View Full Version : siu nim tao in nyc

doug maverick
05-20-2001, 07:49 AM
i live and train in nyc my ex sifu paul koh who studied wing chun use to say wing chun in nyc is empty except for one teacher (my soon to be current teacher) V.A. thomas he said that in real wing chun the first form siu nim tao is down at a very very very slow pace slower then tai chi, and should take an hour to complete but in nyc all the wing chun schools do it at either a normal pace or very fast witch makes it empty wing chun and if the "root is not staedy then the tree will fall" sifu use to say meaning if the basics and begaining form are not right then the rest will be a waste of time alot of sifu's like Sifu B teach it empty so did the late Sifu A until you became a close door student. students in nyc and all over how is your siu nim tao done.

[This message was edited by Sihing73 on 05-21-01 at 06:28 AM.]

kungfu cowboy
05-20-2001, 08:48 AM
Howdy! Uh, that sounds a little like a blanket statement that ALL wing chun sucks in NY except for that one school, but I do agree with the sentiments about siu nim tao and the importance of basics.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i live and train in nyc my ex sifu paul koh who studied wing chun use to say wing chun in nyc is empty except for one teacher (my soon to be current teacher) [/quote]

So ,are you sayng here that your old school sucks? :confused:

"Ninja!...NINJA!"-Christopher George, from "Enter the Ninja"

mun hung
05-20-2001, 10:14 AM
That is indeed a blanket statement, peacemaker. I hardly think that all Wing Chun in NYC is empty. Have you visited all the schools in NYC? Has your ex-Sifu? I don't think so. Form your own opinions by visiting some of them first, before casting insults at the whole lot. And by the way - you're not doing your ex-Sifu any favors by publishing his opinions on the net.

I think you should try to understand the significance of the siu nim tao first, and then try to understand for yourself "why" it might be done so many different ways. In Wing Chun everything is done for a reason. Go to all these different schools and ask them why. Discover for yourself what these reasons may be before printing such a bold statement up on the net. I welcome you to visit our school in Queens to judge for yourself if all Wing Chun in NYC is empty. Our school website is www.geocities.com/wingchunschoolnyc (http://www.geocities.com/wingchunschoolnyc)

05-20-2001, 02:41 PM
... heh heh

old jong
05-20-2001, 02:54 PM
...I guess that all serious wing chun kwoon should teach the proper way to perform SLT.But,it is highly impratical to do it this way in a regular classe!So,most do it in a rather accelerated pace to save time, concentrating on the rectitude of the motions.You should be practicing the slow SLT on your own time anyway.
We should not judge a kwoon by this!but by it's results.

C'est la vie!

05-20-2001, 03:23 PM

Allow me to commend you on finding a Sifu whom you admire and are eager to train under. However, I would suggest you reconsider your posting as well as your nickname.

Your post, however intended, was a bit rude and somewhat inflamatory. You post and name specific names as not teaching SNT properly. Unless you have specific firsthand knowledge of each and every one of those you name you show poor taste in bringing them up at all. Please keep in mind that the tone of your post could lead to some unfavorable impressions by others. You could appear to be a troublemaker who name drops and stirs up fires and engages in political turmoil. If this is not your intention then I would suggest you reconsider your tone in further posts. If, however, you are intent on stirring up turmoil then I will let you know I will delete your posts and you will no longer be permitted to post on this board. :( This is not a threat nor am I attempting to usurp power. I have no time for politics and do not wish to see this board degenerate into one of name calling and insults.

Having said this let me also make it clear that you, and everyone else, are more than welcome to post conerning Wing Chun as long as you are not putting others down. There are many people doing Wing Chun and each does it somewhat differently. This does not make one wrong and the other right, it only makes the perspective a little different. If you feel that you have found what you want then this is great and I wish you the best. However, to say that Wing Chun in NYC is "emtpy" shows a lack of growth and shortsightedness. There are many in NYC who have much to offer if you are willing to look with an open mind. Though they may do things differently, you may find their methods have merit. NYC offers, Fut Sau Wing Chun, as well as hosting reprentatives from Leung Ting, William Chueng, Moy Yat, Augustine Fong and Yip Chun. I am sure that many of their students would take offense to being told their teachers Wing Chun was empty. You may wish to choose your words more carefully in the future.

I will be visiting NYC quite regularily over the next few months and will be visiting with several different schools. Perhaps you would like to join me in order to learn firsthand what is offered by others.

As always anyone wishing to discuss this may contact me directly at either:



doug maverick
05-20-2001, 04:48 PM
i didn't get to read all your post yet but i had to reply to mun hung! actually i visited and took intro lessons to mostly all of the wing chun schools in nyc and 98% percent (witch was under the moy yat leneage) were empty not saying moy yat schools suck cause sifu thomas studied with lee moy shan a student of moy yat i asked questions, i asked one teacher in the bronx why do you do siu nim tao so fast he said oh cause it helps your sensitivity also this is the yip man did it. but when i went to ip chings site (oh theres another school from all the schools i seen yui pui excellent!) he said, "in my fathers style of wing chun (refering to the yip man leneage not saying he created the art) the siu nim tao is down slow to build your kenetic energy and internal energy" the whole siu nim tao should take an hour for your first year of training the 1 hour and a half then 2 then you do it on one legfor 1 hour then, 1 and a half then 2 and so on i guess this is why sifu thomas's students win alot of tournaments cause of his concepts, you what i think is since the majority of schools are under moy yats leneage and the only ones that are real are the closed door student(it cost alot of money to become a closed door student) but others who are not closed door were taught "empty wing chun" and thats the way it is taught. also i hate to fit another question in here but my friend said that william chueng schools are bull i told him i don't think so does anyone have anything to say about him?

doug maverick
05-20-2001, 04:57 PM
i'm not trying to stir anything up it's just that the names i droped i been to there schools and seen the way it was done, old jong had a point but the question is does the teacher tell his students even thou we practice fast here you practice slow at home this is improper cause the student needs to be shown how to do it slow before he can practice this on it's own, i'm sorry if i offended anyone but we should discuss this concept an not bicker over it lets share ideas and not argue if this thread stays hot there will be people who are going to shout angry comments but i'm aware of that and await it, but so far the replies have been good, again sorry for the tone of my first post it was not meant that way my name is peacemaker not warmaker.

old jong
05-20-2001, 05:19 PM
O.K. One day my sifu took me aside and showed me how to practice SLT on my own.He only taught that to students he felt were commited to wing chun enough.He felt sadly that most would reject that practice because it could be too "boring".Many people do wing chun as other do tae bo! and would not accept to stand motionless for long periods of times.They would not believe in the learning process involved in the form done this way.I think many sifu are thinking this way.You can't force the thruth into someone who don't want it!

C'est la vie!

mun hung
05-20-2001, 05:33 PM
peacemaker, I suggest you take Dave up on his offer and visit everyone in NYC. I don't believe there's any more advise I can offer you besides - form your own opinions thru your own journeys and experiences.

By the way, I do my siu lim tao levitating off the ground for 6 hours while whistling "yankee doodle dandee" painfully slow while chewing 2 sticks of gum, and reading the Wall Street Journal. Which means of course that - everyone else has empty Wing Chun, can't whistle worth a lick, have bad breath, and lose money on the market! Right?

And that's all I've got to say about that - Forest Gump

old jong
05-20-2001, 05:56 PM
Hey Mun Hung...I tried it your way but I could never levitate for that long!!!Can reading Readers digest be as good? :D...Oh!... do you chew Trident or Dentyne? :rolleyes:Have a nice day :)

C'est la vie!

kungfu cowboy
05-20-2001, 06:49 PM
Ancient chinese secret, huh? :p

"Ninja!...NINJA!"-Christopher George, from "Enter the Ninja"

mun hung
05-20-2001, 07:18 PM
Eat more white rice, and drink more tea! Practice your chi-gung standing on your head while humming the theme music from the "Kung Fu" TV series. Very important to practice your Chum Kiu while watching "Kung Fu" show backwards very slowly so you can see Grasshopper give pebble back to Master Po - very enlightening! Trident and Dentyne only give you false feeling of minty breath, insufferable empty Wing Chun fool! Only Bubblicious strawberry gives you everlasting berry flavor! ;)

[This message was edited by mun hung on 05-21-01 at 10:26 AM.]

old jong
05-20-2001, 09:08 PM
Many thanks o Mun Hung.I will try to follow thy advices!...But what about Chicklett? :D

C'est la vie!

Martial Joe
05-20-2001, 11:10 PM
My sifu told me about Vinnie Thomas.He went to that school once.He visited it a few weeks ago.He said that he was realy good.But he said that there classes are more aerobic than WC.