Nick Scrima`s 2004 Tournament [Archive]

Oso

05-07-2004, 07:44 PM

nice avatar, Green_Tea.

IMHO, people will tell you about being nervous and possible ways to shake the jitters but it's tough to do so. You will be nervous and it will affect your performance. Irrelevant of how you do you will know if competing ''does it'' for you. If you get jacked enough by competition then you will do it again and only by competing on a regular basis will you get used to the nervousness and be able to work with it.

Good luck and maybe we'll see ya there.

For me, I listen to Green Day's "Dookie" and pace a lot. :)

Green_Tea

05-07-2004, 08:04 PM

Thanks for the words. Hmmm, maybe if I can get a song that I really like stuck in my head it might calm me down... At first I dind't want to compete because I was afraid it would make me ****y (regardless of how good I was) and make me loose sight of why I did kung fu in the first place. But I guess we'll see. I'm not expecting to win anything, I just figure all this effort my sifus and sihings are putting into really teaching me Little Open Gate will benefit me in other ways.

Green_Tea

05-07-2004, 08:04 PM

Oh hah hah, I guess they thought I was cursing and gave me astricks (sp?) instead. I said I didn't want to become arogant.

Oso

05-07-2004, 08:08 PM

sometimes the editor is a bit indiscriminate.;)

competition teaches you to perform under pressure. unless you go out and try to get into fights (not recommended) it may be the most high pressure situation you will be forced to use your skills in.

Tainan Mantis

05-07-2004, 11:44 PM

Green Tea,
Good luck on your first Tourny.
The scary part is performing and being judged by strangers.
You probably know that performing in front of strangers often will erase this fear.
One of my brothers, John Scolaro, would do his sets in public, like in front of a restaurant where people were watching.
He would do this with no provocation and we all felt it was somewhat odd.
But he had no inhibition and so when he went to tournaments he walked on stage like he owned the place.

One of his first shows was in front of about 300 spectators. He forgot the form in the middle and from there made up a form on the spot.

I think that was becasue he was often performing in front of people so he didn't feel too nervous that he couldn't improvise.
Though he was a little nervous to forget the form.

Yushan 18 elders and crew.
What is wrong with going incognito.
Then change T-shirts after you get some trofies?

Oso

05-08-2004, 05:12 AM

won't yu shan, 18elders and pong lai be known already?

18elders

05-08-2004, 09:46 AM

good luck-don't get discouraged if you don't win. the problem with tournaments is not all judges are familiar with your material or sometimes i think they don't have a clue about anything.
Alot of judges score high on the flashy crap, and acrobatic stuff. I look at the martial aspect of it. if you have no power or jing you lose points on my scoring. Do your form at a nice speed, put some power and spirit in your form, hold some good stances for a split second, do your form like your kicking someone's butt. Alot of Wler's do well in tournaments but i think it is just a bunch of flash with no martial substance.
Little open gate is nice, do good low stances and put spirit into it.

My shrfu(american but lived in taiwan for 10 years and speaks chinese like we was born chinese), he was judging a tournament here once and he scored the guy low. The performer's teacher(chinese) started complaining to another student (speaking chinese) thinking my teacher didn't understand him. My shrfu got up and went over to him and told him in chinese he scored him low because there was no spirit just a bunch of flashy crap. The other guy was shocked because he didn't think my shrfu understood him.
Unfortunately alot of flashy crap wins.

Good luck anyways, practise your form facing different directions in your school and also diagonally so you don't get stuck in a different environment.

Tainan-at chinese new year, shrfu told me to go perform leepi, i had just finished learning it, i started it but was so used to bung bu that i went into it, then i did a section of 18 elders and then ended with the last road of ba bu lien huan. Needless to say shrfu had a good laugh!! He said i told you to do leepi, not everything!!!!

yu shan

05-08-2004, 10:15 AM

My personal objective behind supporting this Martial Arts venue is "fellowship", and "learn kungfu". Hopefully some smoothing of a strained relationship between two groups can be met, and let by gones be by gones. Also, the opportunity to meet and train with these Mantis Greats is an advantage. Knowing my Shifu, he will also tell me to compete. At my age, I have nothing to prove. Competition bores me, and I would be perfectly happy to settle with learning and teaching.

TM, Flem

Wasn`t there a story about John and Leroy busting out Wah Lum`s two-man form outside a movie theater following some fake verbal altercation? I could see it...

Tainan Mantis

05-08-2004, 09:18 PM

I have not heard the fake fight story.
But I can see those two doing those kind of shenanigans.

Yushan,
We sound about the same on learning and competition.

18 Elders,
Sounds like you are ready to create your own form.
I remmeber John created his own form.
It was every WL form he knew strung together without stopping.
I was flabbergasted.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-09-2004, 07:12 AM

Unfortunately 18elders's asessment is about right. Seen any Karate tournaments lately? Never saw flash like that when I was in Karate. I blame the judges for that trend. Competitors will do whatever will get the judges attention and score points. Look what TKD sparring turned into (tag, your it). Look at modern Wu Shu. I would expect the general public to be astounded by the flash but not the judges.

I also think that subconsciously some judges tend to 'run with the pack' and try to be consistant with scoring. I know I feel funny when the score I give is way out of line with the others. And that happens a lot because I don't seem to see things like everyone else.

In defense of some of the flashy moves I have to say that when judging you have to consider the difficulty of the moves. Performing a form at a competition is more than just showing you know fighting moves. You're also showcasing your physical abilities, i.e. speed, balance, co-ordination etc. When judging you have to strike a balance and view the performance from different angles.

Maybe there needs to be a few special skills divisions at tournaments. Something like power generation. Use a force meter to register striking power. Divide by weight class since larger, heavier people will naturally hit harder. At the Wah Lum tournaments we have a horse stance competition to see who can last the longest in a low horse.

Another option could be to get a little more detailed in scoring and tracking of scores. Rather than scribbling on scraps of paper have a pre-printed form. Score different aspects separately then total for a final score. Competitors can see the score sheets and see how well they did in different categories like speed, power, balance. It put's more work in the judges and tourney holders hands but competitors get some really useful feedback. Give them the score sheets when done if they want.

Ronin BaBu

05-09-2004, 04:09 PM

I'm planning on going with my kung fu brother as 8 step representatives. I think it would be great if all of us going could get together down there and show some mantis stuff.

I almost got into trouble at my last tournement because i added some flips into one of our forms. My one sifu scowled at it because he doesn't like things done just for flash.. but i supposed it was ok because if we were doing 'true' martial arts i don't suppose we'd be at a tournement at all now would we?

Oso

05-09-2004, 04:26 PM

i added some flips into one of our forms

LOL !

I'd be happy to just do a flip, much less as part of a form.

...instead...I just flip out and stuff frisbee's in people's mouths to kill them. ;)

Green_Tea

05-09-2004, 06:54 PM

Thank you everyone that wished me luck and gave me advice. Practing in front of people sounds good, I thought I'd start by doing the moves in front of friends. This weekend was my birthday so I went to my grandparent's for a family bbq. I was practicing the moves in their big open yard. Felt so different on uneven grass and barefoot (and in a swimsuit *lol*). I also bought my uniform for the tournament. It's really pretty (but hot). So now I'm getting less nervous and more excited. That'll probably change :).

During the party, I also saw my cousin, who used to train hardcore in Tae Kwon Do. He was telling me that he absolutely loved tournaments. He loved seeing all the out of town people, he loved trying to guess if regular competitors would pull out "signature moves" to win. The way he talked it made me excited too!

He was also telling me whenever he'd compete in tournaments with all martial arts that the Tae Kwon Do students never had much of a chance winning in the forms competitions when they were up against the Kung Fu students. He said that Tae Kwon Do forms are not as beautiful as Kung Fu forms. And then he started to tell me how impressive and beautiful Kung Fu forms were.

I guess I'm too new to things to think much about it. I knew wushu looked very beautiful, but I never knew other martial artists found Kung Fu forms so beautifully done :). Who knows, perhaps this can help me. I took dance for about five years. I always assumed it somehow made learning kung fu more of a challange for me.

Oso

05-09-2004, 07:00 PM

http://www.kungfuchampionship.com/Bio_DChin.htm

hey, just saw this, I met Master Chin back in March at the tourney here in NC. He was very funny to talk with and very approachable. It will be some good fighting if any of his students compete.

yu shan

05-09-2004, 08:10 PM

Oso

You were suppose to fight against a Hop Gar practitioner awhile back, was this one of Master Chin`s students? Will you compete at the Championships in Orlando?

Ronin BaBu

A major part of my attending is to meet as many people as possible, hopefully many KFM`mrs. I agree with you, it would be great to get together and share.

Green_Tea

Good luck with your form. I always liked LOG, it`s one of those basic forms that just feels good. Always had a question about the three cont. rolling backfists, and the application to this. I have a nice app. for one... but not three! I think it was cool of your cousin to give kudos to CMA. This is kind of unheard of, usually TKD folks scarf at us and we make fun of them. Anyway hope to meet up with you in O`town, BTW your art is awesome!

Oso

05-10-2004, 03:35 AM

yu shan: Yes, it was. But, he has a pro contract now that forbids him from fighting amature. :eek: Which pretty much means I was happy to not have to fight him. He, brought 2 of his students to fight the lei tai. I've got them on the same tape as my fight which you saw I think.

I was gonna fight the lei tai again in mid June here in Charlotte but finances may prevent me from doing both. If I have to pick, I'll pick Orlando since pong lai is going to be in da hizzouse.;) And of course for the puerto rican food !

Didn't you say you knew somebody in Nashville that was willing to spar full on?

Green_Tea

05-10-2004, 04:25 AM

yu shan:

Yeah, I heard we're "not supposed to" like TKD ;). I guess because I'm family my cousin forgives me ;). I will say it seems like all the people in my school with the most beautiful kicks end up telling me they started out with many years in TKD. When I was learning my 8 basic kicks my sihing was this tall, lanky guy with TKD experience and it always frustrated me that I couldn't do kicks as nicely (probably also had something to do with my lack of experience ;)). But I think the main problem was being 5'5 and stocky :/. I should probably watch one of my sifus whose even shorter than me! :) :p

:o <- I know this is supposed to be the "Embarressed guy" but to me he looks like he's sighing and saying, "Ah well" heh heh.

Tak

05-10-2004, 11:40 AM

I'll see you all there!

AFAIK, the reason for the switch from Tampa to Orlando was twofold: the availability of better facilities, and more attractions for visiting competitors, spectators, and their families.

Frogman

05-10-2004, 01:40 PM

I am certainly looking forward to July and am sure all will enjoy. I personally feel that I do not have the body for flash but I will do my best to look as smooth as possible, with lots of power. Acrobatics is not practical in a fight IMO as a flip takes to long and you have to be really good to make it useful. I plan to do my form with the in your face moving forward. With my Sifu’s help I have a straight forward smack down form that I simply enjoy doing. If I score low I will be disappointed but my intention is to get the most out of the training that goes into the preparation. The amount of time and effort put in just for a 60 second form sequence is the true benefit. The second thing will be to meet some of you. I have talked with many of you of the last few years but have yet to meet most. I consider myself bipartisan and hope that I can get to know some of you on more personal not so much I train here you train there level. Good luck to all.

Tommy
RibHit
:cool:

yu shan

05-10-2004, 08:04 PM

Well said Frogman, flips and yelling don`t do it for me. The power you mentioned, if I can only see people using more of the Fa-jing energy. This" in your face" statement reminded me of something Master Ilya Profatilov told me. The Praying Mantis has a spirit like no other, FEARLESS!

"A man was napping by a road, he noticed a Mantis down in the worn groove made by the passing of wagons. The Mantis was facing towards the oncoming carts with claws outstretched.The man saw an approaching wagon and jumped to save the Mantis from doom. The Mantis quickly returned to his spot in the road, with claws held defiantly upwards toward another cart coming his way. The Mantis attacked at the giant wheel of the cart, and hopped out of harms way"

Frogman

05-11-2004, 04:25 AM

Yu shan,
That’s a great story, the mantis spirit is without a doubt more then just legend. I once found a mantis sitting on a truck tire and as I approached the little guy turned and squared off to me. I had to laugh to myself but I could see that this bug was serious… If he could speak he probably would have said, “You want a piece of me!!, Ya like that, come on!!”
I try to use this intensity in my forms and workouts. Most likely your not going to see me doing a lot of jumping “Frogman” is just a screen name. You will hear me though. My voice carries well and I pull it from deep using it to emphasize my energy. Not to be confused with yelling.
Are there any plans for a KFO gathering? If Kung Fu magazine was on the ball they would set something up, hint.. regardless as the time grows near we should talk more about it. Might be a good thread. I don’t have the time now as it just came to me but if I have time latter I may just do that.

RibHit
fm

:cool:

TaiChiBob

05-11-2004, 05:00 AM

Greetings..

This sounds like a great opportunity for love of the art to outshine the struggle for power and control.. so many of you guys sound sincere and focused on the essence, it could be a really great gathering.. As always, i am willing to set the past aside in favor of a new beginning.. if the "powers that be" could do the same it could be the beginning of a CMA revival..

I extend on open welcome to all that wish to visit the school where i am fortunate to call Home, Extreme Harmony Martial Arts Academy.. it is about 30-40 minutes from the tournament site on S.R. 417.. (about 5 minutes from Wah Lum).. I hope to host a gathering of interested people to promote true fellowship and harmony in the Arts.. but, likely most folks will want to stay near the tournament.. perhaps we can get together informally, not to bash the obvious but to set a new course.. a way to help the student through references, cross-training agreements between schools, etc.. suppose one of your students is in town for a few days, i would welcome them at our school for training or just good fellowship.. hopefully, you could do the same..

In any case, i am looking forward to seeing all of you guys.. CMA and NPM in particular, is a unique group of warriors.. fellowship and unity can only make it better..

Be well..

Green_Tea

05-11-2004, 07:16 AM

I had another question about the tournament. I'm sure this will develope over time and it may sound silly to some people, but I have just been having a lot of problems yelling with punches, kicks, etc. I keep hearing that a lot of your score will be determined on your spirit and I know there are other good reasons for yelling and expelling qi. I know that no one will think I'm stupid for doing it. And I can lecture software in fornt of my students no problem. But for SOME REASON maybe because I am shy, I have difficulty doing it. Some days are better than others but it's a continous battle, something I have to remind myself to do. It's funny because I used to grunt and scream like a banshee during rowing races and people did make fun of me about that. But now that it's become more important I can't do it... anyway, I thought maybe the tournament would serve as a good goal, a place where I could really feel serious and see other people doing it as well. So while I'll continue to work on it, any words of advice or stories? Sometimes with me, someone will just have to say one profound thing and it'll all make sense again... thanks!

TaiChiBob

05-11-2004, 08:06 AM

Greetings..

Now, what i am about to say is simply my opinion, but.. spirit is evident in your form, not in a noise.. i do all forms without a verbal sound, though you may hear an occasional grunt, whoosh or other expulsion (especially depending on recent diet :) )... but, verbal sounds (engaging the vocal cords) just doesn't work for me.. mostly i want to be focused on the action, not the "opera"..
as a judge, i look for spirit in the form, in the eyes, and.. too much verbal noise will get you a deduction in my book..

Be well..

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-11-2004, 10:46 AM

Same here. That's why I can't watch Karate competitions anymore. Drives me nuts.

Green_Tea
Have someone point me out and you can ask me anything about anything.

18elders

05-11-2004, 11:14 AM

i"m with TCB and HLL on that one. Wah lum usually only has the yell on the single finger although i have seen some of TH students trying to be karate guys or something and yell every other move. Don't like it, and it wouldn't get you any extra points if i was judging. The only one i like who vocalized alot was Tracy flemming, see if someone will let you watch one of his forms on tape. The spirit will be in your eyes, jing, and movement, not in how much you yell.

Oso

05-11-2004, 11:33 AM

should be incidental. some movements require or create sharp exhalations of breath. if you make noise as a byproduct of that then that's ok. if you are focusing on screaming as loud as you can then you are not focused on the movement itself.

just my .02

SaMantis

05-11-2004, 11:57 AM

I don't know if I can offer anything profound, but I also did LOG at my first tournament and had the same problem coordinating the "yee" with punches and kicks. I don't vocalize well anyway so my "yee" was this tiny little yelp.

IME the "yee" is a helpful tool in the learning process, helps you develop coordination, timing & breathing in forms. I've never really thought of it as a yell although, bringing it from the diaphragm, it can be pretty loud. None of this "kiaaaiiiiiiaaiiaiiiia!!!" stuff, however. Just "yee" where your sifu tells you to do it (in tourneys, usually at the end of sections in the form) and try to bring it from your gut.

The best part of doing LOG for tournament is that for 3 months I just practiced the heck out of that one form. And it really provided a knowledge base for the techniques I've learned since. I still review it everytime I practice.

Xiao Tang Lang

05-11-2004, 01:01 PM

I know it may be too early to ask, but does anybody know what the topic of the Mantis seminars will be?

Yu Shan, I am planning on attending the seminars. Hopefully I will be able to meet up with you. I am looking forward to meeting many of the people from KFO! Take care!

Oso

05-11-2004, 05:33 PM

good question...and I hope they don't have the two mantis seminars at the same time...I'd hate to have to choose.

oh, Who is Nick Scrima?????:)

18elders

05-11-2004, 07:48 PM

there will be 2 mantis seminars, one by Su Yu Chang and another by Sun De Yao.
Doesn't list what SYC is doing, SDY is doing plum flower hand form(doesn't say which one) and plum flower gim(i think).

here is the link:
www.kungfuchampionship.com

Green_Tea

05-12-2004, 08:28 AM

Thank you to everyone, makes me feel better to know my spirit won't JUST be judged on how well I can yell.

Originally posted by SaMantis
IME the "yee" is a helpful tool in the learning process, helps you develop coordination, timing & breathing in forms.

Now that you mention it, I'd suspect that perhaps as you said, they tell us to do that for the learning process, because thinking back on things, I don't remember much yelling when I watched the demo team perfrom during Chinese New Year. Since I'm still new, they really need to break stuff down for me :).

Originally posted by SaMantis
The best part of doing LOG for tournament is that for 3 months I just practiced the heck out of that one form. And it really provided a knowledge base for the techniques I've learned since. I still review it everytime I practice.

Yes! That was the deciding factor for me to compete as originally I was going to chicken out :o But I figured it would be better to work extra hard on basics to build a strong foundation. Same reason I waited another month to take my first test. I could have passed in it January, but I didn't want to just "squeeze by", I wanted to really know my stuff. So I gave myself another month. I figured if tears came to my eyes whenever my sihings mentioned the test, I wasn't ready yet :).

Frogman

05-12-2004, 10:05 AM

Yees are the least of my concerns as I prepare for the upcoming competition. How is the judging done, is there a point scale for the amount of yelling?? I Yee on a power strikes not for anyone’s benefit but my own. Like dumping a jigsaw puzzle on to the table and having all the pieces fall into place and the Yee pops out. I have two maybe three in my form, and when I do them you will hear them!!! Maybe I’ll use RibHit instead, LOL.:D
Anyway I hope to have fun and hope you do to. Seeya or maybe hearya, there.

RibHit
fm
:cool:

yu shan

05-13-2004, 07:10 AM

Oso- Nick has a school in Dunedin Fla. He teaches Mi Zong Lou Han and has trained in many styles. He is a good Teacher, you can tell this by just watching his students, they train hard. If your ever in Tampa, check his school out, very nice! You might PM the poster named "Tak", or google for more info.

I just wish Nick would be fair with our group, and allow us to support MA at his tournament. Because a certain MA School which has large numbers $$$ doesn`t want us there, he caves. What do you do!?

18elders

05-14-2004, 10:40 AM

Unfortunately MC (WL) has banned pong lai from judging or being in the Masers demo. Too bad, you will lose quality judging and miss out on some great kung fu. So much for the fellowship. I imagine all my kung fu brothers from wah lum that i have know for years will be too afraid to talk to us also.

www.ponglai.com

woliveri

05-14-2004, 01:25 PM

18Elders,

Why don't you guys just go to the tournament and relentlessly kick ass.

Show your colors and the truth will come out.

Eventually there will be enough MA diversity in Florida where WL will be banning themselves.

Oso

05-14-2004, 06:54 PM

pong lai, yu shan, 18elders:

woliveri has, imho, a point. let's just kick some ass.

i dunno about about the tampa school but let's send J and maybe R from the Nashville school in for forms. None of my folks are ready for big time forms comps yet and I'll handle the sparring end...hope that's not egotistical, but...I am PL now :D

let's just show what it's all about...

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-15-2004, 07:29 AM

I learned 25 years ago that politics, in one way or another, dominates competitions no matter what their claims. It's all a matter of how much you value trophies (although it is a good way to get your name out).

One of my goals at WL was to be good enough that they can no longer ignore me. Work hard, build a following and promote the arts and you won't be brushed aside so easily.

As for any other 'resolutions' then, you know, open Peac0ck feathers and all that.

Stupid censoring software! You can't even say pea****. Can you tone that thing down a little?

flem

05-15-2004, 07:12 PM

hua lin,
not to be an a$$ or anything, but "being good enough" hasn't seemed to work. it seems that you are either have to be without personal standards or you have to be willing to sacrifice them in order to succeed in the wl org. thats the way it seems from my perspective. seems you're always having to "take one for the team", but when you need the team...!

Starchaser107

05-15-2004, 08:42 PM

I'll be there.
i hope it's fun, it'll be my second time competing overseas.

18elders

05-15-2004, 09:52 PM

the part that bothers me is that i think they need more judges, if you look at any of the rings, at least 2 out of the 4 judges are wah lum. It is not fair for ANY OTHER STYLE, there should be only 1 judge from any school in each ring, no 2 or 3 from the same organization.
Maybe we should just wear wah lum t-shirts and we will score higher.
I think it really sucks, you have people coming from all over, spending alot of money to come and they won't be judged well.
I won't be scored well anyways, i don't have any flips, splits or acrobatical stuff in my form.

Starchaser107

05-15-2004, 10:08 PM

is the politics really that bad?
that's sort of depressing.
i'm not a mantid or anything i dunno much about this.
i guess i'll just have to see for myself.:(

Tainan Mantis

05-16-2004, 01:06 AM

My friend Shanghai Kid,
That is the spirit!

Hua Lin Laoshr,
I agree with you about you being noticed if you were good enough.
But the question I ask is what is good enough?

Here are some of my view points.

For punches,
To be able to punch through a brick wall.
And no wise ass comments about bricks not fighting.

To have a pi smashhing action like Paul Bunyon on a giant redwood.

The kick of a bucking bronco.
And I don't mean after the hoedown, but while he is fenced in next door to lass in hotness(Chinese translastion of the term).

A head like a granite block.

A bag of those Pilates exercise balls for courage.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.
So that we can tie this all together with Wude and a shaolin spirit.
We need a heart of love.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-16-2004, 08:25 AM

Tainan and flem
My comment about being good enough concerns the general public and your peers. If you're seen around and show you know your stuff you can't be ignored. At first you can be dismissed but sooner or later people begin to wonder. During the Tournament 2000 Masters show quite a few students saw me and another Temple instructor (who's name will not be mentioned so we'll just call him M, or Mr. Big;)) sitting in the audience and questioned why were weren't up there performing.

I don't rank anywhere near the upper level of talent that came out of WL and is still at WL but I believe I've gained a fair level of respect with a lot of the students and with my martial arts brothers in other styles. I've reached the level of Sifu within the system and I've been working on promoting myself rather than waiting and counting on others to give me a leg up. Like me or not, they all have to deal with me know.

Specifically speaking, Tainan, good enough is being able to execute the moves correctly, cleanly, with power and understanding, and the ability to demonstrate the application when teaching. Also any other specialized skill that's beyond the ability of the general public. Your knowledge alone as demonstrated on this forum has given you a reputation that's not easily destroyed. If I tried to say you were a nutcase and didn't know what you're talking about or that you weren't good enough to teach everyone would think that I'm the nutcase.

Generally speaking let others see what you can do, what you know and how you conduct yourself. Don't try to steal power and strength through negativity towards others. Instead build your own power and strength through your deeds and others will notice. Nobody is without fault but try to minimize any area that could be open for attack (verbally speaking). If anyone tries to dismiss you or marginalize you the rest of the world will question their motives and integrity. I guess this is just a long way of saying be the better man but fight when you have no choice.

BTW, never sacrifice personal standards to succeed. Rather, use your standards to succeed.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-16-2004, 08:40 AM

Another thing flem, in my personal experiences there is no team. I may be a bit jaded but that's how I grew up. I've had friends turn against me in a fight. When sh1t goes down I'm always prepared to be on my own now matter how much people tell me they have my back. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Then when it's their turn, well, no obligations is sometimes a good thing. Sorry, can't help you out this time.

Life is just a long series of problems to solve. I guess I'd be bored if it wasn't.

yu shan

05-16-2004, 08:52 PM

Starchaser107- By all means, go to the tournament, and good luck. While there, keep an ear out for KFM posters. We are trying to get together.

Hua Lin Laoshi- I also wonder "what is good enough". I have seen MANY very talented MA Teachers in WL get booted or leave. I have questioned this for years. WL does attract high quality. Yet after years of dedication, the so-called Temple turns their back on Teachers, unfortunately when they are doing bad, or Suzi gets upset.

Shanghai_kid This rif between Pong Lai and Wah Lum originated from a WL Shifu`s wife egging on a student posting on KFM. The student was pressured into "saying things" on KFM. I must agree, at some point there needs to be a fight. We have tried to be civil, but WL has nothing to loose... but a fight!

Frogman

05-17-2004, 01:00 PM

“Shanghai_kid This rif between Pong Lai and Wah Lum originated from a WL Shifu`s wife egging on a student posting on KFM. The student was pressured into "saying things" on KFM.”

yushan

With all due respect sir,
I find it hard to believe that one individual’s remarks in a post could cause such a rift. I know what your talking about and as much as I would like not, to respond, I think the record should be set straight about WWW. The student posting acted on his own most likely thinking he was doing the right thing, school pride and all that. He was a character, no doubt, and has since moved on. At no time was he egged, ask, instructed, or pressured into “saying anything”. On the contrary, the only request made of him was to consider what he posted before putting his foot in his mouth. It was WWW and WWW alone that submitted those posts, if I remember he did also apologize. Besides there are lots of things said here online if you put to much into the text you need to back away from the PC. Things can easily be misinterpreted. There’s nothing wrong with a little controversy (mantis style), and politics are unavoidable with so many people, but it doesn’t have to be a soap opera. The rift is well beyond WWW a 2 year student who posted about things he did not understand. The tournament issue is unfortunate but is doubtful that it was determined by any of these posts. This is also beyond me and I am stepping out of this one.
I personal have no reason to not have an open communication with everyone here, and am looking forward to meeting many of my online friends, regardless of where they train.

Peace,
:D
RibHit
fm
:cool:

Starchaser107

05-17-2004, 01:56 PM

"good luck. While there, keep an ear out for KFM posters. We are trying to get together"
_______________________________________________

cool, tnx
same 2 u,
I'll keep an ear out.

18elders

05-17-2004, 02:13 PM

I don't have any problems with any of the people in WL, look forward to meeting some of the people who post here and training with them if they can, or helping you guys with your wah lum stuff.
The problem i have is the way that MC operates, it was all started by a WL student and we(pong lai) are being punished for it. Our Shrfu has tried to smooth things out, called MC, wrote letters and eventually just drove over to the temple to talk to MC.
But as you can see, MC was not willing to work it out. That is not cool in my book, especially if you have the characters for learn kindness and fellowship on your altars. What's up with that?
It shows the character of the person, banning us from tournaments, etc. Why not work it out? We have no problem with you guys, our shrfu has sent lion dance shows to your school when we couldn't make it, he refers people to your school when they come to check our class out. He tells people to go try the other schools and come back. He is confident in his kung fu, that is why he tells them to check everyone else out.
I'm sure we don't get that from WL.
MC complains our shrfu stoled students, how do you steal a student? We left because we were not happy with our training in WL.
Anyways, hope everyone has a good time at the tournament.

flem

05-17-2004, 06:53 PM

hua lin,
i agree with what you said 100%. but i think you're missing my point. with the expectation that you are spreading the art, supporting various functions, and staying within the boundries/confines of the "rules", it would seem something ought to come back when you need it. heck, it should come back b4 it's needed.

Green_Tea

05-17-2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Starchaser107
I'll be there.
i hope it's fun, it'll be my second time competing overseas.

You're coming all the way from Jamaica? Wow! This is my first tournament and I heard it's pretty big, but do you know if a lot of overseas ppl come?

Green_Tea

05-17-2004, 09:30 PM

Oh! Something else I just remembered that I wanted toask you guys!

My mom's so cute, she's coming from Tampa as a spectator to watch the tournament. She's really excited but she was wondering a few things and I was having difficulty finding answers on the website. I know it'll cost $20 to get in, but is it beneficial for her to show up early? Maybe to "get a good seat"? And I know there's a fee for a video camera but what about a film camera? I was also having trouble finding where to park and the map wasn't really that good but I was unable to find the exact address of the hotel to put into mapquest. Is there anything else she should be aware of? Can she eat in there? That sort of thing... I guess I oculd justcall and ask them but I thought I'd post these questions in case anyone else had the same ones. Thanks!

woliveri

05-17-2004, 11:34 PM

First, 20.00 spectator fee? Is that for the whole weekend, multiple days?

Second, Video camera fee?? What the He77 is that? For Cripes Sakes this gets more and more ridiculous every year. I never heard of such krap. Let's say I'm a parent and I want to video tape my child's competition. Now you're going to charge me to do that. Get real. You don't see this krap at any other sporting events. Video camera fee..... <shakes his head>

Who want's to support this ridiculous policy? WL has always had a problem with video cameras and now have found a way to affect their use through taxation. Where does this money go to?

I really can't believe it....... <shakes his head>

WL should go back to having their private tournaments within the WL system and stop soiling the rest of the MA community with their antics.

Geeeeezzzzzzzz..

Frogman

05-18-2004, 02:47 AM

18elders,
I understand what you are saying. There is no doubt that there is a rift, and the root cause is a matter of perspective, it would seem. It certainly has nothing to do with me and I am in no position to suggest otherwise. I simply responded to the idea that www’s post was instigated. I was there and know that he was in fact ask not to stir the pot.
\
I just got back for the beach and had a chance to practice my form in the water. It’s fun to train in the water as it offers a different feel. Stances are easier, but movement is restricted. I like the way kicking and punching feels you really get a good sense of pushing you arm or leg. Even stance can be challenging in shallow water trying to hold a stance as the waves push you around like a rag doll. Waves were not that big but I still had a hard time holding my position as the water would just pick me up and move me.

Green tea,
Those are some good questions…:confused:

RibHit
fm
:cool:

Starchaser107

05-18-2004, 04:05 AM

hi green tea
i'll be travelling with a few of my classmates, but as for other international competitors, i dunno.
i hear that gaylord palms (wack name) is kind of farish from fast food chains and stuff, but i know they have a resturaunt at the hotel...probably with some hefty prices for food i imagine.

Does anybody know when (time) specific events will take place?
like i know friday is registration but are there events other than superfights that night...
does the majority of events take place on saturday?
what happens on sunday?
i don't recall seeing this information on the site.

18elders

05-18-2004, 04:43 AM

i don't think she needs to get there too early, as far as her seat she will probably move to be close to the ring # you will be competing in. They usually have hot dogs and stuff like that for sale but not sure about this resort, hopefully they will have something a little better to eat.

sayloc

05-18-2004, 04:58 AM

Most tornaments charge a video fee. It has been that way for at least ten years. I doubt that it has any thing to do with one particular style.

18elders

05-18-2004, 05:22 AM

the first time i ever heard of that was at the WL tournament 2000

isol8d

05-18-2004, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by woliveri
First, 20.00 spectator fee? Is that for the whole weekend, multiple days?

Second, Video camera fee?? What the He77 is that? For Cripes Sakes this gets more and more ridiculous every year. I never heard of such krap. Let's say I'm a parent and I want to video tape my child's competition. Now you're going to charge me to do that. Get real. You don't see this krap at any other sporting events. Video camera fee..... <shakes his head>

Who want's to support this ridiculous policy? WL has always had a problem with video cameras and now have found a way to affect their use through taxation. Where does this money go to?

I really can't believe it....... <shakes his head>

WL should go back to having their private tournaments within the WL system and stop soiling the rest of the MA community with their antics.

Geeeeezzzzzzzz..

Umm, I was at Nick Scrima's tournament in 2002, and there was a Video camera fee back then... Is NS a WL sifu?

Oh yeah, and perhaps this has something to do with it:

"This Championship is now scheduled to be televised by Sky TV!!!"

Spectator Information (http://www.kungfuchampionship.com/Spectators.htm)

isol8d

05-18-2004, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Starchaser107
hi green tea
i'll be travelling with a few of my classmates, but as for other international competitors, i dunno.
i hear that gaylord palms (wack name) is kind of farish from fast food chains and stuff, but i know they have a resturaunt at the hotel...probably with some hefty prices for food i imagine.

You have caught the correct. It's not too terribly far from some of the food chains near Disney, but it isn't exactly across the street.

The resturaunt's in the hotel are on the expensive side.

sayloc

05-18-2004, 06:29 AM

If this is only the second time you have seen a video fee you were not looking for one before or you havnt been to very many tournaments. I think the Karate tournaments started it a long time ago.

Dont get me wrong, I dont like the fee. They know mommy will pay anything for their kids , even buy black belts.

On the other hand, they do have to make enough money to hold the tournament.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-18-2004, 06:56 AM

flem
You mean like investing in the future? You get out what you put in? Take care of your students and they'll take care of you? That type of thinking?

I don't know how much Frogman knows of the situation but he seems to have zereod in on the truth. It goes beyond anything posted here. 18elders, I know I've told you before what the issue is between our Sifus but I'll refrain from saying anything else about it here. I believe there may be some unresolved issues between Master Shr and Master Chan but I have very little knowledge of their views about each other. Better to let them work it out themselves if there is a problem. Then there's the problem of 2 competing schools in the same town whose key players seem to be an old circle of friends.

Pong Lai members (and WL if you really want to know) can email me privately about this and I'll tell you what I know and how I feel about it. Other than that, true or false, I'm not going to throw accusations around a public forum.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-18-2004, 07:19 AM

Geen_Tea
There's no need for your mom to get there early other than maybe better parking and beating the crowd. The drawback is a longer stand around time waiting for things to get started. It's a really long day for spectators and most wear out well before the end of the day. They never seem to get started on time and the bigger the turnout the harder it is to stay on schedule although Nick has plenty of experience running events like this.

Like 18elders said she'll probably be moving to be near the ring you are competing in plus stretching her legs plus getting something to eat plus walking around seeing what the vendors are selling etc.

There is no fee for a film camera so she can take all the still shots she wants but it may cost you if you want your picture taken with a famous Master. Most will let you take a picture but I have seen where a booth is set up and pictures sold.

woliveri

05-18-2004, 08:39 AM

Ok, maybe I was a bit presumptuous with that assertion. My apologies.

I still think it's outrageous.

yu shan

05-18-2004, 09:10 AM

Frogman- Oh well someone is not telling the whole story, and who really cares. Sorry you had to chime in, I say we just forget about it and move on. BTW, training on the beach is awesome. We use to do our forms in the deep loose sand, very good! All the while checking out the scenery of course.

Gaylord Palms is a Four Diamond Large-scale Hotel. Looks like I will pak a cooler. If you have a rental car, Kissimmee is close by with miles and miles of eateries and less expensive motels. Remember, this is a holiday weekend, doubtfull any deals with motels. If anyone knows of a deal, please speak up. I`m interested in vendors at the tournament, need to pick up some supplies. Know of any?

Oso

05-18-2004, 12:00 PM

yu shan, just send me a list and I'll order it.
I will place my next order the first week of june but if you need something by the weekend of the seminar let me know now.

video fees are studid but most people are doing them now.

starchaser: cool, it will be good to see you. I'll be the one Pong Lai guy that's not ex-WL :D

woliveri

05-18-2004, 12:05 PM

video fees are studid but most people are doing them now

I guess I've just been out of it so long I didn't realize it's common now. It was quite a shock to say the least and I'm still frosted about it for sure.

Oso

05-18-2004, 01:03 PM

the local tourney I just went to had a $10 fee but I asked the promoter and he waived it because I had agreed to judge.

wasn't the one here like $30, that seems steep.

i just recently got yelled at when I took a video cam into a basketball game...a NBDL level game...exactly. I had to tell the guy I was filming a friends kid who was dancing for a half time show and then they watched me like a hawk

Starchaser107

05-18-2004, 02:28 PM

I'll look out 4 ya bear man

Oso

05-18-2004, 08:33 PM

ya ya, at 240 I'm looking more like my namesake every day. :p

be cool to meet and drink some beer on of those nights.

Frogman

05-19-2004, 10:10 AM

“I don't know how much Frogman knows of the situation but he seems to have zereod in on the truth. It goes beyond anything posted here.” (Hua Lin Loashi)

Anyone who has been reading these threads for the last three years should have a pretty good idea of what is going on. My take is that there are a bunch of individual stories that are all intermingled. I’m sure what is posted here can increase tensions but it is not the root cause. Most if not all of which went down before I started WL. Even though it has nothing to do with me it is hard not to be aware of the situation. My involvement does not go beyond what I have read here, I try to only read not post on the subject.

“I say we just forget about it and move on.” (yushan)

I could not agree more…

The sand was awesome! I didn’t do any forms in the heavy sand but the next time I think I will give it a try. I enjoy alternative training ideas one of the big attraction of KF in general. Growing up watching those Hong Kong KF flicks with all the interesting ideas they came up with to train. Whenever I find myself with a unique opportunity I try to make the best of it. I have been helping a friend with a house project recently in which I am crawling around under a house. About two and half three foot clearance, can you say LOW stances. Oh, and you don’t want to put your knee down as the ground is covered with glass. Just before I realize this opportunity I was asking myself when will I have time to really work hard enough to give myself a little bit of an advantage with the upcoming tournament. Then it hit me, like a RibHit only not as hard. I make the best of physical labor. I don’t work as hard in my current job as I have in the past but I am finding time and projects to compensate. Over the Memorial weekend I plan on cutting some trees in my back yard. Heavy logs!!!! Ya That’s It!

RibHit,
fm

yu shan

05-20-2004, 09:49 PM

Frogman- You are a glutton for punishment my man. A crawl space lined with glass and throwing trees around. Can`t compare with this, but! I have this chance to work on a cow farm drivin` a freakin tractor all day, helping out a friend from work. Yikes, went from surfin to tractor`n. Girls in ballcaps... er rock!

Has anyone found out what information will be shared from the seminars (pm)?

flem

05-21-2004, 03:51 AM

hua lin,

are you serious, masters charge money for a picture taken with them!? OMG, what a joke. that is just stupid, as are the people willing to pay.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-21-2004, 07:54 AM

Nothing surprises me anymore after seeing mail order Sifu programs and Black Belt correspondence courses. How about Dim Mak over the Internet? :)

yu shan
Say hello to Paris and Nicole for me.:D

Ronin BaBu

05-22-2004, 06:47 PM

Hey, i was wondering how many of you guys are staying at the hotel that the tournement is hosted at?
I thnk we should set something up where us mantis guys can get together and exchange some stuff and ideas outside the tournement.

yu shan

05-22-2004, 07:58 PM

Ronin Babu

I thought Tai Chi Bob was going to get us all together, haven`t heard from him lately. No worries, lets make it happen. I`m not staying at the Gaylord Palms, my in-laws are setting me and Oso up. We need to cut some cost. But I`m just crashin there, will not miss a minute of the action!

I have to agree with Flem, paying to have your mug taken with anyone shucks, and just aint right. On the other hand, it would be cool to get group photos of KFM posters. JMO

Frogman

05-23-2004, 07:21 AM

;)
Paying for a picture of yourself standing next to a master??? I guess it all depends on who they are and how bad you want people to know that you stood next to them. Meeting famous people is not on my agenda and I think I’ll spend my money on beer. I do hope to get some pics of myself doing my form and more so if I mess up.

Yushan,
It’s not as bad as it sounds, it’s more like a state of mind. I just like to take advantage of unique opportunities to work out. Crawling under a house using my legs and hips is better then straining my back by bending. The glass is just an incentive to not rest or put my knees down. The last two classes I attended this week were far more demanding. Farming is very hard work too. The few people that I know who grew up on a farm are also some of the toughest people I know.

RibHit
fm:cool:

TaiChiBob

05-23-2004, 12:46 PM

Greetings..

yu shan: My school is available for an off-site meeting(s) ( i will furnish snacks and refreshments).. however, it is +/- 30 min. away from the site of the Tournament.. i am looking into an on-site suite where we could meet as an alternative.. if nothing else, i hope we can get together for dinner and chat-up some ideas like exchanging instructors for small workshops, having a policy for visiting students so they can train out of town, etc.. i hope we can demonstrate the true meaning of fellowship in the face of the obvious misconceptions.. If you have any ideas, i am open to whatever helps promote our Art as a wholesome family of respectful CMA players.. I will keep a log of ideas that we can contemplate and discuss..

Be well..

yu shan

05-23-2004, 09:07 PM

Tai Chi Bob

Good to hear from you. I was hoping to get to your school anyway. I wouldn`t go to the expense of an on-site suite or anything. Some of the best gongfu I`ve ever seen was in a parking lot. I`m sure some how we will all come together. I`m all for the fellowship thing and hopefully exchanging information for the future. I do have some ideas to share with you.

Frogman

Yup, I understand a hard days work. I was raised by a United States Marine who believed in giving every minute/hour/day of his life. I like your work ethic Frogman, more young people need to be like you. My Mom`s side is from Southern Alabama, so we have the farmers in the family... God Bless`em.

isol8d

05-26-2004, 11:01 AM

A co-worker of mine tipped me off that parking anywhere at the Gaylord Palms site is $7, cash.

Just a heads up for those that are attending.....:D

Tak

05-27-2004, 10:42 AM

This is what there is for a schedule of events (http://www.kungfuchampionship.com/Schedule.htm). There aren't specific times listed for all the events - I believe that's to allow them to be more flexible if something runs long, or if there's a problem with two simultaneous events having a lot of common competitors (e.g. Fixed step push hands competition is set to start, but most of the competitors are still performing/preparing to perform/just finished performing a taiji empty hand form). Saturday is competition all day, masters' demos at night. Sunday morning is all seminars, Sunday afternoon is more competition.

About the wah lum vs pong lai stuff - I'm sorry, I don't know anything about it; in fact, I barely know anything about wah lum at all.. Sounds like a sh it deal, though.

Hua Lin Laoshi

05-27-2004, 02:27 PM

Thanks for the info update. Any word yet on the Su Yu Chang seminar? PLEASE don't let it conflict with Sun De Yao's seminars or you'll have a bunch of angry Mantids on your hands. :D

If you could post the info here when you find out it would be grreatly appreciated. Thanks.

Actually, I really should take advantage of a good Tai Chi or Qi Gong seminar. I always pass them up in favor of Kung Fu. No wonder my TC is so bad.

yu shan

05-27-2004, 11:05 PM

Hua Lin Laoshi

Cannot find anything for Su Yu Chang?! Sun De Yao`s dates/times are listed though.

Tak

Yea, it`s not cool. Hopefully, things between these groups will come together. We will keep trying... it is for the good.

Oso

05-28-2004, 03:11 AM

hopefully they know that most of us will do both seminars if we have the option and will offer them at separate times.

Tak

06-01-2004, 08:32 AM

AFAIK still nothing scheduled for Su Yu Chang. They are going to attempt to keep his nonconflicting with the Sun De Yao seminars. The feedback is very appreciated.

Green_Tea

06-01-2004, 10:39 AM

Thanks for everyone's answers. So if my mom brings a cooler of sandwhiches or something she won't get yelled at? I wish there were some way I could know when everyone's events are so I could go cheer you on. Do ppl cheer you on? Oh, maybe if they announce people's names? I read something about everyone finding a place to meet? Is that still going on? If so when and where?

woliveri

06-01-2004, 12:18 PM

So if my mom brings a cooler of sandwhiches or something she won't get yelled at?

They will need to inspect each one to make sure there's no video camera hidden inside.

Also, you may get a Concession Stand tax because you refused to support the event Concession Stand.

Bwaaaaa Haaa haaa Haaa..............

Snicker, snicker.....

isol8d

06-01-2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by woliveri
So if my mom brings a cooler of sandwhiches or something she won't get yelled at?

They will need to inspect each one to make sure there's no video camera hidden inside.

Also, you may get a Concession Stand tax because you refused to support the event Concession Stand.

Bwaaaaa Haaa haaa Haaa..............

Snicker, snicker.....

But then she can charge $5 to get pictures taken with her sammiches.

norther practitioner

06-03-2004, 02:41 PM

I'm trying to get some money together to get down to this one....

Only have a couple of weeks left to save up.

Oso

06-03-2004, 06:52 PM

i'm going to have to back out, can't go to florida twice in 2 weeks and Master Shr's visit is a priority.

Definitely recommend any of you Fla peeps who aren't constrained by politics to try and get into the seminars, I've only seen some private movies of Master Shr in action and I've never seen anything like him in 22 years of training.

yu shan

06-03-2004, 09:51 PM

I will also have to change my plans. Was looking forward to supporting everyone and hanging out. But with my Shrye coming to the United States, I must spend this time with him. If you are serious about your Mantis Boxing, take time out of your life and check this Man out. I guarantee he will open your eyes to a whole new way at looking at your stuff.

Tak

06-18-2004, 10:38 AM

Bad news - Su Yu Chang has canceled his seminars for this year. However, Sun De Yao's are still on (Friday afternoon and Sunday morning), as are Tony Yang's (Baji Friday afternoon, Bagua Sunday morning).

yu shan

06-18-2004, 01:52 PM

Tak

That`s a bummer, hope he is OK.

Due to Shi Zhengzhong`s visit being changed to September, I can go ahead with my plans to attend this tournment. Hope to meet some of you there.

woliveri

06-18-2004, 02:25 PM

Yu Shan,

How long does Shi Zhengzhong plan to be in the U.S. and where does he plan to be (locations)?

Thanks,

yu shan

06-18-2004, 02:55 PM

Not sure on the length of his stay, pm 18-Elders he should have this info. He will be in Tampa, Florida. There is a thread explaining what he will be teaching. Thank you for asking.

Frogman

06-21-2004, 08:25 AM

Two week togo. It has been said that if you don’t go into win you’ve lost already. At the same time trying to hard can also be self defeating. I must admit I have some work to do on cleaning up my routines but mostly just need to relax. It’s gonna be fun! Looks like we’ll be able to do the KFO group meeting and hopefully a pic after all. I plan to arrive Friday evening and will be there till Sunday morning. See you soon, and good luck everyone.
:D

RibHit
fm

Ronin BaBu

06-21-2004, 08:38 PM

10 days to go.
We should set something definate up soon about a meeting between all of the mantis practicioners going to the tournement.
I am staying at hte gaylord hotel, but i don't know who else is... and someone mentioned that their school was available.. so lets get somehting set up...it will be a great opportunity to meet and share ideas and techniques with different mantis guys around the country.

yu shan

06-21-2004, 08:50 PM

Frogman

It`s crunch time! How many events are you signed up for? Are you doing a hand form, weapon form and will you be fighting? Do you change your forms for competition? Don`t worry, I`m not allowed to be a judge... remember! Our Schools, Pong Lai Martial Arts were banned from participating in this way, this infuriates me. How can Nick allow Master Chan to pull this cr*p? Anyway, I`m still going to attend and appreciate everyone`s efforts. And hopefully meet some of you quality people. Froggy, I`ll pm you my cell #, good luck to you. Just be very confident with yourself, it`s your time to shine!

Frogman

06-22-2004, 10:09 AM

Yushan
Yes crunch time is upon us, I don’t think I can improve that much between now and the tournament so I am just going through my forms trying to clean them up. I will be doing both an empty hand and weapon forms. My hand form is a combination from at least four other forms. Then I will also be doing left handed tiger fork in the long weapons competition. I wouldn’t mind if you were judging as I believe you would make a fair call. This goes back to not having anything to do with me so I can not say much on the matter. It will still be fun and I’m sure that we will have more good things to talk about then bad.

I will be staying at the resort (how trendy) and with any luck will not have to leave to often. I also like the idea of waking up and being there. I can work myself into a frenzy during a long drive.

See yu soon,

RibHit
fm
:cool:

18elders

06-22-2004, 07:53 PM

Have you thought about stick, spear or long handle nine ring instead of tiger fork?
Not sure if tiger fork would be the best weapon to be able to win the division?
What 4 forms are you putting together?

yu shan

06-22-2004, 09:05 PM

Frogman

You bet I`d be fair. The "stuff" that catches my attention, power directed from the waist (fa-jing) the over-all clarity of the form, your eyes, and that good ole smashing thru the other guy spirit of the Mantis! I happen to like the fork, 18-elders has a point though. The flashy stuff always gets attention, I applaud you for being differant. I`m curious about the four forms, but if you don`t want to comment it`s cool. Yea, smart staying at the on sight property... less stress. Did you get my pm?

woliveri

06-22-2004, 09:30 PM

For me, it's not so much that the weapon is flashy but quick and powerful. That the practioner can demonstrate the weapon with a high spirit, fluidity, quickness, and power. Personally, I find that difficult with a Tiger Fork, Master Stick, Monk Spade, etc. Of course, I'm a little guy but I've yet to see someone handle one of these weapons that made my spirit rise. For me flexible weapons are one of my favorites to watch and practice. 3-sectionals and whip chains. I still remember to this day a demonstration in the early days of Wah Lum when this guy (can't remember his name, a black guy) did this incredible form with the whip chain.

Frogman

06-23-2004, 10:37 AM

:D

You guys have a really good point about the movements with a heavier weapon. It took a long time to get to the point that I’m moving the weapon not the other way around. I work with a heavy bar that I put an extra six pound on one end (22lbs total) to simulate my fork. After swinging that around the fork is not bad at all. Still if your not careful a heavier weapon can pull you off balance. Timing is an issue as well getting your move and weapon in sink allowing the energy to move fluidly can prove challenging. Never the less, if I had to choose, two years ago I would use a stick in combat, after training for this tournament I think I prefer a tiger fork over a stick. I would say there are a few, at least one, flashy move in my form but I like that most of it is very practical, blocking, striking, moving back and forth, step in spear. Must say that talking about it here has helped motivate me into pushing myself. Truth is I’m really not worried about winning as that might cause me to fork up, just going to do my best and try to convey my understanding of what I’m doing. Like Yu said eyes focus movement power and of course spirit. Flexible weapons are very cool have a hard time not hurting myself when I try to play with these elusive toys. There is a guy not sure where he is from but he does a mean rope dart each year I see him compete he has gotten much better. Hope to catch him this year. Do you think it’s better to have one weapon of expertise? This can be an advantage I’m sure even if the practitioner is limited to a few choices. That’s why I am working on the pocket tiger fork. This way I can have it on me at all times.

RibHit
fm
:cool:

Frogman

07-02-2004, 08:26 AM

Green_Tea

07-03-2004, 07:37 PM

Well, I didn't fall and split my pants open like in my worst nightmare. But I don't know how I did. We had three judges in our ring. I saw that most of the judges in other rings would give their score and then tally all of them up and give a final average score. But they didn't do that for us. Is that because we're novice? I kind of wish they had so I could remember my number. All I remember is 7.??, 7.??, and 6.?? (maybe 6.58?) I didn't medal but the judges said it was close. So I'm secretly pretending I got fourth place and missed third by .1 points :). I wish there was some way to get feedback. My sihings and sifus were at the advanced competition going on at the same time so I don't blame them for not seeing the measely novice performance. I dunno, my husband says he doesn't care how well he did. He did this competition for himself and he learned a new way to train. I'm jealous of him. I'm honestly jealous of him for not caring. I feel so shallow for caring about not medaling. I wish I could have learned SOMETHING. This tournament was supposed to help me gauge my performance, gauge my abilities. I guess even if I found out I was the worst competitor in my event I wouldn't stop training in kung fu... and I don't think I'm the WORST, but I wish I could at least know if I had any personal victories. My form is a blank. I know nothing except I didn't fall. I don't even rememeber the moves. I forgot my form, my body just did it. I don't even know if it was the right form, I think it was. I just remember the last advice I am told, and that's half way throught the form. Everything else I was supposed to work on: straightening my back leg at the chops, keeping my toes pointed foreward at the sae ping mas, keeping my arm straight over my head during the last punch... all the millions of things my instructors pointed out I was doing wrong... I don't even know if I remembered their valuable advice. I feel like all their teachings for me was in vein... frustrating! But I really did enjoy the show. It was fun.

German Bai Lung

07-04-2004, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by Green_Tea
I wish I could have learned SOMETHING. This tournament was supposed to help me gauge my performance, gauge my abilities. I guess even if I found out I was the worst competitor in my event I wouldn't stop training in kung fu... and I don't think I'm the WORST, but I wish I could at least know if I had any personal victories.

....

all the millions of things my instructors pointed out I was doing wrong... I don't even know if I remembered their valuable advice. I feel like all their teachings for me was in vein... frustrating! But I really did enjoy the show. It was fun.

Hey Greentea,

I think you learned a lot:
- you have do work further on your forms to become better
- you managed to go through the tourny without dying (very important) ;)
- you stand a difficult situation, now you will be better prepared next time!
- mistakes you did this time you probably will not do them any more!

At all: there is no need to be frustrated. Heads up, work hard and next time you will be a winner! :D

18elders

07-04-2004, 05:57 AM

I saw you compete, i thought you did well. You did learn from it, now you know how it feels to compete! The feeling of not even remembering what you did, i have been there before!
As for the judging, well that is difficult, different judges look for different things, i actually don't think the girl who took first place should've won but that is me. I like to see spirit and intensity, if your punching that punch should look like it would hurt someone. I see alot of people even in advanced divisions just doing the moves like a robot.
I would have gone over your form with you but i don't know if that would have gone over well with your sifus.

It was a good tournament, saw lots of old friends and met new people also. I didn't stay for the masters demo though so anyone who did let us know how it was.

SaMantis

07-04-2004, 06:14 AM

Congratulations to everyone who competed!

Don't sweat it, green tea -- I did the same form in my first tourney (T-2000) and I believe my cumulative score was a whopping 6.4. Not sure though, since I only remember 2 things from the form: two of the judges' scores at the end, at the part at the beginning of my form where a toddler ran into the ring. At the time I was too terrified to remember I could ask for a restart, instead I just froze in place until the kids' mom took him off the floor!

Your next tournament will be way better, just like the guys above say. You'll still be nervous, but you'll be more prepared 'cause now you've done it once.

Starchaser107

07-04-2004, 03:09 PM

hmnn. i'm still here at the gaylord palms
i won a first place gold medal for beginner san shou...
by default,
they guy i was supposed to fight switched to advanced the day before leaving me alone in the division.

as for forms yesterday...
whats up with all the low scores for the people that went first, myself included..
i'm especially pizzed about that eagle claw division.

the tournament was okay though. had its ups and downs like everything. alot of the kids and teens from my school did pretty well, who didn't place with forms placed with fighting.
some of us leave empty handed...
i personally would have preferred to have returned home knowing i fought for the medal i got, instead of having it handed to me.

Starchaser107

07-04-2004, 03:31 PM

the masters demo was okay, wasn't all that impressive imho.
however what was really cool was the wah lum lion dance team, thier drumming was pretty cool :cool:

back to the tournament... theres some politics i just dont get...

my classmates were performing in advanced mens staff division

one did a drunken staff , and the other monkey staff....
(and for the record traditional drunken boxing from our eagle claw system, and traditional monkey boxing ..Not Wushu)

the officials were saying that they couldn't allow it because it wasn't traditional kung fu, which in fact it is...and probably more traditional that some of the other forms there...
anyway,
because of that they got the lowest scores.

where this gets unfair is , in advanced mens broadsword division which was one of the ones i was in
a competitor in that group did a drunken sword form, nothing was said to him about his form not being traditional...
nobody said to him that "hey this isn't a traditional form you're doing", so why did this happen to my guys, why the discrepancy?
they didn't score the guy doing the drunken sword low just because of it, what's up with that?

18elders

07-04-2004, 08:05 PM

You should've had the judges get Nick Scrima to your ring and discuss it.
As for the low scores for going first, it sucks to go first, best to be in the end, seems like the scores always start to go up. Being one of the first 3 sucks, they usually have them perform to get an average of the scores and ability, that is why the guys in the end usually score higher.

sean_stonehart

07-04-2004, 09:10 PM

One question... what was the school the guy that did the drunk sword form from?

Starchaser107

07-05-2004, 12:54 AM

what school?
I have no idea, I'd be only speculating if I said.
I'm assuming that theres an implication there, that if it's wah lum its fine....
but i honestly cant say. I only recognize a few of these faces, and wish i knew more of you who attended :)

18elders

07-05-2004, 04:55 AM

he is actually from an ex wah lum students school, Li Kwai Shaolin Association.

Tak

07-05-2004, 10:08 AM

Hey - just got back from the festivities. Congratulations to all that participated. I saw a lot of good kung fu this weekend; fighting and forms.

Sorry I didn't get a chance to socialize with anyone - when I wasn't competing, I was working my @ss off helping out, so I ended up getting about 4 hours of sleep a night and one(!) meal per day. But, if you registered or picked up your pre-registration stuff on Friday, you probably met me - I was the guy behind the counter.

Green Tea, don't worry about not medaling - first of all, the judging is completely subjective; it's not like you can measure someone's performance with a ruler. Second, 95% of the judges were guests, visiting masters and teachers from many different schools, so they all had different backgrounds, preferences, and agendas. Although we assigned judges to relevant areas as much as possible (judges with mantis background get the mantis ring(s), etc). I personally ****ed off the main xing yi judge right before I had to compete in his ring, and I knew I was in trouble from there. Although I have to say that the guys who beat me really did deserve it.

About Wah Lum, there definitely were a lot of WL people there, (although I there was a noticeable lack of WL uniforms on Sunday when all the fighting went on.... :p :D ) But generally I thought those that got good scores had in fact done very well.

Starchaser - you should have said something; they might have been able to set up an exhibition bout for you with someone outside your division. We had a girl in the beginner san shou in the same position as you - there was nobody in her experience/weight class, so they set her up with an exhibition match (with the Italian national women's san da champion(!), the short woman with the spiked blonde hair and the Italia jacket) just so that she could get a fight. She really held her own, too, until she started to gas out.

And OMFG, wasn't the venue spectacular?! Half the time I forgot that I was inside a building. But then I would walk outside where it was 95F instead of 65F inside and get a harsh reminder.

Anyway, congratulations again to all, and see you next year.

Avg-guy

07-05-2004, 10:25 AM

It was pretty good. Had one student in the fighting was his first time out and he placed 3rd. The wah lum drum team was Great ??Master Lo really did a great job.

Frogman

07-06-2004, 06:21 AM

:D
Great week end!!!
I had a great time, saw a lot, met a lot of people learned a lot too. Can’t wait till next year. In all the whole event was a great experience and the venue was awesome! It's like, what life on Mars would be like. Your outside and inside at the same time.
Green Tea, I agree your form looked good. You can only do your best and as a novice you should not let you score trouble you. Being nervous is something everyone has to deal with. I’m very happy with my results and didn’t let my nerve get the best of me. Most of the guys I competed against out classed me IMO, but I still managed to pull third in my long weapons competition. Yes, I did tiger fork. The biggest help for me was that after watching the guys before me I felt I had nothing to lose and little chance of winning, so I just had fun. I did not do as well in my open hands form, but considering the competition I was glad to just compete with these guys. I would have to give a 9.28 score for the weekend. I want to leave room for improvement. Not sure but I believe the score will be posted online. Give it a week or so.
Got to meet… Yu Shan, 18Elders, Green Tea, and the very humble Tai Chi Bob. I also spoke with the Italian coach, he doesn’t speak English but I did tell him I though his team did great. He very happily replied “Grasis, grasis!!”. Everyone was very cool and I believe a good time was had by all. I am going to do a little research this week and post the Frog Report in the next week or so. If anyone has any input please let me know.
;)
RibHit
fm

Tak

07-06-2004, 06:54 AM

Hmm...was TaiChiBob one of the judges for push hands?

yu shan

07-06-2004, 10:14 AM

Tak

I agree, the Gaylord Palms was top shelf. The convention hall was enormous! Nick did tell me it was alot more expensive than the Bay Front Center. But a good central location with many things to do outside the tournament.

I tried to take in as many rings as possible. Seemed well run, the san shou got off to a sputtering start, and was not orgainized well at all. These things do happen. Most competitors in san shou seemed out of shape, and were running out gas. I thought the one fighter Wah Lum had compete (Mark/Temple), got ripped off. He shot very well and had the Italian on his back most of the early part of match. The Italian coach adjusted his fighter, and used a front kick to keep the WL fighter at bay with his takedown attempts. Then with a barrage of straight/hook punches must of caught up point wise, and it didn`t help much that the WL guy led with his face. Anyway, still was very surprised that he lost.

TaiChiBob told me was not allowed to be a judge, you should pm him for the details, I dare not say.

Starchaser107

I witnessed a few people handed medals this way, I told my gongfu brother that I`d just give it back. I have my opinion about the politics, but mums the word. I`ll send you a pm about your traditional kungfu not being excepted, I do not want to bring this up here. I will say, the WL forms look like wu shu to me. You must admit though, these young men and women are very talented and quite amazing! Sorry I did not get to meet you Starchaser, maybe next year.

Frogman

Good to meet up, I thought you remained pretty darn cool before you went on. You nailed your tiger fork, good job! Who was the older Chinese man that got the gold? He also did an amazing straight sword per 18-Elders.

Green_Tea

To me, your personal victory was walking out on the floor. Just between me you and the fence post, I had you third, maybe even closer to 2nd. I thought the tall african/american girl should have gotten the gold. Anyway, you gave justice to your form, you had this seek out and destroy look on your face doing the three rolling backfists!:) I snapped a photo let me know if you`d like to have it. All good advice given, so no need to beat a dead horse. There is nothing wrong with having the desire to win. Both you and your husband are charming people, it was very nice to meet you both. BTW, how many times do you think you practiced your form before Saturday? Your teachers did well, you should thank them... your form was right on.

Starchaser107

07-06-2004, 10:40 AM

well Tak, I was all psyched up to fight I was stunned when i heard the news , cause initially i heard i had two fights. then the official called me over and explained the situation. I asked what I should do and If I could still fight , but he said that was it I automatically win my division... I had no idea about the exhibition match thing.

Starchaser107

07-06-2004, 10:42 AM

and yeah the venue was v. cool.
and did i mention that wah lum lion dance drumming team was good stuff.

Tak

07-06-2004, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by yu shan
[B]I thought the one fighter Wah Lum had compete (Mark/Temple), got ripped off. He shot very well and had the Italian on his back most of the early part of match. The Italian coach adjusted his fighter, and used a front kick to keep the WL fighter at bay with his takedown attempts. Then with a barrage of straight/hook punches must of caught up point wise, and it didn`t help much that the WL guy led with his face. Anyway, still was very surprised that he lost.

Hmm, was this the older Italian guy vs the 18-looking kid? (Heavyweight or close to it) If so, then I didn't catch the start of the match, but the Italian guy was throwing him around like a ragdoll at the end. Stand up, clinch, hip throw. Stand up, clinch, hip throw. Basically after the first standing 8-count (that I saw). In fact, I'm a little surprised he didn't get TKO on that one - his eyes were looking a little scary to me at that point.
If not, then I missed it.

A lot of the forms I saw looked nontraditional to me, but *shrug*.

yu shan

07-06-2004, 01:37 PM

Tak

Nope, it was an earlier bout, lighter weight class. I did see the fight you are speaking of. I had been anticipating this one, because I was hanging around the warm-up area watching this asian fellow and others preparing for battle. I feared for anyone fighting this guy just by the way he was psyching up. Then boom, the Italian let him have it right out of the chair. He was basically in la la land.

The Temple drums fantastic, I`m sure they have a Lee Kwoon Hung influence.

Yup, these flashy nontraditional forms were definitly prevalent... but very well done. Is there suppose to be a traditional NP Mantis division? Not doctored up stuff, I mean the real forms?

This tournament almost felt like an intra-WahLum tourney, but it was in their backyard.

After watching the two-man forms, I`ll definitly bring teams for both hand and weapon, pretty lousy stuff.

Starchaser107

07-06-2004, 02:06 PM

especially that patticake staff vs. staff in the masters demo.

:p

Tak

07-07-2004, 06:53 AM

:p ;)

Frogman

07-08-2004, 10:52 AM

Yu Shan,
His name is Sun De Long, I believe. He also did an awesome Plum Flower Praying Mantis empty hand form. It was the only non WL PM forms I recall seeing. Would have like to have caught some seven star or eight step. There was a lot of Hung Gar and Choy Le Fut. Not to familial with any of the other stuff I saw. Maybe next year.

RibHit
fm

RAF

07-08-2004, 03:15 PM

Although I am not active in praying mantis, I've played it long enough to know what looks good. Sun De Long is Sun De Yao's older brother. I've had the pleasure of spending some time with him and he is well worth listening to or watching.

He was at the Arnold toournament in Columbus, Ohio but didn't get to demonstrate.

I am not sure if he is in New York now or went back to Qingdao. The last time he visited, he gave a seminar in New York.

Keeip your eyes open for a seminar or two when he is in the States.

yu shan

07-09-2004, 09:38 PM

Thank you Frogman & RAF, unfortunate to me, the opportunity to spend quality time with Sun De Long... didn`t happen! He did catch my eye at the tournament, what a Jewel! Any info would be appreciated.

flem

07-11-2004, 04:10 PM

yu shan,

havent been here for awhile but from my brief look at the posts i assume you did not compete!? what happened?

18elders

07-12-2004, 06:32 AM

how's things?
a few factors there, since we are still not allowed to judge or do the demo, decided not to contribute to the financial gain of the promoter, but we did go to meet with people we have been in contact with on this forum. It was enough to pay $20 just to watch.

Also since master Shr will be here soon people would rather save their money for his seminars than spend it to travel to the tournament.

flem

07-12-2004, 07:18 PM

WHAT! you didn't even shell out for photo's with the master's then??? LOL it's all such a sham... and a shame. just train and forget the hoopla, unless of course you go to the battle ax

18elders

07-12-2004, 07:38 PM

nope, no photos but we did have a nice conversation with Master Leung Shum.

Sang Feng Fan

07-12-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by RAF
Although I am not active in praying mantis, I've played it long enough to know what looks good. Sun De Long is Sun De Yao's older brother. I've had the pleasure of spending some time with him and he is well worth listening to or watching.

He was at the Arnold toournament in Columbus, Ohio but didn't get to demonstrate.

I am not sure if he is in New York now or went back to Qingdao. The last time he visited, he gave a seminar in New York.

Keeip your eyes open for a seminar or two when he is in the States.

Master Sun De Long returned to China this Sunday.

He came back to New York briefly to officiate at the ascension ceremonies of Wang Ren Angs most recent disciples.

Before he went to the Scrima tourni he held a staff seminar and a review for his last sabre seminar. I've met both he and Sun De Yao several times now and the level of skill and knowledge are impressive but I found that they were both equally patient teachers for those with limited to no Chinese language skills.

Sow Choy

07-13-2004, 05:10 PM

Hi Bro's & Sisters,

It was great to see alot of wah lum friends there, lots of good kung fu & competition, great demo... Master Harry Lo's school was awesome, can't get enough of the drum show, hope they do something like that again in the future...

But hey...

Any of you see our Lion Dance in the Masters demo? I hope you all enjoyed it... We had a great time, and perfomring the Lion Dance was alot of fun...

Take care...

Joe

yu shan

07-13-2004, 10:12 PM

Flem

Welcome back, hope you and your family are doing well. 18 came strong with the "why" we didn`t compete. But I tell ya, after witnessing Sun De Long, I would like not so much as to compete against others... but I still got it, and I`d like to get out there and get it on! I`m definitely going to take a team down for this next year, and I will participate... GOD willing. Are you coming down to Tampa for Shi Zhengzhong`s visit? Hope so!

Sow Choy

Man, I saw some awesome CLF at the tourney! You friend are in very good lineage. Master Lee Kwoon Hung will never be forgotten, I had the pleasure/honor to have learned "some" from this Man. I`ve tried to pattern my drumming after his... he was a great drummer, amongst many other attributes.

Sang Feng Fan

Thank you for this info, I appreciated Sun De Long`s movement.

Sow Choy

07-16-2004, 09:29 AM

Yu Shan,

Thanks for your kind words, yes I am very lucky, and GM Lee Koon Hung's drumming was pretty awesome, I think he trained quite a few Wah Lummers while at the temple when he 1st arrived. Whenever there is a performance I usually play for Sifus Mimi & Tu and sometimes GM Chan, and Sifu Tu has helped us out on the drums alot too..

There are quite a few who have trained both Wah Lum & CLF and we consider Wah Lum our family...

But just wanted to hear what everyone thought of our Lion performance as we have been doing Poles for the past year now, and have been very excited about the new ruotines... Hope you all enjoyed, and hope to see and meet some of you in Seattle or Texas....

Joe

Frogman

07-16-2004, 11:58 AM

The loin dance your school did was awesome. I like the two leg lion best, poor little guy had no butt. The pole work was great how long did you have to practice before you could do it with out falling?

RibHit

isol8d

07-16-2004, 12:14 PM

Indeed, the lions were quite skilled. My personal highlight of the whole Demo.

I did like the drumming by Sifu Harry Lo and his school, also top notch!

Sow Choy

07-16-2004, 12:24 PM

Hello,

For our 10 yr Anniv in Ft Laud 2003, I was planning our Internal Tournament and Banquet Demo... And I think we have done all that can be done on Benches and Pots so I asked some students to help me build poles. Our students couldn't get enough of them, and we have added more since the 1st set.

Now we are about to make some more reaching up to about 10 feet, just need to work out the issue of where to put them, since we have been using wood to keep the costs down, so they require supports and are not detachable.

We practice 2-3 times a week, about 3-4 hours every saturday, and there have only been 2 serious falls with minor injury. One time the kid on the shoulders took a fall, but the 1st thing I taught them is how to fall if things go wrong, but sometimes u never know...

Anyway, thanks again and I hope maybe next year we will have something more for you guys...

Peace,

Joe :)