spear / pole arts

[foolinthedeck]

hi,
i do wing chun and yang taiji. as part of my wing chun i do pole form - 9 foot long chinese hardwood.

my question is this:
how are spear of pole forms set up in 'internal' martial arts. i presume that wing chuns pole form is fairly external, but would an internal pole form be internal - from what i read about what makes taiji, xingyi etc internal, it would be pretty difficult to simply translate that straight into the pole / spear. seems like a lot of taiji / xingyi is straight on ie down the centreline, wing chun pole is down a different line to this and so would taiji pole right?
so???

also, i'm interested form the perspective of medieval polearms, i hope to begin working with a dark age re-enactment group learning viking/saxon/norman pole and spear techniques and i'm interested in how different or similar these will be from the wing chun pole.

[Sam Wiley]

The principles that make an internal art internal also apply easily to the weapons. I would go so far as to say that they are more readily discernible in weapons forms, where things are usually kept simpler.

In Taiji spear, yes, there are strikes directly on the centerline, but there are also strikes to other places. One should learn to take full advantage of the weapon. Taiji spear includes high and low stances, direct and indirect attacks, linear and circular, etc. It's all included.

I can't really say much about Taiji long staff, though.

[Midnight]

I practice Taiji staff form (18 movements). And it's very centerline.

When performing Taiji staff one should be picturing themselves doing it while in a 6-7 foot wide hallway. Just you and your opponent, directly infront of each other with nowhere to go but forward and back.

With this in mind you'll have some idea of what Taiji staff form is like.

[foolinthedeck]

surely you dont hold the pole or spear straight out at a 90 degree angle from your body in front of you? we do that with the wing chun pole as a training exercise but fight with it side on in a kind of cat stance - not like a wing chun stance at all!
so when fighting there is always a lead leg and a rear leg unlike when fighting without. from my understanding of empty hand taiji things are similar, you wouldnt turn side on bruce lee style becuasse you wouldnt be able to move from the centre. while using a pole you would hold it roughly sideways and not use the movement of the centre as much... am i making it clear? let me 'try' to use pictures:

______
<O>

makes sense

l
l
l
<O>

does not.

\
\
\
\
<
O
>
maybe this one above is best?

[foolinthedeck]

argh! they looked fine when i typed them honest!!

try again fool:

_____
.........<O>

looks ok

.....l
.....l
.....l
..<O>

looks bad

\
.\
..\
...\
...<
....O
.....>

looks best?
(O is the head, < left arm >right arm, \ pole)

[GLW]

Stance work for the spear..or most long weapons...

Gong bu (front stance), Ban Ma bu (half horse), Xu bu (empty stance), Du li (single leg), Pu bu (hanging or crouch stance), Heng Dan bu (half hanging stance)...and on occasion, Ma bu.

The weapon is not normally held in the front..unless you are doing a thrust as in La Na Zha (where you end up thrusting forward with a Gong bu.

The hands are typically what is referred to as Yin Yan Shou - Yin Yang hand...one is up the other is down...usually the right hand is down facing and the left is up ...

[Midnight]

Yes these stick positions are used in Taiji staff

__ _ _ __
..^ O ^

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O|
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Eyes facing towards the top of the monitor on both diagrams