pen]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1792200

[red5angel]

"I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures

sounds like him and Xebby are sharing the same IQ as well.