The Wind

[magic_dewdrops]

My teacher says that I am slightly more advanced in my skill of punching than others beginning in martial arts, because there is wind behind my punches. When I throw a punch, my target feels a sweep of wind over them. It is from punching hard and then immediatly relaxing. Is he correct? Does the wind behind my punch really bring me to an advantage?

[fa_jing]

Well that's a bit "mystical" way to put it, but I think I know what he's getting at. Many arts train their punches to be able to put out a candle flame from a few inches away or more. It is the wind that your punch creates that puts the candle out.

[No_Know]

Not an advantage because of it. It indicates your ability level. which you teacher is calling passed someone who starts--some skill there.

It seems-ish.

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Well that's a bit "mystical" way to put it, but I think I know what he's getting at. Many arts train their punches to be able to put out a candle flame from a few inches away or more. It is the wind that your punch creates that puts the candle out.
I though that was with palm strikes...

If you cup your hand it sort of makes like a sucshion, right?
Wouldn't that affect anything?

[No_Know]

fa_jing. It might be different winds. Hard and soft punches can extinguish the candle flame. But degrees of hard or soft make different wind. If Higher stronger wind puts it out but so can lesser. Perhaps it is not wind alone if at all that extinguishes the candle.

One called Odin of Wei, cupping the hand or sweeping to make a wind is like cheating. And cheating you do not achieve-ish. If you can do a normal strike and put out the candle flame then perhaps your strike is better. Different punches, finger strikes, palm heel, elbow knee ball of foot straight-on-kick...can extinguish some candle flame.

Also pole slice, or poke.

[Ford Prefect]

I prefer to measure strikes by their effect on sparring partners or heavy bags. Just like when I played baseball, I measured my hitting by... well hitting rather than creating wind with the bat.

[ElPietro]

My "wind" can be deadly on a high protein diet. ;)

[rubthebuddha]

that's what you get for substitooting whey with taco bell.

[No_Know]

A baseball is built differently than a Human being. Hitting a baseball would be different-ish. The baseball is expected in the strikezone. The baseball is not likely to be pitched for you to hit when not on a baseball field.~

When hitting a baseball hopefully you are using a bat. Unless you connect Every time you evaluate your hitting by your misses or swinging at Air. You are improving when you hit more ball than air.

Hitting a heavybag is not the same as hitting a person perhaps. While a person's torso can be more concentrated the ****her one goes from the top that changes on a person, unlike with a heavybag. The heavy bag like the ball is in a zone with little likeliness of being out of that zone. People unlike heavy bags or pithced baseballs do not deliberately nor accidentally deflect your strike.

That you don't see value in it is fine~. Perhaps that is not enough to infer that there is little value there.~

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know
One called Odin of Wei, cupping the hand or sweeping to make a wind is like cheating. And cheating you do not achieve-ish. If you can do a normal strike and put out the candle flame then perhaps your strike is better. Different punches, finger strikes, palm heel, elbow knee ball of foot straight-on-kick...can extinguish some candle flame.

Also pole slice, or poke.
How could a palm strike be cheating?

It's one of the most powerful strikes! :cool:

[Ford Prefect]

Thanks, No know. I'll let my old boxing team in on the candle training method.

[Ironwind]

By wind in your strike it shows that thier is energy beyond the strike. When you strike without energy passing through you all really do is put your fist on your target. The wind indicates that your strike will carry on below the skin. When you strike tenseness should occur only at the open door. The limp limb will move faster through the air and the imediate tenseness will add impact after velocity. The force from them both combined will put the energy of your blow through your opponent. Also aiming beyond the visisble flesh will help with that in a less medaforical way. In striking this is one way of the Ironwind Clan ( a group of martial artist of different arts who train and theorize together on the perfection of martial arts).

[No_Know]

Awesome Though No_Know which method beyond punch at flame level a lit candle. For benefit, when consistant extinguishing of the flame (ten times within five punches each time), increase the distance slightly until same level of constant. When they or whoever can extinguish with the level of constant I mentioned from three feet or so, there should be something more to their punch.

Whether or not you were being sarcastic, besides thinking of it as a joke (funny)


One called Odin of Wei "How could a palm strike be cheating?..."

You mentioned cupping the hand of the palm strike to make suction or wind to extinguish the flame. But if you would not cup your palm when striking a person you are cheating your development at that strike by changing it just to extinguish the flame. As you would strike a person you should strike towards the wick.

Phoenix Eye fist and Dragon head fist are punces that can work with candle practice.

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know
Awesome Though No_Know which method beyond punch at flame level a lit candle. For benefit, when consistant extinguishing of the flame (ten times within five punches each time), increase the distance slightly until same level of constant. When they or whoever can extinguish with the level of constant I mentioned from three feet or so, there should be something more to their punch.

Whether or not you were being sarcastic, besides thinking of it as a joke (funny)


One called Odin of Wei "How could a palm strike be cheating?..."

You mentioned cupping the hand of the palm strike to make suction or wind to extinguish the flame. But if you would not cup your palm when striking a person you are cheating your development at that strike by changing it just to extinguish the flame. As you would strike a person you should strike towards the wick.

Phoenix Eye fist and Dragon head fist are punces that can work with candle practice.
I did it with my palm...whatever. :rolleyes:

[No_Know]

One called Wind of Odin, reaffirms that candle practice can be done with a palm.

How far away was the palm from the wick when you extinguished the flame with your palm. Do you still do that. Have you tried from ****her away? If so, how far?

Good for you. :-)

[MasterKiller]

Cupping the palm is kind of cheating because you push a larger pocket of air forward than you would with a closed fist.

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Cupping the palm is kind of cheating because you push a larger pocket of air forward than you would with a closed fist.
That's the point, bud. :D

[No_Know]

You probabally want the highest score on a test opposed to Knowing the material presented.

The point is to improve You. Not to extinguish a flame. If extinguishing the flame was the point, then you would blow out the candle wick flame.

Extinguishing the flame is merely an indicator about your strike.

Punching the flame seems an exercise for short power. Because the strike is pulled or lock stopped. Perhaps like punching a wall but stopping shy. Or contact at full speed but only the skin, and not feeling the knuckle press to the wall.

Wall~ striking (can also be done with kicks) and candle striking might yield the same development to a point--Control at Will with fullest force, and the comprehension development to keep from touching/hitting anything accidentally~. But the flame flickers an tells if your punch wobbles, how much power there was, and where the power is, in your punch (ahead, during, after) by When the flicker starts and the style of flicker--permutations of flicker.

If I hadn't been pointing something out I might not have isolated the signifigance to candle practice. Realizing that it might be useable as or is a short power exercise And perhaps also a Control at full speed exercise seems good to cataloguing-activity/benefit.

The result noted is not necessarily the point of the exercise. If you were always told the point of doing a thing, you might mess it up because you didn't see what it mattered or how it was good. But if you Knew enough, you wouldn't be looking to learn...one might consider to do other than continuously tell the instructors that they are Wrong.

One might.

Last part not specifically directed to one called Odin of Wei. To whomever it might address.

[Ironwind]

Aren't all the elements included in this excercise or training method.
So far we have flame and Wind.

[Losttrak]

Its all about displacement of air. Palm has more surface area than a fist, so it will more easily blow out a candle if it moves with equal speed. A fist is significantly harded but frequently people flick their wrist at the end which is "cheating". Like Ford says, its all about how hard to hit a solid target. Some people can flick it out fast and displace air but they do not have the follow-thru to penetrate into their target.

[No_Know]

Which element groups?

Sweat could be Water element.
Firm stance could be Wood or Earth element.
Fingers, grip, arms from all the striking to extinguish the flames, like iron to be Metal element.
Whatever air displacement as Air element.
Distance from stopped punch to wick as Void .
Determination to strike with non-flip technique but perfect strike technique could be Fire element.

[Ironwind]

Originally posted by No_Know
Which element groups?

Sweat could be Water element.
Firm stance could be Wood or Earth element.
Fingers, grip, arms from all the striking to extinguish the flames, like iron to be Metal element.
Whatever air displacement as Air element.
Distance from stopped punch to wick as Void .
Determination to strike with non-flip technique but perfect strike technique could be Fire element.

That sounds like what I was thinking earlier today about that.
I was thinking those from CMA but those from ninjitsu would go also.

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know

Last part not specifically directed to one called Odin of Wei. To whomever it might address.
What do you mean by that, bud? :cool:


Originally posted by No_Know
Fingers, grip, arms from all the striking to extinguish the flames, like iron to be Metal element.

If you believed in Chi you would not fully clench your fist. You would block a Chi maderidan if you did that. :D

[No_Know]

Chi can be directed out side of the channels. Fist was mentioned. How tight might not be specific the same for each person. Direct the Chi from your entire fist if that's your preference. striking with a chi exit point might risk damaging that flow point and the channel.

I was mentioning a thought related to a say from you. but it was applicable to more people than you. Yet it might not be advice hat would include you.~


One can believe in a thing and not understand it, comprehend it. I might No_Know anything about chi. One could recognize a thing, yet nothave a name related to that thing.~

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know
Chi can be directed out side of the channels. Fist was mentioned. How tight might not be specific the same for each person. Direct the Chi from your entire fist if that's your preference. striking with a chi exit point might risk damaging that flow point and the channel.

I was mentioning a thought related to a say from you. but it was applicable to more people than you. Yet it might not be advice hat would include you.~


One can believe in a thing and not understand it, comprehend it. I might No_Know anything about chi. One could recognize a thing, yet nothave a name related to that thing.~
I thank you for your advice.

I don't really try to clentch my fist (though it canbe hard to do). You can still get a pretty hard fist without clentching it all the way.

Also since were on Chi, you would want to do a circle motion. Stopping the punch would force the Chi back into you causing internal problems in the future, that is what my Sifu told me.

I will admit that my understanding of Chi isn't the greatest but I'm getting there...the best I can.

WATCH OUT FOR THE MIRRORS!!!! :p :cool:

[No_Know]

I prefer an unclenched fist--it's a Squirrel thing you might not understand :~>

I do not want to figure the logic of it. It seems cute and is likeable, which is enough for what I am doing--Being

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know
I prefer an unclenched fist--it's a Squirrel thing you might not understand :~>

I do not want to figure the logic of it. It seems cute and is likeable, which is enough for what I am doing--Being
Ooook?

You do know about mirrors...right? :eek:

[No_Know]

I might No_Know when you are saying, watch out for mirrors

How you mean people in glass houses should not throw stones or look on myself what I am saying to others. I No_Know your mirrors reference(s).

[Odin of Wei]

Originally posted by No_Know
I might No_Know when you are saying, watch out for mirrors

How you mean people in glass houses should not throw stones or look on myself what I am saying to others. I No_Know your mirrors reference(s).

heh, and here you got me thinking that your knew alot about chi...

Your chi is reflected back to you in the mirror, making it negitive Chi.
It's good to practice with but as you advance in the ranks you should not use it.

At my school we took out half of our mirror.
Also it's unnatural to look at yourself in the mirror. You won't have a mirror while fighting so it's good to get a feeling of your stance, punching, etc. without the good, ol' mirror.

[No_Know]

Chi in the mirror comes back negative chi?

Light in the mirror does not comeback negative light. laser in the mirror does not comeback negative laser, heat in the mirror does not come back negative heat; fire in the mirror does not come back water...


I hopefully do not claim to know Chi...I No_Know.


When there is not someone around to tell you how you could improve your posture, stance, punch... the mirror can help inform you. But you should use feel more than mirror, you do not get to look while fighting nor forming. With that stop looking in the mirror, do the form (when you look you change what you are doing or factors). But it can still help some people somewhat, in general~.

[Tak]

It seems to me that a squirrel would put out a candle by tipping it over. Or ignore the candle altogether.

[rubthebuddha]

never knew a flame that deserved to be struck with a palm in the first place.

[No_Know]

rubthebuddha, perhaps you don't know enough flames.

Tak, a squirrel might put out a candle flame by causing galactic intervention, linking black holes to tip the solar system gravitational balance to seismicly channel the ********y frequency. But I'm Ernie Moore Jr. too and can only aspire to that of Squirrel :~>

[rubthebuddha]

if you're talking calgary flames, they should be hit with a stick, not a palm strike.

if you're talking flamers, sure, i've known a few i'd like to smack, but it had nothing to do with their flaming personality. they were just ****s.

[Tak]

Hehe, we showed the calgary flames what was what this year.

YEAH, *****ES!