White Ape??? Where did the monkeys go?

[darksands]

so Im just being kinda playful about this, just so no flaming starts, this topic is just something I find intresting and it is my opinion, I will say I can be wrong.

So many people call it white ape. Is it really an ape? Thinking about it, Ive never really seen a white ape before. Chinese translations can be tricky. I think they mean White Gibbon, a monkey. Thats just something to think about though, dont take my word for it.

http://www.peterstuff.net/images/gibbon.jpg

[Oso]

gibbons are apes, not monkeys.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/question660.htm

:)

[Judge Pen]

Oso, you strike me as the kind of guy that would sit up and watch Animal Planet when you have trouble sleeping.

[MantisifuFW]

Greetings,

I was informed by Mainland Tanglang practitioners that "Bai Yuan", (White Ape), was a young boy who lived in a cave with his mother. The story is of Bai Yuan leaving the cave, stealing the peach, spying the banquet, displaying filial piety, seeing the north star and others...

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[Ming Yue]

...... wanders off to look up "filial".....

[Oso]

evolution is a minor hobby.....

MantisifuFW, is there somewhere to read that entire story?

honor family

[mantis108]

I am under the impression that White Ape series is rather a late addition to the Tradition Tanglang. That's why not all PM style would have it.

The White Ape series, as far as I am aware came from a branch of Baiyuan Tongbi system. The Tongbi system is quite possibly one of the most ancient system of CMA. It is of note that Tongbi has a warm up/conditioning exercise that can be found in other systems such as Xingyi. The arm rotation moves are quite remarkable and practical exercises as well as applications. Tainan showed me couple of these and I was very impressed by them.

Mantis108

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by mantis108
I am under the impression that White Ape series is rather a late addition to the Tradition Tanglang. That's why not all PM style would have it.

The White Ape series, as far as I am aware came from a branch of Baiyuan Tongbi system. The Tongbi system is quite possibly one of the most ancient system of CMA. It is of note that Tongbi has a warm up/conditioning exercise that can be found in other systems such as Xingyi. The arm rotation moves are quite remarkable and practical exercises as well as applications. Tainan showed me couple of these and I was very impressed by them.

Mantis108

That's interesting since I thought the "white ape steals the peach" form we learned this weekend had a xingyi feel to it in places.

[MantisifuFW]

Mantis 108,

Right you are! The through the back/ through the arms boxing is the second of the Eighteen Families, "Han Tong De Tongbei Wui Mu" Han Tong's Tongbei is the mother (of power), refers to the jing method of this ancient system. This possible origin of the Bai Yuan sets, Bai Yuan Tong Bei Quan, exists side by side with the story. (Of course you already know this but I have been absent from the board from some time and want to chime in).

Oh, by the way the set is White Ape Bows To the North Star... my error.

I had a great time studing this style with Master Liang at the Shaolin Temple.

Good topic to revisit,
Steve Cottrell

[EarthDragon]

I need a little clarifcation please. I was under the impression that tongbei at least in 8 step is mostly found using things in unison, i.e double pushing, double attacks and the like. You can definatly feel jing in the way we get into those applcations sort of like a figure 8 momentum, but again I have always known tong bei to be added in two's............. any comments?

[MantisifuFW]

ED

Perhaps it is a matter of a difference in emphasis between families. Ging, or Jing can be felt up one's spine especially clearly in hand/ elbow techniques. The Eighteen Elders Poem definately does not limit it to two handed techniques. Perhaps if you have access to your line's interpretation of this poem it would shead greater light. In the meantime, yours is an interesting perspective to be sure!

Steve Cottrell

[B.Tunks]

Oso,

I will try to do a complete translation of the whole tale next year and put it up on my site. My uncle has a very old manuscript with the story on it, at least as old as Fan Xudong's generation.

BT

[Oso]

sweeeeet, speaking of which, havn't been to your site in a while......


so, there are 4 white ape sets?


Exits cave

spies banquet

steals peach

bows to north star


I'm a bit fascinated with this series. Under my old sifu we had movements referred to as 'monkey steals grapes' which are identical to the groin grabbing tech in the version I learned this past weekend and a movement called 'tiger plays with ball' that approximates one of the throwing movements in the set as well.

[EarthDragon]

Thank you Steve,
perhaps you are correct about the families.

I have always heard of sifu saying this is from tong bei when applying double techniques , but then again he was always pointing out things as we were training with broken english and maybe I just assumed I heard it only when attacking with double techniques.

[B.Tunks]

Oso,

There are many. The core are; Steals the peach, Exits the cave, Presents the peach/fruit. The next are: Climbs the tree, Moves or gathers the branches, Enters the cave , Shows filial piety to (worships) his mother, Presents the book. There are also; Bows to the north star, Sits on/guards the hill and a few more really obscure ones.

bt