Belts in KF?

[wuwei]

Is ther a belt system like karate in Kung fu?

[EarthDragon]

there can be depending on the school. it is a way of setting goals to reach nothing more.

[intimidation]

If the teacher organizes a system of sashes for his own school, then there is, but traditionally there is no ranks or belts

[wuwei]

so, traditionally in chinese MA, there are no belts?
I guess its for schools to bring in students and $..

[rogue]

I guess its for schools to bring in students and $.. Maybe, but arts like BJJ, Judo and JJJ have belts and I've never heard that accusation tossed at them. A belts meaning is what the association, school, instructor and finally the student want it to be. Always remember what Royce said.

[red5angel]

belts are largely, but not exclusively a western invention. not necessarily to bring in money, but to make martial arts advancement easier to see. They can be a good and a bad thing. Take them too seriously they are bad, use them as a tool then they can be good.

[Shadowboxer]

We only wear Sashes at test time. They just measure your progress. We know who is good and who is not by what they can do.

"I guess its for schools to bring in students and $.."

No, this is not why. I didn't start training to get sashes and the tuition has been the same since I started in March 2000. Test fees are only $30.

[EarthDragon]

Originally in japanese karate the belts that came with the uniform were white to hold the Gi together. after years of practicing they became dirty, and since they cannot be washed they darken with the more years you put in.

In WWII when karate was introduced to U.S they adapted the coloring system to give amercians a sense of rank, since americans are impatient and lazy compared to the japanese. and the colored belt system was born.

Another story goes when you have earned your BB and you tie and untie it several 1000 times the coloring wears off and becomes white again, hence you have gone full circle,

[rogue]

Originally in japanese karate the belts that came with the uniform were white to hold the Gi together. after years of practicing they became dirty, and since they cannot be washed they darken with the more years you put in.
In WWII when karate was introduced to U.S they adapted the coloring system to give amercians a sense of rank, since americans are impatient and lazy compared to the japanese. and the colored belt system was born.

Good lord what people will believe.:rolleyes: In karate there weren't any belts or gi. Check out early pictures of karateka and what they're wearing. You can thank Kano for the gi and the belt system, and Funakoshi who held Kano in high regard for adopting it in karate. Karate wasn't really introduced into the west until the late 1950's. I think Oshima was one of the first the teach here.

[EarthDragon]

rouge............... your wrong

the japanese gi was a tradtional uniform derived from the samurai. the belt or "OBI" was used to hold the sword.

karate was for the most part first brought back by the WWII marines in 1945. learn your history first.

[Shaolinlueb]

belts help motivate people cause westerners need soemthing to work to. who evber said that redangel5 i think, it right. also good for kids cause they have such short attention spans.

[Dim Wit Mak]

If I wanted my black belt in a traditional system where the white belt had to turn black, could I get my black belt quicker by sparring in the mud?:D

[Vash]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
rouge............... your wrong

Nope, he's so correct here that the facts are saying "don't hit me so hard, big daddy!"



the japanese gi was a tradtional uniform derived from the samurai. the belt or "OBI" was used to hold the sword.

Could be. But still, the modified Judo gi did not become part of the Okinawan practices until after Funakoshi's adopting/modifying it.


karate was for the most part first brought back by the WWII marines in 1945. learn your history first.

That part of my history knowledge is sadly lacking. Still, I most give another :rolleyes: to your "learn your history" when you're preaching these funny stories as gospel.


In WWII when karate was introduced to U.S they adapted the coloring system to give amercians a sense of rank, since americans are impatient and lazy compared to the japanese. and the colored belt system was born.

First, :rolleyes: . Second, the rank system was prevelant in most Japanese Budo, as well as many other cultural institutions, such as flower arranging and the Tea Ceremony which you mentioned on another thread.

[EarthDragon]

vash,
you said...............Could be. But still, the modified Judo gi did not become part of the Okinawan practices until after Funakoshi's adopting/modifying it.

First off judo is a modern sport not tradtional karate and not from Okinawa.
Secondly okinawian arts were formed much later than I am speaking of.
Thirdly Gichin funakoshi was the father of shotokan, not judo. As was Gogan Yamaguchi the father of modern Go ju Ryu. it seems as though you are a little confused

[Vash]

Not confused, but apparently confusing.

Funakoshi and Kano were contemporaries. Funakoshi admired the way Kano did his thang, and plus, he wanted to get his art to be accepted by the Japanese populace, so he adopted (and modified) the training uniform of the rather popular sport of the time, kano's art, Judo. [The modifications were to make the suit lighter.]

Yamaguchi is the founder, not of Modern Gojuryu, but Japanese Gojuryu. It's an excellent style, but obviously different from Miyagi's Goju teachings.

Anyway, the gi eventually made it's way to Okinawa, as did rank, the idea of being paid specifically for instruction in martial arts, things like that.

Okinawa was influenced by outside nations. Always has been. But, it remains a very distinct and very cool culture.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by intimidation
If the teacher organizes a system of sashes for his own school, then there is, but traditionally there is no ranks or belts

So basically backbreaker, you just said what Earth Dragon said, just worded differently.

[cerebus]

Heh, heh! Is backbreaker calling himself "intimidation" now? :p I think SOMEONE needs counseling for multiple personality disorder (among other things!:D ).

[MatT3T4]

We have a belt system in my school, and all it signifies is our progress. Belts mean so many things to so many systems, you can't put one definition on them. I don't care about belts, neither does anyone else in my school, nor does my instructor. It's just a way to show progression and time dedication. Hell, there is a belt test at my school today, and I am not testing, because I don't care to.

[Vash]

We have a belt ranking system at my school. people get "tested" when our instructor decides they've got a fairly strong grasp on the information and skills they're to which they've been introduced. The tests happen during regular class time, only difference being we place a great deal of attention on the testee.
If they perform on the same level as a student of the next rank, then they get the belt.

Costs a lot, though. i think the belts runa whole $5 after shipping. The actual testing doesn't garner an extra fee, even when it's done on a non-class schedule.

[Dim Wit Mak]

The testing that Vash describes sounds very fair and makes sense. I'd be willing to bet that if somebody screws up because of nerves or whatever, he just tests again and soon as he gets over the jitters.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by cerebus
Heh, heh! Is backbreaker calling himself "intimidation" now? :p I think SOMEONE needs counseling for multiple personality disorder (among other things!:D ).

So far this is at least his third name on the forum. His previous 2 got banned.

[rogue]

EarthDragon, does it take much effort and practice to be wrong so often, or is it a gift?


karate was for the most part first brought back by the WWII marines in 1945. learn your history first. Marines were bringing back karate the same year that the war ended? Can you explain how, and who taught which Marines? What rank did these Marines come back with? If I learned my history Gen. Doug banned the practice of most martial arts in Japan after the war. If I remember right Oshima established the first dojo in an LA shinto temple in 1955. Mas Oyama did some of the first demos in America in the mid 1950's. The first Ueichi Ryu dojo was started in 1958. Isshinryu, one of the main styles brought back by US Marines wasn't established until 1956. I know that Shimabuku was teaching in 1947 but I don't know if he was teaching Marines back then.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally in japanese karate the belts that came with the uniform were white to hold the Gi together. after years of practicing they became dirty, and since they cannot be washed they darken with the more years you put in.

LMAO! will this goofy myth ever end?

:rolleyes:

[cerebus]

Some people would say that the first Karate instructer in the U.S. was Robert Trias.

[Vash]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


LMAO! will this goofy myth ever end?

:rolleyes:

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EarthDragon]

rouge to EarthDragon, does it take much effort and practice to be wrong so often, or is it a gift?

I dont know rouge does it take much effort to and practice to be an a$$ or is it just a gift. havent we heard enough from you? wernt you banned by the adminisrtor? for trolling?

[Vash]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
I dont know rouge does it take much effort to and practice to be an a$$ or is it just a gift. havent we heard enough from you? wernt you banned by the adminisrtor? for trolling?

lol. E_D, you are the best. EVAR. Truly l33t w/$k!llz.

[rogue]

Forgot about Trias, but one sailor does not equal marines bringing karate back in 1945.

EarthDragon, given your spelling errors you must be gifted. Gotta go watch some Iron Chef to see the inability of Japanese chefs with French food.

[neit]

i feel rank-belts are neutral. they don't have much benifit, but also don't really do much harm either. in terms of aesthetics i think it looks nicer when everyone is wearing the same color of sash. i have seen many schools all red, but some yellow(clf?) and also white. all looked pretty sharp.

[EarthDragon]

Rogue,
You got me there! it's not my spelling, it's my typing skills.........they suck!

[Sho]

Visible ranks can be handy if you have a big organisation, because it's easier to tell (approximately) what techniques and concepts certain people are familiar with, especially during seminars with many participants.

[Ben Gash]

Bizzarely enough, there's evidence that Kano adopted his ranking system from a sash system used by european swimming clubs :eek:

[rogue]

Could be Ben. I've been seeing what could be clues that what we think of as "traditional" Japanese training is really European military training circa 1870's