Think I may have lung damage

[Water Dragon]

I have a problem and it’s starting to scare me a little bit. For those of you who don’t know my history, I used to smoke cigarettes for long time. I started smoking at 12, quit just about 1 year ago (June 25, 2003) at age 29. That’s 17 years of about a pack a day.

When I quit last year, I started training again hardcore. I started Vale Tudo with a competitive fighter in early October. It’s now ten months later and I’m beginning to think I have done permanent damage to my lungs.

In Boxing, I’m good for about 3 3 minute rounds. In Muay Thai, I’m good for about 2 3 minute rounds. When we do Shuai Chiao type wrestling, I can go for about 4 3 minute rounds and in BJJ I can do 2 or 3 5 minute rounds.

When I tank, it’s not even that I feel very tired, I literally can’t breathe anymore. I will be GASPING for air, trying to swallow as much oxygen as possible.

I train hard. I rarely miss class. I train for 3-4 hours 3 times a week and try to get in 2 1 hour sessions on my own. I run 2-3 miles a few times a week and jump rope.

I want to know if there are any tests I can run or what I can realistically expect as a 30 year old going up against a bunch of people in their late teens to early 20’s. I figure that after a year, I should be doing better than I am. I want to go to a doctor to see what they see, but at the same time I’m apprehensive about it. What if I have emphysema or some other disease?

[Chang Style Novice]

Then you'll die.

But you'll die anyway, just like the rest of us. You probably have fu(ked up your lung some, but I doubt you have emphysema. Still, see a doctor. Seeing a doctor won't make whatever conditions are affecting you any worse. The worst that can happen is you'll learn something.

[Meat Shake]

You may have athsma. It sucks. Im used to it though...
Does it feel like your lungs are too small to breathe?
I only have like 1/6 of my normal lung capacity... My doctor said most people would freak out and call the hospital if they were breathing like me, but Im used to it...
Athsma is when the 2... well... They are basically like a set of labhia in the throat. They have tiny hairs on them, and when they are irritated, they close up partially. This makes your lung space go from {--------------------------------------------}
To { }

[The Willow Sword]

Start drinking Green tea(2 pots a day). and supplement your diet with vitamin c either in a chewable or a more potent form of tablet(500mg)
the green tea, over time, will help your lungs repair themselves as will the vitamin c. your lungs still have some repairing to do.
seems like you train pretty hard,,maybe a little too hard at this point. ease up a bit.

I was a teen smoker all the way and then at 21 i quit for good.
i supplemented my diet with vitamin c and green tea and ginseng.
the rest i let my body handle.

Hope you get better. PEACE,,,TWS

[SevenStar]

Don't sweat it. This only means that you'll have to knock people out faster.

[joedoe]

Could be any number of things. If it is worrying you, then you should see a doctor and get some tests run. They have a whole series of lung function test they can do to try and determine what is wrong (if there is anything wrong at all).

BTW asthma is actually caused by the swelling of the lung lining in the small airways in the lung, usually caused by some irritant such as an allergen or even cold air. It can also be brought on by exercise.

Seriously, it sounds like you are pretty fit and this will count in your favour when it comes to lung problems. As CSN said, it is probably not emphysema (that is pretty serious, and would affect you a lot more than it sounds like you are being affected) but get it checked out - at least you will know whether it is serious or not.

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
I hope you're OK. I don't know about cig's, but after sucking welding smoke for 7 years, I'm defenetly not the same person. In my 20's, I used to be able to do forms, non stop, no breaks, rests or anything for 40 minutes to an hour back to back to back, deep stances and all.

Today, I'm lucky if I could go for 3 minutes, and then I have to cheat quite a bit on the hieght of my stances to do it. I haven't been able to train like you since..............well...................I was about your age.


Assuming your not seriously ill, and it's just a peformance issue brought on by the smoking, you may be able to improve things by working long fist forms. I know, many hard core guys may laugh, but I truely feel forms done in a non stop manor for 40+ minutes is one of the best way to build your cardio. It offers benifits that extended drilling of single exercises just can't touch.


If you like, I'd be willing to teach you a good set. Bring your gloves, we can sparr after wards if you like.

[fa_jing]

Well I gave up pot 7 weeks ago or so, and I think it saved me from lung cancer
:eek:

Edit: oops, I meant throat cancer. Dayam these slow to re-awaken grey cells....

[Ming Yue]

good job quitting smoking.

bad news is destroyed lung tissue doesn't regenerate. good news is damaged lung tissue does.

you should go to your doc for a lung capacity test and see where you stand. you put more strain on your lungs than most people, that's for sure. As an athlete you should go let 'em have a look and see if there's anything you can do to breathe easier.

there's definitely breathing techniques you can learn to help deal with gassing out. I bet some of the folks here with athsma have tricks to maintain thier airflow during training.

[SanSoo Student]

Start swimming, that is the one of the best exercises that helps train your lungs and breathing.

[joedoe]

I am sorry, but this is one of my pet peeves. Everyone tells me that swimming will fix my asthma, and my experience has been that it makes it worse for me.

Recent studies have shown that the urea that inevitably ends up in the water reacts in sunlight with the chlorine to produce a nasty compound (trichloro-something) that has been shown to aggravate the condition in some asthmatics.

Not to mention that different people have different triggers, one of which is exercise, so advising an asthmatic that swimming will fix their problem is not only potentially incorrect, it is also irresponsible.

Anyway, rant over. :)

[Becca]

Willow mentioned my favorite technique for dealing with asthma: Green tea or black tea mixed with an herbal designed to help cardio-pulminary issues, though only about 1 pot, or else I don't sleep well. Also stay hydrated. If I start to have an attack while training, I put my hands on top of my head and slow my pace a bit. Other than that, ther's not much you can do except deal with it. Sorry dude.:( On the up side, I've heard it sometimes takes several years for your lungs to completely heal. That meens you will start to see some improovement.

[Mr Punch]

I started smoking at 15 or so and quit for thirteen months ending last year, then again for four months last year, and so far for two months this time... :rolleyes:

You've smoked all of your adult life and through some of your lungs' formative years. You've also smoked for the whole time you've trained, no? With me, after a few months off (usually about three-four) I gas like you'e described... sucking and gulping like a serious fish out of water... then after another couple of months it passes and I am Superman! (The quicker it takes me is probbaly because I 've only smoked a couple a day for the last few years - by the looks of it I was probably training like you)

I think it's just my lungs learning how to breathe, learning how to breathe deeply, using more of their capacity... chill with it and see how it goes. You have to train your lungs all from scratch.

But before you do that, stop ****ing about posting to a bunch of know nothing MA freaks and go to the ****ing quacks! :D

LOL at Seven... you've got a point!

[Royal Dragon]

Having Asthma myself, I can say it does tank your endurance. Even if it's mild. I have found though, that cardio helps alot. The issue is to go about it slowly, and progressively, so you don't trigger an attack. Don't train till your sucking for air. Go easy, and do a little more each day. Eventually, you'll be able to do quite a bit.

Learning deep Qi Gong, and meditation helps big time too. The ability to deeply relax can halt an attack in it's tracks, and even reverse an asthma attack.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
The ability to deeply relax can halt an attack in it's tracks, and even reverse an asthma attack.

I'll try to remember that the next time I have a profession MMA fighter chasing me around the ring dropping bombs on me :D

It's just that lately I feel I have to do twice the work to get half the benefit. I'm not crippled, and I'm not a feeb. I can run rings around a lot of people in class.

But I'm trying to hit that next level sl I can get out there and mix it up, but it feels like I hit a glass ceiling. No matter what I do, it's like I can't improve anymore. It's frustrating as all he!l.

[Ray Pina]

Dude, I just turned 30 .... I hear ya!!!! I smoked pot pretty much daily from 18 to about Dec of last year before a few fights I worked for.

Its not the lungs, its the management of the breath. I'm learning this now. Learning hot to relax and get more out of doing less, chosing battled.

On the ground I'm learning to completely relax and just mainten structure, hip control, not extending .... let the other guy do the work and make a mistake, present his head or an extended limb.

Don't worry, you're not dying anymore than you were last month.

[Tak]

Probably wouldn't hurt to get a checkup and get your lung capacity checked. And then you'd have a benchmark.

[CD Lee]

Yep Water, it sounds like you need some more time. It is hard to wait I know. Let me give you another potential nobody has mentioned. Age.

I did track and cross country as a high schooler. I can tell you after a long break and aging, even when I whipped myself back into running shape 10 yrs after high school to run races, I was NOT the same person physically. When you get in your 30's, you will not be able to recover like a younger person period. You may do better than some younger folks, but YOU will not be exactly like you were before. You also recover slower after workouts as well. Not to mention, you probably weigh 20 lbs more now than you used to. With added weight comes decreased cardio efficiency.

Oh, also I did not smoke though all of this. Bill Rodgers, known also as Boston Billy, an elite marathoner, won the Boston and NY City Marthons 4 times each, smoked a pack a day before he became a great marathoner, and it caused him no adverse effects. Billy did say however, that the most frustrating thing about running when you get older is that the fatiuge factor is so much greater. There is more pain, more tiredness, less cardio efficiency. You may be feeling some of that, but maybe not all.

Look, Mark Coleman tanked like you are describing a lot at one point and he was not smoking that I know of. It could be that you are just crossing over your aneorobic threshold during training. And when you do that, it is very difficult to recover during the same activity period. I know that elite runners know exactly where that line is and are very careful about crossing it in a race. Once they do, they are finished competitively speaking for that race.

[Pork Chop]

errr what everyone else said....
ie, the foundational stuff: relax your breathing & technique when you're sparring; make sure you're not overtrained; take a trip to the doc to see if you've got asthma.

How do your running sessions match up to the amount of time you're good for; doing sparring or whatever?

If you're jogging for 30 ro 45 minutes a session, but only lasting 9 minutes of the higher intensity; then switch to high intensity interval training; like scrapper's workouts, taku's intervals, or one of the other methods on the health/nutrition forum & elsewhere on the web.

If you're jogging for 10 to 20 minutes a session and only lasting 10 to 20 minutes of ring time; then either lengthen those sessions to 2 or 3 times your ring time; OR switch to interval training anyway.

Green vegetables are supposed to help with lung function.
Milk & dairy are rumored to kill your wind.
If all else fails, try something like BodyQuick and see how you react to it.

My endurance and lung capacity seems to be inconsistant.
Some days I'm winded jogging up a few flights of stairs, other days I'm doing an hour of interval training on the highest setting on the elliptical cross trainer, feeling no pain.

Long distance endurance seems to be the first thing to go if you take too many days off; while high intensity endurance suffers if you overtrain.

The key right now is to figure out how your body works and figure out what works best for you. Good luck.

just remembered this one. Try exhaling when you feel like you can't breathe. I noticed this applies to hyperventaltion & feeling out of breath when you're working out as well as when someone knocks the wind out of you. Deep stomach breathing from kung fu/qigong also has worked pretty well for me & learning to relax my breath.

[Water Dragon]

Thanks everyone. I'm gonna try some of this out. I'm gonna check with my coach as well, but he's fighting in the Ironheart this Saturday, so I don't really wanna bother him with this until after the fight.

[red5angel]

well seeing as how none of us are fukking doctors.....

how about you go see one? It's very possible you could have done some serious damage to your lungs, but you won't know that until you have someone look at you. If I were you, I'd go have them checked out anyway just to be sure, and get more then one opinion. Before you go sucking on tea leaves, holding the lotus postion while clenching butt cheeks and focusing qi, see a doctor.

[Ray Pina]

Funny post, but true:)

BBanga, you're right, it's all about the exhale. YOu can actually choke yourself if you try to inhale at those points. The lungs are like a sponge or bag, empty them and they want to fill up naturally.

[Mutant]

as suggested, get to the doctor and get checked out for asthma or any other ailments. they can check your lung capacity against standard charts and give you a capacity tester to take home to moniter progression (its a plastic cylinder w/ a plunger a graph on it). they can also hook you up with an inhaler that may help a lot. i was suprised looking at the charts that lung capacity really doesnt decrease as much with age as you might expect, but there is no denying that are bodies change and it takes more work. i think its fairly common as you get older whether you smoke regularly or not, but just due to living in a metropolitan area with lots of polution is bad too and it takes its toll.

lungs take a while to clean themselves out... but you can keep pushing the anaerobic threshold and recovery time to higher levels. you may have hit a ceiling due to all those years of smoking, so you probably need to open up those passageways some more to keep increasing your capacity and blow all that crap out of there... you may be able to speed up the process by using an inhaler an some herbal remedies before and after workouts and chi gung exercises sure couldnt hurt either. my fiance buys this really good oil/herb (not sure what it is) that you can cook like tea and breath it in or put a dab on your upper lip and it opens your lungs up.

as i said it takes a while but you can have huge improvements, afterall you just quit smoking recently (congratulations on that!) so you need some time to recover.
my dad smoked for most of his younger life and then became a serious marathon runner, ran the boston about 10 times and most of the other big marathons and would average about 85 miles a week training and his lungs are in great shape still today. he didnt run as fast as bill rogers and frank shorter who were winning back then but he was about 10 years older than those guys too and still managed some good times.

its not a quick-fix but you sure can impove it, and like e-fist said we can also work on efficiency and regulation as thats a major factor too. good luck!

[Stacey]

get cho ass some lung yin.

some kidney tonifiers to grasp the wind.

[ShaolinTiger00]

You're allergic to flan!

:(

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im with cdlee and red.

you're old and need professional help.

[phantom]

I am sorry to hear this, Water Dragon. Perhaps drinking pomegranate juice may also help, as I have heard that it has even more antioxidants in it than green tea does. I have also heard that drinking white wine is also good for your lungs, so maybe that would also help you. I would definitely go to a doctor first though, but ask him about this. Good luck, and I hope you get bettter soon.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Take them out and see if you can notice anything wrong with them.

[ketchup]

waterdragon-

I went to my chinese herbalist today, having just quit smoking. I asked her to recommend something to clean/repair any lung damage and she suggested a tea to clear toxins and poisons from the lungs, it cost about 5 USD, its called Lung Flush Herbal Tea, if your local chinatown doesn't have it you can contact the company, Herb Depot, at 416 595-0011. Enjoy-

[Becca]

ST00 also has good point. Many, but not all, develop asthma over time from being exposed to allergins such as dust mites, hay feaver, and flan. (Flan has lots of eggs.);)


Is it dangerous to do nothing about an allergy?
In some cases, it is dangerous to ignore allergy symptoms. Severe and untreated hay fever may lead to asthma, sinusitis, and other serious conditions. Allergic dermatitis or eczema can spread to secondary infections if they are not treated properly, and untreated asthma can lead to chronic symptoms. Early detection and treatment of all allergic diseases is important.

Seasonal allergic rhinitis sometimes called "hay fever" is caused by an allergy to the pollen of trees, grasses, weeds or mold spores. Depending on what you are allergic to, the section of the country and the pollination periods, seasonal allergic rhinitis may occur in the spring, summer or fall and may last until the first frost. The sufferer has spells of sneezing, itching and watery eyes, runny nose, burning palate and throat. Seasonal allergies also can trigger asthma.
Allergic rhinitis is a general term used to apply to anyone who has symptoms of nasal congestion, sneezing and a runny nose due to allergies. This may be a seasonal problem as with hay fever, or it may be a year-round problem caused by indoor allergens such as dust mite droppings, animal dander, ****roach droppings or indoor molds/mildew. Frequently, this problem is complicated by sinusitis. Patients with constant nasal symptoms should consult their allergist.


- exerpt fro pamplet from the Amercican Association for Allergies and Asthma

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
im with cdlee and red.

you're old and need professional help.

I agree with Chang Style Novice.

I'm quoting GDA's post, though, 'cos it's funnier than CSN's.

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
Is this a reacent drop in cardio efficiency??

Or are you just not happy with your performance compared to your peers?

[Water Dragon]

I'm unhappy with my performance compared to where I want to be.

[Royal Dragon]

He he he, you and me both.

Seriously, see if you can get Brian to teach you one of his intermediate Long Fist forms, and work it till you can go non stop for 40 minutes or so. It will take a wile, but the cardio you gte is incredible.

Also, I meant the lets sparr comment. My backs strong enough now. Although 18 months or so of Qi Gong, back therapy, and a bit of forms hasn't done anything for my skills, I can play now if you still want to. I was really just worried about a re injury before, especially with going against a Shui Chiao guy.

PM me, and we can discuss the details if you like.

[KC Elbows]

I got a ten that says he's incontinent from the violence of the coughs on his intestines and bedridden by August 15. Who's in?

We'll lay out the odds:

1) Full recovery: sucker bet, he's a goner, but we'll give you 1 in 3 WD makes a full recovery.

2) Loses a lung: Even odds, I'll give you 2 to 1 if you specify which lung, bet only good if it occurs from this bout of The Disease, to be tallied end of December, 2004.

3) Dies: even odds, bet by date, I've got September ninth. All bets off if he dies from a flare up of that weird rash he got back in Singapore in '95.

4) Sidebet: I've got a fiver he holds all bodily functions until three minutes after heart rate stops, don't be a sucker, it's easy money for the winner.

WD, there's a lot to be made for those you leave behind, I'm putting a ten in for ya, I know an excellent doctor, full hospice, he's got twenty on 3 and another five on body functions letting go twenty seconds after heart, but he's taken that hypocrites oathe, so it'll all be good.

But see a doctor anyway. I don't want to hear accusations of a fix.

[KC Elbows]

I've looked back at that last post, and I'm ashamed. I'm sorry to have ever said that to you, Water Dragon.

[KC Elbows]

Screw that, and screw you! I've thought about it again, and this is America; if I can find a way to make an almighty buck off of the damaged lungs of another forum member, more power to me!

****er!

[KC Elbows]

Due to your attitude in this matter, I'm placing you on ignore, Water Dragon. I suggest that this lung disease might be the end result of the anti-trade communist sympathizer marxist gay agenda you've been hiding in your black heart!

[rubthebuddha]

just as long as WD doesn't catch a third case of the ghey, i think he'll be safe for many more decades. ;)

WD -- honestly, the best ways i've found to improve my wind is by either eating more cheese or by doing tabata-flavored sprints. basically, you're 20 seconds sprint, 10 seconds slow, for a total of eight sets. you can play with the duration and set numbers, but little rest helps (a) little, but i've gotten much better wind from this, even without cheese.

red5 can back me up on this one, as he's gotten some gains after only a couple weeks, and he's had good wind already.

these sprints can be running, jumping rope, etc., or you can do what i like -- do a full eight sets of body-weight squats (alternately lift your knees to your chest during the "rest" period), then move on to 8 sets of pushups, punctuated by brief sets of either crunches or supermen. the idea is burst followed by slow. a base set takes 4 minutes, two can take 8, and they're easy to squeeze in after any workout. if you're not hating yourself by the seventh set, sprint faster. :)

just a thought. i'm not an expert (nor do i get to play one on tv :(). just don't catch the ghey again, and things will improve.

[KC Elbows]

Catch the ghey? He's giving it out faster than vienna sausages at a dinner party!

[Royal Dragon]

KC, you feeli'n OK?

[rubthebuddha]

i think he's been enjoying wd's sausage too much and may have caught it himself. :(

WD -- how has this changed, for better or worse, in recent weeks? are you sucking less (air) than before as time goes on and able to keep up better, or are you getting worse?

[bamboo_ leaf]

There are test that they can do to check the function of your lungs as well as x-rays to determine if there is anything else going on.

This should be your first stop. If nothing is wrong then you will have to look into other areas. I think most of your trainers would know what to do after you determine that there is no med. Problem.

Best of luck

[red5angel]

I'm backin' rub up on this after stop choking on my carrot stick after reading KC's string of insane posts. I think it's the fear of death corgi that has you rattled!

It's true the tabata thing is pretty cool. It's tough, real tough, I still can't do anything on teh 10 second rest period but walk around and gasp but I'm running faster long distance and my wind is up.

[KC Elbows]

I'm watching my mother in laws chihuahua right now, and I'll telly you, I may have found the one creature in all of existence that your corgi could possibly beat. It's like a cross between a mouse and a fruit bat, without the wings. I'll make certain to let you know when the little freak passes away so that your corgi can retake it's position as bottom of the food chain.:D

[red5angel]

LOL! just to warn you, corgis are can get perfect "ball" height when they jump. Your just a short trip down 35 to sudden and swift corgi doom.

[Water Dragon]

You @ssholes gave my thread the Ghey again!

Gian, I'm pretty busy with work, trainkng, and getting everything ready for the move. I'm gonna try to be at the Bullshido showdown this month though. Other than that, you're definately welcome to come down to Indiana whenever you want. We have class on Tues & Thurs from 7-10:30-11:00 ans Sat from 3:00 - 6:00

[KC Elbows]

We wouldn't have given your thread the ghey if your thread hadn't asked for it.

[Chang Style Novice]

All together now!

Y! M-C-A! (http://www.bartcop.com/air-force-dance.jpg)

[The Willow Sword]

Its official that CSN is now FUnnier than GDA in this thread.

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
I'll have to try for the Sat. Week days are out as I work, have family responsibilities and such.

The Sat times would be good. Let me check my scedual, I think I can be there before the end of the month.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Hey WD let lil Joe know about the Bullshido thing. His work schedule is crazy, but i think he'd enjoy the fighting.