Ariel Mantis

[blackmantis]

Hi,

I was wondering if there are any acrobatic moves in mantis style (like there are in Eagle Claw).

We do some pretty impressive kicks, and some nice jumps in my mantis style, but i was wondering if butterfly twists etc. are found in mantis fist?

S

[-N-]

Originally posted by blackmantis
[...]but i was wondering if butterfly twists etc. are found in mantis fist?
...uh, there's a way to kill your opponent with that?

N.

[Tieh]

I sincerely hope no mantis style teaches such nonsense! :cool:

[BeiTangLang]

Originally posted by -N-

...uh, there's a way to kill your opponent with that?

N.

They _could_ die laughing! :D

[baldmantiz]

for some reason, shyun 8step has a tornado kick in it

[-N-]

Originally posted by baldmantiz
for some reason, shyun 8step has a tornado kick in it Ok, fair enough. Same for Northern/HK Mantis. Not a kick that I use in sparring though.

For me, it's mostly shin kicks, groin kicks, roundhouse kicks, front kicks, side kicks, and heel kicks (in order of decreasing frequency). Though I may turn to retreat, and throw a crescent kick if the person follows.


Originally posted by BeiTangLang
They _could_ die laughing!
:)

N.

[mantis108]

I have always made the distinction between hurricane and tornado kick.

Hurricane kick to me is what most people would called tornado kick. It is an airborne type of kick as it the whirl wind blowing through the land. It is used in forms mostly found in Long fist systems. Mantis styles that has longfist influence would have this kick. Although it is also considered basic Kung Fu training in most northern styles, oddly enough I have seen Savate sparring that utilized this kick.

Tornado kick is that you are lying on your back and twirl up. It literally looks like a tornado toring things down. It is one of the ground fighting basic. It's a good exercise for gaining the felixabilty and explosiveness for straight arm bar IMHO. A variation of this is the bridge up.

Butterfly kick (Huan Zi?) can be used for a few situations. It can be use in avoiding takedown (those sweeps) if the hands are tied by Chin Na. It can be used to get out of a floor sweeping kick bring yourself in position to do a side kick (Tainan showed me this one). It can also be used in a sprawl situation to bring you arround an behind the opponent. So there are a few good use of it.

Cartwheel is a good tool in ground fighting. I would reinforce it with handstand exercises for strength and balance if it is going to be use in that situation.

Anyway, these are basic kung fu training tools that aren't necessarily mantis specific. Having said all that, I am skeptical if any of the modern Wushu dance fest athelet would know the applications. So if they start doing the wushu mantis compulsory or wushu Bengbu with these kicks, I definitely would die laughing or die crying. :(

Just a few thoughts

Mantis108

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Blackmantis,

The answer to your question is yes.
Some forms not trad PM have flashy kicks.
Some forms trad PM have flashy kicks.
Some forms trad or not is debateable, but flashy kicks none the less.

I don't understand the English terminolgy you use for these kicks.

Xuen zi is the only kick I can think of that has no practical application.
You see it a lot in wushu and also in some Chinese opera.
Some creative people have concocted an app for this thoguh.
More power to 'em.

All the other kicks have good application, mostly the kicks are high, but they often relate to ground fighting.

I see these in.
7th route essentials of
mimen and meihua and taiji PM.
The meihua Manuscript directly attributes the creation of this form to Liang Xuexiang.
Most PM tracxes roots directly to him excepting 6 harmony and 7*.
Though there is a relationship with these two styles and Liang Xuexiang.
What it is exactly is hard to say.

Mantis108 has a Ditang PM form as well as many of these ground apps in there 2 man training.

HK 7* has the drunken form and 4 road running strike with nice kicks.

PM styles have Xiao Huyen.
Little Tiger Sparrow.
Some also have middle and large versions.
Flashy kicks in all.

8 Step has the unique cloud peircing kick in two of there essentials route forms.

This is considered an adoption from Ditang fist. But I have seen this kick listed in manuscripts of other schools(hand written old copies) that include this kick.

Wah Lum has good high kicks that move directly to takedowns.
In fact this is one of the specialties of Wah Lum as it is so common in that style.

About the kick we call Xuen Feng Tuei( swirling wind kick)

It is likea outside in kick(Gua Mien Jiao) where you strike to the face with the in side of your foot, or to the neck with your inside heel.

It is almost always done with a right leg spinning the body counter clockwise in midair.

One test of if you have the ability to apply this kick in fighting is for you to jump up with both feet, kick your left hand with your right foot while spinning 360 and then(the hard part) land on your right foot with the left foot never touching the ground.

Many people land with the left foot.
Too slow a kick with too little spring.

Some can land with both feet, not bad, but the high skill is land on the right foot.

Of course if you don't even land then it is top level.

You also need to be able to do this kick and land on your side of your body. On hard surface, not 2 feet of foam, if you plan on using this kick to knock out someone's stuffin'.

Beware, this is how I popped my eardrum. To this day it still isn't better.
Last month the doctor said it still hadn't healed and there was mold growing in there.

[yu shan]

Tainan Mantis

Can you give us a for instance on Wah Lum`s good high kicks that go into takedowns?

Me personally, I would not do an aerial while fighting. I`d prefer to have my feet on the ground. JMO

[Tainan Mantis]

There is a recurring theme.
It can be seen in many WL forms.
7 Kicks form is well known by all WL folks so I will use it as an example.

-Left low side kick, before foot hits ground jump with right face hanging kick(gua mien jiao).
-land in low squat stance with one leg straight(pu tuei)whith both ahnds smashing the groiund.. This is their way of doing Deng Pu.

If you look at the ba bu lien huan tape you see the same thing, from application standpoint.
It is just that the gua mien kick is not a jumping kick in babu lien huan and the deng pu pushes to the side in stead of straight down to the ground.

A while ago I put a detailed description of this section on Mantis108's forum.
Maybe he can dig the thread and link us to it?

[mantisben]

Originally posted by blackmantis
Hi,

I was wondering if there are any acrobatic moves in mantis style (like there are in Eagle Claw).

We do some pretty impressive kicks, and some nice jumps in my mantis style, but i was wondering if butterfly twists etc. are found in mantis fist?

S
I don't think there are acrobatic moves in traditional PM. Still, acrobatic moves like the butterfly twists, aerials, and such can be fun, and a great way to keep in shape.