Merryprankster
05-17-2004, 10:26 AM
See the thread on the forum for background and why this should stay here....
The positives: Excellent western wrestling, including great pinning, emphasis on aggression. Willingness to pursue submissions. Did I mention the pinning? Submissions shown were for the most part sound and high percentage. Great emphasis on hip control and weight shifts to control opponent. In other words, focus is on good sound foundations - and that, quite frankly is as advanced as you get in any art!
The negatives: Tremendous lack of limb control on many entries which would likely lead to failed submission attempt due to lack of joint isolation. This is most likely because of their willingness to just go balls out on the submission, you miss, you flow. Lack of understanding of guard position both top and bottom blatant in approach to being in it and working from said position. I never once witnessed appropriate hip control here.
The unimpactful: ripping=fouling techniques=so what? Royce and Renzo vs. Sakuraba=so what? You take what you're given, no matter where you are. Tony Cecchine is clearly proud of what he's doing and that's nice, but he either misunderstands or intentionally misrepresents the guard and BJJ philosophy re: positioning and submission. There is no value added to doing that.
There is absolutely nothing unique about Catch the art or Catch the approach. The principles are all the same. The emphases are slightly different, but I've seen EVERY move on here, except the 'cold' entry into the step-over toe hold, and I don't do Catch or know anybody outside competitors that lay claim to Catch as a style. I am familar with the final position of the step-over toe hold, minus the crossface. The crossface is ridiculous. The other guy isn't going to lay there - he's going to push his arm off his face!!! The entry from the heel hook is much more plausible.
The lack of guard work and rudimentary approach to attacking the guard is very much understandible when you understand that having your shoulders on the ground like that was considered, most of the time, to be a pin. You lost. So nobody developed guard work because of a rule-based preference. I don't care what anybody else tells you, almost all western wrestling ended with the clean throw across the back (a few) OR the pinfall OR the submission. A very few matches may have been submission only, but almost all were either pin (defined as both shoulderblades touching the ground at the same time for a certain period) or submission. So submission holds were certainly useful, but guardwork would have been rare.
Because nobody developed guardwork, nobody developed very good ways of dealing with it. That makes a lot of sense, developmentally. Kinda like how since BJJ concentrates on the ground, and throws are only worth 2 pts, BJJ takedowns tend to suck.
Any way....useful. Sure. Why not. You'll get as much out of it as you put in. Special and Unique? Hardly. Most everything I saw was stuff I learned in High School wrestling....right down to some of the fouling tactics! Flow, weight, hips, creating and shutting space down at will. That's that....
BTW, if the dummy man grunts and groans one more time, I'm gonna shoot him.
The positives: Excellent western wrestling, including great pinning, emphasis on aggression. Willingness to pursue submissions. Did I mention the pinning? Submissions shown were for the most part sound and high percentage. Great emphasis on hip control and weight shifts to control opponent. In other words, focus is on good sound foundations - and that, quite frankly is as advanced as you get in any art!
The negatives: Tremendous lack of limb control on many entries which would likely lead to failed submission attempt due to lack of joint isolation. This is most likely because of their willingness to just go balls out on the submission, you miss, you flow. Lack of understanding of guard position both top and bottom blatant in approach to being in it and working from said position. I never once witnessed appropriate hip control here.
The unimpactful: ripping=fouling techniques=so what? Royce and Renzo vs. Sakuraba=so what? You take what you're given, no matter where you are. Tony Cecchine is clearly proud of what he's doing and that's nice, but he either misunderstands or intentionally misrepresents the guard and BJJ philosophy re: positioning and submission. There is no value added to doing that.
There is absolutely nothing unique about Catch the art or Catch the approach. The principles are all the same. The emphases are slightly different, but I've seen EVERY move on here, except the 'cold' entry into the step-over toe hold, and I don't do Catch or know anybody outside competitors that lay claim to Catch as a style. I am familar with the final position of the step-over toe hold, minus the crossface. The crossface is ridiculous. The other guy isn't going to lay there - he's going to push his arm off his face!!! The entry from the heel hook is much more plausible.
The lack of guard work and rudimentary approach to attacking the guard is very much understandible when you understand that having your shoulders on the ground like that was considered, most of the time, to be a pin. You lost. So nobody developed guard work because of a rule-based preference. I don't care what anybody else tells you, almost all western wrestling ended with the clean throw across the back (a few) OR the pinfall OR the submission. A very few matches may have been submission only, but almost all were either pin (defined as both shoulderblades touching the ground at the same time for a certain period) or submission. So submission holds were certainly useful, but guardwork would have been rare.
Because nobody developed guardwork, nobody developed very good ways of dealing with it. That makes a lot of sense, developmentally. Kinda like how since BJJ concentrates on the ground, and throws are only worth 2 pts, BJJ takedowns tend to suck.
Any way....useful. Sure. Why not. You'll get as much out of it as you put in. Special and Unique? Hardly. Most everything I saw was stuff I learned in High School wrestling....right down to some of the fouling tactics! Flow, weight, hips, creating and shutting space down at will. That's that....
BTW, if the dummy man grunts and groans one more time, I'm gonna shoot him.