Shaolin-do Email

[YinYangDagger]

Greetings folks that are interested. Below is an email I received today from Joe Schaeffer (sp?) in Austin (I'm still on the SD mailing list). Thought I'd share it...

The facts

When I make a mistake, I try to be the first to admit it. Well I made one today and I feel I must come clean with ya’ll. Someone walked in last Friday to the South Austin school and issued a challenge to Jordan Scharf, asking to fight Matt Southard because my brochure said that he was a good fighter. Well Jordan acted perfectly and flat out refused to have anything to do with this person. Then I received an email from a message board moderator the following day that someone was talking badly about us and I might want to look at it. He added that in regards to the challenge he respected our refusal and that I was to be commended for teaching my people restraint. It was amazing, people from all over were backing OUR actions in the matter. (I have some hope for our youth)
This person claimed to have bested (owned) our entire school (North and South) because he said that we were afraid to fight him. Mind you, I was ready to ignore this silliness, but then he began emailing me issuing a “friendly” sparring invitation at his school in South Austin. I told him that we need to prove nothing and that a challenge was out of the question.
This is when I made the mistake. I told him that if he wanted to come to the North Austin School sometime, I could arrange for him to Spar the “fearsome” fighters in question in a friendly match. To my surprise he asked what day. By this time I was already too deep. So I pushed as hard as possible for the “friendly” angle of the interaction.
Well tonight he visited the school with 3 other friends, ready to find out if we were worthy of his “OK” to his buddies on the internet. The following is an accurate and first hand account.
Sifu Paul Davis was the first to spar him. This person said that he wanted no groin contact and only light head contact. However, since he was a JiuJistu grappler, the light head contact that Paul made was completely ignored. Paul had his own plan and wanted to grapple with him and beat him at his own game. Paul gave it a great effort and escaped many holds, but was eventually tapped out.
Several minutes later, Sifu Corey stepped up. By this time it was clear that this person wouldn’t acknowledge pulled strikes, so Corey landed about 20-25 strikes to his head (about 50% contact level). Corey had soft sparring gloves on and still did a lot of damage to this guys face. Yet, this person still insisted that the fight was not over. He could not submit Corey on the ground and landed not one significant strike the entire time. Corey proved himself to be the fantastic martial artists and gentlemen that he is. He asked, “what do I have to do to say that I won this fight. I do not want to beat this guy any bloodier.” It became like the first Rocky movie at some point, with him refusing to quit. Finally, one of this person’s friends and our own Sifu Karl called the fight over, and in Corey’s favor. It was plain to see, and this with Corey pulling his kicks to the head and striking with only 50% power to the head through soft gloves. Corey’s and Paul control and restraint were incredible and they did every one of you proud. But from the moment I allowed this nonsense into the school I knew I made a mistake. I thought that somehow we could have a civil interaction with this person, and learn something about each other’s style in the process.
Unbelievably, this guy walked over to me at the end and said, “well you’ll be happy to know that I’ll be giving you a good report online”. To which I replied, “wow that really puts my mind at ease”.

I promise each of you that we will not allow this to happen again. Even though my intentions were to have a sparring interaction, I am now inspired to create a code of ethics for my instructors that prohibits anything like this in the school. The entire event was disgusting and beneath us, therefore unworthy of our conversation hence forth. I only tell you about it here, because you’re likely to hear some version. It might as well be the truth.
On a final note, I would like to ask a big favor of everyone in the school. If you visit message boards to discuss our school, you are doing me, Grandmaster Sin, and our art great disservice. I never have seen a meaningful discussion or exchange about this topic online. I will patrol the boards if necessary to see if my students are on them. I wouldn’t ask this favor unless I thought it important.
Tomorrow, let's all get back to what we love. Training!

[Judge Pen]

What message board's posts started all of this?

While I respect his perception that most of the message board discussions about SD devolve into something less than meaningful, I have participated in several that I feel has helped my understanding of SD, my understanding of SD's perception by others, and has improved my training and helped me make wonderful contacts across the country. I disagree, then, that these discussions have been a disservice to GrandMaster Sin The.

[red5angel]

I have a couple of comments - First kudos to the guys who sparred, period. I don't think there is anything shameful in sparring or meeting a challenge match, and sometimes as martial artists, I can't see a reason not to meet them if someone challenges you. I know all the legal crap, and am ok with that.
Sifu Paul Davies should not have tried to play the guys game however. First rule is make them play your game in your territory, he got ****y and go tbeat.

[MasterKiller]

You don't go into someone's school, ask to fight a challenge, and then say "I want light head contact." You can't accurately gauge a striker's ability to stop you unless you let him strike you.

I can fully understand not going full tilt on one another. The problem is, grapplers usually have no problem going 100% on you once they get you on the ground. So, the ten or twelve 50% hits I landed before that don't matter much to them because they got the tap anyway.

But, yeah, putting a guy's name in your brochures and touting him as a great fighter is asking for trouble.

[posthumandude]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12650&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Account.

[CaptinPickAxe]

video...sweet.

MK has taken the correct and denied the 50% sparring by busting its face with a 150% punch.

When you have "So-and-so is a great fighter" in a brochuer your asking for trouble. Hell, when me and Shake used to talk Martial Arts at parties with our buds, if a MAist was in earshot he'd come over and question us or ask to spar sometime. Its the in the Martial Artist psyche to want to test other styles so you can gauge if the guy is fulla B.S. or if he could be valuble to your training. I met a couple BJJ cats who I was going to spar with but relocated to the moutains before I could capitalize.

[Ray Pina]

We had a BJJ guy visit not long ago. First thing my master did was have him extend a locked arm to demonstrate the power he can issue from contact.... then they played.

To the guys credit, as soon as he shot and my master's hand touched his head the guy stopped cold and didn't move a muscle till my master withdrew his hand. This happened several times and the guy was a real gentleman.

General rule, though, if you're man enough to issue a challenge be man enough to accept the conditions: no fooling around.

[Ray Pina]

That is part of the business of saying, "I'm a pretty good martial artist, so good in fact I'm going to open up for business."

It's not big deal for martial artists to be fighting with each other, just like two good chess players will want to play each other to find out who's better. The guy that knows he's so much better and will win views it as no big deal. These instructors I'm sure find no big deal in playing with yound, novice students.

At what point do you become uncomfortable? There's your ceiling. We all have one.

[red5angel]

I think personally this was a great exmaple of some guy, who instead of going along with the crowd and making assumptions about people, decided to get out and to test himself and them as well, to find out for himself what the deal was. If more martial artists did this I think some of the fighting would go away.

[MasterKiller]

I think personally this was a great exmaple of some guy, who instead of going along with the crowd and making assumptions about people, decided to get out and to test himself and them as well, to find out for himself what the deal was. If more martial artists did this I think some of the fighting would go away. Na...He gets props for fighting, but read the other thread he started. He talked a lot of shiznit about the SD people and figured it was going to be a cake-walk. Now, he's being all humble about it because he got his nose busted.

But you're right. Putting on gloves usually stops all the mouth-fu.

[red5angel]

but that's what I'm saying. There are a lot, as a matter of fact, most of them out there smack talking it up with no real experience on the subjects they are speaking of, shaolin do is a good example. This guy however, backed up his talk with action. It doesn't have to get ugly but if a martial artists wants to understand another style/artist/school, he needs to go visit and stop the chatter.

[The Willow Sword]

When I make a mistake, I try to be the first to admit it.

Yeah right,,like the mistake YOU made when you backed out of supporting MY challenge to someone constantly badmouthing SD here on THESE boards? the MIstake of revealing that you have no integrity to support your DEDICATED DIsciples who BUSTED THEIR A$$ for you for 7 years?


He added that in regards to the challenge he respected our refusal and that I was to be commended for teaching my people restraint. It was amazing, people from all over were backing OUR actions in the matter. (I have some hope for our youth)

OH give me a freakin Break,,,people from ALL over? yeah maybe your OWN students in your OWN MC franchises from ALL over:rolleyes: ( i have some hope for our youth):rolleyes:



I am now inspired to create a code of ethics for my instructors that prohibits anything like this in the school. The entire event was disgusting and beneath us,

This is the real funny part of the whole email,,,what this tells me is that far be it from the precious franchise to be jeopardized by accepting challenges and either getting defeated or branching out in to the REAL world of shaolin and be exposed for the frauds you people really are. Code of ethics my A$$,,,,,what ethics are those that allow a fabrication of history and lineage to be perpetuated for 20+years?(oh excuse me lets be PC about it, ALLEGEDLY Fabricated lineage and history?:rolleyes:

I am so sick and freakin tired of Joe Shaefers High and mighty attitude,,they can all go take a flying fuk in to the river as far as i care.:rolleyes: :mad: :o

not so peaceful right now,,,TWS

[YinYangDagger]

yeah, I thought you'd get a kick out of this WS :D

[sean_stonehart]

I still wanna see the video.

I read thru 10 pages of Bullshido junk & still saw no vid link...

[Meat Shake]

****.... I too am insterested in the video.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I read 10 pages of that monotonous B.S. as well...and came to relize THERE WERE NO CLIPS. Needless to say I will check back occasionally to see if the clips are ever posted...

[omarthefish]

There were no clips because it just happened. There's lots of video. Give it some time. How many of you actaully know how to take a video, convert it to digital, edit it pulling out relevent clips, format it into .mpg or quicktime and find a place to upload them and get a link out there.

And if you actually HAVE done all that, how long did it take t get it all done?

Keep yer panties on guys.

[WanderingMonk]

approx 4 to 5 hours depending on the length of clips, software being used and speed of the computer.

[omarthefish]

It would take me a week minumum. Maybe 2.

It would take me at least a week to find someone with the right equipment. And then another week to find 4-5 hours of spare time. That would include installing and learning the software and shopping around for a place to upload the clips. I have no webpage. I am a computer technician but for some reason have always been baffled by the fairly user friendly world of HTML. Final Cut I can do. Heck I used to build Avids for TV stations in Hollywood. I've set up office networks on several occasions in various configuratoins.

But ask me to put together some online video clips and I'm lost.....go figure. I guess I just have a blind spot there. :(

[Shaolinlueb]

all for a good report online? :rolleyes:

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Na...He gets props for fighting, but read the other thread he started. He talked a lot of shiznit about the SD people and figured it was going to be a cake-walk. Now, he's being all humble about it because he got his nose busted.

But you're right. Putting on gloves usually stops all the mouth-fu.

I'm having difficulty accessing the thread from Bullshido, but at least I'm glad that the SD peeps in Texas seemed to have represented themselves well (I too would like to see the clips). Whether or not you view SD as TCMA, most of the schools I have been around do fight often.

Willow, man I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience with Master Joe. I don't know him or how he runs his schools

REd5, I agree with you and, with my teacher's blessing, I plan to visit and cross hands with as many non-SD people as I can.

[MasterKiller]

JP,
Basically, he read a brochure in which the SD school said one of their students was a great fighter. This guy went to challenge him, and initially the SD school said no. So, he talked a lot of trash. The SD school said OK, and he beat the first guy pretty easily, but some 4th degree BB opened up a can on him.

This guy has had 4 or 5 years of MA experience, but he only claims the 9 months of BJJ training to be of any worth, so it's a pizzing contest now about how a 9-month student beat a 2nd degree BB, and how the 4th degree guy must have wrestled or taken grappling because he didn't get owned on the ground.

[Judge Pen]

Well, I just took a seminar on SD ground-fighting, but its not something that is trained regulary at any SD school I've been a part of. Who knows if this guy did some cross-training or not? Plus in some schools of SD you can get a 2nd degree in 5 years (something I'm not happy with, but it's true) so the guys seemed to have equal experince as MA. Sounds like a good fight and the better fighters won.

Honestly with my limited experience in bjj and ground fighting, I wouldn't want to be taken to the ground especially against a guy with any real training. Would I get tapped out by the same guy if he got me there? Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on me and him, right?

[red5angel]

REd5, I agree with you and, with my teacher's blessing, I plan to visit and cross hands with as many non-SD people as I can.

that's the right idea. Of course it doesn't have to be anything bu freindly. I've found over the last yeqar and a half while looking for a good school that a lot of places are more then interested in showing you what they got if you are polite and seem sincere.

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
all for a good report online? :rolleyes:

Exactly my point.

It may technically take an afternoons worth of time but there's no way on this earth I could get it done in less than a couple weeks. And THATS being optimistic.

Priorities dude.

[JMantisSmurf]

hey all

im a KF student in dallas; i read the boards quite a bit but this is my first post

first, to those student in austin, we have a school there and so i travel to that area quite a bit and would like to come by and see

next. in think the first school was wrong if they were actually bragging about a fighter they had. i have have nothing but extreeme admiration for my sifu and would defend his image if need be, but i dont go around talking **** like "my sifu can beat up your sifu" its so childish

as for lineage tamporing, realy not cool. i am pround of where i come from and so should all students but if you want to look like you have some special lineage. go find a real sifu who has some.

daggers, i admire your ability to admit a mistake.

that does not mean that the challenger was an *******.

this paul should not have faught. if there is someone better than you- and there always is- do not accept the challenge. it shames your sifu. dont get me wrong, if you have any respect for your sifu you always defend him/her(to b politicly correct) always offer yourself to fight for them, but w/o approval you do nothing. one of the first things we learn at my school is humility.

i personaly encourage the chalenging between schools. i think it helps people with the same lineage to become closer and encourages KF fileal piety. i know the KFE considers themselves a family.

MS

[JMantisSmurf]

o yeah

where was this guy talking all this ****??

what message boards??

[red5angel]

this paul should not have faught. if there is someone better than you- and there always is- do not accept the challenge


I don't agree with this. All of us who aren't dilluded know that there are better people out there then us. Fighting gains us experience and a good martial artist, win or lose will walk away from a good fight having learned something. Losing does not necessarily equate to dishonor. the hononr in my opinion comes with meeting the challenge and accepting a win or a loss with maturity and grace.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by JMantisSmurf
hey all

if there is someone better than you- and there always is- do not accept the challenge. it shames your sifu.

i personaly encourage the chalenging between schools. i think it helps people with the same lineage to become closer and encourages KF fileal piety. i know the KFE considers themselves a family.

MS

How can both of these statements be true at the same time? If there is always someone that is better than you somewhere, then how can you fight in a challenge without risking shame to your sifu?

[MonkeySlap Too]

By saying you will never fight or accept challenges (even under rules or at a tournament style event - all kinds of ways to make this legal) renders you no longer a martial arts school. Sparring should be no big deal. And as you get older, your students do it for you.

Frankly, this guy Schaefer is demonstrative of much of what is wrong with CMA in America. I'm not saying what he is doing/teaching is good CMA, or even CMA, but I've seen more 'authentic' schools act the same way...

[Losttrak]

I dont see anything wrong morally or ethically...what happened. We are fighters. Thats what we do. It wasn't a bloodbathe. Things seemed under-control and fair, so I dont see why this practice is unacceptable. If you are doing martial arts aerobics, then thats ok. However, if people want to at least touch hands with you, it shouldnt be shunned as a disgraceful act.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Losttrak
However, if people want to at least touch hands with you, it shouldnt be shunned as a disgraceful act.

You're preaching to the choir on that one.

[red5angel]

Frankly, this guy Schaefer is demonstrative of much of what is wrong with CMA in America.


and that is?

Right on Losttrack.

[The Willow Sword]

Gimme a freakin break!!:rolleyes:

It is obvious that there was no real respect given to the guys who went down there to spar(did you guys even READ that email letter???)

That seems to be Joes rap, in my opinion, he will smile in your face and make you THINK that everything is all cool and dandy,,then he will,,as others there will, turn around and be TWO FACED and talk smack,,,i mean the EMAIL to all his students on the mailing list shows this clearly. i guess he figured that the email would not get out to anyone other than his "Loyal" following. "OOPSEYDAISY:eek:

i suspect that he is right now reformatting his "Brochure" and editing out the Matt Southard is a great fighter and adding in some other BS about " how we here dont train fighters" we train in a ancient art and preserve the ways of shaolin and blah blah blah:rolleyes:

feeling peaceful again,,,TWS

[red5angel]

read it, still hanging on to my opinion. Of course I'm not a disenchanted ex SD person either ;)

besides, who in the martial arts world isn't two faced? Who here hasn't been in a school, going to a school, talking to another artist, hearing one thing about other people and their arts while they are around, and then hearing something competely different later when they aren't around?

[The Willow Sword]

besides, who in the martial arts world isn't two faced? Who here hasn't been in a school, going to a school, talking to another artist, hearing one thing about other people and their arts while they are around, and then hearing something competely different later when they aren't around?


so do you think that this is accpetable behavior Red5? i mean you meet someone from another school, cross hands,,either best them or they best you. you get in to this fight club comradery where you respect each others style or courage or whatever,,smile in each others face,,then they go off and send an EMAIL to ALL thier students on thier mailing list talking SMACK to you and telling everyone that it was all Beneath you anyway?

:rolleyes: comeon red5 open your eyes man.


PEACE,,,TWS

[red5angel]

no, I'm not saying it's acceptable. I am saying that while your singling these guys out for this behaviour, it isn't any different anywhere else for the most part.
All I can see is the email he sent out with as much respect as anyone could give to a man who showed up and touched hands, period. did he send out another email saying the opposite to his students or "insiders"? I don't know, and I'm certainly not going to assume so.

[YinYangDagger]

Actually, Willow Sword CAN single them out, because he's been under Joe Schaefer at his school and has been backstabbed by said subject. It's not really singling out if it involves a direct relation and he has direct experience in this type of situation.

[Losttrak]

Bah. I dont care what people say behind my back, because people always talk... especially after you school them(Cameras are always helpful. lol). Anyways, you cant ever control what people will spout off. If I wanted to touch hands, then I came for a reason. No matter what happens I still achieved my goal, right? If my goal was to make them look bad, or make them look better... then it gets a little risky. I guess one's failure is determined by one's own motivations. Oh... and I read the email. :D I am only stating my beef with it.

[SifuAbel]

Anyone care to wager that this will be the biggest letdown on the planet when the video comes out?

Don't expect "enter the dragon", folks.

[Asia]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Anyone care to wager that this will be the biggest letdown on the planet when the video comes out?

Don't expect "enter the dragon", folks.

LOL Of course not. It not like Hedge is Bruce!:D

I at first thought this was a simple sparring session now the new twists makes me wish I was there!:D

It is kind of dishearting because our first East Coast McThrowdown was held in a Shaolin Do school and the owner was pretty cool about it. He didn't even mind when I put someones head through the wall. But these guys:rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

Coňo chico,

This story seems to be spinning into the stuff of legend.

Y pa' que? Nada.......... Dos comemierdas jugando como gigantes.

[The Willow Sword]

a video? LOL yeah right. here is a video.

http://swshaolin.com/mj_fights.asp


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


just for those that dont know,,that is joe in the video.

[JMantisSmurf]

"How can both of these statements be true at the same time? If there is always someone that is better than you somewhere, then how can you fight in a challenge without risking shame to your sifu"

there is a difference in sparing between schools- i think it is great to go to different schools and see how each measures up. see thier teknike etc...

and challenging a school.

to challenge a school directly is to attempt to prove yourself better than that school as a whole. as well as thier style/lineage. this is were we get into "my style is better than your style" type thing.

i spar/chi sau with other schools all the time. even ones i know are better than me. it helps me better myself as a student.

and if someone were to disrespect my sifu or my school i would defend them in an instant.

nut when someone acctualy challenges our school. then ill let one of my si hings take care of it, lest i fail and embaras our school.

MS

[norther practitioner]

I like the pose after the fact.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
I like the pose after the fact.

An unfortunate by-product of point sparring. Watch any point sparring match and you will see the same thing.

[red5angel]

I like to pose after the fact too. If my opponent is on the ground I like to flex and stick my foot on his back/butt/head like I just conquered him, you know, for the camera.

[norther practitioner]

That wasn't the pose I was speaking of, but I like that one too.

[red5angel]

That wasn't the pose I was speaking of, but I like that one too.


don't try to lay your leftist neocon double talk on me.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Ah, nothing like point sparring to show the true talent of you masters...

I remember when I was in SD I was amped up to hear about the masters tournie. I thought it would be a slobber-knocker. Boy, was it a let down when I discovered it was suedo-TKD point sparring bullsh!t.

My pose would be (after chasing my opponent hopping around on one foot, of course) would be a back flip then I'd turn around so everyone can see my Banzi Logo on the back of my Gi. Then I'd tighten my red head band and a gaggle of Asian women would come out and feed me grapes...















then round two would start.

[MasterKiller]

Real men use "hero sits atop the mountain" after knocking someone silly.

[CaptinPickAxe]

True...True


But pimps have grape-feeding Geishas.;)

[Judge Pen]

If posing like that could cause a gaggle of Asian women to run out and feed me grapes, then I'm all for it.

[Meat Shake]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
If posing like that could cause a gaggle of Asian women to run out and feed me grapes, then I'm all for it.

It could happen... its all about the charisma.

[red5angel]

I just think about posing and I get surrounded by chicks wanting to feed me grapes, and not just japanese chicks!

[The Willow Sword]

hehehe they used to have this continuous sparring thing when i was there. i was even a corner judge in one of them,,,,however,,after that they stopped doing them because
"people were getting hurt"

the match i judged was one of those matches where the one guy takes the other and throws him down planting his fist in the other guys face as he hits the ground, hahaha. the guy who got punked was out for a moment and then was carried off and the other one was allowed to continue on. The next year the same two spar,,point sparring mind you. and the one who got punked last year wins the bout.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by red5angel
I just think about posing and I get surrounded by chicks wanting to feed me grapes, and not just japanese chicks!

Nah, I have room for Chinese, Thai, Vietmanese, etc. :p

[MonkeySlap Too]

Ah, nothing like seeing the 'real' and 'true' Shaolin in action. Amazing how much it resembles Kara-te.

[Nick]

So has the video been posted yet, or what?

Later...

[LiteBlu]

HOW MANY OF YOU SHAOLIN DO GUYS DOES IT TAKE TO BEAT AN NINE MONTH BRAZILLIAN JIU JITSU WHITE BELT?!

Answer: 2

ROTFLMAO, no wonder you will stop taking challenges, next time it might take 4 of your black belt sifus to beat another white belt.


And why does a BJJ white belt get to fight one SD Black Belt Sifu after another. LOL!

1st fight, the Sifu tried to fight on the ground, in his words, "Beat you at your game". To which he failed, on so many levels.

1. His grappling was nullified by an 9 month BJJ white belt
2. His training was thrown out the window by his Ego
3. His belief in his own training is suspect for him to grapple


LMAO! If a ninth month BJJ white belt can do that, imagine what grappler with the same number of years experience as the SD sifus would do.

[Golden Tiger]

Perhaps some of the arm chair kong foo quarterbacks would be kind enough to provide some footage of YOUR non-stop, no holds barred, "real" CMA matches.

I have seen sifu Abel's clip before but would very much like to see some of the others on here.

If you don't want to showcase your real talent in an open forum, please feel free to email me the clip, I will do my best to respect your need for keeping your deadly, top secret techniques hidden from the rest of the world.

[red5angel]

And why does a BJJ white belt get to fight one SD Black Belt Sifu after another. LOL!

I see the stupidty jumped straight from bullshido to KFO. The guy mentioned he wanted to fight the second guy, it was part of the challenge. thanks for playing though come again maybe next time ;)


Perhaps some of the arm chair kong foo quarterbacks would be kind enough to provide some footage of YOUR non-stop, no holds barred, "real" CMA matches.

LOL!

[MasterKiller]

HOW MANY OF YOU SHAOLIN DO GUYS DOES IT TAKE TO BEAT AN NINE MONTH BRAZILLIAN JIU JITSU WHITE BELT?! I dunno....when you say "don't hit me hard and I'll fight you," it kind of tips the scales in your favor.

[Judge Pen]

Thanks MK.

And, as an SD black sash, I have no pretentions of thinking that I could take an experienced grappler in his game. We don't train for that per se and I'd have to cross-train to even think about rolling with a grappler, even one with 9 months of experince. But don't tell me to pull my shots before you get me to the ground because we do train to avoid shoots and takedowns, but they can only work when (1) you hit with martial intent or (2) you have someone who is respectful and will acknowledge a pulled technique.

Now is this a different philosophy from any other art that focuses on stand up striking?

[LiteBlu]

MasterKiller quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW MANY OF YOU SHAOLIN DO GUYS DOES IT TAKE TO BEAT AN NINE MONTH BRAZILLIAN JIU JITSU WHITE BELT?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I dunno....when you say "don't hit me hard and I'll fight you," it kind of tips the scales in your favor. "



MasterKiller my gay friend, the light contact agreement was duly ignored by the people fighting.




"red5angel quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And why does a BJJ white belt get to fight one SD Black Belt Sifu after another. LOL!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I see the stupidty jumped straight from bullshido to KFO. The guy mentioned he wanted to fight the second guy, it was part of the challenge. thanks for playing though come again maybe next time"


red5angel, my other ambiguously gay friend, I agree, that the BJJ white belt was very stupid to take another challenge even though he had one functioning arm left. And your welcome, its always my pleasure to come and play with you ninjas.

[red5angel]

red5angel, my other ambiguously gay friend, I agree, that the BJJ white belt was very stupid to take another challenge even though he had one functioning arm left. And your welcome, its always my pleasure to come and play with you ninjas.


yawn. Let me give you some advice. It may help with your trolling. First, the direct and basic slams, don't work here, see we get retards all the time who want to try to troll based in eth grappling vs kungfu argument. So you failed there. Ambigiously ghey, good one, haven't heard that before about a billion times, mostly from guys trolling the KFO about how much grappling is better. you failed there and just came off cliche. unless of course cliche is what your shoting for? Also, actually bothering to read most of the material before posting helps to make your trolls more subtle and sound more intelligent.
For example -


MasterKiller my gay friend, the light contact agreement was duly ignored by the people fighting.


nooooo, the guy failed to acknowledge he was taking shots at light contact so they had to go to harder contact to get it through his thick skull. But thanks for playing.

Overall liteblue, I can't score your troll, it doesn't deserve it. You gte the gong and you ahve to leave early for being probably the weakest troll to come along in a while. I say create a new aco****, watch some of the more accomplished trolls and try harder. Try again.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by LiteBlu
MasterKiller my gay friend, the light contact agreement was duly ignored by the people fighting. He still took the 2nd guy down a few times and couldn't tap him.

Royce called. He wants his nutsack back.

[LiteBlu]

"MasterKiller quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LiteBlu
MasterKiller my gay friend, the light contact agreement was duly ignored by the people fighting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He still took the 2nd guy down a few times and couldn't tap him. "

That's because of his injured arm from his first match where he beat the first Black Belt Ninja.


"Royce called. He wants his nutsack back. "

Yawn. Let me give you some advice. It may help with your trolling. First, the direct and basic slams don't work here.

;)

"nooooo, the guy failed to acknowledge he was taking shots at light contact so they had to go to harder contact to get it through his thick skull. But thanks for playing."

Excuses, excuses. Excuses are what ninjas are best at. You failed there and just came off cliche. unless of course cliche is what your shoting for?

Thank you for playing as well. You just shot yourself in the foot.


Again, in case you didn't hear me the first time.

HOW MANY OF YOU SHAOLIN DO GUYS DOES IT TAKE TO BEAT AN NINE MONTH BRAZILLIAN JIU JITSU WHITE BELT?!

Answer = 2.

[red5angel]

awesome, I love when a guy wants to troll but he's too dumb to do it well.




Yawn. Let me give you some advice. It may help with your trolling. First, the direct and basic slams don't work here


oooh good technique, copy me. Oh wait, that's been done before, try again.




Excuses, excuses. Excuses are what ninjas are best at. You failed there and just came off cliche. unless of course cliche is what your shoting for?


ooooh turning my words againts me, another classic, but it has to make sense for it to be any good. ;) try harder.


Thank you for playing as well. You just shot yourself in the foot.


That's right, by calling your troll and explaining to you how to do it better I shot myself in the foot. Good job, but looking stupid isn't going to help your trolling here liteblue, we get it too often and the game your playing so far is old old old.

[BentMonk]

Some trolls can at least use proper grammer, spelling, etc. Sometimes they even come off as pseudo-intelligent. This one needs to get back under his bridge. The re-hash of the BJJ vs Everyone else is played out. The juvenile insults were even more lame. Face it trollkin, it has been acknowledged here before that there are decent fighters in almost any MA. I give props to all involved in this latest SD episode. At least they got up from the fuking keyboard and did something MA related. Still, you can't have an unbiased match when you say, "don't hit me too hard, I'm trying to grab you." If the SD guy would have unloaded full tilt boogie, the BJJ guy would've been knocked da fuk out. Sounds to me like your just pizzed off 'cause a couple of SD guys proved that not all of SD is people on the web doing sh!tty form work. Some of us can actually fight...gee who'd a thunk it. :rolleyes:

[Losttrak]

Lol Why dont all you peeps hold a McSmackdown in Dallas. I'll fight any of you bastages. =D Just give me some notice so I can stop some of my plethora of self-destructive vices. My wife even mentioned that she hadn't seen me beat someone down in awhile... so who am I to refuse? All I need is a time/date/place.

[Chang Style Novice]

No car. Plus, I'm waaaaaay outta shape and practice.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Losttrak
Lol Why dont all you peeps hold a McSmackdown in Dallas. I'll fight any of you bastages. =D Just give me some notice so I can stop some of my plethora of self-destructive vices. My wife even mentioned that she hadn't seen me beat someone down in awhile... so who am I to refuse? All I need is a time/date/place. I thought you guys were supposed to beat up Philbert on a Thursday or something? I'm only down for a weekend McSmackDown. If you guys can put one together, let me know and I'll drive the 2.5 hours.

[Losttrak]

I am working to get at least 4 or 5 people together before I sacrifice my already limited schooltime to pursue some regular full-contact action. If this next term (starting next week) is a little lighter, I can put it together. I am having a byeeeotch of a problem staying consistent with my current training schedule. However some one-time McSmackdown action requires minimal commitment. =D

[Ray Pina]

O, drive for them but not whem I'm in town:p :)

Anyway, there is a simple way to handle this type of situation. Friends getting together to train, or someone expressing a true interest in feeling your technique ... set a light pace and follow the other guys lead.

Someone walking into your school to challenge -- especially after talking smack -- isn't fooling around. Make it clear, coming to challenge = coming to FIGHT which = all is fair in love and war.

Don't utter the word challenge unless you're ready for that. Otherwise, call it "playing."
....

I posted my last fight, which I lost from tapping out from exhaustian in the second:mad: I'll have better footage in Sept.

[dodger87]

Some of the Bullshido people don't know where to draw the line. I mean why do you give the SD people so much **** after they accepted your challenge. Thats already worthy of praise. If they don't accept your challenge you call them Mcdojo. If they accept the challenge, fight and lose/win you still treat them like a Mcdojo. You guys are basically creating a no-win situation for them. Show some respect, at least they had the guts to stand up and accept your challenge. Even if they lose show some good sportsmanship.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
O, drive for them but not whem I'm in town:p :)

Dallas = 2.5 hours

Houston = 8 hours

That's a long way to drive just to get punched a lot. :p

[Losttrak]

I hear ya, Master. I once had to drive an hour with an injury soo bad, I was going into shock, coming close to passing out on the way to safety. lol That makes it a helluva lot harder too!

[red5angel]

Don't utter the word challenge unless you're ready for that. Otherwise, call it "playing."

not a bad idea, although I think I'll calling it sparring. Seriously though, your right, talking smack is just asking for a beating. however I believe it is reasonable for a martial artist to respectfully ask to spar with students of a school. I want to see the people fight who are going to train me, no doubt about it. I need to know the stuff works and that the people teaching me know how to make it work. A little light sparring can show you enough.
mostly it's just ego and the fear that your going to have one of your students dropped that stops people from allowing it. I get so sick of hearing stuff like "no one gets to touch hands with the instructor or top students for......" The Sifu doesn't want to, ok, but throw in your best student and let's see what you got? What do you have to lose? I win, and I walk, your still where you were before I walked in. You win and I join, you get one more student.

[Ray Pina]

I hear ya. We get both of these aproaches about once a month on average. At our school it's the opposite frustration, our teacher doesn't let anyone play with outsiders except him.... then again none of us really "have it" like he does yet. I'm thinking another 12 to 16 months until the movements are down and then who knows how long for the breathing/internal and then there's weapons which he really welcomes also.... so much to learn.

If we play out he doesn't really want to know about it either. He's just warming up to the idea of me fighting in tournaments now... his idea is that fighting is not sport, it's kill or be killed even in the context of a ring. I can understand that when you see guys getting dropped on their head (even if they're not supposed to be and penalized) or kneed in the ribs, ect... but hey, this is what we love.

[themeecer]

Dang MK! You keep this up and I'll have to take you out and buy you dinner if I am ever in your city. Granted right after we cross hands and beat each other to a bloody pulp. :D You have carried yourself well on this and other boards, thank you for that.

Now I must go ice my back to make up for stupidity on my part. It is what I get for showing techniques full force with absolutely no warm up, that and having a bad back already.

[SifuAbel]

Its hard to ignore this thread since its seems to be on quite a few boards.

...People on both sides giving excuses or seeing their way not to lose face.

A prevalent theory is that it took 2 SD BBs to take down a BJJ white belt. Since we have no video, its being made out to sound like an epic battle. HH sounds to me like the black knight in monty python, Losing all his limbs yet claiming to be battle ready and victorious.

One possibilty is not being entertained by the posters of these threads. That the SD BBs were TOYING with HH and basically took turns having fun with the poor boy.

Lord forbid, that a BJJ student be anything less than a martial god.

[Fu-Pow]

Black belt degrees one through four are considered beginners, while fifth degree is called associate master. Once a person reaches sixth degree they are considered full masters. The rank of ninth degree is considered a Grandmaster, but the position of tenth degree is held by only one person; the highest of the Grandmasters. While there can be many 9th degrees (there were often ten in a temple), there can be only one 10th degree. This person is given the awesome responsibility of assuring the continuation of Shaolin, in its purest form. Under Construction

I found this on that site.

The "highest" of the grand masters.

There's only one...the chosen one....good enough to learn all the disciplines of Shaolin....I can see the movie trailer now.

Is this from Sin The's movie script or what?:D

[YinYangDagger]

I think it's been proven that in a CONTROLLED environment that BJJ guys are martial gods. No denying that...

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by themeecer
Dang MK! You keep this up and I'll have to take you out and buy you dinner if I am ever in your city. Granted right after we cross hands and beat each other to a bloody pulp. :D You have carried yourself well on this and other boards, thank you for that. Just calling it like I see it.

I still can't believe that thread on fightauthority has gone on so long.


Lord forbid, that a BJJ student be anything less than a martial god.That guy has at least 4 or 5 years of training in other arts. He was by no means a noob, even though he only had 9 months BJJ.

[themeecer]

Is it still there?!?!? Dang! I can't remember if that is one of the sites I am currently banned from .. I need to go check. hehe

[kungfuyou]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
a video? LOL yeah right. here is a video.

http://swshaolin.com/mj_fights.asp


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


just for those that dont know,,that is joe in the video.

Ok so that was Shaolin-Do or TAE KWAN DO?????? Awful lot of running in and kicking!!! :confused: :rolleyes:

[JMantisSmurf]

hey i know this relly doesnt belong on this forum...

but where all the site you guys are talking about posting??

cant wait to see the vid.

[Radhnoti]

What I find most...conflicting about Hedge's (I think that's his name) version is that he completely dismisses the years of experience he has in other martial arts. Saying, "BJJ is all I've had that really counts.", even though he earlier recites a list of other arts he's studied. Half or more of the people posting on that thread AGREE with him, and just call him a 8 month student. :confused:

So...by his own standards shouldn't he be saying, "I'm an 8 month student who fought a guy with no experience."? After all shaolin-do isn't BJJ, which is the only art that COUNTS right?
I'm not knocking BJJ, I've studied jujitsu myself...but his double standard of reducing his own amount of experience and boosting his opponent's is simply ridiculous in my eyes.

I'm glad no one got injured too badly. I doubt Gotikimus'(sp?) "duty of care" was being observed in the SD school that day. Master Joe is lucky to not be facing a lawsuit in today's society...
:eek:

[cerebus]

As much as I've disagreed with SD people in the past (and continue to do so) I have to agree with Radhnoti on this one. Hedge was an experienced martial artist who got his azz handed to him but just couldn't bring himself to completely admit it (he DOES admit it, though very grudgingly and with alot of "buts").

And my own suggestion is not so much to avoid challenges like this but ALWAYS have legal waivers for the participants to sign AND ALWAYS videotape it (and make sure your guy knows enough and is good enough not to do anything that could turn that tape into evidence AGAINST you rather than FOR you :D ).

[Meat Shake]

Rad, you also have to take into consideration that while he did study other arts, the longest was for 8 months. (Or so he says)
In this case, he would have gone from school to school learning basics. Thats about it. Basics dont change that drastically from style to style. Stances, basic punches, basic kicks....

Edit: I will say however, that by the rules that they followed, it was more or less impossible for the SD BB to "win".

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by cerebus
As much as I've disagreed with SD people in the past (and continue to do so) I have to agree with Radhnoti on this one. Hedge was an experienced martial artist who got his azz handed to him but just couldn't bring himself to completely admit it (he DOES admit it, though very grudgingly and with alot of "buts").

And my own suggestion is not so much to avoid challenges like this but ALWAYS have legal waivers for the participants to sign AND ALWAYS videotape it (and make sure your guy knows enough and is good enough not to do anything that could turn that tape into evidence AGAINST you rather than FOR you :D ).

I couldn't agree more. You have sue happy people like me out ther, so you need to have legal waivers for anything.

And Rad, you assesment is spot on, but who ever listens to us here anyway? :D

MS, if you anre serious in practicing "just the basics" then you will be as good as you need to be, right? I hate to agree with some of the MMA guys, but isn/'t about practicing and mastering the basice, the timing and the application against a resisting opponent more than anything else? This guy seems to be making a lot of excuses for himself.

[Ralphie]

To me, this is an example of understanding the ranges of fighting, and playing your game. A problem with BJJ, is that most don't practice takedowns until well after they've started. The first SD black belt this bjj guy fought went to the ground with him, where he had little to no experience. He subsequently lost. The next guy kept it standing, and schooled the white belt.

[Judge Pen]

Could someone post the links to the other forums' threads that discuss this encounter?

[Judge Pen]

Just read the bullshido forum. I thought everything was fair until the more serious trolls showed up on page 5 and started stirring it up a bit.

[sean_stonehart]

.............still waiting on video...............

[The Willow Sword]

Holy crap,,,,lol. Looks like sd is getting battered over there as well,,,,,still though the bullshido peeps are giving credit where credit is due with repsect to the challenge.

it also looks as if over there the history thing is being beaten to death.
:rolleyes:

i leave it alone really,,,,,there is the obvious and then there are the "questions".

also i am sorry about my posts earlier chopping that email joe sent out to his students,, i mean i am not sorry about what i said,,,i am just apologizing for my anger in it all,,,,,it is a slow process getting over the things that i went through there.


PEACE,,,,TWS