Let's put this to rest: CLF = Choy Ga + Lee Ga?

[Fu-Pow]

I was posting on another thread but I thought this deserved it's own topic:

What we still don't know is, is CLF, Choy Ga +Lee Ga?

As in 2 of the 5 famous Southern Kung Fu families?

I saw a demonstration of Lee Ga in New York (not sure if it was Lee Ga as in one of the 5 families). It had some of the same elements of CLF but it was also very different. Definitely much shorter and more like SPM in its expression of Jing.

I'd be very curious to see clear examples of Choy Ga and Lee Ga that represent these 2 famous kung fu styles.

If we could see them then we could compare to our CLF and know with relative certainty whether these have any relation to our style. But I'm not sure if clear examples exist. With the popularity of other Southern styles perhaps these styles are extinct or near extinction. ( BTW I recently saw a VCD for sale of Choy Ga on a website, I'll see if I can post a link.)


My inkling is that they don't have any relation.

The Choy in Choy Lee Fut most likely comes from Choy Fook who was a monk/hermit who supposedly had ties to the Northern Shaolin Temple.

This explains why CLF is so different from other Southern styles. It borrows many of the attributes of both Northern long fist and Southern short hand techniques.

But what about Lee Ga? Is this famous Lee Ga? Or is it another style altogether?

[CLFNole]

Lay Gar (5 southern family styles - hung, lau, choy, lay & mok) was founded by Lay Yau San. I have also read another name, however Lay Yau San is shown more often. Much of CLF's footwork/legwork is linked with Lay Gar from what I was taught.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

So it is the same Lay Yau San as the Lay Yau San of CLF?

Ok...cool.

:D

[Ben Gash]

Yeah, The Li Yau San who taught Chan Heung was the founder of Li Gar. The Choy though is in reference to Choy Fook, not Choy Gar Kuen.
To muddy the waters and confuse comparisons, there are two distinct versions of Li Gar, the Shaolin version and a Hakka version which has been absorbed into some Bak Mei lineages.

[Sho]

How is the Lay Gar system practiced in the west? I don't seem to find very many comprehensible websites on the system itself.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

hey fu-pow, please please try to dig up that choy ga vcd link....

please :)

[Fu-Pow]

Well I don't think it was a link. I think I saw it at the bookstore at Uwajimaya (a local Asian grocery store). I'm going down to Chinatown to train today so I'll stop by and see if they have it.

I'll try to find it on-line though.

[Fu-Pow]

SOUTHERN KUNG FU:
FIVE FIGHTING FAMILIES

Originally, there were five principle Southern kung fu systems. They were designated by the word gar following the founder's name. Gar means family and in this case stands for gung fu families.

The five family systems were originated strictly as fighting arts, used to battle the Ching dynasty rulers. Unlike Northern systems, which were older and had evolved during peaceful times when students could study their martial arts for years before reaching higher levels, the masters of the Southern systems had to hurry their training and quickly teach their students how to fight. As a result, hard power was taught first, followed by internal training. Stances were wider and lower, and Southern footwork less active than Northern, relying more on the practitioner's strength for defence. The families were:

HUN GAR – Founded by Hung Hei Gung, it uses external strength and dynamic tension exercises and is excellent for developing muscles and strong low stances.
LAU GAR – Founded by Lau Soam Ngan, it is a middle length hand system, not often taught in present times.
CHOY GAR- No relation to Choy-li-fut, the system was founded by Choy Gau Yee and is a long –arm style.
LI GAR- Founded by Li Yao San (also one of Choy-li-fut's originators), this seldom-taught system features a strong medium-range fist.
MOK GAR – Founded by Mok Ching Giu, who was famous in Canton for his powerful kicks, this system places emphasis on short-hand techniques and strong kicks.
With the exception of hung-gar, the Southern family styles are rarely seen today in their original forms. Most of the popular Southern systems, including choy-li-fut, wing chun and white crane, had their roots in the Shaolin temple martial system, or in other Northern styles. When escaping revolutionaries transplanted these arts to Southern China, they adopted many of the distinguishing characteristics of the native styles. The combination of Northern and Southern elements make these kung fu systems particularly versatile and effective self-defence systems.

http://www.shaolin-society.co.uk/History_of_Gung-Fu/history_of_gung-fu.php

[CLFNole]

That stuff was plagerized right out of the "Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles".

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

It's interesting that Choy Ga and Choy Li Fut are both long arm styles and yet supposedly have no connection. Hmmmmmm.......

[CLFNole]

Bak Hok, Jow Gar, Hung Gar, Hung Fut & Lama are long-arm styles as well.

So what if there is a Choy in both Choy Gar & Choy Lay Fut, people can have the same last name with no relation.

There were more than 5 family styles in southern China. Hung, Lau, Choy, Lay & Mok were the most well known.

Peace.