sleight of hand

[foolinthedeck]

hello friends.

a thought occured to me recently about the relationship of wing chun to 'magic' and sespecially 'sleight of hand'. basic, what i was wondering was whether wing chun skill would increase your chances of either being successful at sleight of hand tricks or pick pocketing, or whether wing chun would be a good defence against it.

we all hear about people on subways etc who just turn around and notice that someone has distracted their attention and stole their bag / wallet / etc.

i would argue on limited experience of it that the kind of awareness, structure, relaxation and sensitivity developed by wing chun and chi sao would allow you to stop any pick pocketer or thief. In my experience once i was drunk and a guy reched for my inside chest pocket in my coat, my reaction was imediately to sober up, react, move to the centre if not to hit him and become extremely aware of the surroundings. also in the past people have tried to pickpocket my dad in madrid when i was walking behind him and i could intervene easily to stop them.

so i'm not talking about beating people up here, but just that i beleive we should have the sensitivity to detect someone stealing from us by slight changes in weight, pressure etc...

of course part of the effect of studying wing chun will be to place yourself in situations which are safer, carry wallets safely etc.

also, i wonder if a pick pocket would benefit from training in wing shun to develop his or her sensitivity - would a pickpocket be a natural student of chi sao? handling the relaxation easily etc?

any experiences and opinions valued.
thanks

[anerlich]

There's a couple of good articles by or about James Keating on the relationship between sleight of hand and knife fighting on the Alliance Martial Arts site and James Keating's own site. I can't link to them to check at work as the web security here blocks a lot of weapon-related sites.

It is generally argued that the tactile sense is more difficult to fake out than the visual, but as anyone who has done chi sao with a more proficient partner can tell you, it is far from impossible.

Oh, and grappling develops those senses at least as well as chi sao does.


would a pickpocket be a natural student of chi sao?

Maybe, but if they got caught doing it in our academy the results would be very unpleasant for them.

[Ernie]

Funny you should bring this up,
Last week I was talking about fight conditioning with Gary and he passed on a little story.
Said when he was preparing for his competitive fights back in the day, he sense of awareness and speed were extremely high. On day while on a bus a pick pocket stole his wallet, Gary said he barely felt a thing but his reflexes were so quick he reached back and caught the guy, asked him to return his wallet the guy said he didn’t have it, Gary proceeded to kick and punch him from one side of the bus to the other.
Until the guy turned over the wallet, then Gary tossed him off the bus.
What amazed Gary beyond his own quickness was that this pick pocket was very fast since he actually got the wallet and stashed it before Gary caught him, and this guy was tuff he took a real beating and even after he got tossed out of the bus jumped up and was screaming he was going to kill Gary

So maybe it works the other way around become a pickpocket and it will improve your sensitivity
:D

[Nick Forrer]

A good friend of mine who has been doing wing chun for around 8 years or so is a very good 'amateur' magician. He has a very high level of manual dexterity and can do all sorts of card tricks, complex shuffles, coin tumbling across his knuckles etc. He can also do touch juggling- remember the film labyrinth with david bowie and all that wierd stuff with the glass orbs- like that basically. He is also a very good guitarist/ bassist. He seems to pick thinks up like this v quickly- however I think that this is because he has the patience to sit down and practice these things as much as becuase of natural talent. Thus the talent lies in being able to practice the same thing over and over until you get it right without becoming frustrated along the way. Much like wing chun.:p

[Gangsterfist]

Interesting thread.

I have known some good theives. I knew a guy who always wore a trench coat whenever the weather would barely call for one, so he could steal. I think he was pretty much a clepto. He would tell us all his methods and how he employed them. He even stole cartons of cigarrettes (this was before they had to put them behind the counter in gas stations), multiple cartons. I don't know how he pulled it off, he was just a natural I guess. He would always tell us distraction is key to shop lifting and pick pocketing. Take their attention away from themselves and make your move. This kid was a couple of years older than me, and I think I was about 10 or 11 at the time. He wasn't a close friend, because I never felt I could trust him. Infact this kid really had no friends he just hung out with us on occasion.

Last year after playing a vigorous game of kickball w/ some friends of mine during a nice sunday afternoon, we all decided to go up to a local bar and have a few drinks. I had been in the heat and sun for hours running around and getting tackled in the dirt (we play full contact kick ball) so I was not smelling that great nor looking that great. This attractive young lady started talking to me out of the blue. Long story short she tried to pick pocket me at this bar. I knew something was up, it just didn't feel right. I caught her doing it, right in the act. I just told her to leave before I tell the bouncers she was lifting wallets and she left. The whole time she was trying to distract me though. After she left I wondered how many suckers she had under her belt, how many wallets she had stolen playing the cute flirty girl at the bars. I think her first mistake is she didn't wait for me to get drunk. If I had been more intoxicated she might have gotten away with it.

However, now I carry my wallet in my front pocket. Plus that way is also better for your spine.

[Edmund]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Long story short she tried to pick pocket me at this bar. I knew something was up, it just didn't feel right. I caught her doing it, right in the act. I just told her to leave before I tell the bouncers she was lifting wallets and she left.

TRANSLATION:
Gangsterfist threw away free head.

[Redd]

Originally posted by Edmund


TRANSLATION:
Gangsterfist threw away free head.

If she was trained Ernie style then G-Fist made the right move.

[Edmund]

Originally posted by Redd


If she was trained Ernie style then G-Fist made the right move.


Ernie gives bad head??
:p

[Ernie]

Ernie gives bad head

ha ha yep my teeth get in the way:D

[Gangsterfist]

If you replace the words "FREE" with the word "MY WALLET" then you might have been correct.