Question about the Zhenzhou/Shaolin Tourny in Oct this year

[sean_stonehart]

Gene... with the big tournament this October at Shaolin in Henan, do you know how much, if any attention will be directed at the temples in Fujian?

[GeneChing]

None probably. Last I heard, the Fujian temples have not been recognized by the Abbot. My guess is that he's waiting until they get their act together. It's a bit of a problem that there are three competing temples in Fujian, all vying for the same title.

[Eddie]

I hear that this tournament also have a traditional division? Judging is based on Modern Wushu principles?

You know more Gene??

[norther practitioner]

I think it is in association with the first world traditional championships. I think US Wushu Kung Fu has some info on there site.

[GeneChing]

...but I have no idea how it will be judged. I doubt it will be judged using modern wushu principles because of the new difficulty factors introduced to modern wushu. I can't see that working. But it might have the same judging system where each judge looks at a separate factor. That was how traditional was judged when I competed in Jinan in '91.

BTW, did you know that modern wushu requires 10 judges for each conpetitor in mainland China now?

[Eddie]

I was told by our local wushu federation people that there will not be any san da. Also, the forms will be judged exactly like the contemporary forms. This caused quite a stir in our local MA community as many traditional masters complained about this. One simple example is this, in Bajiquan you have the raking fist. The Wushu Fed rules said that a fist must be completely clenched, and arm must be extended. If your fist is not completely clenched, you will loose .2 points. There are other examples with spear, broadsword and a few other things.

The question is, is this then still a traditional tournament?

I do understand their idea behind the whole thing, but there is often a difference between theory and practice.

Any one with more info?

[GeneChing]

...we'll just have to go and see.

There was an initial situation where they were posturing this like the World Wushu Games, where teams would have to qualify from any given country, which lead to a bit of controversy here in the USA because of the politics around our NGB. USAWKF claimed to be the only ones who could officially send a team, but now many other federations are claiming to have received invitations, so we're still not sure what is going to happen. What's the word in other countries?

Since this is a new thing, we'r eboind to run into obstacles. Such is the nature of uncharted territory. It brings up the time old question of how you compare the different styles. But on the whole, it sounds like a step in the right direction.


A traditional wushu festival at Shaolin with forms and san da divisions. Wow...that’s just a veritable plethora of oxymorons. Is it? Shaolin has been holding traditional tournaments with platform san da for years. But this isn't actually at Shaolin, it's in Zhengzhou, which is an hour or so away...

[Eddie]

I was told there isnt going to be san da. u know anything gene?

[GeneChing]

I'm afriad I don't know about san da or lei tai. Actually, I know very little about this tournament. I suspect this is because it's still in development.

[Golden Arms]

I have been planning on going there if they have fighting divisions. Was just debating getting my tickets last week in fact. Cool to see other KFO people might as well.

[GeneChing]

I'm going. I didn't think I was going last week, but my boss has already booked my ticket. Oct 16, 2005 - the FIRST World Traditional Kung Fu Championships to be held in Zhengzhou, Henan, China.

[norther practitioner]

I thought you said Gigi was going....

I'm sure you'll supply a good report.. I haven't heard anything about Sans Shou, however, I think that if you are planning on going, you need to be affiliated with USWKF...

[GeneChing]

We're both going. How often does that happen?

As for our affliation, as international press, we don't really need to go through the USAWKF. We have our own connections with the IWuF and Shaolin Temple. ;)

[spaz_dragon]

hey gene! this is vara. i'm not 100% sure yet, but i believe that i'm going! i'm waaaay too excited. words cannot describe. i just hope i can get back in shape in time, lol. ankle is still out for now :mad: .

[Pk_StyLeZ]

lucky people
i wanna go to!!!!!!

[spaz_dragon]

go go!!!

[Red Rain]

Does anyone here know of a travel agency best suited to provide travel arrangements for a trip of this nature?

[Shaolinlueb]

i wanna go too :(. i have the cash, i should jsut do it.

[GeneChing]

Right now, the USAWKF (http://www.usawkf.org/news/2004/news_07-20-04.htm) is providing a tour package and there are claims that they are the only authorized group to go through for Americans. I'm not sure how it's being handled in other countries and I'd be interested to hear from anyone here outside the USA who might know about this. If you're going to try and do it on your own, I always recommend C.I.T.S. (http://www.dfinertour.com) for travel near Shaolin.

[Pk_StyLeZ]

i wanna go..but dont tink i can..and dont really wanna travel to china all by my self..lolz..and i got school and work...sux.....
record lots of footage....and upload it..=D =D..and let us watch...lolz

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Pk_StyLeZ
i wanna go..but dont tink i can..and dont really wanna travel to china all by my self..lolz..and i got school and work...sux.....
record lots of footage....and upload it..=D =D..and let us watch...lolz


yah, madg;ls, astajoi ask atioh lkahtoi boyz ayouta akhoui aslkn!

[SimonM]

I might try to go. How long does it ususally take to travel from Hangzhou to Zhenzhou? Can you do it by bus or do you need to use a plane to get there in 24 hrs or less?

[South Paw]

Gene wrote:

None probably. Last I heard, the Fujian temples have not been recognized by the Abbot. My guess is that he's waiting until they get their act together. It's a bit of a problem that there are three competing temples in Fujian, all vying for the same title.

This sounds strange to my ears, because the South Shaolin Temple in Putian Province is run by the former abbot of the North Shaolin temple.

Kind regards,
KPE

[South Paw]

Gene wrote:

Right now, the USAWKF is ...... and there are claims that they are the only authorized group to go through for Americans. I'm not sure how it's being handled in other countries and I'd be interested to hear from anyone here outside the USA who might know about this.

Hello Gene,

Here is my story how it worked in the Netherlands. The Netherlands Wushu Federation (NWF), who like the USAWKF is member of the IWUF, has got an invitation. But they are not sending a team, because they are mostly involved in modern Wushu.

I heard of two persons that are going. Actually they are Sifu, that have schools. One doing HG will be entered through the Hong Kong Martials Arts Association. The other one doing CLF is part of a team of his Sifu in the USA !!!

Kind regards,
KPE

[GeneChing]

That's kinda funny - going through the US. As for the 'northern temple abbot' that's a bit of a misnomer. If they mean the Songshan Temple, no actual abbots are alive accept for the current one. There are, however, several senior monks that served as 'honorary' abbots during the gap between this abbot and the previous one. You might take a look at my cover story (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397) for our Nov/Dec 2003 Shaolin Special. It discusses this.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by GeneChing
Right now, the USAWKF (http://www.usawkf.org/news/2004/news_07-20-04.htm) is providing a tour package and there are claims that they are the only authorized group to go through for Americans. I'm not sure how it's being handled in other countries and I'd be interested to hear from anyone here outside the USA who might know about this. If you're going to try and do it on your own, I always recommend C.I.T.S. (http://www.dfinertour.com) for travel near Shaolin.


ugh for that price i can go for half a year over to master hu's school.

[GeneChing]

China has been getting more and more expensive every year - it'll cost more next year. But I always encourage everyone who can travel to do so. You learn so much travelling.

[GeneChing]

Here's the info I have for the 1st World Traditional Wushu (Kung Fu) Championships in 2004

10/15: Arrival and registration
10/16: AM: Meetings. Noon: Welcome Banquet. Eve: Opening Ceremony and Gala Night
10/17-18: Competition & Thesis Seminar
10/19: Welcome ceremony in Dengfeng, Shaolin Temple visit
10/20: Competition & Thesis Seminar. Eve. Closing ceremony
10/21: Departure, sightseeing or Duan exams.

See you there!

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by GeneChing
We're both going. How often does that happen?




that sounds extremely cool Gene, and since I'm stranded here time being, should I rock up???


If I do, what can I expect to see?????

B

[cerebus]

"what can I expect to see?"
Probably the soles of Gene's shoes as he runs away from you! :p :p :p

[blooming lotus]

he'd be there to work, I'd be there to observe, and considering sex was off the cards and I might ask a question better left in the too hard basket, you just may be correct ;) :cool:

[GeneChing]

Those would be black feiyue shoes (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=546), no less. It's bad luck to see the bottom of my shoes, since I'm either running away or kicking you in the face. :D

I have no idea what to expect really, which is one of many reasons why I am going. As for a rendezvous with BL, wouldn't that make the forum go nuts here, not to mention the administrator, yours truly, in a very real and literal sense - just what the hell does "sex off the cards" mean? Do I really want to find out? :eek: All I can say, BL, if you want to come, it's up to you. It's a free country, well, maybe not, but the choice is yours. There is a standing tradition of taking photos of anyone who participates in the forums for the mag, and a BL shot would be outrageous I'm sure, assuming you can keep yourself from getting banned until we go to press. ;)

[blooming lotus]

look Geno, bann me if you feel it's justified, I'll rock up if I choose, and excpect you to come good on the drink or several you offered to shout me . Alot can happen in 2 weeks though and I'll see you there or I 'll read about it.


Ps: So If I pose with you, do I get that subscription discount??

[GeneChing]

Looks like you got yoruself banned (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=532770#post532770). Frankly, I didn't thnk it was justified at all, but since you asked for it, well, you get what you ask for. It's a policy here to always ban people when they asked to be banned becuase it's simply riduculous to do anything else. So the modelling is off, as I said in my previous post on this thread.

As for anyone else who might be going, they've put up a new site (http://www.wushu.org.cn) about the event. I'm getting the feeling that this is being positioned to replace the Shaolin festival, which was declining in attendance in the past few years and had a disasterous turn last year with SARS.

[GeneChing]

I started packing last night and will leave for Zhengzhou in 3 days. Anyone else going? Anyone?
:cool:

[MasterKiller]

What's with the Hindu elephant mascot?

http://www.wushu.org.cn/linkpage/images/jxw.jpg

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by GeneChing
I started packing last night and will leave for Zhengzhou in 3 days. Anyone else going? Anyone?
:cool:

usa has like 55 competitors. i know modern wushu people going. will there be any? thought it was only traditional? :confused:

[GeneChing]

The elephant mascot has been usde for Shaolin festivals for some time now. I ran a pic of the mascot all the way back in our Shaolin special 2000 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=152) when I first started covering the festival. I've never understood it. There is a white elephant in Buddhism, but given the bindi, the mascot does look clearly more Hindu.

As for the modern wushu competitors, I've been to traditional kung fu tournaments in China before and there's always someone who shows up and does something modern. :rolleyes:

The tournament promises to be really huge. They used to do this thing where they lined the streets with performers from Dengfeng to Shaolin Temple - about 7 miles. It's an awesome sight - too big to really digest. The rumor is that they will try to do the same thing from Zhengzhou to Dengfeng, which is ten times that distance.

[norther practitioner]

Have fun Gene...

(try to get us some footage).

[GeneChing]

We just got a new videocam and digicamera here at the office, plus this spanking new digital recorder. :cool:

[norther practitioner]

So, learn how to use them, so we don't have any dumb excuses when you get back.;) :D

[GeneChing]

Actually, I've already used the digicamera for a shoot I had to do in SF a few weeks ago. As for the vidoecam, it looks pretty straight forward, akin to most designs we've worked with before. The recorder is new - that one I'll have to figure out. It'll give me something to do on the long flight over there.

[Shaolinlueb]

nice gene. get some good stuff!

so if the modern wushu people are sending people then what the hell kinda of tournament is it gonna be? :confused:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

I heard , maybe even on this thread that the shaolin festival has been cancelled in lieu of wushu worlds. Is this correct??

[Buddy]

You mean read not heard, right Leggo? I mean, all you do is read and spew.

[spaz_dragon]

hey gene! it's "kwando girl", lol. it seems as if i'm going as well! man, i'm so nervous. i'm hoping the adreline will overcome my pain in ankle, tee hee. hope to see you there!!!!

[GeneChing]

Awesome! We'll have to hook up! Anyone else from Guolin's coming? I know Jamel was trying to go and was working to try to scrouge up funds.

As for the Shaolin festival, it looks like they will try to integreate this festival and the Shaolin International Festival into one event. Now I should clarify for those who don't know Shaolin and it's magnitude - there are many Shaolin festivals. For instance, the Grade "A" tournament I covered in our Shaolin special 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397) is between the top 25 schools (there is also a Grade "B" tournament which covers the other 55 schools). There is allegedly an internal Temple tournament which I've been trying to see for years. There's even a TKD tournament. But the one that most of us think about is the Shaolin International Festival, which I covered with Martha Burr in our Shaolin Special 2000 (festival 6) (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=152) and our 2002 special (festival 7) (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=144). It originally started off as an annual event, and then went to biannual on odd years (our coverage didn't come out until the following year because of publication times - for example, our Nov Dec is on stands now, so they same thing will happen with this event). They cancelled 2003 at the last minute because of SARS. In the past, these tournaments were more for foreigners so you saw all sorts of stuff, modern wushu, traditional, you name it. The schools demonstrated, mostly Taguo, with these huge displays, sometimes up to 1000 synchronized atheletes on the field at once - it's an amazing sight to behold.

We'll see what the future holds for this event. It's the first one, so it's a bit premature to make any predictions.

[spaz_dragon]

hey gene! yes, jamel is coming. so just the 2 of us...this year, tee hee. if we do this next year, i really hope more people can come from our school. it was just bad timing...since most of them are in school, lol. i look forward to seeing you and gigi :):) did you know that jamel and i are stopping off in san francisco?

[GeneChing]

Did you know that your master and my boss talked yesterday about the trip? It looks like we'll be travelling together. You master was kind enough to help us arrange some meetings and such. He even offered to bring some
got qi (http://store.martialartsmart.net/tshirgotqi99.html) t-shirts for us as friendship gifts (personally, I don't think the whole 'got qi' thing works in China since they don't drink milk and aren't familiar with the ad campaign). So I'm sure we'll see each other. It'll be fun to hang out with you and Jamel, my shaolin cousins. See you there!

[norther practitioner]

Have fun...

*******z


Yeah, I'm jealous.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hi Gene,

How's your trip going so far? Hope you're having a good time. Please send the full details of the festivals to BL, if you have the itinary even better! If you don't have her contact details, please PM to me and I'll make sure she recieves it in good time.

EE

[Songshan]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
I heard , maybe even on this thread that the shaolin festival has been cancelled in lieu of wushu worlds. Is this correct??

I heard of this too and also understand that the Zhenzhou/tourney in Oct is replacing the Shaolin festival. Is this correct or false???? :confused:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

unfortunately despite everyones " great efforts" on behalf of shaolin and perpetuating it , the story is true!!!!!

[spaz_dragon]

lol, i can imagine walking around the tournament seeing people wearing the "got qi" shirts...having no idea what it means. it's all good though. that's cool that they're doing that too!

[White_Boy]

Well I got back 2 nights ago from the Zhengzhou Tournament. Over all it was pretty good. Some of the judging was off because as we suspected, it was Wushu judges looking at traditional stylists, but I think in the end most things panned out...

The Shaolin festival on the sunday before the events began was the most amazing diplay of Martial Arts in the history of Martial Arts Demos. It had to be about 20 miles of continuous Kungfu by the different students from the DengFeng Schools. The guides told us it was over 40, 000 martial arts students and over 10,000 volunteers from the town. Not only that but it looked like the rest of the town was there too just to watch as out busses roll by.
The tournament had a total of 62 countries, 160 different teams/groups, and over 2100 competitors!!!

In the end it was worth the trip, dispite the competeing against Wushu people and the strange judging scores. I can't wait to see if they can pull it off next year.

[spaz_dragon]

i totally agree about the shaolin festival. it was the most touching memory for me. they really went all out for this, and i feel proud that i was part of it! the entire experience was awesome!!!! man, i really want to go next time they have one! i heard it's every other year...must train hard!

[GeneChing]

They were supposed to have a Shaolin festival last year but it was cancelled due to SARS. So they should have one next year (2003 then 2005) but it will most probably be postponed because they spent it all for this event. The World Traditionals are planned to be every four years, and a hoping to travel to different countries, like the World Wushu Games. At this point, no other country is willing to try and follow up what Zhengzhou just did, so no one knows what will happen next. We may get another Shaolin festival in 2006. Some postulated that that the World Traditional will stay in Zhengzhou, and it might alternate with the biannual Shaolin festival, but at this point, it's way too early to tell.

Since we have a few threads on the World Trads, I'm going to focus my attention on this one, just to keep it simple.

[Shaolinlueb]

pictures gene, any at all you could share?
I know you take tons of snaps that never make it into the mag. so why not share? :D ;)

[GeneChing]

I probably will post some but I gotta sift through some 20 hours of footage and five digital memory cards - so it's a lot of stuff. So be patient. Until then, be content with firepalm's thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=33287)

ngokfei asked (on this thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=541497#post541497)) about feedback.

Doc Fai Wong and Jason competed - they registered under Hong Kong but flew USA colors. That was almost grounds for disqualification.

The three sons of Lam Jo (including Lam Chun Fai) competed.

As for golds, anyone scoring in the top 20% of their pool won a gold, top 30% was silver and top 50% was bronze. Although I heard that some people received medals that didn't compete. It was more like the traditional Confucian examination system that the Olympics.

As for who qualified on the USA team, well, that's a huge pandora's box. There were Americans competing on many teams beyond the USA (Americans on Lam Chun Fai's HK team, for example). This happened with several countries. Many independant teams competed and they were more like schools or clubs.

Don't know anything about the Forbidden city.

[ngokfei]

another cluster f...

What kind of tourney has more than 1 gold per division.

By the way, what were the divisions? Anything like
mens southern
mens northern
mens staff
etc.

Just kind of hokey to give out so many medals. And they wonder why Wushu won't make the olympics.

And yeah if your from the states you'd expect to be on the US team. But hey, heard that Sifu Goh had students competing with less then a years expereince, go figure.

Still in all it must of been an awsom event. Wish I was there. To see so many high level sifu's there and to even see them peform/compete.

eric

[GeneChing]

There's a long standing tradition of this multiple gold awards in China. It actually traces back to the system of Confucian examinations, but then was renewed under Communist influence. Under communism, the notion of first place was contrary to the idealogy, so they re-established the examinations system, awarding competitors with levels - 1st, 2nd, 3rd and such. This was sort of the infancy period of modern wushu. Awards for outstanding achievement were also given, sort of a sideways way of acknowledging the winners of the day.

There were lots of divisions - the classical weapons divisions, the internals, shaolin, nanquan, but seeding the traditionals into that had its problems, as you might expect, nanquan being the most problematic IMO. There were divisions by sex and age. My favorite division was the other E catagory - that was all the unclassifiable stuff by old masters - a lot of stuff I'd never seen before - the weapons were particularly interesting.

As for Goh's team, you have to understand that this was an open for many countries. For example, HK sent 23 teams, some with as few as one member and one coach, others, like HK Chin Woo sent a whole busload. So it was a lot of private schools and clubs. There was also an official team - a HK 'A' team - that was determined by a tournament and sponsored. The others came on their own accord. America's approach was unique since all teams had to be USAWKF.

[Horse Power]

America's approach was unique since all teams had to be USAWKF.

Gene,

Actually this was not unique.
All National Wushu Federations associated with the IWuF were invited. Only when a country did not have a National Wushu Federation they were allowed to send a team that presented that country.
In reality those rules were obviously violated.

National Wushu Federations cannot pretend they also present all traditional wushu (kung fu) in their respective countries.

[GeneChing]

This event was under the auspices of both the International Wushu Federation and the Chinese Wushu Association, but it was not like the World Wushu Games. No proof of citizenship was required and although many countries did run qualifiers (many of dubious validity) private teams were allowed to participate.

The USA fielded the largest unified team with every member in the same team jacket. Our team was divided by regions - Boston, Baltimore, DC, Florida, Chicago, Texas, SF, Silicon Valley, LA and San Diego. Other countries fielded multiple teams, each in a different jacket. For example, Japan fielded the following teams: Japan Wushu Taijiquan Federation, Hokkaido Traditional Taijiquan Research Institute, Fukuoka Huali Taijiquan Federation, Huajiaqun Federation, Shaolin Wushu Federation, Song Mountaint Shaolinquan Federation, Shaolin Temple Wushu Qigong Federation, Shaolin Temple Qigong Association, Japan and China Taijiquan Interchange Federation, Fukuaka Taijiquan Federation, Taijiquan Lianshen Federation, Osaka Chen Style Tiajiquan Institute, Yuanlong Taijiquan Interchange the Federation, and the Chen Jing Taijiquan Research Association. If any nation would be unified, you'd think it would be Japan, but they didn't even send an "A" team like Hong Kong. There were also teams for almost every province of China (only Henan fielded both an "A" and "B" team) as well as an extraordinary team from the Chinese Wushu Association. Boht HK and Japan are IWuF members, so if the USA was not unique, shouldn't HK and Japan been just like the the USA team?

India fielded only one lone athlete, not even a coach. So really, there was an incredible range of diversity in the teams and for all intrinsic reasons, except where the USA was concerned, this was an open tournament.

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Trips: The First World Traditional Wushu Festival (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvd-gc001.html) is available. Here's the story (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=576), or at least part of it.