Foa Gie

[Green_Tea]

Today I was ready to kick some "grass" even though the day hit 95 out and all those partaking in the upcoming tournament get to go outside and practice in the black parking lot. I have realllllllllllly been working on my yees. I sometimes forget to do them. By the end of the day I still thought my yees sounded more like an angry housewife pelting her husband with a vacuum cleaner for not taking out the garbage. But at least they were louder.

But.

I felt something I rarely feel, though I think I ought to feel more often. Perhaps this was the third or fourth time since joining the Wah Lum family, only before it came from an utter determination not to fall over when we were totally being grinded up in practice. Even though my yees didn't properly express it, I felt a build up right above my eyes, perhaps back a bit. Maybe it made me squint but whatever it was, my vision got a bit blurry. It was like when that girl you hate steals your boyfriend, only minus the incredible heat in the back of your head. If I could see my eyes, I'd picture them ultra atomic Godzilla green (as oppose to just normal atomic green), and somehow sweating. One of the sihings came by and said I never looked angrier. But it wasn't an anger, it was like a focus. Could this be foa gie?

I feel like Jack Skeleton: what is this? What is this? :p

On a completely random side note, is anyone else on here on Live Journal? My user name's "nymphie" if you'd like to stop by sometime and say hello.

[mantiskilla]

sounds like heat stroke.
________
married woman Webcams (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/housewives/)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

That's not Foa Gee, more like focus or intent. Or maybe heatstroke like mantiskilla said. :) If it was Foa Gee you wouldn't look angry, and I don't think I've ever heard an angry yee.

When you fight in anger you've already lost.

[isol8d]

Originally posted by shanghai_kid
I feel a bit out of it when I read these posts.

What's "yee" and what's "foe gee"?

Yee is olde english for you.

Oh yeah, and it's the vocalization of power when striking.... like a kee-ya or something....

Foe gee means control...

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Just as a caution.. if you are focusing on the "sound" or its intensity you may have missed the point.. the Yi is a by-product of the form and the energy it projects, not a separate focused act.. to focus on the sound and intensity to make it "seem" powerful is much like putting loud exhaust pipes on a standard car.. it only "sounds" good.. You will be judged on your form, not your vocals..

Be well..

[Green_Tea]

Thanks for everyone's replies! I guess it's hard for me to explain what's going on, and being that I'm still a newbie, I probably don't quiet recognize what's going on yet. I'd like to consider myself a very intraspective person, though I probably border on too self analytical ;).

mantiskilla, Heat stroke? Heh heh :). I guess it's possible, though I drank atleast 20 oz. of water in just that time. The few times I have felt heatstroke it was more of a dizzy, loopy, confused feel, this was like an absolute focus pin pointing exactly one specific thing, without the thousands of multi- tasking I do on a regular basis. If I had to give a "visualization" to it, it'd be like the rack focusing they did in the Fellowship of the Rings... if that makes any sense?

Hua Lin Laoshi, I agree with you about anger destroying it. Perhaps my sihing meant another word, like, "intense"? Though who knows. I guess the main thing was that there was some sort of recognizable change about me. Like I said, I wasn't angry in the least bit, just extremely concentrated. Anyway, I know Foa Ge means "control", but I thought perhaps this was some sort of "bi- product" of it. Like we learn that part of control is knowing when you're in a bad situation and getting out of it before a fight occurs. I thought perhaps my body might be learning to control my ability to focus? I dunno if that makes since, I was a philosophy minor in college but I can't articulate myself every well *lol*. It's... it's metaphysicis! Yay, that's it! Heh heh.

TaiChiBob, I hope they judge me on my forms and not my yelling, heh heh, cause I think I sound silly. But my sifus and sihings have been pointing out that I need to do it more (or in my case, some at all) so I want them to know I'm trying. I know I shouldn't focus so much on the sound, it was probably because I was tired. I dunno, I'm a self conscious person anyway. Back when I was a rower, we would have these erg tests, an erg being the stationary rowing machine. I would let loose and just go for it on the sprints with grunts and funny red faces, and growls... and a lot of ppl would make fun of me because I sounded like- well, I sounded like I was doing something much more enjoyable than an erg test *lol*. So I guess I was just hoping I didn't sound like that again :).

:)

[Xdr4g0nx]

What style of mantis r u doin again? cuz i do HK praying mantis and i have never heard my sifu or my sihings make any audible sound when the are in the process of beating the living crap out of me:rolleyes: . I was just curious thats all.

[Green_Tea]

Hello!

I practice Wah Lum Tam Tui Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu.

I have heard several people say they don't do the yees. I dunno, I'm really new to it and martial arts in general. I've asked why we do it before and I was told it helps to expel your qi. Maybe they're encouraging me to do it because they see a problem in my forms and this is a step to helping me control my qi? Or it could be just a style thing where everyone does it as I hear it a lot when I see the demo team perform. I think there are some other Wah Lum students on here too that have been at it longer than me so maybe they can help me out? :)

[yu shan]

Green_Tea

You are a breath of fresh air! The Wah Lum creed of Learn kindness, learn fellowhip etc... you are the epitome of this! There needs to be more like you. As for the blurred vision and this build up, knowing central Fla heat, it was the heat. Wah Lum is very challenging physically anyway, and when you add the wonderful heat, there ya go.

The yee sound is unique to Wah Lum. Although years ago when I did Hung Gar, this sound was also used. Listen to your Si-Hings and Sifus, it might be a little early to ask detailed questions about expelling qi thru a tech. Get thru and enjoy all the intense early training. Pick some brains ... ask questions. If a Shifu named Dave Scott comes around, make friends.

I have been fortunate to work/train with the likes of Shifu Kevin Brazier, Shifu John Scolaro and Master Ilya Profatilov. None of these men made any noise while kicking my a s s.

The Asians in my life questioned the upside down fire sign, they claim this is just not right. According to them (Taiwan&Mainland) this turning a character over is strange. For those not in the WL world, over each Alter n School, there hangs the sign for fire. What they do is hang it upside down. Basically, keep the fire down below... cool head, hot feet!

Look forward to meeting you Green_Tea

[Tainan Mantis]

Yushan,
I didn't kick your *ss. We just played.
You probably didn't notice that I did mutter profane language though.

In Some PM styles there is a sound when doing the Hard Chi Gung-pai da gung.

They way Shr Zhengzhong teaches it there are 2 sounds. One is a little similar to the WL yee.

The other is similar, but not the same, as the Uechi Ryu(and other) body hitting exercises.

So the PM that includes this hard chigung known as 3 turns 9 rotations does have the sound.

But, the roots of the WL yee most likely have their roots in Southern styles as this is a very common characteristic of Southern styles to extend the hand or hands in the single finger fashoin and make a vocalization.

I have seen in WL's second road of Beng Bu/Big Mantis( Grean Tea, your shrfu will know this form, but you may not learn it for many years) that just where every one else performs the double sealing hand otherwise known as left ge elbow etc. that WL performs the single finger yee.

The WL yee move resembles very closely the way other northern PM schools do it as double sealing/left ge elbow.

Most likely this is a WL innovation that occured in HK as other WL folks not of the Chan Poi line have told me through confidential emails that Their version of WL nowhere contains a single finger yee move.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

MC once told us that the single finger Yee was an identifying characteristic intended to identify a particular group of people during a contentious period of China's history.. like a secret society handshake.. it was added as a pause in the conflict to allow for assessing the need for continuing, if the combatants were of the same group (same mindset) they would end the combat.. FWIW..

Be well..

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

TaiChiBob
That's my understanding as well. Leftover from the southern patriot days.

Although I have a bit of a Karate background I tend to not make much noise when practicing forms. Sometimes though when I get excited with a form I go into Karate mode and grunt here and there just because it's fun. I've never cared much for the yee sound. Too girly.

If you want to exhale on strikes then concentrate on the exhale and let the sound come natural. Don't try to force it into a specific shape. That's how we did it in Kenpo.

Some styles, like Choy Li Fut, have specific sounds for certain moves. I guess the different sounds are meant to force you to breathe (or to hold or slowly release breath) in a way that contributes to the power generation for that particular move.

Some of us picked up those sounds from training with Master Lee Koon Hung although that phase seems to have died out around the Temple these days.

[sayloc]

In Hung ga the single finger yee is some times called "Bridge hand". I think that fore arm techniques are sometimes referred to as "Bridges" In hung ga the single finger yee in the horse stance is called "mounting a horse with a single bridge" - Zuo ma dan qiao (Meaning you are in a horse stance with one hand extended out to the side with the index finger pointing up). You never straighten the arm completly. To me this is a forearm block. If you assume the single finger yee hand position from an open palm position you will feel the fore arm muscles tighten in a way that is hard to simulate with other hand positions. I think this makes for a harder fore arm while blocking and this may be the reason for the hand position.

There is also a single finger technique from a hill climbing stance off to the side called "Arousing doubts with a single finger" .

As for the Yee in the forms. This is ussually a pause point in many forms. You will all agree that most beginners do not understand the proper way to regulate the breathing. I believe that this is a way to teach beginners how to control the breathing or to "recenter". Most beginners or even advanced practitioners do not understand why they do it but it benifits them anyway.

If you cant control your breathing doing a form, You are probably are not going to be able to during a fight. If your breath is of your stances will be off, your tecnique will be off. your timming will be off.....

What are some other thoughts about breath control and fighting? I dont see much about this on this forum other than chi kung stuff or I just missed the thread.

I am not a "Master" so take it for what it is worth

[Green_Tea]

yu shan,
I am? Heh heh, how come? Anyway, thanks for answering my questions. I dunno, maybe the heat was affecting the semantic part of my brain and suddenly everything just made sense? *lol*. I will note it if it happens again, the last times were inside in November and again around February, I think? So Feb. was cold out but we were inside and everyone's body heat was warming the room up.

Tainan Mantis,
What is the single finger fashoin you were talking about?

TaiChiBob,
That's very interesting! So you're saying Praying Mantis kung fu brothers didn't want to battle each other?
----------------------------------

I did have a few other questions:
If the sound is unique to Wah Lum, if someone is judging me at the Nick Scrima tournament that is unfamilar with that aspect, will they count me off thinking I'm doing something wrong? Or do most of the judges know at least the basics of all the kung fu forms competing? Also, do we get to hear any feedback on what the judges thought of our forms? Maybe see a copy of the notes they took? Do they even take notes? Or just write down a score? I just wondered because when I took my first Wah Lum test they took notes. I thought that'd be helpful to see if available.

Also, I have seen several spellings for "sifu". Not that my spelling is "traditional" (Foa Gie ;)), but is that just a "Stephen Chiau vs. Chow" thing? Why do they change the spellings?

Thanks!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As Dave points out, it is during the Southern Patriot period.. a time of loosely organized militia/rebels and patriots.. individuals or groups that encountered each other may not know which side the other favored.. so as the posturing or conflict ensued someone would use the "Yee" and gesture to determine if the opponent was friend or foe.. over time the Yee was interpreted in light of Karate's noisy (and annoying) verbalizations..

I suggest that you watch almost any full-contact match and count the number of Yees or yells, more than zero would surprise me.. we can rationalize or contrive the noisy interjections for training purposes, but.. in application your mind and total being should be completely in the moment, not remembering to make noise.. in most cases i prefer stealth, quiet, and intensity to finish the conflict quickly and without drawing attention to the situation..

Be well.. live long and prosper..

[yu shan]

Tainan Mantis

OK how about we just say, you slapped me around a bit :) Anyway, it was a learning experience and I look forward to training with you in the future. Can the yees possibly be a "marker" in a WL form?

Green_Tea

There will be no note taking during the tournament. I use to take notes while testing folks, pretty sure all the Teachers in WL do this. Have you asked Master Chan about this feeling you got, he`d be the first I`d go to.

[Siuhoimoon]

There´s an old thread, named "Wind Fire hall / Pak Mei altar", where people tried to explain the "fire upside down" character.

As you can see, it´s not only a WL tradition... :)

Take a look at the old thread:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28165

[Green_Tea]

Originally posted by sayloc
In Hung ga the single finger yee is some times called "Bridge hand". I think that fore arm techniques are sometimes referred to as "Bridges" In hung ga the single finger yee in the horse stance is called "mounting a horse with a single bridge" - Zuo ma dan qiao (Meaning you are in a horse stance with one hand extended out to the side with the index finger pointing up). You never straighten the arm completly. To me this is a forearm block. If you assume the single finger yee hand position from an open palm position you will feel the fore arm muscles tighten in a way that is hard to simulate with other hand positions. I think this makes for a harder fore arm while blocking and this may be the reason for the hand position.

No kidding? We do what sounds like that exact pose in a hand form called Dropping Horse. I always wondered what the one finger up was for. I could have sworn I saw some pictures of Buddha making that hand gesture as well... Anyway, what you were saying about the yees as a way for breathing training was what I was thinking might be the case. Probably good for me as I have sometimes caught myself holding my breath. Wonder why some ppl do that? I guess I'm focusing on trying to correct something I know needs work?


Originally posted by sayloc
Have you asked Master Chan about this feeling you got, he`d be the first I`d go to.[/B]

No. I haven't been to class since it happened and since I have had time to reflect. I usually talk to Sifu Tu about things like this because I feel very close to him. I dunno, I'm always afraid that I'm getting in Sigung's way or something, I wouldn't want to bother him. Though I wouldn'treally know what to say, I mean I couldn't really properly articulate it to ppl that spoke English all their lives, I wonder if there would be some sort of language barrier? Though on the other hand it might be something that's easily explained approaching things from a more Eastern perspective... you know what, I'll ask a specific sihing when I see him. He was the one that told me most of what I know about foa ge so he might be able to best answer my question or if not be able to better "translate" it to someone who does :).

Siuhoimoon, thanks for the thread link! I had no idea other schools did it as well. I knew it wasn't a common thing.

[sayloc]

green tea

It is the exact posture as in your forms exercise pok ma.

Keep up the focus on the breathing. One reason many people find themselves being out of breath (besides being out of shape) is because beginners tend to hold there breath while doing a form or fighting. To keep it basic, doing the yee makes the person empty some of the air out of the lungs which forces them to get their breathing back on the right pattern.

I was taught as a personal trainer that as soon as you realize you are about to run or do some other type of exercise that the body begins to increase your heart rate and respirations on its own without you having to make the concious effort. The same thing happens at the end and the body automatically begins to slow down the respirations and heart beat. Maybe that is one reason for doing your I-bay and Sow?

I think you can see how these small things can help you in fighting even if you are practicing your forms.

There are many different levels in a form which will help you become a better fighter.

Of course you dont hear many full contact fighters yelling "yee" or "Kiah" while fighting. but if they are good I am willing to bet that they have mastered there breathing technique, but it may have started years earlier with a simple thing such as a "yee".

Sorry about the bad spellng, in a hurry today!

Keep training!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Nice perspective.. as long as the Yee is understood to be a training tool.. i think your explanation is noteworthy..

Be well..

[Green_Tea]

Yep, pok ma= dropping horse. Not sure if you knew the english name or not, just in case :).

That's a good theory about the i- bays and sows. I didn't know your body will automatically "prepare" itself, but it makes sense, I know how much mentality plays in the physical.

When we are doing iron bridge most of our sifus and sihings have us count outloud in Chinese. I'll bet that's to force us to breathe through that too because they're always reminding us to breathe. And they tell us when it starts hurting to concentrate on your breathing. It was amazing to me how much that prolongs your strength and abilities. Now whenever I am at work, I can tell when I am getting exhausted, not like a "I didn't have enough sleep" exhausted, but just a total lack of power tired, I do my own little "work version" of our Whut Yu Foreward Bend and I seem to get my second wind. Is there something in Chinese medicine linking the lungs to power at all?

Kung fu is funny. No wonder it means 'hard work". I considered myself to be in decent shape when I started, y'know, I went for runs, swims, didn't eat McDonald's everyday (or any day for that manner) but MAN talk about being put in your place! Kung fu class kicks my butt on a daily basis *lol*. But I like it in some ways, I know it's only making me improve, y'know? :)

BTW, does anyone else have a problem with the forums timing out on them? It seems like in the time it takes me to type out a reply it times out and then when I log back in it says something about "thread does not exist, please report this to the webmaster" and I have to hit the back button a few times. Maybe I'm just too slow? ;)

[My Main Mantis]

Green_Tea:


Also, I have seen several spellings for "sifu". Not that my spelling is "traditional" (Foa Gie ), but is that just a "Stephen Chiau vs. Chow" thing? Why do they change the spellings?

From what I understand (and if anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd actually love to hear more about it), the differences in spelling come from a lot of places...

First off, from what I undestand there are many widely accepted romanization schemes - Tongyong, Hanyu Pinyin, and the older Wades-Giles.

Hanyu Pinyin is apparently in widest use at the moment, though many places are switching or thinking of switching to Tonyong (a more Phonetically based romanization scheme).

The spelling differences are very slight, but an example would be Ching vs. Qing, or Chiu vs. Qu.

Top that off with personal differences in spelling passed down from master to student throughout the years, and you can see how there might be many opinions on how things should be spelled.

Again, if anyone knows any better or more accurate info on this subject, be glad to hear about it!

more info seems to be available at http://www.pinyin.info

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Most of the time it's just a simple matter of Mandarin vs Cantonese. Shrfu is written how it's pronounced in Mandarin (northern). Northern dialects tend to put the 'r' sound into everything. Therefore Laoshi (Mandarin for teacher) is pronounced Laoshr. Sifu is the southern pronunciation.

Shao Lin is Mandarin, Sil Lum is Cantonese.
Hual Lin is Mandarin, Wah Lum is Cantonese.

So Tanglang and Tonglong are both acceptable. As is Tam Toy and Tan Tui.

Confused yet? Welcome to the club. ;)