tai yim coup attempt?

[monkeyboxing]

I know this is VERY old news, but I just found out about and I am curious about it abecause my sifu is sifu Tai Yim. In these two links : www.straightsword.com/Letters_Memos_Anthony_Goh/teamtrialmemo.htm , www.straightsword.com/Letters_Memos_Anthony_Goh/3-30_memo.html Tai yim is accused of conspiring with Jeff Bolt and attempting a "coup" and harassing PAWF members and making false claims. So... does anyone have a good explanation for these letters, or are Anthony Goh's claims really true?

[monkeyboxing]

Anyone?

[ShaolinTiger00]

lol @ the USAWKF..

So much potential.. but they are "hopelessly chinese" in their politics & organizational skills. (no wonder communism works so well for them..)

[ShaolinTiger00]

and lol @ this.

[QUOTE]E. Mike Barry has commented that the Bolt group's coup attempt in Hong Kong were "hateful acts of trickery and deceit." During his recent conversation with me in February 2001 he told me that he knew I was right and informed me that he does not want to be involved in any organizations, including USAWKF. He wrote to me on February 23rd, 2001 stating that he is no longer a member of the Board.

QUOTE]

The truth (told to me by Mike Barry, my sifu) He was so sick of ALL the bull**** that he didn't want to be a part of any of it anymore! not goh, not bolt, not the usawkf,- it's all a cluster****! that was ruining US sanshou events.

and so he resigned.

[No_Know]

Did not look involved. Looked like name was used without permission perhaps. That seems more what is said. At least in the first link.


You said it in your first entry at this thread (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=444614#post444614) one called monkeyboxing

[GLW]

The StraightSword.Com link is run by one of Anthony Goh's students.

It is, to say the least, biased.

This IS all old news.

Basically, in a nutshell, from the beginning, there were problems with the USAWKF.

There were a lot of people at the beginning.

Some were not happy with Goh being "elected" as the president from the start.

The USAWKF Bylaws were flawed from the get go. There is NO accountability of the organization to the members, no provision for true elections for the head positions, and no way spelled out to remove a problematic person from a position of authority.

These flaws were pointed out in the beginning (I know this because I pointed them out to several of the board members at that time).

As the organization went on, several people quit due to problems with Anthony Goh.

In 1993, right after the forming of the organization (essentially it was a merger of the USCMAC and NACMAF...the rules and sturcture came from the USCMAC - the control was given to Goh so it became heavy handed like NACMAF), anyway - with NO money, no fund raisers, no real income stream, and no corporate or other types of financial backers, Goh signed up to host the 1995 IWuF world competition. This WAS the first time this event had been held outside of China...but it was too soon.

The result of the event was that, according to Goh, the USAWKF was $300,000 in debt. However, I have never been able to find minutes of any meeting where the board chose to take on this financial obligation...and Goh DID form a separate company to handle the event. One has to wonder if the USAWKF would have gotten the proceeds had the event been a money maker or if it was only poised to get the debts...

After this, things deteriorated. No money, no attempts to grow the regions, politics. There was a big problem between Goh and Pat Rice. Goh tried to remove her from a position in a back door manner in 1999.

There was a position on an IWuF committee (Technical Committee) that Pat Rice was on. She was due to step down and be replaced. The board was to hold nominations and vote on her replacement. However, Goh decided he wanted to appoint Lu Xiaolin ot the position. Now, there WAS opposition to this. But...the big issue was that the position required someone with US citizenship...and Lu Xiaolin had not yet gotten her citizenship...and was therefore inelegible anyway.

Goh sent the paperwork as well as a call for a vote of No Confidence on IWuF leader, Li Jie, in to the IWuF and then left the country to go to Hong Kong for the 1999 World Games. Those already in Hong Kong (Nick Gracenin for one) were blindsided with both of these things.

Jeff Bolt was in contact with the other board members and was persuaded to have a vote of no confidence on Anthony Goh.

The vote was at that time unanimous.

However, Mike Barry rescinded his vote. Shawn Liu NEVER would submit his and waffled back and forth. Jimmy Wong and Liu Yu resigned after the vote in anger with Anthony Goh.

Bolt persuaded Wong and Liu to stay...but since they voted against Goh, Goh maintained that they were off the board. He also maintained that the vote was illegal anyway.

This went on for a while.

In effect, you had the board vs. Goh. The only people on the board NOT against Goh were:

Mike Barry - tried to be neutral but did eventually vote against Goh.
Shawn Liu - voted both ways...depending on who you talked to and what time of day.
James Yu - no martial background but was on the board because he loaned Anthony Goh $40,000...and probably did not vote against Goh because he hoped to get his money back sometime.

This stalemate went on for most of 2000 and part of 2001.

By the end of 2000, only Yu and Shawn Liu were voting for Goh. There were 6 board members against him, 2 for ...and then Goh....6 out 9 against Goh...but the rules said a 2/3 majority - one short...even though technically, a good set of bylaws would have invalidated Goh's vote since it was against him....and that would have meant 6 out of 8 and owuld have been enough.

In 2001, there was the Team Trials. Goh had his, the board theirs. They tried to get the IWuF to intercede...to no avail.

They then tried to get an injunction. However, the judge said the burden of proof was "irreparable harm" to the organization...and was not met...but said that they should take it to civil court.

The cost for Civil court would have been in excess of $30,000 - for an organization with no assets, bad blood, and debt....

The board chose to go no further.

Goh, then used this to declare that what they had done was illegal, branded it a coup attempt, and went on with his version of the story.

The harm to CMA organizations in the US has been immense.

The USAWKF is still there...but nothing much has changed.

Now you have the USWU and a couple of other groups...

It is a mess...and no one is really happy with any of it...

[lkfmdc]

all politics suck, especially Chinese politics, but you know what? when it comes to the USAWKF thing, I cringe whenever I see the "versions" floating around...

Is Goh a twit? YES. Did he f up a lot? YES. Is he power mad? Probably....

But I was there for the birth of this whole mess, I sat in meetings back then, some in closed door back rooms, let's just say nothing is as clear as EITHER camp wants the GP to believe

[GLW]

No doubt about the murkiness of things.

The Sanshou crowd ALWAYS got the short end of the stick.

That came from the very beginning. The first Sanshou team that the USAWKF sent to China had a heck of a time just getting made...then forget about any sponsorship or training. It was a tribute to the folks like Jason Yee that they did not get their rears handed to them on a platter.

There were a lot of motives attributed to a lot of people. Some of the motives were unfortunately true. Some were not.

For example, Jeff Bolt wanting to be in charge... If that were true, he would have been the head from the beginning. He didn't want to do that job because he didn't have the time, staff, or the money to do it.

Almost all of the board members were totally unable to do anything as sane as compromise. The only one I can say ever really did was Bolt. From knowing him for a LONG time, I can say that he rarely does things in a head on way. if there is opposition, he may eventually get what he wants...but there is a lot of discussion along the way ...and compromises.

As for the others...I don't know Mike barry that well...but the rest - there were almost always OTHER concerns going on.

The whole thing that was supposed to make the USAWKF work was the diversity and the many voices. That pretty much failed.

From personal experience, I can say that nothing happened unless it was done from Baltimore. I know that a number of folks tried to offer help...from all over the country...but ultimately gave up due to the attitude that came down from there.

Tai Yim is a good target for the Goh camp. There has been bad blood between goh and Tai Yim since they disagreed...with Lu one of the other problem folks in the middle.

In reality, after Tai Yim left the USAWKF, even afterwards, he was such a minor player that to put him at the head of a "coup" makes no sense at all.

All in all, I am glad that the Sanshou folks went their own way. They at least have a chance of brokering their own deal for international events.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The Sanshou crowd ALWAYS got the short end of the stick.

Shawn Liu should carry some of this responsibility. I like him, but he did so many goofy screwed up things that seemed to knock us back 2 steps for every footstep we took forward.

[lkfmdc]

I am tempted to get into some of the details, but before I jump, I;m gonna think about it.....

[ShaolinTiger00]

don't bother David.

all looking backwards now.

[monkeyboxing]

What exactly was the disagreement between Tai Yim and Goh? And what role, however minor, did Yim play in the "coup attempt"? Thanks

[monkeyboxing]

Originally posted by No_Know
Did not look involved. Looked like name was used without permission perhaps. That seems more what is said. At least in the first link.


You said it in your first entry at this thread (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=444614#post444614) one called monkeyboxing

If I believed every word I read, I wouldn't be questioning it now would I?

[GLW]

Without speaking too much out of turn..

Tai Yim and Anthony goh were essentially blood brothers.

Tai Yim has always been very protective of what he teaches and who is authorized to teach what they learned from him.

The crux of the matter had to do with ex-students not just doing what their new teacher was teaching but also teaching Tai Yim's stuff without authorization...and then Goh siding against Tai Yim or saying nothing...which to Tai Yim would have been the same thing.