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Merryprankster
06-07-2004, 12:27 PM
So,

This afternoon, I worked out the soup dumpling recipe from Joe's Shanghai.

I discovered the right dough recipe in a Dim Sum book written by a chinese woman.

I discovered the right FILLING mixture in a book I have by Eileen Yin Fei Lo.

I made them this afternoon, served them with *****iang Vinegar and Sliced Ginger.

They were perfect.

So, my question is, is this really Chinese food or is it "American Chinese," since I am as white as they come?

I'm confused about this, because there was a big thread awhile back that claimed two things:

1. That a chinese art taught by a non-chinese person isn't really authentic,

2. Chinese food cooked by a mexican line cook wouldn't really be Chinese. It would be "Chinacan."

Please help.

Thanks.

Tak
06-07-2004, 12:31 PM
What were you wearing when you cooked it?
Did you stir with the arms, or did you employ whole body power?
Does Eileen Yin Fei Lo have an unbroken lineage directly to Yin Fu?

norther practitioner
06-07-2004, 12:33 PM
No, it has no whole fried fish, or noodles.

Chang Style Novice
06-07-2004, 01:06 PM
Obviously, there's no way to tell just from a written description. I'll have to get first-hand experience to make a determination like that.

A couple dozen should be plenty for my testing.

e-gram me for the address to send them to.

:p

David Jamieson
06-07-2004, 04:05 PM
Are all roman catholics roman?

Is a dutchy dutch?

The recipe is Chinese, what you made was just plain tasty...probably, I don't know, you didn't send any along.

T'ai Ji Monkey
06-07-2004, 04:19 PM
It really depends. I do a lot of cooking and you can't really go by WHO wrote the recipe.

For me the deciding factor is if the taste/flavour and ingredients were adjusted to what is locally available for easier preparation.

Having eaten plenty of food in a variety of countries I know that "ethnic" food flavour is quiet often adjusted to the local flavour or even to "ideas" of what it should be.

If you want authentic flavour than there is only one place where you can get it.

joedoe
06-07-2004, 04:22 PM
Well MP, it is not what you cooked, but how you cooked it that counts. As long as you have covered all flavour ranges and have tested them against a fully resisting food critic then you should be fine :D

PaulH
06-07-2004, 05:27 PM
If it tastes good, it must be Chinese! =)

Royal Dragon
06-07-2004, 05:47 PM
How does your meal hold up in the ring against a Gracie? If he gives it his thumbs up, then it's just Kick Boxer Food. If Gracie chokes [on] it, it's Chinese Kung Food!!!

WanderingMonk
06-07-2004, 06:40 PM
It all depends on the lineage. some lineage recognize chinese foods cooked by foreign cooks as chinese, but the more conservative schools won't. But, in the modern china, if you apply for a license from the prc, you can cook whatever you want and call it chinese foods b/c you are licensed. :D

rogue
06-07-2004, 07:42 PM
We will let our judges, Azuma Chizuru, Saito Keiko and of course Junior, decide if it's Chinese. (http://www.ironchef.com/ironlocation.shtml) Of course you must defeat Chen Kenichi.

SPJ
06-07-2004, 07:46 PM
Salivating!

All we need is rice wine or Tsin Dao beer.

If it is not served with wine, it is not Chinese.

SPJ
06-07-2004, 07:56 PM
I think the real question behind is that if a Chinese art has to be taught by Chinese only otherwise it is not Chinese?

No.

If you can speak some Chinese, you are Chinese. That is it.

If you teach Kung Fu or Chinese cooking, but you speak absolutely nothing in Chinese. It will be hard.

The best Suai Jiao is from Mongolian Chinese.

The best Ba Ji, Tang Twei, Tza Quan are from moslem Chinese.

White Russians live in border towns along the longest border in the world, Sino-russo border. If they speak Chinese, they are white Russian Chinese.

There are many Jewish towns in Shanghai in the 30's. They do business. The speak perfect Chinese and Shanghai dialect. They are Jewish Chinese.

Just a thought.

Have peace.

If you are good at something, you are good. Whether you are Chinese or not, it is not as important.

KC Elbows
06-07-2004, 08:18 PM
Not only is it chinese, but you are a chinese woman. The question is, are you hot?

Vash
06-07-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by KC Elbows
Not only is it chinese, but you are a chinese woman. The question is, are you hot?

Furthermore, if you are, in fact, hot, when you gonna let me hit dat?

omarthefish
06-08-2004, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Merryprankster
I'm confused about this, because there was a big thread awhile back that claimed two things:

1. That a chinese art taught by a non-chinese person isn't really authentic,

2. Chinese food cooked by a mexican line cook wouldn't really be Chinese. It would be "Chinacan."

Please help.

Thanks.

Yeah I stopped posting on that thread after I realized that nobody was actually reading anyone elses posts anymore. The above quote an excellent case in point. There were some arguments being made about the importance of learning the language and the culture but nobody actually made either of those 2 claims.

Straw dog arguments like that get tiresome pretty quick.

(although point number 2. is valid just because it's funny.)

edit: after seing the quote in bold I had a thought: "the thread claimed...." ??? :)

scotty1
06-08-2004, 01:19 AM
1. That a chinese art taught by a non-chinese person isn't really authentic,

I think that's crap.

2. Chinese food cooked by a mexican line cook wouldn't really be Chinese. It would be "Chinacan."

I think that's crap too.
:)

omarthefish
06-08-2004, 01:40 AM
wow.

So every body can agree that racism is bad, crakers can learn kung fu karatee just like Chinamen and what the hell we may as well throw in beating up little kids is bad and everybody likes that single malt scotch is better than bourbona s things we can agree on. (sorry you bourbon drinkers, you just wrong. There's not much else to say, is there? )

That was profound.

scotty1
06-08-2004, 02:06 AM
No need to get profound about it, a pinch of common sense'll do. :)

omarthefish
06-08-2004, 03:50 AM
that . . . was sarchasm.

scotty1
06-08-2004, 04:44 AM
I know, I thought it might be negative sarcasm.

lets stop here.:D :confused:

TaiChiBob
06-08-2004, 04:59 AM
Greetings..

Way too much attention to ethnicity.. (apologies to the purists), but.. I like Chinese food, i can tell Chinese from Mexican food (i like Mexican, too).. the labeling of food's ethnicity refers to its lineage/history not the cook.. too much focus on ethnicity will surely lead to divisive comparisons and hasty remarks..

It would be just as fair to assert that unless you are Chinese you couldn't actually discern the difference anyhow.. that it takes a lifetime of eating Chinese food in China, by Chinese cooks to acquire the nuances of taste to actually tell whether or not the meal was authentic.. Besides, if you find the meal favorable, why bother yourself with such non-essential matters as "authenticity".. will the authenticity somehow alter its nutritional value? Would a normally conceived "Chinese" meal prepared by an ethnic Chinese person that had been raised in Peru and only ever cooked Latino dishes still be authentic Chinese?.. too often we trouble ourselves with distracting trivia, and miss the simple beauty of a well prepared meal..

Be well...

Internal Boxer
06-08-2004, 05:13 AM
Tai Chi Bob

Do you have a sense of Humour?

be well!

Merryprankster
06-08-2004, 05:58 AM
Omar,

What YOU were saying on that thread was QUITE valid. What Earth Dragon was saying was not.

You were NOT saying the same things.

Christopher M
06-08-2004, 06:02 AM
MMmmmm... chinese food...

TaiChiBob
06-08-2004, 06:52 AM
Greetings..

Internal Boxer: Of course i have a sense of humour, i keep posting don't i?...

My students accuse me of being "playfully mischievous", and of "exaggerating the ambiguous".. But, without intonation, inflection and expression it seems that too often innocent humour is mistaken for disrespect or disregard for others.. and, i try to avoid those types of misconceptions..

Be well...

Chang Style Novice
06-08-2004, 07:31 AM
Single malt scotch is better than bourbon in a sports-drinking environment with commonly agreed on rules.

In the streets, where rules don't apply, bourbon would pwnzor single malt scotch.

Seriously, though, what's wrong with enjoying a little Maker's Mark now and again? Variety is the spice of life, ya know.

dodger87
06-08-2004, 07:44 AM
It must be Chinese, look at the name of the author!

No_Know
06-08-2004, 09:31 AM
Having a good meal is fine. But resteraunts close. We move from cities. Sometimes we got a fantastic meal on vacation. Some will not be satisfied to experience greatness without being able to duplicate it repeatedly or get access to it.

Tai Chi Bob, do you go out and say I'll have food or do you ask for specific meals? Do they serve you whatever? Or do they have a general guidline of constantly duplicatable meals?

MerryPrankster, things are patented. Things are regional. Initially when pyramids are mentioned one thinks Egypt, who does not know Mexico or Peru. Certain guns one thins Minutemen, or gambler (cards). As a people, Denmakers do not nor have not theoretically had kimonos as national clothing. But to see a kimono you might think just pretty. If you Know something about kimonos or have associations with them you might refer to Japan or that region.

Food denoted by country is related to associations. Some regions have foods not initially found in at least some other regions. By now with trading countries have products (like techniques) that were not native to that land.

Even though more than one country might have the same type of product, come from the only region it was found in the world, but the quality of it's growing/harvesting might vary for the worse or the better...cognac as opposed to brandy. Or the food that doesn't taste as good as (some) mom(s) make. How much the people away from the source get the idea right and deliver on the concept to the degree sought. Some-such, perhaps.

Even amoung the Chinese it might only be ingredients of Chinese food. Certain techniques or methods of treatment might be required to make it the degree that makes it so called Chinese food. And Unless you Know chinese food (how it is to be prepared and the tradition that got established in making it sought-after. You might see the ingredients and say pretty...I mean that's Chinese food.

There Are specific ways or concepts. They get expanded (experimentation/fancy) or out of order. Or Not all learned. Or what is learned is not necessarily learned well. On the not well part, some accept it and do not know the best so form their opinions from that experience. When more is required, stuff gets made-up. Or you go back and learn it all (the rest). -ish


If the Mexican person does the cooking adhereing to the concepts the Chinese source cooks did, then it's Chinese food.

If the instructor picked-up on the idiosyncrasies of the Chinese and the Style/System of Kung-Fu. This is the Most. Not all Chinese might not get the ideosyncrasies of The Chinese culture base and so not fully understand the Kung-Fu. So it is in general (appearance) but is not (actually) Chinese Kung-Fu no matter the melonin content of the person or their heratige/background.

TaiChiBob
06-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Greetings..

Whatever the subject, it is the individual value standards that dictate the quality of the experience.. where you may assert that it takes "x" to be authentic, i may say it takes "y".. and each will be satisfactory within our respective value systems..

If the goal is to learn Chinese Kung-Fu, then it may be appropriate to immerse one's self into the culture.. if the goal is to develop a self-defense strategy and you find Chines Kung-Fu satisfactory for that purpose, it is not necessarily essential to immerse yourself in the culture, but to simply be faithful to the Kung-Fu..

When i go to a resturant i order from the menu of that resturant, and i expect to get what i ordered.. of course, what i expect is based on my experiences prior to that.. there are few unchallengable standards, so.. i follow my inclinations and don't get too upset if the meal appears to be less than authentic (McMushu).. i look for the value in what is presented, because that is likely all they can relate to..

Too often the dictates of desires or the edicts of expectations leaves real treasures overlooked in the path behind us.. The Tao spreads a bounty before you each day..

Be well..

KC Elbows
06-08-2004, 04:13 PM
This thread saves more incontinent seahorses and holds more honorary degrees at Ivy league colleges than Blooming Lotus. This thread rules the forum. If you don't have milk at home, this thread will come to your home and bring the milk to shoot out your nostrils. For threads like this one, Xebs minimizes the pron. This thread is really chinese, and by that, I mean this thread is superior to other, more occidental threads.

Gangsterfist
06-08-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Single malt scotch is better than bourbon in a sports-drinking environment with commonly agreed on rules.

In the streets, where rules don't apply, bourbon would pwnzor single malt scotch.

Seriously, though, what's wrong with enjoying a little Maker's Mark now and again? Variety is the spice of life, ya know.

Dude, I totally agree with this. Every now and again you just need to get that top shelf, otherwise wells are fine.

I have several friends who are chefs. Each different type of chefs. Basically when you become a proficient cook you are not cooking a peticular type of ethnic food, you are cooking your own food. You just use the knowledge that you have gained cooking, asian, mexican, italian, so on and so forth and making a dish. Sure it can be broken down from what ingredients come from where, but it doesn't matter.

You know what gets me? When people say well bad chinese food, is still not that bad. I totally disagree. Bad chinese food, is still bad food.

I made pasta and curry sauce a few weeks ago. Is it Indian or is it italian? Who cares, it was delicious.

KC Elbows
06-08-2004, 04:42 PM
This thread is so chinese, awkward white kids are now loathing their own culture in order to atone for what western civilization did to this thread.

omarthefish
06-09-2004, 05:14 AM
I'm glad to see the bourbon thing is being exploired so thouroughly but I really wanted to post to extend a formal thank you to MerryPrankster.



Originally posted by Merryprankster
Omar,

What YOU were saying on that thread was QUITE valid. What Earth Dragon was saying was not.

You were NOT saying the same things.

At the time it really looked to me like we were being lumped together and I thought EarthDragon was just not expressing himself very well. I don't rememer exactly how his case was different from mine. Maybe it became clearer after I stopped paying attention to the thread. Maybe I just took some things directed at him as if they were directed at me. If so, my bad. It really bugged me at the time.

omarthefish
06-09-2004, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by scotty1
I know, I thought it might be negative sarcasm.

lets stop here.:D :confused:

Yeah it was. Read my above post and you'll know where it came from. Sorry dude. Nothing to do with you.

p.s. No_know,

re:

Tai Chi Bob, do you go out and say I'll have food or do you ask for specific meals? Do they serve you whatever?

If I can afford it, I actually DO like to let the waiter choose my meal to a large degree. I need to give it the final o.k. but often if it looks like the waiter knows what he's(she's) doing then they will know what really tastes good better than you would. Sometimes they'll just push the special(bad sign) but as a waiter myself, the occasional table who did this . . .I always really went extra out of my way to make sure they had a good experience and would also take a certain added measure of personal responsability for wether they enjoyed the food or not.

Stangely, I think there is a paralel in good gong fu instruiction as well. When looking for a good teacher, I never ask them to please teach me this or that. I only ask for "good gong fu" and assume that they will know better than me what they have to offer me that is the best quality.

No_Know
06-09-2004, 07:31 AM
A waiter would be a good resource. They are not Just guessing so it's potluck that the meal they recommend is good. They experienced it from at least hearsay. And the cook/chef prepares meals or meal items consistantly--each has a recipe, guides which if followed get the food the same each time.

If the cook typically burns somethhing intentionally to get what they consider the right effect, but tastes unpreferred to many who try it. That item would not likely be recommended willingly as good food.

The Kung-Fu instructor has a recipe and determines your palette. Then proceeds to fill your cup, in a course dinner one course building upon the other.

In both cases the recipe came from Somewhere. A grasp of from where the meal came--it's background might help one appreciate the meal more. It can taste good to great without that awareness. But spending time with someone you Know (their hurts, loves, fears, joys...) even more enhances the experience.

Gangsterfist
06-09-2004, 02:02 PM
Is it really chinese?

Hey, if its not made in china, its probably made in malaysia.

GeneChing
07-18-2017, 12:11 PM
This seems as good a place as any to post this WSJ article.


Why Anyone Can Be Chinese (https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-anyone-be-chinese-1500045078?mod=e2fb)
A scholar who’s lived in China for more than two decades argues that Chinese identity should be cultural, not racial

https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UG158_CHINES_J_20170712105210.jpg
Daniel Bell, center, with a group of students earlier this month. PHOTO: WANG PEI

By Daniel A. Bell
July 14, 2017 11:11 a.m. ET

Who is Chinese? The answer may seem simple at first: a person who looks Chinese.

But imagine a young woman born and brought up in the U.S. Her grandmother is from China, and she happens to have inherited many of her grandmother’s physical traits. She doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture, and she thinks of herself as a proud American. When she is called Chinese, she forcefully rejects the label.

Or consider my own case. Canadian by birth, with Caucasian physical features, I have lived and worked in China for more than two decades, speak the Chinese language, identify with Chinese culture and am now a permanent resident of China. But almost no one considers me Chinese.

Both of these instances point to the difficulty with a view that is deeply ingrained in contemporary China and at least implicitly endorsed elsewhere: That to be Chinese is to belong to a race.

I feel welcomed and loved in China. My wife is Chinese, and I’ve done my best to integrate since arriving in 2004. But I can’t fully succeed. My Chinese friends sometimes call me a “Chinese son-in-law.” It’s meant as a compliment, but the implication in Chinese is that I’m not fully Chinese.

The obstacles are not legal. It is possible to gain citizenship by marrying a Chinese person, but in practice few do. According to the 2010 census, the country’s population of 1.39 billion citizens includes just 1,448 naturalized Chinese. China does not allow dual citizenship, which makes the decision more difficult, but in principle, race is not a barrier to becoming a Chinese citizen.

Nor is language the main obstacle to popular acceptance. My Chinese is far from perfect, but I can give academic talks in Chinese, and I can surprise taxi drivers when I call for a ride and they arrive expecting to see a Chinese customer. Millions of poorly educated Chinese citizens speak hardly any Mandarin, and yet nobody questions their Chineseness.

It certainly isn’t any lack of commitment on my part to Chinese culture. I’ve been working on Confucian philosophy for many years, and it inspires the way I lead my life. I’m told over and over that my commitment to Chinese culture is more “Chinese” than that of many Chinese people. At conferences in China, I often find myself the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing.

The real obstacle to popular acceptance is the assumption that Chineseness is a racial category. Stereotypes against outsiders are common in any culture, and China is no exception. Pejorative statements about non-Han Chinese can be found in ancient texts, and there have been tragic outbursts of racism in Chinese history. The Jie people, who were probably of Central Asian stock, established the Later Zhao dynasty but were massacred shortly thereafter, around A.D. 350. The killings were said to be based on their Caucasian looks, and many bearded people were killed just because they were too Jie-looking.

But there is a more inspiring current in Chinese history as well. As the historian Yuri Pines of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem has noted, the dominant elite culture in ancient China emphasized cultural belonging, not race or ethnicity, as the most important trait for citizenship. Chinese people were those who adhered to the common ritual norms of the Zhou dynasty (1046-256 B.C.). One could learn to be Chinese.

During much of its history, particularly the eras of prosperity and glory, China was an open society that welcomed foreigners. The Tang dynasty (A.D. 618-907) is a classic example. The capital Chang’an was a multicultural urban center with nearly a million residents and drew ambitious migrants from around the world. Its greatest generals were Turks, Koreans and Sogdians (an ancient Iranian civilization). Arab scholars could participate in the imperial examinations. Li Bai, its most famous poet, was perhaps of Central Asian stock.

But the open attitude of the Tang dynasty eventually gave way. After the shocking rebellion of An Lushan in the 8th century and the sacking of the capital by Uighurs and Tibetans, Chinese attitudes toward outsiders took a markedly negative turn.

This is a recurrent pattern. When China is powerful and secure, foreigners are welcome and considered employable, including at the highest levels of government. When China is weak, foreigners are often viewed with suspicion and even hatred. The most famous modern case is the Boxer Rebellion of 1899-1901, which sought to violently expel the Western and Christian presence in China.

Indeed, China’s most insecure period was the “century of humiliation” from the 1840s to the 1940s. Chinese elites came to realize that not only was China not the center of the world, it was a weak country unable to stand up for itself. China lost wars to Western countries and Japan, and its territory was carved up by foreign powers.

It was in the wake of these events that a race-based conception of Chinese identity took hold. Leading reformers of the day, such as the scholar and political thinker Kang Youwei, traveled the world and came to the pessimistic conclusion that different races were engaged in a deadly struggle for survival. They saw Chinese identity as the legitimate racial basis for a nation-state that could take its place against other similarly constituted nations.

That legacy still shapes attitudes today. But China has rebuilt a strong and powerful state, with less to fear from foreign bullying, and it has become a key player in our vast, cosmopolitan world economy. To my mind, China has reached a point in its history when it can return to a more generous conception of identity and embrace those who meet the cultural criteria of Chineseness.

There are also pragmatic grounds for such a shift. Yan Xuetong, a leading theorist of international relations at Tsinghua University, argues that China should employ more foreigners as public officials and put them on the road to citizenship. Once China passes a necessary threshold of hard power, he says, China should compete for human talent rather than for economic or military superiority.

A meritocratic immigration policy open to all, regardless of ethnic or racial background, would also serve China’s economic interests. The now-discarded one-child policy has created a demographic bulge, with the elderly constituting an ever-growing proportion of the population. The country would greatly benefit from the contributions of talented young migrants from around the world.

President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the “China dream.” My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.

— Dr. Bell is dean of the school of political science and public administration at Shandong University and a professor at Tsinghua University. His most recent book is “The China Model.”

Jimbo
07-18-2017, 03:21 PM
If he's really as happy there in China as he says he is, why not just be happy and leave it at that? Why is it so important for him that people think he's Chinese? Why not accept himself for who and what he is?

It's kinda funny; in Canada, he probably never thought that probably most white Americans (and probably Canadians) think of Asian-Americans as 'foreign', even if their families are thoroughly integrated and have been here for more than 120 to 150 years. I'm sure back then it never even crossed his mind. Yet he expects everyone in China to change their perception of him and accept him as a Chinese right now.

There are also Westerners in Japan who act more Japanese than Japanese. I believe that Donn Draeger was considered as an American samurai in Japan. IDK if that was just an honorary title or not. But there are many who always want to dress in traditional garb and act like Japanese did 100 years ago, including the old mannerisms. Some native English speakers start trying to speak it with a 'Japanese accent', lol. Maybe it's for a genuine love of the culture, but in some cases it's just trying too hard to be something they're not.

I'm Japanese-American, but I know I will NEVER be a native Japanese, nor would I ever be viewed as one in Japan, even if I spent years living there trying to assimilate and acting more 'Japanese' than them. Just like the Japanese-Brazilians are not treated as 'real' Japanese in Japan. Just be happy and accept who you are.

GeneChing
07-24-2017, 08:38 AM
Here's more:

07/21/2017 05:36 pm ET | Updated 2 days ago
A White Person Wrote ‘Why Anyone Can Be Chinese,’ And It’s A Checklist In Privilege (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daniel-bell-why-anyone-can-be-chinese_us_596d299be4b0b95f893d7634)
“My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese,” a white man writes in an op-ed.
By Kimberly Yam

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/597248bb15000021008b2fc4.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale
TEKINTURKDOGAN VIA GETTY IMAGES
A white scholar’s recent op-ed suggests he might need some lessons on his own privilege.

Daniel Bell, a white dean at China’s Shandong University, recently penned a piece in the Wall Street Journal entitled “Why Anyone Can Be Chinese.” In it, he laments how he’s not considered Chinese despite his self-proclaimed dedication to the culture.

China, he argues, should look at identity as cultural rather than racial, concluding the piece with his ultimate hope:

“President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the ‘China dream,’” Bell writes. “My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.”

Bell claims to have respect for the Chinese. But his piece shows that he’s not looking at identity through the lens of the Chinese, John Kuo Wei Tchen, associate professor and director of Asian/Pacific/American Institute, NYU, told HuffPost.

Bell begins his piece, making comparisons between himself and a Chinese-American who “doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture,” and “forcefully rejects” the label “Chinese.”

But the connections Bell makes are apples to oranges. Bell, a white man from Canada, ignores the real, human experiences that Chinese people live through, Tchen noted.

Bell isn’t someone whose family has been brought up in China through generations, communicating through insider references. His ancestors haven’t lived through events like the Opium Wars or the Cultural Revolution that have shaped the population’s outlook. Bell is a white man whose roots and values come from elsewhere.

There’s another issue at hand with Bell’s comparison. Ideas of belonging and identity are tied to political environment, Tchen says. These concepts are forged out of history and traditions, constructed over time by cultural and political forces. A western view of these ideas will be different from, say, a Chinese one. Bell doesn’t seem to acknowledge that, though.

“Notions of citizenship and belonging come out of particular political cultures. Just because that’s what he believes in, he wants to apply that to China which doesn’t really make any sense,” Tchen said. “It can’t just be willy-nilly applied to any other place.”

Bell continues his argument, listing several traits of his that he believes somehow underscore his “Chineseness.” Though he brings up possible barriers to acceptance like citizenship, commitment to culture, and lack of language skills, he insists those aren’t problems for him. He points out how he’s often “the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing” at conferences. And earlier in the piece he mentions his marriage to a Chinese woman as if those details help assert Chineseness.

In another line, he even puts down native Chinese people and pretentiously writes, “millions of poorly educated Chinese citizens speak hardly any Mandarin, and yet nobody questions their Chineseness.”

However, identity isn’t so simple as checking traits off a list, Tchen said. Bell’s possession of such qualities does not make him more “eligible” to be Chinese.

To be Chinese is not a mere checklist, just like being black or from any other culture isn’t about hitting a set number of achievements.

“If he were to become an expert on Toni Morrison, if he were to then master African-American cuisine, if he had married an African-American woman, would he feel he can claim being African-American or black?” Tchen questioned.

At one point, Bell attempts to point out the flaws in seeing Chineseness as racial and describes the country’s tumultuous relationship with foreigners.

“When China is powerful and secure, foreigners are welcome and considered employable, including at the highest levels of government,” he wrote in the op-ed. “When China is weak, foreigners are often viewed with suspicion and even hatred.”

Tchen told HuffPost that he agrees that ideally, we “need to reject the very notion of ‘race’ and hence racial belonging.” These ideas don’t translate across historical and cultural differences, he says. But again, being part of a culture is dependent on historical context. Identity goes further than today’s politics and culture.

At the end of the day, Bell’s piece begs the question posed by Tchen.

“Are there not deeper shared values that are more important to explore than a European Canadian wanting to be accepted as ‘Chinese?’”