Shaolin history questions...ATTN: Gene...

[Gangsterfist]

Okay, I know there is a lot of debate about kung fu history. I am writing a story that will loosely involve some kung fu history mainly around the 1600s.

Gene, perhaps you might know some of this?

I am looking to know some indepth history on the 5 elders of the shaolin temple at that time period. When Ng Mui was there and mastered the plum blossom fist.

How it was burned down, and what stories led after that. I am not trying to trace exact history here I just need some background info for my story I am writing.

Also, for a bonus do you have any idea what china and japan's relationship was at that time? It would be the beging of the Tokugawa period over in japan, which I bleive was right before the Meji era (if memory serves me correct?)

This is just for creative writing so exact history does not matter, I just need the jest of it.

Any info, or links posted will be appreciated.

[GeneChing]

...is not my area of expertise. It's a real tangled mess, to be truthful, if you try to get to the facts. Figures like Gee Sim are very difficult to validate historically. Even the southern temple is hard to prove. Now there are three temples in southern China trying to lay claim to that heritage.

The myths are easier - you might poke around the southern forum. Since they have more stake in the reality of those myths, given that the 5 elders are the founders of their styles, they'd have more to say.

If you want to address this historically, I'll refer you to The Origins of the Tiandihui by Dian Murray. Good luck with that.:cool:

[Gangsterfist]

Thanks gene. Like I said its a creative story I am writing so exact history does not matter. However, I want a good background. Infact I would prefer the myth and legend type stuff. It makes a better story.

Thanks again,
GF

[MasterKiller]

Aren't the Five Elders:

1. Ng Mui
2. Bak Mei
3. Fung Do Tak
4. Miao Hin
5. Gee Sin

?

[GeneChing]

Now, let's take a look at Tiandihui myth (a.k.a Hung Men - yes the same Hung as in Hung gar). Now I'll preface this by saying that there is significant scholarly research on the Hung Men, a lot, like the aforementioned book, is available in English. But martial artists would have to be literate to know this (ouch, was that a snap from the publisher? hell yes!).

The desturction of Southern Shaolin is called the Xi Lu legend in Murray's book - she includes seven version of it. Not one mentioned the five elders you mentioned above (one mentions 18 monks escaping - others mention the 108 monks that were there, or the 128 - get the numerology yet?) One story names the five monks/ancestors"
Wu Zuotian, Fang Huicheng, Zhang Jingzhao, Yang Wensuo, and Lin Dagang
Riddle me that. :eek:

Myth may make an easier story, at least in terms of writing it, but history often makes a better one.;)