Trying to Learn Praying Mantis

[m_s_ifland]

Please help me. I want to learn Norther Praying mantis very badly. Unfortunately there are no schools within hundreds of miles of where I live. I have studied in Kenpo for five years and studied a few Shoalin forms for a while such as: Small Cannon, Taizu Long Boxing, and small back through boxing. Can anyone recommend where I could get some comprehensive videos, dvd's or vcd's. I have martial arts experience so I think that I can learn from a video.

[shirkers1]

http://www.mantiskungfu.com/HowtoLearn.htm

Here is a link to jon funks site. If you check ebay often, there is a listing from a store selling all 12 videos for around $140 I think. Every once in a while it gets listed.

Funks videos are very descriptive and to the point.

I my self would never try to learn a "style" from a video or book, they are mearly for referance material only. I would also frown on someone who has no back ground in a certain style to try and pick it up this way. You don't get the full spectrum of a style by watching a video or looking through a book. Being in a class environment with fellow students and of coarse a teacher is so much more healthy for your growth as a student. You need that hands on training. Especially with mantis which if taught by the right person, dwells on the concept of sensitivity training. That's something you aren't going to get from a video.

The thing with your past history is that these styles are very sturn and hard postured. I see so many students with a past in karate and other styles come in and they are so rigid, and it takes forever just to get them untrained. Mantis is a very powerful martial art. But it doesn't come from a rigid body, it flows from the combination of footwork and total body movement. Good luck though.

[yu shan]

m_s_

Sent you a pm, not sure where in the state you are. If you are in east Tennessee, go to Wah Lum Tam Tui in Knoxville. The Wah Lum Temples site has a school listing. If your in Memphis, I believe Terry Bryant has a WL club going there. There is also a WL school in Bowling Green, Kentucky. We are in Nashville, go to www.Ponglai.com

Good luck!

[-N-]

Originally posted by shirkers1 [...]You don't get the full spectrum of a style by watching a video or looking through a book. Being in a class environment with fellow students and of coarse a teacher is so much more healthy for your growth as a student. You need that hands on training.[...] Absolutely true. Some people have a hard enough time learning even when they have a teacher, let alone trying to learn from a video.

Re kenpo... I had background in that before learning mantis. I got yelled at for 6 years due to all the stuff I had to unlearn. At least it wasn't background in shotokan ;)

N.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Ha, same here. Sifu Richard Allen hollered at me all the time saying my Wah Lum looked like Kenpo. And he should know. Shotokan, Ishinryu and TKD are much worse though. Good thing for me I didn't spend much too time with them.

m_s_ifland
See if you can set something up with the nearest Mantis school to train once or twice a month. Most Instructors will be glad to do this. The Instructor will give you the material to work on at home and review/correct it when you come in for class. Since you've trained before you should have the discipline to practice everyday. That would be MUCH better than learning from tape on your own.

[mantis108]

You are partically scaring him away from Mantis. lol...

Seriously, there are some good points made. There is no substitute for a good teacher. However, this doesn't mean that a good training program, whatever that may be, can't be presented in multimedia format. Other styles especially those MMA and sport types already have done it. By saying it can't be done is actually saying we haven't done it.

Personally, I have faith in people today that they can pick up things rather quickly unlike hundreds of years ago in a remote farming village. Granted, there is no way to monitor progress but sounds like our friend here would be willing to do correspondance. Besides don't ever underestimate the power of the internet. ;) So, I would say caution my friend but go for it. It is a place to start but don't expect you to be a mantis adept in no time.

As for training conflict between different styles, with all due respects, I honestly don't think it is healthy to frown on it. In this day and age, especially in North America, we tend to outgrow ourselves quickly because of the information boom. People sought after other styles because they realize that the former styles don't give them the answer in their search of personal growth. If they are willing to give mantis a try, we should give them all the help there is. I haven't out grow mantis and it has been 20 years give or take. My loyality to the system (not a particular style) is because it offers everything that I look for. Every Mantis stylist is different and every Mantis stylist has something great to offer. Most of all, the majority of mantis practitioners that I know are by far the most willing to share among all CMA styles.

Speaking of sharing, Jon Funk offers his vision of Mantis and he put together a program that is readily available. He gave his best in what he wanted to come across. Personally, I prefer Sifu Lee Kam wing's material. I think he has some books and tapes (2 of them? ) I get a better picture with Sifu Lee's material and I can relate to them easily. shrfu Su Yuchang's has quite abit of stuff. I have only seen bits and pieces. So I can't really comment on it. The same is with Sifu Paul Eng. These are relatively easy to find.

The others lesser known but of Superb quality and definitely of note are:

Shrfu Shi Zhengzhong (Head of Ponglai group)
Shrfu Kevin Brazier (Tainan Mantis)

Most of the Video coming out of Mainland China on Manits are pretty much sad. So I wouldn't worry about them.

For the time being my be take the time to check out the mantis communities online, do some researches and contact those groups that you find helpful to your needs.

Hope this help and good luck in your journey, m_s_ifland.

Regards

Mantis108

[Supervillian]

Shrfu Kevin's video on Babu Lien Huan is excellent. I use it for reference all the time, especially when I can't make it down to Tampa to train. I heared that Kevin might be making another video in the future, I would definitely pick it up if he did......(hint hint kevin:))

I did not know that Master Shr made a video! Does anyone know where to order it?

Peace

[yu shan]

I agree that Shrfu Kevin Brazier`s Babu Lien Huan video is a must for your collection. It is loaded with quality information. Rumor has it, he is working on his second. Any word on the release date?

How does one go about obtaining Shi ZhengZhong`s video(s)?

I also had the chance for a sneak preview of Ilya Profatilov`s historical video, looking very much forward to this one coming out.

[m_s_ifland]

Man, you guys are the greatest. I really appreciate all of your advice. The once or twice a month thing sounds pretty good, but I work over 60 hours a week and the rest of my time is spent with my fiancee and my son. I am a very diciplined person, I know that I won't get the full essence of the art from video, but it will give me a good place to start, and in the future if I can get closer to a school, I'll already be one step ahead.

Thank you again and keep 'em comin'(sources for videos)

[Tainan Mantis]

MS,
Check out the short clips right here on this very forum. The thread is called quicktime clips, started by me.
When you see us wearing the striped blue uniforms it is excerpts from my video.
There is also a thread somewhere around here that goes into details of that vid I made.

The Shr Zhengzhong video's will be sold by him when he goes to the states for a seminar.

Also, John is coming here this month. Maybe he can pick up and sell the Shr Zheng Zhong vids when he returns to the states.

About my next video.
I don't like the long explanation type videos which go into agonizing detail about each move.

I like entertainment!
So the next vid will have a lot of reckless fighting with me beating the crap out my students and (sadly for my skill) them doing the same to me.

Then there will be explanations of the principle involved in what ever move hit its mark and showing a specific training method for that technique.

A small problem is that my students all quit when we get ready to do this as my personality is too abrasive.

One of Yushan's students is coming for a visit thoguh, maybe I can get him into it before he gets sick of me.

[yu shan]

Tainan Mantis

I like the entertainment value, it`s what makes your video differant, the music is fun also! I personally think folks buying this video get more than they should. Shrfu Brazier was ever so giving, for such a small cost.

I will ask Shrfu Scolaro to (maybe) bring Shr Zhengzhong`s videos back with him. What are we to expect to see? Are these training videos? I`ve seen some stuff, which is a major treat.

My student Justin is a good martial artist. He suffered a small set-back with a broken hand while doing pai an. Tainan, he is honored to have this opportunity to train with you. He asked me, what do you think I should learn from your gongfu Uncle? My answer, your in good hands. He does not mind being smacked around and I promise he will not get sick of you. Thank you sir for taking him in. Remind him to bring his Shrfu...spring tea.

[Tainan Mantis]

Shrye's video is Beng Bu and Lanjie.
The Beng Bu video does the entire form fast.
The road by road fast and slow.
The slow way is the tradional methof of teaching, very unlike what you see in most modern videos.

It is based on the saying," Chu shou kuei pan jia man(literally; hands attack quickly, hold posture slowly)."

It is a principle to remember when doing forms as a beginner or as a warm up.

It means that the motion from posture to posture follows the original speed and intensity, but each posture is held for a long time.

This is the way his shrfu's taught him.
There was no explanation of a move or slo mo demo by the master.

The move is done one way and it is the student's responsibilty to work the move until it is perfected.

This can be seen in the tape as he does the form just this way for the benefit of the camera.

Both tapes show the applications to all the moves.
There are no 2 person training drills, though.

Both tapes also have the same set of basic exercises and drills as well as a short demo of some other forms.

These drills include the traditional roads of Mimen PM.
I recall he didn't put them all there though.
There were only 7 originally.

BTW, That Mimen style of teaching. There were 7 roads of basics which the student must stay with for about 6 months.

Then start the first form, which is lanjie.

The video's are short and not cheap.
But for students and grandstudents of Ponglai it is the only chance to see these 2 forms, especially Beng Bu the way it is done by Shr Zheng zhong.

This would be invaluable to the overseeas students who don't train with him here on a regualr basis.

Look forward to training with Justin.
BTW, what is spring tea(chun cha)?

We have green, black and wulong and variations of these.
Well, I'll help him get soemthing that I think is good.

[EarthDragon]

Tainan,
I would be interested in getting a copy of your tape, please PM me with the details, thank you

[Tainan Mantis]

ED,
I brought that old thread back to life.