Ninja 'Documentary' on Discovery channel last night

[Abstract]

did anyone else see this? or seen it before?

was is just me or was the 'ninja master' Mr. Hayes a bit kooky?:eek:

[Judge Pen]

I hadn't read about Stephen Hayes since my ninja craze in the mid 80s. Even then he seemed a little kooky to me and I was 10!

[mortal]

He isn't as good as he thinks he is.

What tech did he use when he got in the bathroom?

Do all great ninjas end up on their back in a bathtub?

He looked prone for a good stomping by the gaurd who was still standing.

I say this with all humbleness. I would destroy him.

Thanks for playing!

[Abstract]

that kind of put it over the top for me

he didn't even try to push the guard outta the way, he tried to sneak past him & grab the hat & the guard shoved him headlong into the bathtub...

i was TRYING to give him the benefit of the doubt the whole show, then he ends up on his @$$ in the tub....i said, man this clown...:(

[mortal]

Lolol Guys like him are why people think martial arts are bull****.

It was very funny though.

[Shaolinlueb]

aww man i missed it? :( white man ninja, what do you expect. i doubt true ninjitsu even exists anymore.

[travelsbyknight]

His objective wasn't to beat the guards up. His objective was to assassinate the dude/take his hat off. The guard didn't even try to shoot him.

His technique was very valid. The "special forces" people relied solely on their numbers and their rapid fire guns. The way Mr. Hayes went about it was the smart way. No one got hurt. Ninjas were supposed to manipulate things in the background without anyone finding out.

You say you could destroy STephen Hayes. Prove it or shut up. Fighting is the ninja's LAST way to defend themselves. They exhaust every other avenue first. So even if you did go to fight him it wouldn't happen. Why fight you when he can just call the cops?

I was too young to be around for the ninja craze of the 80s but I became a ninja book reader later on in life. The I lost interest and recently my interest has peaked. Their espianage and fighting techniques look okay. I don't really care for them because I like kung fu better. I do, however, admire the ninja view of spiritual enlightenment.

[sean_stonehart]

To parrot travelsbyknight... touch him or shut up.

I studied in the Bujinkan in the early to mid 90's. I met SKH. Great guy. I saw him tie a guy up into a pretzel knot... literally.

There are lots of frauds & fakes in the "ninja" relm of MA. He isn't one of them.

[Phrost]

I've got it Tivo'd. Haven't seen it yet.

[Ray Pina]

I went to one of his students schools in Jersey when I was about 18 to check it out and was prepared to see a laughing stock ... I was impressed.

The senior student carried a 4 foot stick and did some amazing things with it and demonstrated a back breaking technique where he locked the guys arm and had the stick pass along the guys spine and then kick out the legs .... he also took a shoe lace and intercepted an attack and tied the guy up pretty quickly.

They also practiced some simgle movement drills -- I remember "fire" -- that I did not understand at the time. Now studying Hsing-I I can understand what they were trying to accomplish.

O, and also, almost forgot, I met a ninja at a party in Brooklyn about a year ago --- specifically remember my girlfriend making fun of me when I said "got to pay my respects to the ninja" before leaving.

I asked him aside to chi sau and he utilized his elbows for control and had good structure and couldn't explain any of it technically but was doing things right, very right, much better than wing chun, though he never played the game before .... said he studied upstate and that his teacher wa s abad ass and I could believe it.

I had at least 35 lbs on this guy. I believe I could have taken him, but it wouldn't have been as easy as it should have for having 35 lbs on the guy .... he moved very well.


Didn't see this documentary, though .... wish I had. But if its discovery I'm sure it will be on 23 more times before the month is out .... right after these rediculous robotic tiger vs robotic shark episoded. Hate them. Guy says the shark bite does more damage when the skin in wet:confused: Really? As apposed to all those shark attacks taking place where, in the mall?

[norther practitioner]

shark bite does more damage when the skin in wet Really? As apposed to all those shark attacks taking place where, in the mall?

Wow, living where you do, I'm surprised you haven't gotten a shark bite yourself in a LI mall....

[Ray Pina]

I actually got chased out of the water two summers ago by a Great White .... my friends insisted it must have been a whale but I told them the tail was going side-to-side, not up and down.

A week later they caught one in a clam boat net about 50 yards off shore six blocks away.

As far as the malls out here, lots of eye candy but everything is cheesey and expensive .... talking about the girls and product.

[norther practitioner]

Exactly, part of the reason I moved out here.


I don't know about this whole ninja thing, 'cause on one hand, they are tottally sweet, on the other, you really do have a bunch of cooks....


I have to say though, I've met one ninjutsu guy who could beat me down in a heart beat.

[mortal]

I'll prove it anyday! He ended up on his ass in the bath tub. That is not killing someone. It was like point sparring for ninjas.
For the purpose of the show I could tell his empty hand skills only worked when they were preplanned. Any MASTER would never let 2 guys take him out in a small room like that. My wing chun teacher is untouchable. Never mind getting thrown in a bath tub on his back! That should never happen to any master or sifu. If it has happened you should find a real teacher.

[sean_stonehart]

Well you can always provie it anyday at his place (http://www.daytonquest.com/) . It's just down the road in Ohio. Shouldn't be an issue to prove.

:rolleyes:

Let us know how you fare.

[norther practitioner]

Is that George Carlin's brother?:D

[mortal]

I don't have to prove it I know it. People who know me, know it. That is good enough for me.

[ShaolinTiger00]

His technique was very valid. The "special forces" people relied solely on their numbers and their rapid fire guns.

LOL!! You're suggesting that the Seals do not have highly advanced tactics and skills. hysterical..

How many special forces guys ended up on their ass? SF casualties - 0%, ninja casualties - 100%

[mortal]

He didn't even use any smoke bombs. lolo

Who cares about him going in dressed as a stage hand. The audience wanted to see his mystical ninja skills. Not a stage hand getting pushed into a bath tub. lolo

[kungfu cowboy]

Funny you should mention stage hand, as he was a theatre major in college, I think.

Wow, I was soooo into ninjas in the 80's! Including all the garb and gear, I had several of Hayes' books, was a member of The Shadows of Iga, (his ninja newsletter)very desperately wantd to get down to Kettering to train, and we even pranked Larry "Bud" Malmstrom on the phone (immature kids ordering climbing claws). Sweet!:D

[Abstract]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


SF casualties - 0%, ninja casualties - 100%


ahhahaaaa...

NP george carlin's brother....that's the 1st thing i thought of when i was watchin it last night


..."okay..what you wanna do to neutralize your F()*&@%G enemy is GRAB HIm by the B@LLS and slice em off with you ninja sword!!"

LOL


guys i don't doubt he has some skills...but if he really does, they were seriously lacking on the documentary...did you SEE HIM? was he still supposed to be the bumbling ninja when he so deftly made the move for the hat? is that a special style akin to drunken fist?

gimme a break

[Abstract]

Originally posted by mortal
He didn't even use any smoke bombs. lolo

Who cares about him going in dressed as a stage hand. The audience wanted to see his mystical ninja skills. Not a stage hand getting pushed into a bath tub. lolo


AHHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAA:D :p

how did i miss this post?

[ShaolinTiger00]

is that a special style akin to drunken fist?

No just the reaction of the typical TMA "master" who has little experience with a fully resisting opponent.

[mortal]

..."okay..what you wanna do to neutralize your F()*&@%G enemy is GRAB HIm by the B@LLS and slice em off with you ninja sword!!"

That made me crack up and I'm still at work.

[Phrost]

Seemed fairly straightforward until they started talking about clarivoyance as a real thing.

I was even more disappointed to find that Hayes himself thinks it's real.

[rogue]

It had promise, it just didn't deliver. Hayes was disappointing, I couldn't figure out if he sucked or was just going slow for the camera. Maybe age. I don't get what's so good about taking four hours to do the mission and then getting "killed" in the process. It would have been interesting to see how one SEAL would have done the mission.

The clarivoyance thing was sad.


Any MASTER would never let 2 guys take him out in a small room like that. My wing chun teacher is untouchable. Never mind getting thrown in a bath tub on his back! That should never happen to any master or sifu. If it has happened you should find a real teacher.

Yes, MASTERs and to a lesser extent sifu, are all experts at CQB and counter assasination techiques. :D

[Musicalkatachmp]

I thought it was awesome how he accomplished the mission! He was all by himself and didn't use any weapons...there was nothing in the rules about not ending up on your back in the bathtub...I would like to see how you guys that are giving him a hard time would accomplish this task...and he seemed like a cool guy to me when I met him about 12 years ago, and still seems like one...my bro has a pic with him...he was my first sensei's instructor...but go ahead and talk trash about him on here, I'm sure he doesn't know or care...

anyway I thought the show was awesome and his method of getting the guys hat off was great...reminded me of "The Count of Monte Cristo" or "Silence of the Lambs"...pure genius, IMO...

[wdl]

XMA, now this. I haven't seen it yet. Problem is considering Discovery Channel's current MA track record I don't know if I want to. Wasted a good two hours I could have used training instead of watching XMA. Will this be the same?

So... was this better, worse, or equal to XMA?

-Will

[Ray Pina]

"Any MASTER would never let 2 guys take him out in a small room like that. My wing chun teacher is untouchable. Never mind getting thrown in a bath tub on his back! That should never happen to any master or sifu. If it has happened you should find a real teacher."

Have you ever seen your WC master fight with two strangers who want to beat him at the same time? I'm putting good money on "no".

Have you ever personally seen your teacher fight someone who was not a student or friend, a complete stranger who wanted to rip his head off?

After we see the answer to this, then we can discuss how very difficult it is to bring out 90% of ones skill in a high stress situation, ect. But first I'm cursious if you have any evidence to suggest that your teacher could take two resisting apponants in a single, closed space.

[Abstract]

i'm not hating on dude...i give him credit for getting as far as he did, & pullin the hat off.....'hats off to you, sensei hayes':p (jokes)

like i said he's obviously pretty knowledgable & seems like a likeable person....

however

he still went headlong into the tub as he went for the hat. he didn't 'get past' the guard. the guard pushed him into the tub as he went for the hat & he landed on his arse.

yo fellas, at that point, ain't no 'tub fighting' kata gettin you out that. he woulda been 'dead-doggy'.

i guess to summerize, the bumbling stage hand act worked well but the bumbling ninja didn't.

[Chang Style Novice]

Lee Van Cleef would totally pwnzor all other supposed master ninjas.

[MasterKiller]

Lee Van Cleef was Sonny Chiba's, aka Hatori Hanzo's**, beyotch.












**not the Kill Bill Hatori Hanzo but the Hatori Hanzo from the Japanese TV series.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by mortal
My wing chun teacher is untouchable.

Oh boy :rolleyes: Here we go...

[Chang Style Novice]

Did Hatori Hanzo have a sidekick with whom he drove around in a van solving mysteries? Did he, huh?

And did that sidekick later turn into a director and writer for HBO, creating some of the very best episodes of the Sopranos and The Wire? Well?

I thought not.

[MasterKiller]

Did Lee Van Cleef come back to play his descendants not one, not two, not three, not four, but five times? How many ninjas can get away with playing his character, his character's son, his character's son's son, character's son's son's son, and character's son's son's son's son? Only Sonny Chiba, baby.

[Chang Style Novice]

Three words, muhfuh -

Good

Bad

Ugly

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Three words, muhfuh -

Good

Bad

Ugly http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1800081463&cf=info&intl=us

[Chang Style Novice]

lol

Literally. I laughed out loud.

[Chang Style Novice]

And even so...

http://imdb.com/title/tt0049092/

[mortal]

I am not hating on him either. I watched the whole show.

I had a ninja suit when I was twelve.

I'll say one thing. If I caught two guys off gaurd they would have no chance. If my teacher caught them the odds would be even less then that. lolo www.sifugrados.com Check him out.

[Ray Pina]

Are you guys in Queens?

If so, are classes open to guests?

[Musicalkatachmp]

He said something during that made it sound as if he wanted to accomplish the mission w/o using physical force, so maybe he could have tooled both guards but that wasn't his objective...

BUT...

as far as fighting the guards remember they had experience in law enforcement and as bodyguards and remember they both had (laser) guns, whereas Hayes was unarmed. So is Hayes a dissapointment b/c he did not try to fight two guys with guns? I say no, b/c he accomplished the objective...what difference does it make how he did it...the way in which he did it was very clever IMO and that way of thinking probably helps him in many day-to-day situations as well as potentially life threatening ones...being able to take two guys with guns would be a great ability, but can anyone do it? Sure it is possible...like if both guys keep missing or they are afraid of hitting eachother or something...it is possible but very improbable and Hayes would have been a fool to attempt it when he could achieve his goal in a way that posed much less of a risk to himself...

EDIT:
Just one more thing...in ninjutsu a lot of the moves are pretty brutal which is why it is effective for real life...should Hayes have given one bodyguard a shuto to his neck and the other a kick to the groin? For the documentary?

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by mortal


I'll say one thing. If I caught two guys off gaurd they would have no chance. If my teacher caught them the odds would be even less then that. lolo www.sifugrados.com Check him out.

Supa tough guy, on the scene! B.S. alert!

[MonkeySlap Too]

Actually his teacher doesn't look too bad to me...Ukokusai is just overly enthusiastic...back in the day I had students get me into trouble by telling folks I was the baddest mofo around...which is pretty funny really...

[MonkeySlap Too]

Although his defense against a hook shows he never fought a really good boxer...but a good hook is about as common as a good Karate school...so no surprise there.

Like the 'Human League' playing in the background. Apparently he hits people so hard they go back in time....

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too


Like the 'Human League' playing in the background. Apparently he hits people so hard they go back in time....

LOL

[mortal]

The school is in NYC.

[mortal]

Yes the classes are open to guests.

[unkokusai]

Is talking to yourself part of the invincible superman course?

[mortal]

It is not required in the curriculum.

The life of an invincible superman isn't all beer and skittles.

If your good and you say it why does it **** everyone off so much? I would rather someone be honest about how good they really are. It doesn't mean I'm not humble. Or unbeatable. Just being honest. I'm sure there are many good martial artists on thi site. I would rather they be honest about it.
If I see someone who is good I always give credit.
When I see someone get pushed in a bathtub. Well what can I say?

Stephen Hayes spoke with the most pretentious condescending tone. That is what motivated me to semi-bash him.

I also train shaolin with one of the fake, dancing, acrobatic, ec-circus clown, wushu monks. lol Good combo of styles. Looks flashy and kicks @ss too!

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by mortal
If your good and you say it why does it **** everyone off so much?


'Cause most people who 'say' it , really aren't.


They ruin it for everyone!:p

[mortal]

Well I guess you have a point.

How good do you have to be to take 2 guys out who aren't expecting it if you have been training for 6 years?

[rubthebuddha]

not quite, unko. i'd say it's more a matter of who cares, and i don't believe many people will answer "we."

touting yourself or your teacher does little for anyone.

take merryp as an example -- he may be a low-down, dirty scoundrel, but he never bothers to tell us when he wins a tourney, which, prior to an injury, happened as frequently as he shaved. someone else has to point it out to us, even though we honestly want to know. could be false humility, could be legit. either way, at least he's not saying, "look at me!" on a regular basis.

[rubthebuddha]

How good do you have to be to take 2 guys out who aren't expecting it if you have been training for 6 years? as good as hacksaw jim duggan, which means good enough to swing a 2x4. ;)

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
not quite, unko. i'd say it's more a matter of who cares, and i don't believe many people will answer "we."



Unless they speak French.

[mortal]

I guess we are just 2 different people.

Hey look at ME!!!!!! I'm the GREATEST!!!!!!!!!!!! My teacher rules the WORLD!!!!!!!!!

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by mortal
I guess we are just 2 different people.

Hey look at ME!!!!!! I'm the GREATEST!!!!!!!!!!!! My teacher rules the WORLD!!!!!!!!!


Don't beat around the bush. Just come out and say what you mean!

[rogue]

Discovery channel just showed part two of the Ninja documentary. This time it was Royce Gracie who had to grab the hat. He disguised himself as a bath mat and when the target stepped on him that was all she wrote.

[YinYangDagger]

"I also train shaolin with one of the fake, dancing, acrobatic, ec-circus clown, wushu monks. lol"

So you train in Shaolin-do?

[mortal]

I hope to one day work my way up the ranks so I could train under one of shaolin-do potbellied sifu's.

I am thinking of joining the tae kwon do school around the corner just to pick up chicks.