Shaolin uniform

[wuwei]

wondering if anyone can explain the difference between the orange and gray training uniforms of shaolin.

[Shaolinlueb]

monks wear orange, disciples wear gray.
i think thats it.

[Pk_StyLeZ]

there no difference......

[MasterKiller]

Orange (saffron) is the traditional color for Buddhist robes, symbolizing renunciation.

[Scythefall]

Shi Xingwei was showing us the different uniforms. The lower level uniforms are shades of gray, starting at a blue-gray to a flat gray. They move into shades of yellow after a time. I think the book he was showing us those in was from a Hungarian temple. Shi Xingwei wears orange or gray. Probably whatever is clean, just like the rest of us. Heh:)

I wasn't too keen on the orange uniforms the first time I saw them years ago..but I'm fond of them now. Look forward to wearing one some day.

[blooming lotus]

that may be true for men but because women cannot legitamitly take orange ( or saffron) robes, all of the nuns and probably most koesherly female students as well all wear blue/grey regardless of level..

I saw some of these in DengFeng for no more than Y70, but to be honest I thought to take one was to devalue the sacredness of it....i may be alone in that point of view, but shaolin has been made trite too often by less than dedicated folks....I just didn't want to become one of them.....

[Scythefall]

I don't own any monk gear myself, but I think it would probably be okay to wear if you do so with the proper intent. I understand what Blooming Lotus is saying though, and I don't imagine myself going out and buying an orange set, unless Xingwei wants us to wear it in the future for a demo or something. I'd wear gray pants to work out though, because that's what color my black ones turn anyway. Heh:)

[GeneChing]

Robes are just robes - nothing sacred about that really. In fact, the origin of Buddhist robes was that the robes were supposed to be piecemealed together from the discarded clothes off cadavers. Sacred? It's zen, remember? If you meet the buddha, kill him. ;) In many schools of zen, it is common for the student to sew his or her own robe as they enter priest level.

Today, many shaolin students wear robes as a form of tribute, a way to honor our tradition. At Shaolin, you now see a lot of variation in robes. Traditionally, they are grey (http://store.martialartsmart.net/shaolstylwar.html) or orange (http://store.martialartsmart.net/shaolstylwar1.html) but I've seen white, black, even red. Personally I don't care for the red. But FWIW, the robes that I had made for me when I was in Bodhgaya are red (but they look a lot different than the Shaolin style robes).

[blooming lotus]

red is more theravda though right?

I undestand the whole "kill the buddha" concept, but you still gotta give some value to respect

[GeneChing]

The tibetans were red. I'm not sure why the robe maker went with red when I was at Bodhgaya, but I wasn't going to argue.

As for respect, are you saying that it is more respectful if it costs more? Now, I wouldn't go around wearing a long robe in the temple if that's what you mean, but I fail to see how a Y70 robe is less sacred than a $69.99 one (http://store.martialartsmart.net/shaolstylwar.html) or vice versa.

[blooming lotus]

that's not what I'm saying Gene..and for you to bring it down to the almighty$ when we're talking shaolin is both your livlihood and perogitive....
peace

[GeneChing]

Once again, I'm not clear about what you are saying. Robes are just clothes that we wear when we practice. As for the sacredness, look at the practice first, before you look what the practitioner is wearing. I, for one, love to stock up on robes whenever I go to Shaolin. They make great PJs.

[blooming lotus]

yes they do...but thats the idea of "uniform"...if everyone's wearing them they loose significance in distintion....no wonder shaolin has its' bar on for copyright

[GeneChing]

Now that brings up an interesting notion about uniforms. The root word of 'uni' means 'one' (like unicycle) and 'form' of course means 'form'. The original intention of a uniform in both martial arts practice or monastic practice was to look the same as the others - it's original intention was so that you did not distinguish yourself - sort of a dissolution of ego thing. With the martial arts, the belt system arose to establish a hierarchy, so you would look the same as your peers but be distinguished above your juniors. Now it's evolved into something outrageuos (http://store.martialartsmart.net/1133.html) - meant to be as distinguishing as possible - a full exposure of the ego in all it's glory.

So the notion of non-practitioners wearing robes could interesting on a personal ethics level, really only if people are wearing the robes pretending to be monks (then that karma is on them). However, any practitioner of Shaolin can certainly wear robes. The monks aren't attached to that at all - no buddhist should be really. There is a finer line here in the West where robes are more unusual as martial arts garb, but that's changing as Shaolin is rising. Soon I don't think this will be any kind of issue in the martial arts world, but now, it still can be.

In my latest article with Shaolin Monk Shi Decheng, we talk about wearing Shaolin robes, and he thinks it's great because it show they have an interest "the more people wear it, the more impressions". I'll try to get Rich Russell bring you a copy of this article - I'm sure you'll find that issue interesting.

[blooming lotus]

i'll be intrested to hear what both Rich and decheng have to say...it still doesn't change my view though...shaolin...as in the real deal ...no secular lived bs...the real deal...is a seriously rare and precious thing...even here in China...it's a big ask in totality and they we ch'an buddhists are mad......if everyone's wering these colours, I'm just going to go ahead and wear something else.........I agree, spread the word , even if it's it's only a few part time/ johnny come lately students of western worlds promoting awareness of shaolin by recognisable "costume"......but myself, I'm wearing whatever I deem appropriate..............and "uniform"...will not neccissarliy be what I'm talking about...especially when s you said Gene, we keepin mind detatchment....trite is trite an advertising is advertising.....que sera...'cause I aint like you...I'll guarntee it ;)

[Scythefall]

I did discover some monk gear I'm gonna have to have. Shi Xingwei had us playing hackey-sack the other night and my big billowy MC Hammer pants kept devouring the hackey sack. I suddenly had an appreciation for the leg wraps. Heh:) Wonder where I could get some...

[mantis108]

The monk orders, both Buddhist and Daoist, were under strict control since the time of first Emperor of Ming dynasty. There were 3 levels of ministries (mostly high ranking monks with official titles) to govern them. They have strict regulations on who, when, where, what is of the monk order. Identification papers were issued as well. So no one can fade it. The Jesuits, who came to China with the trading ships, also took upon the orange robe since that time if I am not mistaken. They operationed in Japan in the same uniform. I think the situation was either they complied with the law or they would not be allowed to spread their gosple or aide the trade.

Mantis108

[GeneChing]

blooming lotus - I met with Rich on Saturday - he had a layover in SF on his way to Phuket. I was with another Shaolin practitioner, and the first thing I said to him (after picking up on their conversation) is "don't go to Rich for fashion advice." Those who really know Rich, know what I mean. ;)

Scythefall - just go down to your local fabric store and buy some elastic bands. Very cheap and you can get whatever thickness feels good to you.

mantis108 - Do you have a source for that Jesuit story?

[richard sloan]

c'mon Gene you don't dig the orange fanny pack ensemble?

SYM had an interesting thing to say about the robes.

When he was young, they couldn't really wear them.

Then, when they could, he took them very seriously. He has said that to him, they were not just a uniform or a costume...

from time asia article:
"The monk's robe I wore on stage wasn't a costume to me," he explains. "I wanted to teach people Shaolin's traditions as they'd been taught to me. I wanted to do something real."

I like to see the patchwork ensemble of our robes after you have them for a few years you get all sorts of air conditioning vents and such.

I wish I had a dollar for every extra stitch I've had to re-sew.

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
... johnny come lately students of western worlds ...How long have you been studying Shaolin? And where do you come from? :rolleyes:

[blooming lotus]

actually, I've been studying buddhism in general for around 12 yrs...shaolin only 1 ish.........amognst many other theological and philisophical strains of belief..............

Gene....lol.......that guy gets around no??......tell me...the guy was in robes right..........

on the robes...each to their own ha....no judgement here...really...

[GeneChing]

like a bad virus... or an STD. :p
Seriously, I love Rich like a brother, but if you all only knew him like I do....:eek:

[blooming lotus]

lol........:p :cool:

If I'mstill here when he arrives, no doubt we'll hook up and exchange ...hmmm mmm....ahhh...stuff..thoughts :D

really it'll be a pleasure....actually, I'm really hoping that I'll still be here when you arrive in Aug/sep....maybe we'll chat soon ;) :cool:

[Chan Quan]

Forgive me if this is a frivolous question; I know a sash is only good for holding up your pants, but what do the different uniforms at the Shaolin Temple mean?

For example:

I've seen a blue or gray two piece outfit with a yellow sash, and an orange or saffron outfit with a black sash.

In the Discovery Channel documentary, they showed that the kung fu students who were not studying buddhism, wore a yellow uniform with a black sash.

What is the "dress code" as it were, for the Temple? Who wears what?

[doug maverick]

Forgive me if this is a frivolous question; I know a sash is only good for holding up your pants, but what do the different uniforms at the Shaolin Temple mean?

For example:

I've seen a blue or gray two piece outfit with a yellow sash, and an orange or saffron outfit with a black sash.

In the Discovery Channel documentary, they showed that the kung fu students who were not studying buddhism, wore a yellow uniform with a black sash.

What is the "dress code" as it were, for the Temple? Who wears what?

you live in nyc there are like five monks here. why don't u go to one of their schools and ask. probably get a better answer. some of them even teach budhism.try the one in queens.

[Chan Quan]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29996

[GeneChing]

Chan Quan, you answered your own question with an archival search. Good for you. The archives will answer many questions. Always search before you post.

We can catch fish for you all day, but if you learn to fish, then we can move on to other things... ;)

[Chan Quan]

Chan Quan, you answered your own question with an archival search. Good for you. The archives will answer many questions. Always search before you post.

We can catch fish for you all day, but if you learn to fish, then we can move on to other things... ;)

Absolutely! I love this forum!!! :)