To PTP or not to PTP

[IronFist]

So I just finished about a 2 month mass cycle, except I didn't really gain any mass off of it. I gained some good muscular endurance, tho.

So I'm thinking about starting a 2-week PTP cycle today of Squat, Bench, and maybe weighted pullups. But part of me wants to do another mass cycle. Not like I'd actually gain any size, but they're fun.

I'm also afraid that I'll lose my endurance if I do PTP. Like, I know 2 weeks of only doing 5 reps wouldn't be that bad, but still.

So I was gonna do either one or two PTP cycles and then go back and do another mass cycle that is basically the same as the one I just finshed, except I'd be using a little heavier starting weights.

What do you think?

Strength or size. I'm keeping in mind that summer is on it's way and size is the superficial thing to do for summer. It probably doesn't matter, tho, a 2 month mass cycle is worth like 1lb for me, anyway :D

But I'm freaking pumped to do some PTP after I busted out that new PR in squat on Monday.

But heavy lifts don't impress girls on the beach. Um, unless you're side pressing them.

But most chicks lack the abdominal rigidity to be successfully side pressed, anyway.

^ I just started 3 paragraphs in a row with "but."

I'll end this rambling now.

[Toby]

Give in to the dark side. It is your only way out.

[fa_jing]

What's PTP?

[Toby]

Are you joking fa_jing?

In case you're not, PTP == Power To the People. Pavel's book/method. The whole 2 sets, 5 reps, 5lb increase, everyday lifting thing.

I thought you would've picked that up :confused:. It's only been discussed here a bazillion times :D.

[FooFighter]

Iron Fist:

Go for the two week cycle of PTP and then go into your Mass training, bro.

For me after my PTP cycle which I will done in about two weeks, I will go into a 8 week cycle of fat burning, power endurance using KBs, CBs, and iron circuit training to build a lean mean body. I want Bruce Lee's ab for the summer. I want the ladies to hollar when they see my abs.

<ONE>

[IronFist]

It's PTP for now.

Here's something weird. So last Monday I squatted a PR with 300 x 1. Today I started PTP with 200 x 5, which felt HARD. (two weeks ago I did 200 x 10 on the box) Then my next set was 180 x 5. Then I put 225 on and did a single just for fun and it wasn't that hard. wtf?

[FooFighter]

Iron:

Let me get this clear. You squat 200 5 rep assuming you rested 3-5 min rest.... then you squat 180 5 reps assuming you rested 3-5 min rest..... then for fun you squat 225 for 1 rep which felt easy.

Mmmm... I think it was more your neurological preparation or GTG that on your third heavy set that made it 'seem' easy. Then again maybe 'psychologically' you may have felt more confident and had a better performance? It reminds me of Poliquin principle or methodology he taught. It had something to do with the French, but my mind is blanking out on me now. Oh well, nevermind. I am getting older and dumber as i type. LOL. In your previous Mass cycle you were using your muscular system whereas in PTP you are now working on the neuromuscular system to build strength/power. There will be a world of difference once anyone crosses over to PTP from hypertrophy and vice versus.

[Toby]

Originally posted by FooFighter
In your previous Mass cycle you were using your muscular system whereas in PTP you are now working on the neuromuscular system to build strength/power. There will be a world of difference once anyone crosses over to PTP from hypertrophy and vice versus. Foo, it was his 1st day. He wouldn't be hammering his neuro pathways yet. Besides, 200x5 is much less than 200x10 on the box.

I think all the cardio he's been doing is messing with his slow twitch fibers, which we all know are what you use for these low weight sets that Iron does :D.

[IronFist]

^ lol, I thought you were calling him a "foo," until I remembered that was his screen name. Hahahahaha.

Actually, 200 x 5 felt hard cuz I'm a wuss. I only warmed up with the bar. I meant to do a 135 warmup but I didn't get around to it.

Also it was hard cuz I was hungry. I hate being hungry at the gym.

Also it was hard cuz my legs were sore from Monday.

Also it was hard cuz my legs don't like to do work.

PTP still uses the muscles. It's not like it only trains the nervous system. Your muscles still have to move the weight, and they still have to contract harder to move more weight.

But mostly, 200x5 was hard because all that thinking about doing cardio made me tired :p

[FooFighter]

Ok... I am a foo.

The best squat record was 100lb... LOL

[Toby]

:mad: I pity the foo who only squats 100lb. :mad:

:D

[FooFighter]

I forget to mention that I meant my best record was leg pressing 100lb. That was my best record yet using super slow technique, focusing on the negatives, and breathing out slowing while making noises. Yes, I think leg pressing 100lb is much safer than squating. I look really manly when I bring out those 35lb plates and 10lbs plates. The ladies luv it, trust me. Especially when you wear tight arse running shorts when you do leg work. They love my lean chicken drum sticks.

[Ford Prefect]

A good way to keep your muscular endurance is to do something Poliquin told me about one time when I was talking to him. When his athletes are cycling maximal strength - muscular endurance/hypertrophy cycles, he has them do standard hypertrophy 3-5x6-12 but when doing maximal strength he has them to 6-8x1-3 with an extra set at the end of 8 reps. (6-8x1-3; 1x8) This allowed them to keep their muscular endurance and in many cases it actually increased it due to phenomena (post-tentalic facilitation) he speaks of here:

http://t-mag.com/html/body_58princ.html

The above link isn't even a bad program if you wanted to do that one...

[stubbs]

why not cycle one week PTP and one week mass. mixes it up and u wont reach a plateau for some time
________
M156 engine (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M156_engine)

[Samurai Jack]

Hey I've been doin' that "Russian Bear" thing Iron, why not try that? You do your first two lifts PTP style, then drop 10% more and pump out as many sets as you can with thirty second breaks between.

So basically your getting PTP training and mass/volume training rolled into one. I'm loving it so far.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by stubbs
why not cycle one week PTP and one week mass. mixes it up and u wont reach a plateau for some time

Cuz one week isn't really enough for PTP to have any effect. You're just getting warmed up at the end of one week.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Hey I've been doin' that "Russian Bear" thing Iron, why not try that? You do your first two lifts PTP style, then drop 10% more and pump out as many sets as you can with thirty second breaks between.

So basically your getting PTP training and mass/volume training rolled into one. I'm loving it so far.

I don't want to do the Bear program again because it takes a while (more than 2 weeks) and it's still only sets of 5. I don't want to be doing sets of 5 for too long. I did bear for months and months once and then when I tried to do 135 for 12 I could BARELY get it. It was sad. 135 x 12 should be cake.

[Samurai Jack]

What kind of gains did you get off the program?

[fa_jing]

wait -- what's PTP?

[FooFighter]

Iron:

I have been on PTP for about a year and then some now and have not really squat. I have used different periodization methodology in PTP. I focused more on bench, deadlifts, and saxon press. My best record on bench has been 275 for 4 reps, deadlifts at 300lb for 3 reps, and saxon press at 75lb for 5 reps and like you I am at 165 with 12 percent body fat. I need to drop my body fat to 7% or lower, but I will look skinny? I dont want to look like a body builder however I always wanted to look like Bruce Lee since he and I share the same body type.

Instead of convetional squats, I have been doing pistols with weight or KBs. Mind you, I have nothing against squats and believe it is an awesome power movement. I always believed that pistols with weight will enhance my martial technical ability.
When I read that you were on the bear cycle and couldnt do 135 for 12 I was shocked! So I decided to try to squat 135 to failure and to my surprise I was able to squat 15 reps with no problem and could have done more but called it quits. I dont know why? I thought I would stop at 12 reps maybe? But 135 felt so god dang light.

[fa_jing]

No way Bruce Lee could've Bench pressed 275 for 4 reps. Great work dude.

[FooFighter]

Bin:

Thanks. Maybe Bruce Lee couldnt bench 275? But he sure can punch something serious to those who can bench 275, LOL. I am the same height and I have the same arm reach as Bruce. My forearms and Lats repond very fast when trained for mass like Bruce. However, my natural gung fu talent and Bruce's is not the same which sux for me, lol. I wondeedr if Bruce Lee share the same taste in women? Err nevermind. For the last three months, I have been focusing on single arm push ups and their variations and now I doubt if I even bench 180lb for reps?

[IronFist]

Samurai Jack - I got maybe a few pounds. Mass cycles don't really work for me. And yes, I eat a lot.

Foo - I HAVE to do squats. My body is evidently not designed for squatting and if I take off more than a week or two my weights go down down down. With DL I can take time off and still come back and be strong, but not squat.

Pistols for me don't seem to work my quads much. I've done killer squat workouts to the point where I can barely walk afterwards, and I can still knock off some pistols at that point. I don't know what they work, but it's not my quads. Also, at one point when I was REALLY busy with school work and I couldn't go to the gym, I was doing only bodyweight stuff. I did a bunch of pistols for a few months and when I tried to squat again I really couldn't do very much. So, that just might be my crazy physiology, tho. Most people don't seem to have that problem.

[FooFighter]

Iron:

If you feel that squating is vital and good for you, then do it. From what I understand from reading your post, you feel squating works your quad better; whereas doing pistols is inferior because once you tired your legs from conventional squats that you are able to knock off some pistols. This reasoning alone doesnt work for me and there is no way for me to see why the reverse is not possible? However, I would just argue that pistols can be as an effective exercise as convetional squats as long you have the proper load for max strength or hyperthrophy. In any case, if your goal is to target your quad for hyperthrophy, then either squats or pistols would be the best exercise. I believe you gain more muscle in your quads by doing leg extension which you can fatigue to the point of muscular failure perhaps after your sets of squats?

[fa_jing]

Don't know about BW pistols, but weighted pistols seem to hit the bottom of the glutes where it meets the hamstrings. Can hurt to sit the following day.

[FooFighter]

BiN:

I agreed when I do weighted pistols, my arse gets a good workout that even my present girl friend can tell a difference. <wink> I remember when I first started pistols I felt very sore in my glutes and quads. Performing BW and not weighted pistols is part of wing chun Sifu Alan Lee's exercise curiculum. He taught us to use the rope as a mean to help perform the pistol. When sifu Lee taught me the rope pistol, he told me to do as many as I can. When I asked, "Sifu, what is a good number?" He smiled and said, "A hundred. Ok, go." I was like "O, Man!" In any case, I might have been sore from doing other things in the kwoon?

If you want to activate more quads in the pistols with weight, then do them half way. Hold for 5-10 sec in the mid position and then go all the way down and then go back up. Repeat. Focus on the concentric and isometic movement of the pistol if you want to develop your quad. Here is something I have been playing with and to due a particular left ankle weakness. There is an unstable rubber inflated disc http://www.performbetter.com/detail.aspx_Q_ID_E_4407_A_CategoryID_E_231) used in therapy, one side is smooth and the other side is spikey. Place your primary foot on this disc and do your pistols without shoes. Start with no weight and when your balance gets better, gradually use weights. I promise your calves and legs will be in pain.

[IronFist]

Pistols probably do work most people's quads. I'm just a freak :)