The first step

[Buddy]

Because I seem to be developing a reputation here as a curmudgeon (ok azzhole) I want to share a bit. This is not Gao style proper but more Bruce Frantzis stuff. Same thing, different method.
In my opinion the first thing a beginning student needs to learn is how to move the body as a complete unit. This is done by focusing on using the hips to move the body. Now realize this is waigong. Most styles have this. Some nanquan styles like WC, SPM, WE, etc concentrate only on the waist I think.
Anyway, BKs method is to use a neigong training method. Gao style uses the tiangong I mentioned earlier.
If you stand in neutral stance about shoulder width and shift your weight very slowly side to side, you will yourself moving from your upper body if you are a beginner. Concentrate in relaxing your body weight downward and move only from your hips. Imagine a rectangle from the fold of your shoulders to the fold of your hips. Keep, very religiously, this rectangle perfectly level. Get a friend to check it. If you think you are doing it right in the beginning, I assure you you are not. Get someone to put their hands on your shoulders and hips and see. When you can move the whole body, centered around the hips, all at once simply side to side, you are doing neigong. This is not the only way or even the quickest way of getting it. You can also just change bow step to bow step smoothly. But I recommend it. Remember this is only the very beginning. OK enough typing. If you have questions I will do my best. If you don't then that's it. If you were here it would take you a good while before you could do this to my (or your) satisfaction.
Good practicing,
Buddy

[Midnight]

Actually, I think this is a good idea.

You do realize however, with this post being called 'The first step', I'll expect a second and third :)

[Buddy]

Well.... OK but it's easier for anyone to read Kumars first book as far as this basic stuff goes. If you don't want to I'll give my take on it here but realize it's a lot of typing. What's the verdict?

[Midnight]

Topics and ideas such as the ones you presented here, help bring about further discussions and ideas.

Thats how forums flurish.

Keep'm coming, you might help open up the community to larger discussions.

Do not forget what you hoped to accomplish in your challenge thread. Sometimes in order to get the water moving, you must be the one to cast the first stone.

[Thundermudd]

Buddy,
I think that what you have posted here is a good thing. It points people in the right direction in regards to training 'internally'. I definately think the key starting point with any IMA is body integration. Whether it BK's methods or Old Man Gao's, a starting point is a starting point.
As far as myself, I'm doing Gao style right now (and will probably be doing it forever cause I suck;) ). I have noticed major changes in the way my body moves since I have been doing tiangong pieces. I must admit though; it is not anything near what I thought it would be when I started about 3 years ago. The concept of moving without holding anything while remaining dropped inside the kua is still whooping my a$$!
Thanks for putting up a thread with some good pointers!

Chris

[Buddy]

Thanks,
Do you want me to continue along this vein or go right to something more advanced? Like I said most of what I write about beginning stuff is in Kumars book, but I don't know that noobs will/have read it. It would be a disservice if they did harder stuff w/o having a firm base in the basics.

[CD Lee]

So far so good. Please do continue. In your example of shifting, then you would also say to keep the head perfectly level too right?

[Buddy]

Yes,
Take the idea of the torso (shoulders to hips) as a box. You want to align the inguinal fold (kua) and the "nests' of the shoulders. This is area just to the inside of where the shoulder joint is. Also TRY always to keep this area relaxed (very difficult when pushing).
The tendency for most people is to move from the shoulders rather than the hips. It really is a good idea to use a partner to tell you when you are moving from the hips or shoulders. You must be very strict with yourself with all of this. Also my experience is that most people tend to lean back when doing standing practice. For many of you, standing correctly will feel like you are leaning forward.
So when you get to the point that you can move from the hips and keep everthing aligned you can start turning. When you have shifted the weight 80-90% onto one leg, and keeping a firm connection with the unweighted leg, turn the relaxed, aligned torso, from the hips about 45 degrees or so into the weighted leg. Be careful to not allow the knee to collapse inward. Then turn back to the front. Then shift to the other side and repeat. So the process is shift, turn, turn, repeat. Please do this very slowly being very strict with the alignments and origin of movement. Please note all of this presupposes that you understand how to do standing practice, which also has some fairly stringient requirements.

[CD Lee]

Very similar to what I have done in the past. Great great training excersice. Of course this is as you say, the first steps. I was one who found to stand truly straight, felt like I was leaning forward for a while, until I got used to actually standing straight. Funny you mention that...

At some point, you can have a partner lean firmly on you as you do the shifting, and you should very effortlessly be albe to shift him over keeping everything just as you said. This is a great way to keep from letting tension in your upper body to do any pushing against an opponent.

[BPW]

Very useful training tips, Buddy. Thanks for sharing.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Buddy.

Keep it coming. Good stuff.

I have found many teachers that don't emphasize the basics enough or only go into details too late and by than a LOT needs to be unlearned.

[omarthefish]

I have a question that I've been really banging my head against the wall for the past year about now. Not specifically directed at Buddy but the exercise made me think of it yet again.

Just how exactly to you ever get beyond the "frame".

As wonderfull as this exercise is, it is still an exercise to develope your frame. I've been taught that no matter how finely refined your frame is, that is still 'external'. The only specific exercises I've got, points of practice really, are the reverse dan tien breathing and more recently and more difficultly, training the eyes.

I'd be curious about anything to train the eyes specifically. I still tend to glance about a bit when I check my posture.

[Buddy]

Ok I will continue later but I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to really get using the hips and not the waist in the turning. If you think you have it you don't. I taught a class tonight for one of my senior students. Invariably they moved from the shoulders and not the waist. Now I should say do you really need to be so strict if you just want to develop internal power? Frankly, no. You can get by with a bit of fudging. But truly folks I'm not just interested in fighting. If you are very strict with this you might find that it changes you somewhat. It's neigong and not just wugong.

Omar,
I don't believe that training the frame is external. It is however prerequisite to where i'm going with this. To develop a relaxed aligned with gravity frame is paramount in my IMA. As far as the eyes go...This is a beginning gazing practice but will still sound a bit esoteric.
You allow everything you see to come back into your eyes then relax the eyes. You are still seeing but not holding onto what you are seeing. Does that make sense? We tend to project our vision and there ways of doing that but this is like dissolving what comes in. Not going crosseyed and diffusing your vision but just bringing in what you see and relaxing your eyes. I don't know, try it and report back.
Good night,
Buddy

[omarthefish]

I'll play with it for a few days. Thanks. Very interesting suggestion. Where I'm at right now it doesn't sound esoteric at all. I said I've been "banging my head against a wall" for a year now but I've been working on bagua for more like a decade. It's just that only in the past year do I think I've really had any kind of sense of what was really internal. Before that, I was still just equating it with skeletal alignment and such. Now I've got a teacher who has REALLY challenged my ideas about what internal is and shown me that all the stuff I thought was internal was really more like you said, just prerequisites.

One of the things he gets on me for from time to time that no other teacher has is my eyes' 'shen'. Other people have taught me where to look or how to do eye fakes etc. but attcking me for not displaying enough 'shen' in the eyes is a new one and it strikes me as some kind of real important key to the whole thing.

g'nite. I'm on my lunch break here though.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(Just how exactly to you ever get beyond the "frame")

By not using it but being aware of it.
If your not aware of it, you can become trapped by relying on it intead of timeing and ablility to change.

If your aware of it, you can understand how softness and change with an aware mind can lead others to emptiness with out recourse to speed or strength....

[omarthefish]

**** Leaf, good post.

I sat down to write a response and then I got delayed because trying to think about how that applies and how the HECK am I supposed to DO that put me into a deep trance and I realized I have nothing to say. :(

Makes me wish I was doing push hands these days. It also makes me really think about how this applies to my current training.

[CD Lee]

Buddy you said


Ok I will continue later but I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to really get using the hips and not the waist in the turning.


Can you explain what you mean by this statement in more detail? Explain if you will, what you mean by turning as well. Be sure to describe the footwork in this as well, especially when comparing waist and hips. Thanks.

[Buddy]

CD writes: Can you explain what you mean by this statement in more detail? Explain if you will, what you mean by turning as well. Be sure to describe the footwork in this as well, especially when comparing waist and hips.


CD,
First off, there is no footwork. We are standing in a shoulder to hip width stance, feet parallel, knees unlocked, weight sunk into the feet. We have very few options when turning the body. I will say around its central axis but truly my experience is that this is too fine a detail for beginners. Chief amongst our options is to turn either from the hips or from the waist. Again I encourage you to use a partner. Define for yourselves what it means to initiate your movement from these two areas. You MUST in the beginning move the hips to move the torso. AND you must move everything else at the same time. The waist we will get to but not yet. Is that clear? If not please ask a more specific question so I can know what you want to know. I don't mind.
Next. By turning I mean... we shift the weight to one leg and turn the torso by using the hips and keeping the torso moving as a unit in that direction. In other words if I shift to the right I turn my body 45 degrees or so to the right toward the now weighted leg. Does that make sense?
Buddy

[shawnsegler]

Thanks for the info Buddy.

You have reafirmed my faith in the value of the internet for the moment.

Posts like this are what keep my powder dry.

S

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As a side note, i find it useful to point out to my students that they should press their knees outward very slightly.. just enough to feel a little tension on the outer thighs.. this tension serves several purposes.. it sends quite a bit of feedback as to weight distribution and hip position, it generates "friction" between muscle and bone thereby generating a charge/Qi, and it highlights Kua status.. we tend to use the legs a pumps, pumping energy into the hips/waist.. an awareness of the sacral connection to the more limber spine is elemental in transfering energy into the upper body with any degree of continuity.. a common error is to break the sacral/lumbar connection as we lead our intention with the DanTien.. DanTien movement is internal, yet visible to the trained eye.. it is the hand on the "handle" of the whip.. the handle is the sacral/lumbar connection..

To get a high degree of feedback on this, try standing two standard house bricks on end shoulder-width apart, wide sides facing each other.. then, take a WuJi stance on the bricks and repeat Buddy's turning exercise.. we do several silk-reeling exercises in this manner.. for a bigger challenge, stack two bricks end on end.. heck, just mounting the bricks for the WuJi stance is a lesson in alignment and balance..

Be well..

[Buddy]

No more comments or question? I am not enclined to write more. Please don't just expect me to. There is more but I am only going to write if there is interest. Either way...

[8gua]

bricks.....ymaa exercises no?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Yes.. however, i have been using 4"X4" wood blocks and stacking them 3-4 high.. Dr. Yang introduced me to the exercise about 4 years ago and i find it very beneficial..

Buddy: in the turning i notice that i am storing spiral energy in the yang leg (with proper knee alignment), is this similar to your experience? At what point do you release the waist, either in application or as in a silk-reeling movement?.. Does the "rectangle" include the hollow chest concept?..

Be well..

[Buddy]

Please forgive me if I address these issues one at a time. I mean nothing by it. It just helps me to organize my thoughts (sorry Fpow)

First off I don't use the bricks or anything like that. I'm probably never going to be in a position where bricks are involved. Maybe it's good but I'd rather spend my time in other areas. YMMV.


"Buddy: in the turning i notice that i am storing spiral energy in the yang leg (with proper knee alignment), is this similar to your experience?

Bob, I understand your question, but perhaps folks without your experience wouldn't. Does that make sense? Normally I wouldn't want to talk at all about how the the legs twist (luo xian jin). Why? Because, based on my experience Westerners store a lot of crap in their soft tissue. I've seen this as a part time body worker( I've had a little training but only that). BTW, me too. But yes to answer your question. Otherwise the weight shifts and stores into the weighted leg (duh, Buddy)

"At what point do you release the waist, either in application or as in a silk-reeling movement?..

Bobby Bobby,
You DO ask good questions. Let me answer your first question first. In the exercise you don't involve the waist. Period. OK?

Now. Application (I know what you mean by SR but...maybe others don't) so I will try to address both issues. With SR and apps. it's a matter or skill and experience. Does that make sense? The answer is, and I hate to write this openly, not because it's some great secret but because that noobs will do this before getting real good basic training. If you haven't been doing this for at least three years dont. Or ask your teacher, or write me personally. Please, don't go wrong where I did.
OK here it is. The hips control the whole body. The waist controls the hips. Bob I never really release the waist , it always stores, even as it releases. IOW, I can 'fa" and be ready for the next 'fa' Make sense?

Does the "rectangle" include the hollow chest concept?..

Bob,
I think I know what you mean. But again some guy from Peoria might not. I want to answer your question and I will but if you could phrase it so that noobs might understand it? I will explain my version in great detail. I'm sorry to be a stickler at this but we have agreat opportunity here. We can actually try to expalin what it is we are talking about so nooone gets cheated. Wasn't around when I was young.

Be well..

[BAI HE]

GIVING THE GOOD STUFF AWAY FOR FREE....

Yer a good man Tripp.

[Buddy]

Pete,
You don't even have to ask for it. You know that, mi casa su casa.
Hey it's not like you are going anywhere, bra.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

LOL.. i know, i guess i'm trying to lead the dialogue a little too far..

Regarding the waist, an analogy i like is those stupid (never got one that worked) paddle-ball things.. the paddle with a rubber string and rubber ball attached.. even when the ball was returning and the string was loose, the string was preparing for the next extension/recovering its stored energy.. the waist (DanTien) is always ahead of the frame, leading it.. and, as the frame arrives the Dantien is already on to its next adventure..

Regarding the "hollow chest".. does this exercise include elements of Peng.. is it appropriate to "float the breath" during the transition of direction (lung peng).. (i love that phrase)..

FWIW, the bricks (wood blocks for me) will highlight inappropriate connections with the ground (they fly out from under your feet).. they also force you to reach your energy further downward to find stable ground, then.. when you are on stable ground, the training of "reaching" permits a much deeper and more stable rooting..

Be well, and good dialogue :)

[Buddy]

Bob,

"Regarding the "hollow chest".. does this exercise include elements of Peng.. is it appropriate to "float the breath" during the transition of direction (lung peng).. (i love that phrase).."

When you say 'hollow chest' are you referring to the Chinese phrase, and forgive my poor Pinyin, 'han xiung ba bei'? This is often translated as something like 'sink the chest and raise the back' Let me give my take on the phrase. Raise the back means to lift the skull off the spine and open up the occiput. Sink, or hollow the chest, let me explain by way of example. If I put my palm on your chest it should, when you release tension in the chest, slide down like snow sliding off a roof on a warm day. Does that make sense? The combination of these two actions opens up the back and more importantly the front of the spine. And if by Peng you mean the supporting jing then yes this is present with this phrase.
However that is more an issue of standing practice which I haven't discussed but I am certainly willing to. Actually it is precursor to this material. The exercise I am discussing is more one to start to develop whole body motion centered on the hips. Sorry, I don't know what you mean by 'float the breath'. Except if one is doing a particular breathing method, and as this is mostly for beginners I'm not going to discuss that just yet, it's best to just breathe naturally. Again I am willing to, but too much too soon is just a distraction.
Buddy

[CD Lee]

Buddy, sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Thanks for the info. I gotta tell you man...we do that very exact excercise for our begginers, the side to side, then adding the turning, then of course, we start adding arms, and seeing how the body movement can move the arts with the body, how to make circles with the body, etc. All this of course takes time, and we do not do all this at once. I still do these type exersices even though it has been years since learning them. Great stuff.

You say this comes straight out of Kumar's book?

[Buddy]

"Buddy, sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Thanks for the info. I gotta tell you man...we do that very exact excercise for our begginers, the side to side, then adding the turning, then of course, we start adding arms,"

Ah Cd,
I haven't added the arms yet. That is going to be much more difficult to write about. I hope you will comment, when I try to give my own take on it. Leo and Bai He (Pete) please talk about how this changes the exercise.
I'll give my brief take. Addng the arms makes it much more difficult to just concentrate on the hips.


and seeing how the body movement can move the arts with the body, how to make circles with the body, etc. All this of course takes time, and we do not do all this at once. I still do these type exersices even though it has been years since learning them. Great stuff.

You say this comes straight out of Kumar's book?"


Mmmm, no. Not str8 out of the book. I don't think you'd find anything I say contradicted in there. And I'm fairly certain if you called him and said," Is Buddy full of ****?"... he would say no, he represents what I represent fairly accurately.. He can read all this if someone sends it to him. While I'm no longer associated with his group directly, I can only give credit where credit is due. Kumar is Kumar but IMO, particularly when I learned from him, the material is first rate. He was teaching some seriously good stuff, and he himself was a baddasss win or lose.
B

[CD Lee]

No problem Buddy. Sorry to get the cart ahead of the horse there with the arms. Depending on how busy I get, sure I will stay engaged on this conversation, since this is finally some good stuff. I often wonder, however, if any people actually take stuff like this, the very basics, that currently do not know how to do it, and go work on it to really get it.

I mean, and you obviously know this, that this kind of stuff IS the art. So any practice in these basics is time well spent.

One more thing to add here minus the arms. Still standing feet parallel. While shifting the weight, and turning, continue to always lift from the spine/crown, while sinking the root staying relaxed. That usaully goes out the door the first time you add any new piece of movement. But it gets back in there after some reminding.

Ahhhh, also, it is imperitive of course, that the knees do not flex to the inside or outside during the shifting. The knees must remain over the feet, otherwise you will injure those knees over time. Like driving a car out of alignment. No big deal until 10K miles later and your tire has been half worn down by the friction.

[BAI HE]

Adding the arms is rather difficult at first.
It seems as if "intention" immediately goes to the arms and
people start turning the waist instead of the hips.
At least that was the key for me.

The arms only move and rotate in a fixed manner up and down (in exact opposites).
Only the hips truly move and shift. Very important is that everything moves and stops at once.

I hope this helped a bit.

[CD Lee]

Agreed on the 'intention'. It goes to the arms at first, and the tempation is to try to move the arms in a disonnected fashion.

Who wants to start on the differences between moving the hips in this excersice, and the waist, and what that all means? I would like somone to expound on that some.

[BAI HE]

The hips inolve "whole body" power by engaging the legs.
While the waist, after the proper basic training, can increase the range of structural power, once the body is properly aligned and open. The longer and looser the pelvis and the hips? The more the waist can extend the torso, extend the structure and issue good "rooted" power.

When you see the pics of Bagua Masters, twisted this way and that and are still properly aligned, that's what we're talking about.

They are "open" and coiled.

I guess after a serious amount of time put in, the body creates a lot of "space" tendon, joints and most importantly fascia are properly stretched and lubed (sinovial fluid), these coiled postures are rather simple and relaxed and structurally sound.

From personal experience, I know that my body and most especially my spine is stronger and much more flexible than years of study in other arts. Keep in mind I practice no static stretching
on a consistent basis.

BaGua prepares the body for BaGua and everything runs together and augments itself. That's why I love the basics. That's why my teacher beats the basics into our heads all the time.

Hope this helps and I hope Buddy swings by to
check my logic here.

[BAI HE]

Oh, that was the theory part.

One exercise Buddy had me do with the "Shift and Turn" was to
put your palms together at Dan Tien, clasp the firngers together and use the to index fingers to make a "Guide". Make sure they are in a straight line with your nose.

Shift the weight to one leg using the hips only and turn the spine
as the Kua opens. The "pointer" or guide at Dan Tien will naturally turn and open. Keep your nose and "straight" spine completely in line with the pointer. You have now just rotated your "axis" if you have kept your spine completelt in line and done all the shifting and turning in your hips.

Think of your spine as a big antennae, from the tailnone to the crown of the skull.

[GaryR]

I enjoy cleaning jockstraps. Does anyone here have some for me?

[BAI HE]

No. That's the hokey pokey. You don't "put your leg out".
Think natural posture, feet shoulder width apart. Shift weight using nothing but the hips.

[BAI HE]

I have to sign off now. Hopefully Buddy will be back to clarify or correct anything that I may be off base on.
He asked me to chime in, and these are my personal observations while under his tutelage. I think I have a fairly sound grasp of the basics as Buddy teaches them. Until he
gets back< we'll tread some water...

See you bums tommorrow;) :cool:

[Buddy]

Pete's got the right of it. God this is satisfying. Of course now he'll have to worry about "sucking at a higher level". Seriously it is as he descibes. And BTW this isn't really baguazhang per se because there a lot of different styles out there that do much different jibengong. It's my way based on how I was taught at one time. It works for me and seems to work for my folks. But really it's neigong and it's had some interesting effects, not all martially related. We are, as a school, totally dedicated to Yizong bagua, particularly of the Qian Kun school. But we do a couple of other things to that enrich our lives, I think.
Pete carry on please. Leo?
Buddy

[LeoV]

Cr*p. I usually just peruse this board once in a while. And of course Buddy draws me out on an exercise that I have difficulty with. :D

The advice I would add:

1. As mentioned before, that feeling of "expansion" needs to be engaged at all times. What I see sometimes is people get focused on the weighted leg that they are shifting onto, that they forget the other leg. Keep expansion there.

2. People go beyond their hip frame/structure. What happens? You engage the waist. You need to stay within your body's hip frame/flexibility. I always tell the new guys not to compare themselves to others, because everyone is different. I see everyone thinking the goal is to be able to stretch to the side (beyond 45 degrees) which is not the case. You want to isolate your hips and just learn how to shift.

3. People go too fast. Slow down! This isn't a race, it's a drill on developing a certain type of movement. Some people do it too fast and they miss everything.

I'll swing by more often and add what I can.

-Leo

[BAI HE]

Just to add to Leo's expansion thought:

When you shift to the weighted leg make sure to keep structure
in the empty leg. Do not let that knee collase or leg go limp.
If you do this, when you begin to turn you'll feel the soft tissue and fascia of the oppisite leg twist and tighten (or spiral) around the bone.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Indeed, most people "fall" onto the Yang leg.. rather than control a shifting of weight by pressing with the Yin leg to shift onto the Yang leg.. Falling has no purpose or intention, using a Yin leg press keeps the structure focused.. of additional interest is the "pelvic tilt", most easily effected by trying to push the MingMen outward.. the pushing outward will engage the Psoas (internal muscles that connect the spine to the pelvis).. getting familiar with the usefulness of the Psoas can allow a more relaxed DanTien (abdominal) area..

I have been trained to store the energy into the Yang leg as spiral energy, permitting controlled 3 dimensional movement.. acting like a spring that is wound rather than compressed.. i fully understand the dangers of improper alignment when storing spiral energy and don't recommend spiral energy play until comfortable with linear and circular energies..

Be well..

[LeoV]

TCB - Good description about people falling into the Yang leg.

Ulitimately all what we train for is to have complete control of our body and body motions. High level body control starts with working on the small things, like this shift and turn isolating the hips. I want to ingrain control at the lower levels, so that when I'm moving, I don't have to think about it. :)

[Buddy]

I've been wicked busy but a small comment. Next time I'll try to write more about the next step. Bob's right. If fact watch people walk. They throw themselves forward. No control of the weight. BTW really the next step is to just shift and turn in a smooth and continuous motion. And as bob and Leo said keep the intent in the yin leg. Press into the yang leg to open the kua.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Yes, LOL.. most westerners walk as a semi-controlled fall forward, repeatedly throwing a leg in front of the fall to catch themselves.. I used to belong to the Henry David Thoreau Sauntering Club, a group of philosophically minded folks that took strolls through parks and such while discussing matters of the mind and spirit.. one of the focuses was good solid "Taiji Walking" (though they didn't know it as such).. each forward step was taken as though you were stepping onto a frozen pond, committing no weight, testing to see if the ice would support your weight, then.. shifting your weight slowly and steadily onto the forward foot until a complete weight shift is effected to the forward foot and repeated as necessary.. our strolls were slow and aimless.. the conversations pleasant and insightful..

At least once a week we do Taiji Walking drills, several traverses of the school focusing on the footwork common to the Brush-knee pattern.. it's quite amazing how complex the act of walking can be.. particularly when involving a total body movement..

Be well..

[CD Lee]

Yep Bob, great description. Our Sifu had us go to the mall (told us to in good faith) and watch folks walk to see the various methods. I gotta say, around 80% at least are 'fallers'. They just fall onto that other leg over and over.

What I like are the side to side 'leaners'. They are usually overweight a good bit, and wadle or lean significantly to the side every single step. Plus the head bobs up and down.

I used to march in marching bands when younger, and we had to, of neccessity, learn a stepping method from the older students that would allow your head to remain positively level at all times, so you didn't bust up your lips on your instrument.

[BAI HE]

LOL at the western walk. When I began my studies my shoulders were around my ears, legs stiff and back tight. This has changed and now I have a loose balanced relaxed lope. I'm usually in pretty good structure and everything moves together.

I was explaining to a new student last week that one of the benefits of IMA is what I like to think of as "energy conservation". I'm not fighting gravity anymore, hence all these little subsystems one unconciously uses when engaging in "bad postural" habits are erased through proper alignments in motion and stillness.
I am no longer wasting the "energy" through the unconcious effort to remain upright and moving.

So many folks use muscles that really shouldn't be involved in these processes IMO. Why tense up your shoulder and crane your neck forward? They don't aid in the process of walking just as locking your knees out when standing?The good strong core muscles as developed by solid IMA practice are all the ones you need for basic living tasks.

Once that energy drain is no longer a part of psycho-physical
conditioning or nuero-muscular tension? You'll naturally have extra energy. At least I find that to be my situation.
I've become a much more efficient organism.

But then I waste it on too much Fa...

But that is another tale.

[CD Lee]

BH - Yes, I checked my waist and hips with my fingers as guides, and I have been using my hips all along. Whew! You guys scared me for a minute. At the end of any movement using the hips, then the hips can coil a little further as I think you said. I love these coiling movements, as for me, they make my back feel great.

As far as the intention in the leg we are shifting away from. Something I think you guys may have heard before that is really nice, is thinking of the other or 'yin' foot as a suction cup, sucking onto the ground. It keep the other leg alive with intention without muscular stress.

Are we really discussing good stuff on KFO forum? Well if you guys will, I will. Usually, to be very honest, I am here for fun only. But hey, every once in a while, you see good stuff, or you can help with a comment here and there.

[Walter Joyce]

Great thread Buddy, et al.

[Buddy]

So from here we want to involve the arms. This is where it really gets tough not to involve the waist. The first thing I suggest is that you hold the arms out parallel, and just there is no mistake here i mean the same distance between the wrists and elbows, with the shoulder blades spread, elbows about a fist distance in front of the body. Maybe with the palms facing like Taiji ruler. Don't move them just keep them this way while you shift and turn.

[CD Lee]

Ok Buddy, been doing this one. Very nice drill. Ready for the next step...

I see that you have taken the waist and spine twisting out by keeping the arms/palms at equal distance during the movement.

[Buddy]

Alright lets switch gears. Since we're going to bring the arms into it, let address that. Most of you have done the "tree hugging stance" So what's that mean? Well, a lot that I cant get into right now. Suffice to say you want to get a lot of room inside the body and the first step is to get it between the shoulder blades. Pete and Leo?
So we almost always want to keep a constant angle in the body. This is 45%. So what if the limb is streched out? About 125% or so. Truly this is the best angle to keep structure. So starting with hand at about dantien level at the side (trouser seam) and just drill (chuan) upward keeping that shape of the arm. Do it just in a hirse stance. Then just use one arm in the shift and turn. Then one arm in the shifting and turning. Then in a horse stance do both arms. The lowering arm bring the rising arm up. Then combine. This should take a couple of months. I guaren****tee you if it doesn't you are doing it wrong. The waist CANNOT move in this exercise. If it does you're doing it wrong. Read Bruce Frantzis' book on Opening the Energy Gates and I will explain it to you.
Buddy

[Paul_E]

WOW! Sorry, I can't say that I understand much of what is being said but I had to mention that this is the most eloquent that I have ever seen Bai He post. It was beautiful...(not making any comments on his intelligence or anything it just came out of the blue). It's like that movie Old School, where Will Ferrell debates that guy from Crossfire.

Ok, you can go on with your discussion.

Paul

[BAI HE]

I have my moments...:D

[LeoV]

"Suffice to say you want to get a lot of room inside the body and the first step is to get it between the shoulder blades."

- Developing space in your body is very important. Lots of people keep tension in their bodies, particularly in their shoulders and back. What's a good way to feel the shoulder blades separate is to just stand, with your arms down. Have someone put their hands on your shoulder blades and push out (not in, just out). That way you can feel how the blades separate. Keep in mind like anything else, you don't want to force this. Over time and practice it will fall naturally into place.


"...just drill (chuan) upward keeping that shape of the arm. Do it just in a hirse stance. Then just use one arm in the shift and turn. Then one arm in the shifting and turning. Then in a horse stance do both arms. The lowering arm bring the rising arm up. Then combine."

- Keep your frame. Don't use the waist as Buddy has mentioned. This is all hip motion, as with the first part of this thread. Also another thing to keep in mind is that the drilling hand does not cross the centerline. Also do this slowly. You get 1000 times more benefit doing it slowly than quickly.

"This should take a couple of months. I guaren****tee you if it doesn't you are doing it wrong. The waist CANNOT move in this exercise. If it does you're doing it wrong. Read Bruce Frantzis' book on Opening the Energy Gates and I will explain it to you."

- Yep, none of this stuff is magic. It is work. Do it everyday.