energy vs. technique based wing chun

[John2004]

There was some discussion in a previous thread about
energy vs. technique based wing chun.

How is the energy based one used in chi sao, drills and
sparring?

[reneritchie]

Sounds like sci-fi.

[anerlich]

Sounds like a false dichotomy, like the Principles vs Techniques one. Both are two sides of the same coin.

BTW, I watched a John Travolta interview on monday night - he said Scientology is based on mastery of Time, Space and Energy ... gotta be careful of any associations these days, or that they might come after you for copyright or trademark violation.

[russellsherry]

hi john, most of us in wing chun ,try to develop a kind of forward force,in chi sua, this teaches, us where your partner moves or when he is going attack, later at a advanced level their are different , kinds of energy, such , as ***ing and yun ging in which
are taught at advancedl leval thi is not chi though peace russellsherrry

[russellsherry]

hi john the computer must have thought i said something else it was fa ging energy a kind of exposive force peacerussellsherry

[Sam]

In Fut Sao Wing Chun we utilize energy through sensitivity in Chi Sao. What some systems do is use forward pressure in order to penetrate the opponent. Fut Sao uses internal energy to create a false or moving (flexible) bridge. The opponent thinks he knows where you are when actually he is sensing your impulsive energy and not your physical movement.

[Simon]

definitely can't have one without the other - correct technique with the wrong energy behind it? doesn't make any sense.

I think a lot of people like to make cool sounding words to describe the force you exert in a motion (from the ground to your opponent or through a torque/inertia relationship). Chi to the Chinese covers air/energy from respiration/applied force or impulse/ etc, etc just like snow to us is 20 different words to eskimos? (is that correct) hopefully you can see my attempt at an analogy?

Every area of interest has people trying to sound cool - imagine a w@nky New York modern art scene :p there's those sorts everywhere. I think there is more intelligence putting ideas into words that everyone has a chance at understanding

[Ernie]

I use re chargeable batteries
:)

[Miles Teg]

For me it is something that is a big part of what seperates wing chun schools.

Ive found there are schools that pay painful attention to the details of how your physical body should be positioned - this would be technique based training


Then there are schools that dont really care exactly how the arms are positioned as long as they develop the right energy, which you can feel in SNT and is tested in Chi Sao or structural tests


I believe the difference is the cause of a great amount of difference in opinion. For example when people from these different schools get together and practice they will wonder what in the hell the other person is doing.

[yylee]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Sounds like sci-fi.

agreed, it is like impulse engine vs warp drive. ;)

[TjD]

ATP in my cells powers my muscles, which move my body in a way such that according to the laws of physics, my fist travels at an extremely fast velocity into your face.

additionally i place my body in such a position that upon impact, my muscles and bones have a solid connection to the ground, such that i would not be driven backwards by the impact of aforementioned fist into the aforementioned face.

[Mckind13]

I am powered by prokaryotic cells pumping electrons across their cell walls. My mitochondria rock the block!

My Wing Chun energy comes from my electron pump baby.

External Power? Internal Power? Mines subatomic :P

[kj]

This has obviously devolved into more of a quibbling over words than a discussion of ideas and meanings underlying them. I admit I am enjoying the vocabulary lesson though. :D


Originally posted by Miles Teg
For me it is something that is a big part of what seperates wing chun schools.

Ive found there are schools that pay painful attention to the details of how your physical body should be positioned - this would be technique based training


Then there are schools that dont really care exactly how the arms are positioned as long as they develop the right energy, which you can feel in SNT and is tested in Chi Sao or structural tests


Good observations. From this frame of reference, I would add that there are some schools which emphasize both, inasmuch as position affects resultant "energy (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=energy) ."



I believe the difference is the cause of a great amount of difference in opinion. For example when people from these different schools get together and practice they will wonder what in the hell the other person is doing.

Indeed.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

Agreed.

For some, 'energy' is an easy way to express a multitude of complex components (experience, sensitivity, perception, control, coordination, kenetics, momentum, etc. etc.) in conversation.

For some, 'energy' is an easy way to obfuscate their way through a conversation. Sounds high-level yet is nebulous enough to provide cover.

For some, 'energy' is a hippie obsession like bean-sprouts and tie-dye. "Ya gotta use energy, maaaaaaan...."

On the internet, it's hard to tell who's using what for which. Hopefully some clarification will make the question easier to work with.

(And for the record, I am energized by a three legged hamster on a rusty wheel. Tough little SoB, when he's not napping!)

[Ernie]

RR[On the internet, it's hard to tell who's using what for which. Hopefully some clarification will make the question easier to work with.]



simple real world clarification ,
when you hit people go down

if your hands get warm or your butt bone tingles , or your chi causes you to pee a litttle

none of this matters during a spontainious street confrontation

now if you want to 'feel your self '' in the privacy of your own time and space in private well
by all means feel away
:D

[Phenix]

what is not energy based in wck?
it is only about how effective the energy applied in a technic.

[Miles Teg]

LOL some funny posts

KJ
I agree that schools have both. As for us our technique looks sloppy and lazy, but they are structurally strong.

[yylee]

Originally posted by Phenix
what is not energy based in wck?
it is only about how effective the energy applied in a technic.

sure every technique requires energy, but it seems people have different interpretations and training approachs towards that "magic" energy. Some say Yiu Ma, some say hard-soft, some say rechargable, some goes subatomic.....