Why Wing Chun?

[KarmaFire]

Why do you think that Wing Chun has become the most popular of the Chinese styles? Is it because of Bruce Lee? Or because it is obviously effective? Or easier to pronouce and more catchy word than other styles?

[reneritchie]

Yes, it is because of a) Bruce Lee, and b) Lee's classmates seizing Lee's fame as a springboard.

Of course, there would still be WCK around today without Lee, just probably not in such great numbers, or with such fondness for cheese.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by KarmaFire
Why do you think that Wing Chun has become the most popular of the Chinese styles? Is it because of Bruce Lee? Or because it is obviously effective? Or easier to pronouce and more catchy word than other styles?


I thought everyone in WCK is converting to BJJ and XYZ for fighting today? NO? ;)

[KarmaFire]

I believe that Wing Chun offers better self defense than BJJ or anything else. I was just curious out of every chinese style why, Wing Chun reigns supreme(In popularity)? Wing Chun keeps the practioner on their feet and thats better than the ground any day in a street fight. And anti grappling works, your not going to get attacked on the street by Mark Coleman. And if you did BJJ or anything else nothing could save you. But Anti grappling works wonders against all the Ive seen UFC's wannabe's.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by KarmaFire
I was just curious out of every chinese style why, Wing Chun reigns supreme(In popularity)? .


Wing Chun Kuen consists of two faces-- the body and the application which inherit the phylosophical root of Chinese MA, since it is a Chinese Martial art.

Manifest its characteristics in three components -- Power generation/issuing, Momentum and potential dynamics, and methodology of both applications and training.


With a Curriculum of : SLT... Chi Sau... Dummy.... Technical fighting

Training in the domain of Mind/ breathing/ body.


It is a complete training to prepare for a good body and a sound fighting handling.

Same with everything in this world. there is no perfect and every thing has its strenght and weakness. WCK also cannot be perfect. and thus, evolution of making perfect continous on.

Wing Chun Kuen is not a JUST FIGHTING ART.

Analogy to car raising, Wing Chun Kuen train in a certain way with SLT and its sets to condition its practitional to have a certain characterisitcs. such as A 4 wheel Drive BMW is not a Honda accord 2 wheel drive.

with Chi Sau and Dummy WCK continous to train the practitioner after one recognized it is a "4 wheel Drive BMW' how to handle different curve and hill's handling......



Technical fighting comes at the end after understand who "one" is and how "one" handle various situation based on who "one' is.


IMHO, WCK cannot be a just fighting because WCK's training involve in prepare a person from basic to advance skill ready for both strengthen one's body and improve one's fighting skill.


Certainly, to involve in more fighting will broadern one's experience in fighting. However, analogy to taking a test without preparation is looking for trouble.

Certainly, the one who prepare will not always A's the test and sometimes migth even fail. But the one who goes into the examination without preparing is looking forward to learn in a hard way. The one who drive all car in one same ways without understand the characteristics of the car is not make the best used of the car and its characteristics.


WCK is a balance/centering Body and Application art.
For Application without body is about not understanding what it is.
For Body without application is useless even if one master the characteristics of the art.

just some thought.

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

What is the difference between 4WD and 2WD in WCK body mechanics for fighting?

Regards,
PH

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

What is the difference between 4WD and 2WD in WCK body mechanics for fighting?

Regards,
PH


The famous WC full body sensing adaption and non telescopic short jing generation from any part of the body.

Sure, saying this , another argument.... might comes up. But that is what the ancestors' view not mine. So dont shoot the messenger.

And with the characteristics above lots of situation will be handling differently due to the characteristics.

IE: Yee Chuan never believe in Grapping. WXZ prove again and again even toward the Olympic Judoka. They cannot grap him. He bounce them away at the point of touching WXZ. he proved his way around china and with figthers from others country. The thunder Shock model
IE: Mas Oyama's Middle punch is that God's hand, the spiral out power cannot be stop, he prove his middle punch against a wrestle .... and that over 200 fights.
IE: Osense's Aikido throw is unresistable..... that is oppost with MAs oyama's Kang "hard and elastic" god hand but with "soft and elastic" water flow model.

every art has it's model and thus they solve problem in a different way.

[PaulH]

Could you provide some WCK kuits or whatever past evidences that further support this view? I see only non WCK's examples cited in your previous post.

Regards,
PH

[reneritchie]

There are some miraculous people out there who could kick @$$ with ballet, heck with no formal training at all. This does not reflect any MA system's merits or lack thereof. You can't talk about systems like that, only individuals.

When talking about systems, you need to assess what system can take the largest number of average people and bring them to a certain level of successful application in the shortest period of time.

Do most things for 30+ years, or have some natural ability, and you could most likely handle Joe-Average in a constrained encounter. What could let someone without natural ability handle him in 3 years? In 3 months? In 3 days? In 3 hours?

[Matrix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
There are some miraculous people out there who could kick @$$ with ballet,... If that's the case, then that would certainly make going to the ballet a whole lot more interesting. Swan Lake meets WWF. ;)



When talking about systems, you need to assess what system can take the largest number of average people and bring them to a certain level of successful application in the shortest period of time. I see where you're going with this, and agree for the most part.
I just have an issue with the "shortest period of time" portion of the statement. I may be wrong, but I think some "inferior arts" can in fact appear to provide more success in the short term, hence their broader appeal to those who need instant gratification. However, they quickly plateau at that point and training becomes doing the same techniques while jumping higher or spinning or whatever. Whereas "superior arts" may in fact take more time on the front-end of the process, but provide enhanced over the medium to long term.

Just my 2 cents...

[Gangsterfist]

I practice wing chun for the ladies!:cool: :cool: :) :D :eek:

[Ultimatewingchun]

Some may ask...Why Wing Chun?

But I ask...Why not Wing Chun?

It could've been worse. It could've been Tae Kwon Do!

[anerlich]

It's popular because:

1. Bruce Lee
2. it can be used by people with no fitness, strength or flexibility to vanquish hordes of steroid ridden behemoths
3. You can become part of an international cult with internecine rivalry as an added bonus
4. You don't have to be able to do high kicks, that painful and messy sparring stuff, or anything that requires endurance, pain tolerance or courage - chi sao will easily vanquish attackers of all sizes and dispositions
5. It contains "antigrappling" and "wing chun groundfighting" which will cause grapplers of all sizes, styles and skill levels to quiver with fright at its mere mention (hah!)
6. It allows unlimited opportunity to bicker with fellow practitioners on the internet
7. It has the best marketers and salesmen out there

[anerlich]

I practice wing chun for the ladies!

While my academy has a healthy female attendance and a more than a few marriages and relationships were forged here, IMO the odds are pretty much against. The numbers are still about 8 or 10 to 1.

From what I've seen, by far the best activity to meet women in the modern age is yoga. There's a school across the lane from us we can see through the windows, and a class is underway when I train BJJ in the mornings. Maybe 3 guys in a class of 20 skimpily dressed women, while I'm rolling around on the floor with a bunch of sweaty guys and a couple of gals in gis ... I've been married nearly 20 years, but if I were single I'd be enrolling for yoga yesterday.

[Gangsterfist]

Hahahaha anerlich-

I was being sarcastic. I hear ya bout yoga and infact I am interested in taking yoga but my kung fu training comes first. Plus here in a few months I am going to have a new training regime and start cross training in another style. That will take even more time away from yoga.

However, your point is seens and well taken. I will totally agree with you on this one.

[old jong]

That brought back images of John Ritter (In three's company!) when he was participating in a all women cardio class!...;) Chrissy was something in those days!
(Only guys my age can remember that!):rolleyes:

Back to topic.....:D

Why the h*ll the Karate class before I teach is full of women and I have only a few in my Wing Chun class?...:mad: Is it the "Tae Bo" factor?...:( Sometimes ,I think getting a nice bu*t is more important than learning something valuable for a majority of women.
Maybe because it is their major weapon against us guys!...:p

[Edmund]

Originally posted by Phenix


IE: Yee Chuan never believe in Grapping. WXZ prove again and again even toward the Olympic Judoka. They cannot grap him. He bounce them away at the point of touching WXZ.

He died in 1963. Judo wasn't an Olympic sport until 1964.

[anerlich]

He died in 1963. Judo wasn't an Olympic sport until 1964.

LOL.

American judoka Mark Tripp tells a story about working out with Chen Man-Ching on a visit to Taiwan. Chen was boosted big time by Robert W Smith, among others, as having almost superhuman powers.

Tripp worked out with Chen and uprooted him fairly drastically. On looking around, it appeared that Chen's obvious failure hadn't even REGISTERED with the large audience, caught in their own cognitive dissonance and hero worship.

Dare I say that at least SOME of the accounts of past KF warriors may be heavily embellished? Perhaps that is why such feats do not continue into the age of video and a more informed and critical audience?

Did everyone see that clip on bullshido of the fatboy "Dim Mak master" and Dillman protege, who could supposedly knock his own students unconscious with and without touching them, but could not duplicate the feats with either the female anchor or even ONE student in a neighbouring Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school?

Check it out, it would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

[captain]

many questions about the "all roundness" of wck,but that
bong sao is amazing and i used it after being shown it only
once.and the mighty Fung Siu Ching.[script still available,folks].

r

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Edmund


He died in 1963. Judo wasn't an Olympic sport until 1964.


And the record from Yee Chuan recorded:

1940, 6th Dan Judoka , ¤K¥Ð¤@_? who had represented Japan to participate in the 11th Olympic international wrestling competition in 1936; He challenged WXZ . He graps WXZ's wrist to attack. however, at the instant of contact, he was shocked elivated over ground and bounce toward the wall behind him, then fall to the ground.


Someone wants to check the record of Japanese 1936 olympic paticipant to verify this account? It will be great to find out if WXZ's people lying. :D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Could you provide some WCK kuits or whatever past evidences that further support this view?
Regards,
PH


There are plenty of WCK Kiuts being post in this forum before. you can check into them.

and since you are from GM YM's line.
You can check with GM TST to see how his capability even at his old age support the WCK view.

[Jim Roselando]

With regards to the Judo fighter and Wang!


To spread the newly- emerging routine far and wide, Wang recruited a large number of youngsters and gave them lessons personally. His aim was very clear and that was to help boost the morale of the Chinese people and counter foreign pugilism. He issued a statement in a local newspaper and declared that he was ready to take on any rivals including those coming from foreign countries. Wang's remark angered Kenichi Sawai, a Japanese martial artist then living in Beijing. Sawai was good at karate, swordplay and judo. In his eyes, Chinese wushu was only something like gymnastics, having little value in actual fights. So, one day, he went to call at Wang's in the hope of showing off his prowess. When he saw Wang Xiangzhai, he found that the Chinese shadow boxer, a man of middle stature clad in long gown, looked very gentle and suave. He was very happy to meet with such a weakling, thinking that he would win without fail. After introducing himself and explaining why he had come, he produced a newspaper which carried Wang's statement and tossed it on a table. "You are ready to have a dual fight, aren't you?" asked the Japanese karate practitioner, his face wreathed in contemptuous smiles. "Yes, I am," retorted sneeringly my instructor. "I always mean what I have said. I would never refuse anyone who wants to compete with me. Foreign martial artists are especially welcome." Hearing that, Sawai went out of the drawing room and stood in the courtyard waiting for a duel. Without any hesitation, Wang came out with hands placed behind his back. Directing his strength to both hands through concentration, Sawai assumed a horse-riding stance and launched a sudden attack on Wang's face with hands. Seeing this, my instructor, his left hand remaining still, extended his right forearm to parry Sawai's hands. Then, with a slight exertion of strength, Wang threw the Japanese muscle man 10 feet away. Before realizing what had happened, Sawai was already Lying on the ground on his back. Not admitting defeat, Sawai wanted to have a swordplay contest with Wang because he was so skilled at it that he could cut an apple on the head of a man into two without hurting the head. Considering that Sawai should get an idea of what Chinese swordplay was, Wang agreed to have another contest. With a sword held overhead in his hands, Sawai delivered a hard blow at Wang's head. Wang stepped a bit to the right and wielded his sword to block the opposing sword. As the two swords clanked, Sawai was also thrown several feet away and flattened with his palms benumbed. (According to the son of Sawai, they did not fight with swords but with sticks.) Irreconciled, Sawai rose to his feet and pounced upon Wang with his sword towards the throat. This skill is very famous in Japanese swordplay, with which one can catch his rival off guard. However, Wang was so good at Chinese swordplay that it seemed as if he did not make use of eyes but sense only in a fight. Wang turned his body to the right slightly, leaving Sawai's attack wide of the mark. In another instant, Wang pressed his sword against his opponent's. Sawai tried hard to draw his sword back, only to no avail, since it was "pasted" fast to Wang's at the guard of the hilt. When Wang mustered up his strength, Sawai was flung out and slammed against a nearby door which caved in as a result. Later on, Sawai engaged Wang in a qinna-something like judo- contest. By then, he was already a 5 - dan judoka in Japan. However, he could never get hold of Wang by the sleeve or the front in competition, no matter how hard he tried. Instead, he was grasped by Wang as soon as they came to grips.

[Gangsterfist]

Anerlich-

Ran into a kung fu brother last night who is actually taking yoga down the street from where I live. He told me its all run by 4 gorgeous girls. I think I might check it out ha ha ha. I got a flyer for their yoga classes on my fridge!

[KarmaFire]

I started this thread just wondering why Wing Chun is the most popular chinese art. I know its effective, just curious if you think its the most popular due to its effectivenss or the Bruce Lee tag? Or it might be its easier to say in English. Im not sure. Just thought Id pick your brains for opinions.

[old jong]

One of my too few female students was in yoga before.She can do the "Trinity scorpion kick"!....My god!...:rolleyes: ...........





















































































Oups! sorry!...I was daydreaming!...;)

[old jong]

Bruce who?...
I guess it is popular because it is easier to practice thanKalaripayattu!... (http://www.hindusthankalari.com/img/img_gl_7.jpg) :)

[Gangsterfist]

Okay, sorry for hijacking your thread KarmaFire. I just like being a kid sometimes and I am girl crazy, sorry.


I have studied a few martial arts before I ever even knew what wing chun kuen was. A friend of a friend had just gotten certified to teach wing chun and I was interested in getting back into the martial arts. I remember my first day, I was told my shoulders were going to be my biggest deamons (and they still are ha ha ha sometimes).

My first sifu (wing chun) was a very open minded very talented martial artists and knew a lot about lots of systems. He would have open discussion with me before and after class. I would try to compare my okinawan karate training to wing chun all the time and asked him about practical application of techniques with wing chun training.

What attracted me so much was the structure and idea behind wing chun. You are not relying on strength, size, or any other physical attributes. You are fighting smarter than your opponet. However, even though WCK does not rely on such physical attributes it will definately take advantage of them if you got them. So, I am not saying you do not need to be in good physical shape, because I believe if you want to be a good martial artist you will be in good physical shape.

Then comes in the idea behind it, sticking, trapping, pressurizing, forward motions, center line theory.

Now, I train with my sifu's sifu (my sigung) because he had to move. Wing chun is a great martial art, just very few really understand how to fully utilize it I think.

[PaulH]

Many years ago a friend of mine looking for a good M.A. school walked into Bucksam Kong's Tiger and Crane kwoon in Hollywood? and asked this Sifu's opinion of WC as a fighting system. The man just laughed and said that it is for women! There you have it - the woman and the enduring myth-like story of a female warrior who beat soundly a brute by sheer KF skills and grace. Whatever you may think of Wing Chun as a real historical figure or not, she will always have her unique place in all beanies' dream against the encrouching bullies of the universe! Ha! Ha!

Just my bean,
PBS

[Edmund]

Originally posted by Phenix



And the record from Yee Chuan recorded:

1940, 6th Dan Judoka , ¤K¥Ð¤@_? who had represented Japan to participate in the 11th Olympic international wrestling competition in 1936; He challenged WXZ . He graps WXZ's wrist to attack. however, at the instant of contact, he was shocked elivated over ground and bounce toward the wall behind him, then fall to the ground.


Someone wants to check the record of Japanese 1936 olympic paticipant to verify this account? It will be great to find out if WXZ's people lying. :D

"Mizutani, Mitsuzo" was the only Japanese wrestler in the 1936 games according to the wrestling database.

Can't read that "¤K¥Ð¤@_?" to see if it seems the same.
Someone else will have to check that.

Frankly the "elevated over the ground and bounced off a wall" from touching WXZ's wrist sounds like a complete fairytale anyway.

[yylee]

Originally posted by Edmund


"Mizutani, Mitsuzo" was the only Japanese wrestler in the 1936 games according to the wrestling database.

Can't read that "¤K¥Ð¤@_?" to see if it seems the same.
Someone else will have to check that.

Frankly the "elevated over the ground and bounced off a wall" from touching WXZ's wrist sounds like a complete fairytale anyway.

** Hendrik is out of town at the moment, he asks me to post this for him **

Seems that there is only one
¤K¥Ð¤@­¦.

The one return to Japan with Ali's challange message too.
http://pro-wrestling.idv.tw/pulolesu/history/inokivsali/inokivsali1.html


Certainly, one can believe what one wants on Wang's capablity. Wang beat
the judoka was a fact.

As for the capability of Yi Chuan. Well, let see Who also study Yi Chuan.
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/search.php?substring=sawai

[Edmund]

Originally posted by yylee


Certainly, one can believe what one wants on Wang's capablity. Wang beat the judoka was a fact.


One can believe all sorts of stories because they want to.

Beat the judoka?

Your story was he sent him flying with a touch.
By inference, he must be great and his martial art must be also super as opposed to judo which was bounced like a ping pong ball.

Turns out that story is full of holes.

And then another one from Jim for good laugh or cry:
"With a sword held overhead in his hands, Sawai delivered a hard blow at Wang's head. Wang stepped a bit to the right and wielded his sword to block the opposing sword. As the two swords clanked, Sawai was also thrown several feet away and flattened with his palms benumbed."

They just don't know how to tell a good yarn these days. It will become "several meters away" the next time it's told. :D
It probably was originally "several inches".

What's even funnier is people trying to emulate the stories.

[anerlich]

I don't think anyone's really disputing that this guy beat a badass wrestler, judoka, whatever you want to call him.

The hyperbolic language and recounting of the physically improbable as fact are what is being contested here. I'll wait for the video before I believe any of this claptrap.

Also, Hendrik's reputed historical expertise takes a hammering when he misses details like "Olympic judoka."

Oh, and (obviously) Yi Chuan and WC are different.

My bet? Sakuraba would have Mongolian chopped and cartwheel guard passed this guy into oblivion. Since he's not around I can say or make up just about whatever I like about him, as the writers of these "historical accounts" apparently did. His followers should enter the UFC and Pride and show us all, like Spiderman!

WTF does Ali v Inoki have to do with this? Just another Hendrik red herring to avoid dealing with the usual huge holes in his previous arguments?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Edmund



Turns out that story is full of holes.

.


one is free to choose to ignore the facts and direct the attention to stories holes......etc

The facts remain:

WXZ beat two judoka including Sawai effortlessly. among with other matiar artist including a world class boxer from hungary, Inga (sp?). seems that there was an article written by Inga after his defeat, post in Britist' newpaper title : The chinese martial technology which I hve seen".

MAs Oyama the Founder of Kyokushin also study Yee Chuan with Sawai.

Mas Oyama has more then 100 match and never lost....

[Phenix]

Originally posted by anerlich
Hendrik's reputed historical expertise takes a hammering when he misses details like "Olympic judoka."

Oh, and (obviously) Yi Chuan and WC are different.




hahahaha. I never said Hendrik is the god of history who is 120% correct .

Sorry, I am wrong in phrasing the word if you like to nail me.
ok it should be " 6 dan judoka who compete in the 1936's olympic's wrestling who later brought Ali's message back to Japan ...... " in stead of just "olympic judoka"

Yes, WXZ beat that 6 Dan in Judo japanese 1936 olympic wrestling competetor in 1940.

See, not everyone has to learn grappling to beat grappling. :D


but you are wrong obviously about WCK and Yi Chuan. :D
Let's starts counting the similarities of these Chinese Martail arts system: the principle of centerline theory, White Crane's of FUjian's influence on Yee Chuan and WCK, energy issuing.... , Yee of WXZ and Nim Lik /lap nim of YM (TST).....
The list can go very long Bro. :D


Ofcorse I can be dead wrong but reading your post, you give me an impression of
You seem to not believe Chinese Martial art isnt it? be it Yee Chuan, WXZ, or WCK? :D

Ofcorse I can be wrong about the impression your post give me.

[anerlich]

"Ofcorse I can be dead wrong but reading your post, you give me an impression of
You seem to not believe Chinese Martial art isnt it? be it Yee Chuan, WXZ, or WCK? "

I might be able to respond to that if it were syntactically valid or actually meant anything intelligible.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by anerlich
"Ofcorse I can be dead wrong but reading your post, you give me an impression of
You seem to not believe Chinese Martial art isnt it? be it Yee Chuan, WXZ, or WCK? "

I might be able to respond to that if it were syntactically valid or actually meant anything intelligible.



Hahahha,
let's get back to the topic after all these questioning at WXZ and Yee Chuan in a very intelligent way. :D



someone wants to continous on
counting the similarities of these two Chinese Martail arts system:

the principle of centerline theory,
White Crane's of FUjian's influence on Yee Chuan and WCK, energy issuing such as the nail and hammer? (what is the similarity and different with the nail and hammer analogy between WCK and Yee Chuan's nail and hammer on pg 49(i think ) of Yau's book).... ,
Yee of WXZ and Nim Lik /lap nim of YM (TST).....

[Edmund]

Ha ha ha.:D


"One is free to choose to ignore the facts"

Who's ignoring the facts?
You seem to add and subtract "facts" to make your point.
Some of your facts turn out not to be too factual at all.


"See, not everyone has to learn grappling to beat grappling."

Yeah! That chi blast method of WXZ is completely valid!
When they touch your wrist you just fling them in the air.
Is that a fact?

[anerlich]

One is free to choose to ignore the facts

What, like WC purists getting ripped to shreds in modern MMA?

Yes, one is apparently free to ignore the "facts", or as demonstrated admirably by yourself, to use "facts" selectively, or to treat hagiographic exaggeration as "facts".

[Ultimatewingchun]

Hendrik:

"Yes, WXZ beat that 6 Dan in Judo japanese 1936 olympic wrestling competetor in 1940.
See, not everyone has to learn grappling to beat grappling."


Man...Hendrik...you really need to grow up. You are having a seriously hard time accepting the fact that there are other martial arts out there that can beat your wing chun/kyokushin, etc....

By grappling you. That can beat CMA in general...by grappling.

You are CONSTANTLY engaging in a game of denial about non-Chinese arts that really can do something well...

Grapple.
Grapple.
Grapple.

Get over it. Stop kidding yourself. Stop trying to kid everybody else. And learn how to..............................................

GRAPPLE....CATCH-AS-CATCH-CAN WRESTLE...BRAZILIAN JU JITSU...SAMBO...GRECO-ROMAN WRESTLE...MONGOLIAN WRESTLE.

AH...now there's one for you - it's close to home!

Mongolian Wrestling. Take it up! Have faith in yourself! You can do it!

[Edmund]

You know, WXZ probably did some pretty good techniques to beat those guys. e.g. A quick fan kum na (grab counter) or something.

But thanks to "Chinese whispers" no one will know what actually happened and some won't even believe it happened at all.

[Phenix]

"One is free to choose to ignore the facts"

Who's ignoring the facts?
You seem to add and subtract "facts" to make your point.
Some of your facts turn out not to be too factual at all. ----Ed


You sure remind me about grade school teacher who insist on the student has to write in certain way. sentence structure is more important then the context and the content. hahahaha. :D





"See, not everyone has to learn grappling to beat grappling."

Yeah! That chi blast method of WXZ is completely valid!
When they touch your wrist you just fling them in the air.
Is that a fact?

You know, WXZ probably did some pretty good techniques to beat those guys. e.g. A quick fan kum na (grab counter) or something.

But thanks to "Chinese whispers" no one will know what actually happened and some won't even believe it happened at all.

----- E

speaking about precision on presenting a subject. hahaha

1, Chi blast method? Fan Kum Na? hahahaha Keep guessing since you have no idea totally about WXZ and Yee Chuan.

2, those writing about WXZ bounce others at contact has been there since decades ago. if those Judoka such as Sawai and others chinese martial artists WXZ beat have no problem with it. hahahaha. why do you complain? Do you fight WXZ? :D

you just dont like the fact that old chinese WXZ can beat the Judoka with simple bounce. hahahhaha. :D


PS:
Dont shoot the messenger, that is me :D,
go to BeiJing and verify with those Yee Chuan GM if you are interested. I brought up Yee Chuan here as and IE for the characteristics. hahaha

[Phenix]

Victor,

Man...Hendrik...you really need to grow up. You are having a seriously hard time accepting the fact that there are other martial arts out there that can beat your wing chun/kyokushin, etc.... -----V

I always want to be an archeologist (sp) who dig out the past when I grow up. hehehehe.

I have never said wing chun/ kyokushin/Yee Chuan ( yes I learn Yee Chuan too) cannot be beaten.

Did the other day you agree with me certain Zone in some of today's WCK sucks?:D I guess you must be forgoten. hahahaha




You are CONSTANTLY engaging in a game of denial about non-Chinese arts that really can do something well... -----V


Kyokushin, Aikido of Osense , and Mua Thai which I praise alots in this forum are non- Chinese arts right?

You must have read my post with someone's glasses or wrong lenses. :cool:






Get over it. Stop kidding yourself. Stop trying to kid everybody else. And learn how to..............................................

Mongolian Wrestling. Take it up! Have faith in yourself! You can do it! ----- V


hahaha,
man, I love to dig out what the old WXZ or the Old LJ or the Osense or the Old Oyama can do.

See, Rene has shown me some good grappling technics. But, dig out what the old chinese can do has no contradiction with
learning new stuffs and embrace other new art .

You sound like you have jump boat even before you find out what is the boat is about. hahahaha

I am still digging trying to find out how much the old chinese can do which lots in the same style cannot do today. That is fun isnt it to find out how much the art has lost. Nah, I am not jumping boat yet. Since the topic of this discussion is WHY WING CHUN. hehehehe

remember I want to be an archeologist (sp) to dig out the old stuffs? hahahaa. I still can love high tech garget like a gps and pda. ;)

Until one face the past and accept what was going on, until one's past is a friend to support and not a ghost to haunt. There is no future.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by anerlich


Yes, one is apparently free to ignore the "facts", or as demonstrated admirably by yourself, to use "facts" selectively, or to treat hagiographic exaggeration as "facts".



someone wants to continous on
counting the (obvious) facture similarities of these two Chinese Martail arts system:

the principle of centerline theory,
White Crane's of FUjian's influence on Yee Chuan and WCK, energy issuing such as the nail and hammer? (what is the similarity and different with the nail and hammer analogy between WCK and Yee Chuan's nail and hammer on pg 49(i think ) of Yau's book).... ,
Yee of WXZ and Nim Lik /lap nim of YM (TST).....

[Ultimatewingchun]

Hendrik:

Yadda...Yadda....Yadda

Man - you just never admit it when you're off the target.

You're too shady for me, bro...

Drowning the issues with a zillion sentences that always lead people in circles is my definition of...B-O-R-I-N-G !!!

And by the way - remember when Mas O'Yama used to spread stories about he fought and killed bulls with karate chops? How he severed their horns with one blow?

It never happened. He managed to strike a bull once (who wasn't charging) with a chop near the horn...the bull shook it's head and walked away.

That was it. And legends are born!?

[saifa5k]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by anerlich
[B]

From what I've seen, by far the best activity to meet women in the modern age is yoga.


Yep, you got it. Been doing yoga for about 20 years now. Only injury was to my neck while twisting it trying to look at the "scenery" while in the downward dog position.
Davec

[Gangsterfist]

Originally posted by saifa5k
[QUOTE]Originally posted by anerlich
[B]

From what I've seen, by far the best activity to meet women in the modern age is yoga.


Yep, you got it. Been doing yoga for about 20 years now. Only injury was to my neck while twisting it trying to look at the "scenery" while in the downward dog position.
Davec

LOL I got a flyer for a yoga class just the other day. I hear all the women are drop dead gorgeous. I really need to get back in shape this time and start taking yoga to increase my flexibility, and "look at the scenery" as it was put earlier.

ha ha ha

[Ultimatewingchun]

More about Hendrik's yadda, yadda...this time a quote from Andrew Nerlich:

"WTF does Ali v Inoki have to do with this? Just another Hendrik red herring to avoid dealing with the usual huge holes in his previous arguments?"

Come back to reality Hendrik....

[Edmund]

Originally posted by Phenix

You sure remind me about grade school teacher who insist on the student has to write in certain way. sentence structure is more important then the context and the content. hahahaha. :D

1, Chi blast method? Fan Kum Na? hahahaha Keep guessing since you have no idea totally about WXZ and Yee Chuan.

2, those writing about WXZ bounce others at contact has been there since decades ago. if those Judoka such as Sawai and others chinese martial artists WXZ beat have no problem with it. hahahaha. why do you complain? Do you fight WXZ? :D

you just dont like the fact that old chinese WXZ can beat the Judoka with simple bounce. hahahhaha. :D


PS:
Dont shoot the messenger, that is me :D,
go to BeiJing and verify with those Yee Chuan GM if you are interested. I brought up Yee Chuan here as and IE for the characteristics. hahaha

If I were shooting the messenger I'd criticize your writing style.
I couldn't care less who WXZ beat 60 years ago.

All I am saying is those stories about bouncing a person are exaggerated. They are exaggerated so much due to hero worship that the gullible actually believe that they can do superhuman things.

Mas Oyama has the same stories. Gracies have the same stories. WXZ has the same stories.

You can't separate the wheat from the chaff. As evidenced by your insistence that WXZ opponents were sent flying via a touch.

[anerlich]

You sure remind me about grade school teacher who insist on the student has to write in certain way. sentence structure is more important then the context and the content.

I guess in the age of political correctness no one corrects students any more, in case it stunts their personalities, makes them dependent on Ritalin and Prozac, etc. etc.

I hadn't expected that things had gone so far that to write unintelligibly and without making any sense was now acceptable and to be encouraged, but, what can I say, I live and learn. You are a unique and beautiful snowflake, and removing the "snow" from that makes just as much sense.


Keep guessing since you have no idea totally about WXZ and Yee Chuan.

I don't know WXZ from Adam, but I did spend quite a few years studying taiji and xingyi. I may know more than you!