tai ji tang lang video

[puja]

Lately some friend of mine sent me the link to this video (http://www.jiayo.com/videos/taiji_tanglangquan.mpg) of a tai ji tang lang routine. As my own knowledge of the various tang lang substyles is quite limited, I'd like some of you to comment on this clip.
I recognize some of the techniques from tai ji mei hua and 7* mantis routines i know in a slightly different variation and I can see quite a similarity to tai ji mei hua in execution of the techniques as he also emphasizes the movement of hip and especially waist. For me it kind of looks like a tai ji mei hua routine i don't know only moving slower and with an accentuation on giving an impulse at the end of each technique ;)
So what do you think of this video? Perhaps some of you who do tjpm (mantis108?) could tell us more about the routine (name, beginner or advanced,...).

thx,

puja

[Tainan Mantis]

Sun De's student doing Beng Bu.
Definetly not Wushu style.

[German Bai Lung]

There was a discussion about the form already:
TJPM Form (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29148)

[puja]

bai lung,
thx, for the link to the thread. I wonder why I didn't find it before opening this thread :confused:

[mantis108]

Tainan is right about the form.

I was told the person, who is doing the Bengbu, is related to Sun De. I believe Sun De is from Taiji Tanglang's Cai Shou Shan's lineage. I have not met them and I was told that they are very nice people. It would seem that they have helped to promote Taiji Tanglang to the world via seminar and VCD.

I have made comments about the clip before and some have agreed with me that it is more show than substance in this clip. I hope that this is just a performance for performance sake. Perhaps it is an individual expression and it should not reflect negatively on their lineage. Unfortunately, I have not seen any application from Sun De whom I believe had demonstrated a few on another VCD. So I can't accurately comment on the performance. I believe one can only tell the depth of other's teaching by looking at the applications and the drills that lead to the application. Form in itself does not tell you much.

As for the form, Bengbu, it is one of the very interesting and controverse form. I believe it made its debut in Yantai county, Shandong, when Jiang Hualong was teaching there. According to Ilya Profatilov's research, there seems to be a Quanpu that dated back to 1842 (there's is another version that it is about 10 years later). However, the 7 Stars lines point to the fact that Li Sanjian (1821-1850) taught Bengbu and Luanjie. So it would be possible that Bengbu already existed just before Jiang Hualong (1855 - 1924) and Wang Yongchun (1854 - 1926). It is of note that Jaing and Wang became known as Yantai Wulao (5 elders of Yantai City). According to a source they were also sworn brothers at that point. Did they swarp material? Did they come across a similar source? That's a big mystery.

Technically, the Bengbu form of TJPM and Seven Star are largely similar but as Tainan would put it there are "markers" that seperated them apart.

The most obvious and notable are the entire first road and the last few moves of the ending road.

TJPM lineages that descend from Jiang Hualong perform the first road of Bengbu similar to the first road of Meihualu, which is undoubtedly the creation of the Jiang Hualong.

It is interesting though that Jiang taught a version of Bengbu arround Haiyang county that didn't have this heavy marker.

This is why Bengbu is seemingly different from branch to branch.

BTW, Bengbu is also Wushudized and collected in Taguo Shaolin Wushu text book. It is a terrible and disgusting immitation of the original form.

Hope this helps. :)

Warm regards

Mantis108

PS, Thanks GBL for bringing the old thread up. :) I will PM you right the way.

[puja]

mantis108,
thx for the profound and very helpful information. It's very interesting to learn a bit of the backgrounds of our style and as I'm quite new to tang lang I don't have that much knowledge of these things.
I think you're right about the form not telling you much of the performers depth of teaching. Many people do forms only "for performance sake" but do the applications in another way working properly.

btw, sorry for having doubled the thread about this clip. I think it's better leaving this one and posting to the old one instead.

puja

[mantis108]

You are most welcome. I am glad that you enjoyed the post. Are you one of the Hao family TJMHPM in Germany? I think there is a website but I lost the link while I move to this new laptop. :(

BTW, you might want to get a hold of Mantis Quarterly which is a publication by Sifu Cottrell in the states. It has a lot of informative articles, concerning all things mantis, by mantis stylists all over the world including Sifu Lee Kam Wing, Sifu Cottrell, Sifu Kevin Brazier, Sifu Brendan Tunks, and many many others. Check with your teacher. If he hasn't subscribed yet, you might want to convince him of doing that.

Here's the link:

Mantis Quarterly (http://www.mantisquarterly.com)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[puja]

I think you mean http://www.haojiamen.de/ by shifu Gerhardt Milbrat (chin. Yang, Sung-Feng). He's a friend of my shifu Arne Grandt and I've heard that he besides Hao Jia Men has started learning TJMHPM under GM Zhang Wan Fu (from Tsingtao) for several years now. My shifu Arne Grandt started learning first 7*PM then TJMHPM under shifu Heiko Klisch, but now is a direct student of Zhang Wan Fu for several years. As far as I know shifu Heiko Klisch (
Wu Dao (http://www.wudao.de/) hisself doesn't learn from Zhang Wan Fu anymore. To be honest I don't know whom he learns from at the moment.
btw, our website is http://www.tanglang.de/ :)
I know of Mantis Quarterly. I even have the first 2 issues and we were planing on subscribing soon. Only my shifu is on holiday till next week so I'll have to wait and remind him when he's back ;)

best regards,

puja