Fitness........

[harry_the_monk]

Hi there, I am really new to Wing Chun practising(one month.), but have been what I should really describe as 'arm-chair' in regards to MA as I have always read (and practised in my own buffoonery).
I was wondering, I have noticed that a lot of guys at some of the classes I visited while finding a kwoon looked severely out of shape.(not the one I am at now however)
Can/should I be practising a lot of personal cardio work(non-MA..i.e. running[although some may profess this to be a form of MA :)], cycling, swimming, etc.,)
Will this throw me off the path to which I am trying to reach through wing chun?(i.e. form, internal power, etc.) or should it be encouraged, or can anyone suggest some different cardio work which may assist my Wing Chun?
Thanks in advance :D

[Anarcho]

I don't think it will hurt and it can definitely help. I don't know, maybe if you got really confused and started trying to swim along the floor of the kwoon instead of using the correct footwork, or something. ;) You can do Wing Chun related cardio stuff by just doing drills like I assume you do in your warm up, or getting a heavy bag or whatever...

Soup is good food.

[Martial Joe]

There is nothing wrong with it...
...work out all you want,it wont hurt your wing chun.

[Martial Joe]

And remember,dont think muscle strength,dont even try and do the movements in wing chun,just stay relaxed and do them.

[[Censored]]

A "real fight" does not require much endurance, as it lasts less then a minute. I think some cardio work is a good thing, but don't expect it to improve your WC.

[GLW]

A real fight...what is that...?

If you are talking ONLY self defence, then those are short...provided the other guy is not up to your level.

If you are talking street....what about after you finish and have to run away...to keep from being arrested in a club...or from the other guy's friends. Stamina doesn't hurt there.

And...the big thing...In a REAL fight, regardless of what happens, you have to be able to take the physical punishment. Each time you take a body blow, you lose a bit of your wind. How much of your wind you lose depends on how you train to take punishment...the amount can be quite small or quite large. Obviously you want to have it be as small as possible.

Being in good shape and having good cardio endurance, speed, strength, and bravery are prerequisites for fighting. Out of shape fighters only win if they can connect and do it before they tire. Also, if they tire right after winning but have nothing left to leave...well jail cells or getting the sh*t kicked out of you by the other guys friends is a very possible scenario.

[harry_the_monk]

Thanks, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to stop the other stuff just to concentrate primarily on my WC, although the WC is taking up a lot more of my time now....
Thanks as well for the info on relaxing, and practising the drills. Also the running stuff, but hopefully I won't get into a fight as I'm trying to become a buddhist as well....
Any other thoughts on the subject still welcome though... :D
Peace...

[Sharky]

is soup actually food?

My anus is superior™

[Anarcho]

It's not only food, it's good food, as I think my signature will be happy to agree. What do you think, signature?

Soup is good food.

[jameswebsteruk]

Wong Shun Leung once tried doing pressups for a while, then complained that they slowed him down. Upper body fitness is not that important, other than the need to have a sound structure.

However, cardio workouts can only help, and anything that strengthens the legs or waist is a definite plus. Remember that punching power comes from the floor, via the biggest muscles in the body, the legs!

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Fitness is an assett in any endeavor. However, if you want to improve your Wing Chun the best way is to practice Wing Chun :)

A real fight should only last a very short time. However, ;) a person who is fit will find that their coordination and reflexes will be better than someone who is less fit.

The key to any undertaking is to achieve balance. Do not neglect your Wing Chun training but incorporate other forms of exercies, if that is what you want. Set goals and design a method which allows you to achieve them "REALISTICALLY" :p

Cardio work is fine. But, remember something; if you train to run for long distances without incorporating sprints you will actually lose speed and become more plodding. Again, balance.

For me, I am fat and lazy :p I would concentrate on leg work and some endurance/cardio. Aside from that plenty of Wing Chun; Stance work, punching etc. If I have time and the inclination and energy, which is doubtful :) I would include some form of weight training. But, the other REALLY IMPORTANT thing to work out is your waist and stomach. This is the key to your power. With a well conditioned mid-section you will find yourself to have an advantage.

Well, I'm done ranting got to get another doughnut :p

Peace,

Dave

[harry_the_monk]

Thanks for all the new stuff, also the different view on working my stomach/waist, should I be doing lots of crunches and stuff then? ...
This may sound really stoopid, but on a Jet Lee film(I think it was shaolin kids part 2 or something)they all hung upside down and did sit-up type things, just fantasy, or worth a try? :)
Peace...

[Gluteus Maximus]

Hi Harry,

I haven't seen that movie but I've done hanging leg raises upright, not upside down. Though both ways would work, the upside down method would probably look better in a movie.

To strengthen your midsection, a variety of crunches works well. I do 150 crunches twice a week - standard crunches, crossover crunches, oblique crunches and seated leg raises, all of which target different parts of the midsection.

Even though the abdominal muscle is a single muscle, different exercises target different parts of the muscle. Basically, when you bend your upper body towards your lower body, it exercises the upper abdominals, and when you move your legs towards your upper body, it exercises the lower abdominals. Twisting type movements and sideways bends exercise the internal and external obliques (muscles on the sides of your lower ribs).

Perform both the concentric and eccentric phases of the exercise slowly.

If your neck gets sore from doing crunches, keep it tilted back more, instead of bending it forward. Don't lock your fingers behind your head - keep them beside your head or your arms crossed over your chest.

I also do weights, and get more indirect midsection strenghthening through this, such as deadlifts (lower back), and one-arm rows (abdominals).

Cheers,
Max

[popsider]

Is there any scientific basis for saying jogging will make you slower. After all your legs are still moving faster than if you were walking. I can accept it is not the best way to make you faster - but does it actually make you slower.

If it does make you slower then does doing multiple chain punches make you punch slower. You can't possibly do several hundred punches at full speed however good you are - in the same way that even a professional sprinter can't go flat out over 1000 metres there is bound to be a fall off in pace. So are people whose punching practice is primarily done in this way actually slowing themselves down. Would we be better sticking to shorter sets of absolute maximum intensity. You may all do this already - but I have a regular set of punches - building up from chain punching x200, 20Xsingles, 20Xdoubles, trebles etc on up to 9s which pretty much exhausts my arms. Although I do not pace myself and try to go relaxed but fast inevitably the last punches are rather slower than the first.

As far as crunches/sit ups go, the principles are the same as for any other muscle. But be careful because if you concentrate on the abdominals then you will create an imbalance with the muscles in the back. I like to use a 45degree inclined bench for sit ups - not sure if that is a good thing or not so I'd welcome any advice on that

[Dragonhand]

Why did Bruce Lee work out so much? Working out is NOT a waste of time.Old out of shape lions end up as other lions food.

[Sharky]

get a punch bag, and practice your wingchun non stop on that. I think every wc student would benifit by doing this 100%. I can't do it tho :/

**** wooden beams :/

Edd

My anus is superior™

[GLW]

Good statement, Dragonhand....:)

Keep in mind that you have Fast Twitch and Slow Twitch muscles. Each person has a different ratio. One is for speed movements. They fire fast but tire quickly. The other is for endurance. They fire slower but don't tire for a long time.

A long distance runner has more slow twitch than fast and a fast boxer or a 50 meter runner have more fast twitch.

The key is you have to build up both. For martial arts, the first one is fast twitch. You have to hit or block fast and be first. BUT...you have to be able to work with depleted oxygen and fatigue as well ...so you have to have slow twitch. The optimum is to work both to their highest level.

This means you have to work speed drills and endurance and this is NOT the work of lazy people. This is WHY Bruce Lee was a workout fanatic (that and the fact that he was known to be a bit vain about his physique).

[harry_the_monk]

Ok, some good stuff again...
Sharkey, I have same problem, can't hang a bag off anything, not even got beams, I only live in a crummy bed-sit(London living eh??.)Can't see it holding back my WC though cos I thought they were more crowded in Hong-Kong...so, how do they do it there???(i.e. find places to train, hang bags etc.,obviously not the sil lim tao, cos I try doing that in my shower cubicle :D )..any HK residents past/present, like to enlighten me???

Also, with the comment on the power coming from your legs, I think I am beginning to grasp the rooting idea, any views on doing heavy squats,ham-string curls,or other leg building anaerobic exercise???
Or is just practising kicks and stance enough???
Speed, or technique for which twitch muscles??

Peace...

[Sharky]

ok dude cos u live in london u can goto meijin - it's in sheperds bush on "141 Goldhawk Road" open 9:30-5 tuesday - Sat and u can get either a makiwara, or a wing chun wall bag that you fill with dried peas - you get like three of them for 15 quid (u can only get 1 if you want) and so you can practice all sorts of different strikes. You hang these from your wall. I'm gonna go down that shop, not this saturday, maybe the next and see what i can find.

Their website is usually www.meijin.co.uk (http://www.meijin.co.uk) but it's down cuz they is addin e-commerse to it or sumfink. Anyways dude good luck to you!

If you wanna mail order - check my post on teh general forum about "homemade wall pads" or something - can't remember the name ;)

Edd

My anus is superior™

[This message was edited by Sharky on 06-16-01 at 08:16 AM.]

[harry_the_monk]

Cool, thats the bags sorted, not too far from me either ;)
Just hope my walls/neighbours are strong enough to handle me smacking away at those bags...lol

Anyone got anything on the leg work-outs?

Peace...