Ronald Reagan - Californian Champion!

[PaulH]

Folks,

It would be a shame to let a great Californian President to pass away unnoticed on this Californian forum. Just want to say thank you for his presidential leadership in those wonderful years! =)

P.S. Here are some of his great speeches in the world annals of history!

http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/

"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness. - Rendezvous with Destiny October 27, 1964"

[count]

Rest in Peace. His death touches everyone, Republican and Democrat alike. Particularly touches me since I live a stones throw from his Library and the traffic is a mess around here and the police are everywhere. Guess it's a small price to pay, I'm sure he's in a better place.

[yu shan]

Thanks PaulH for this thread, most here are probably too young to remember. President Reagan was an honest man and truly cared. He made the World a better place, I will never forget this man.

[Mr Punch]

There was good and bad about his administration just like any other, and good and bad about him like anyone else. RIP, but lets not break out the rose-tinted specs cos he has gone. I hate that; it's dishonest and disrespectful to anyone's memory. And let's not talk like we knew him... sure he affected me deeply throughout my formulative years, but I never met the guy, I just saw the same docs and news as anyone else.
Originally posted by count
...I'm sure he's in a better place. I thought he died, I didn't know he'd gone to the UK! :D

[Tit Sa]

Reagan was a jerk. Him and his "trickle down economics" theory! I can't believe people still thinks he was something special.

[cerebus]

Well, I'd take him over Bush #2 any day. Hell, even with alzheimers he probably coulda done better than "Shrub".

[count]

Originally posted by Mat
There was good and bad about his administration just like any other, and good and bad about him like anyone else. RIP, but lets not break out the rose-tinted specs cos he has gone. I hate that; it's dishonest and disrespectful to anyone's memory. And let's not talk like we knew him... sure he affected me deeply throughout my formulative years, but I never met the guy, I just saw the same docs and news as anyone else. I thought he died, I didn't know he'd gone to the UK! :D
I agree with what you say but since you quote me I should clarify, if you ever had a relative or loved one with Altzheimers you wouldn't question it. And while were taking of those rose-tinted glasses, :cool: I forgot there are only a few members who are old enough to remember the 80's, let alone the 70's, 60's and 50's. I'm no "Reagan-ite" but through-out his administration, the US was a good place to live and come from. The whole world improved because of some of his efforts and intentions. I dis-agreed with most of his policies, but it certainly laid the foundation for the success we, in the United States, enjoyed through-out the 90's under Clinton. And in 3 and a half short years, one misguided, bible toting, cowboy wanna-bee, erased it all. And God help us if people can't see the potential of another term.

[David Jamieson]

uh, Reagan was politically , well, not exactly what I would call a "great" president. But that's neither here nor there.

I don't understand what's with all the weepy patriotic drivel getting exported these days from the states.

Well? What about it American cousins? What's up with that?
lol

[Internal Boxer]

When I see the likes of Reagan and Bush JNR it becomes pretty obvious that these weak minds are not the ones in control of the country, just a figure head.


The UK a better place to live than the states??? WTF its a real dump here mate with crap weather!!

[Nick Forrer]

Re: Reagan

I refer you to

Iran Contra

and the testimony of Oliver North

oh and the star wars program (money well spent I'm sure):eek:

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Internal Boxer
The UK a better place to live than the states??? WTF its a real dump here mate with crap weather!!

Speak for yourself. In the City in London (where I work) The weather is beautiful at the moment and so are the women.

Still as the saying goes it is grim up north;)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer
oh and the star wars program (money well spent I'm sure):eek: The Star Wars program was never meant to be developed. By most accounts, it was a publicity stunt to get the Soviet Union to try to match us $ for $ in an arms race, which bankrupted them.

But yeah, Iran Contra is huge black eye on American political history, 100 times worse than Clinton's blowjob, but Reagan came out smelling like a rose.

[GLW]

Strange thing is..if the media is SO liberal, how come Reagan was not crucified for Iran contra, the indications of dealing with Iran BEFORE he was elected, the issue with the debate notebooks - Carter's just found its way into Reagan's staff hands, the climbing deficit, the record number of his personal staff that were indicted (not been equaled before or since), yada yada yada.....

Yet Clinton was for a BJ....

The big one for Clinton was the Chinese affair...and that one dropped...why...I would be willing to bet there were folks on BOTH sides of the congressional aisle that were wetting their beaks at that trough....

[MasterKiller]

For the same reason the media let Bush slide on the "fake news" commercial he funded with Medicare $ that was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court.

I haven't seen one news program talk about this.

[count]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
For the same reason the media let Bush slide on the "fake news" commercial he funded with Medicare $ that was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court.

I haven't seen one news program talk about this.
The media in this country is a weak, tool controled by their interests in monopolizing the airways and real estate combined with Bush's FCC policies. Just be thankful they havn't been able to control the internet...yet. If Bush is re-elected he won't have to worry about the Supreme Court either.

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
For the same reason the media let Bush slide on the "fake news" commercial he funded with Medicare $ that was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court.

I haven't seen one news program talk about this.


Strangely enough it was all over the Daily Show...
For a show that's supposed to be a spoof on news programs, there sure is a lot of info on there.
I swear they've had more political figures as guests on that show than Hardball, Crossfire, and O'Reilly combined for the last year.

[scotty1]

Still as the saying goes it is grim up north.

LOL! :D

[Christopher M]

Yeah, no rosy-shades for Reagan! They're all needed to cover the eyes of Clinton supporters.

What happened to this machiavellian American scheme during the two terms of Clinton presidency? The Great Satan went on sabbatical because one of "our guys" was in power?

During the thirty-one years of the presidencies of Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush Sr, the American military was deployed in 10 operational events. During the eight years of the Clinton administration, the American military was deployed in 26 operational events.

What was your military doing with all this activity?

Presumably you don't know because your media didn't tell you. While considering this, let's remember that it was Clinton who established and first used the pre-emptive strike protocol to counter terrorism, and Clinton who developed the ballistic missile defense plan.

An important question to ask yourself is whether you oppose or support things like this in principle, or if you only oppose "the other side," whatever it is they happen to do.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by BMore Banga
Strangely enough it was all over the Daily Show...
For a show that's supposed to be a spoof on news programs, there sure is a lot of info on there.
I swear they've had more political figures as guests on that show than Hardball, Crossfire, and O'Reilly combined for the last year. No kidding. I love the Daily Show.

[count]

Originally posted by Christopher M
Yeah, no rosy-shades for Reagan! They're all needed to cover the eyes of Clinton supporters.

What happened to this machiavellian American scheme during the two terms of Clinton presidency? The Great Satan went on sabbatical because one of "our guys" was in power?

During the thirty-one years of the presidencies of Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush Sr, the American military was deployed in 10 operational events. During the eight years of the Clinton administration, the American military was deployed in 26 operational events.

What was your military doing with all this activity?

Presumably you don't know because your media didn't tell you. While considering this, let's remember that it was Clinton who established and first used the pre-emptive strike protocol to counter terrorism, and Clinton who developed the ballistic missile defense plan.

An important question to ask yourself is whether you oppose or support things like this in principle, or if you only oppose "the other side," whatever it is they happen to do.
And yet there was still a 700 billion dollar surplus and jobs, jobs, jobs. A balanced Supreme court and let's count, how many war deaths? Just FYI, I wasn't a Slick Willy supporter either. Haven't voted for a Democrat since McGovern. Who did he run against again? :p

[CaptinPickAxe]

Reagan has my vote in 2004

[Christopher M]

Count - I think i) the economic boom of the 90s was primarily driven by the high tech boom, and ii) the high tech boom was not a product of the Clinton administration.

I'll counter your "I wasn't a Slick Willy supporter" with "I'm not a Bush Jr supporter." Bush Jr's faults don't erase Clinton's faults. There's enough to go around.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Clinton smokes pot....






























but doesn't inhale:rolleyes:

[count]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Clinton smokes pot....

but doesn't inhale:rolleyes:
LOL! that one sure cost my vote.








Bush snorts! :eek:

[CaptinPickAxe]

better a laid back pothead than a "invincible" cokehead...

Besides, Bush didn't inhale:p

[count]

Originally posted by Christopher M
Count - I think i) the economic boom of the 90s was primarily driven by the high tech boom, and ii) the high tech boom was not a product of the Clinton administration.

I'll counter your "I wasn't a Slick Willy supporter" with "I'm not a Bush Jr supporter." Bush Jr's faults don't erase Clinton's faults. There's enough to go around.

That's true, but it doesn't account for a fraction of a 700 billion dollar surplus.

[CaptinPickAxe]

...or maybe he snorted Ajax. That would explain his slight retardation.

[yutyeesam]

I do think tho, that the Clinton presidency supported and interacted well with the high tech boom that you speak of. They knew how to make a good thing work for them and the country. They harnessed the energy right, and there was better distribution of wealth.

Bush Jr had a good thing working for him right after 9/11, but managed to drive it into a million piles of scattered cow chips. The distribution of wealth is laughable, the divide between the haves and have nots is greater than ever.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by count
That's true, but it doesn't account for a fraction of a 700 billion dollar surplus.

Clinton's "surplus" was based on loans from the future. This is a fairly standard political trick. You announce progressive cuts in future budgets and claim the money now. You get the good fame and the next administration has to worry about supplying the cash. Basically every administration in history has done some version of this; the other side of the coin is that it's standard to claim, when coming into power, that the old administration lied about the books and you don't have the money for all those campaign promises you made.

[count]

You make a good point Chris. Still, better than imposing trillion dollar deficits for several generations to come and actually claiming credit for creating a few low income/no benefit, temp. jobs as a sign the policy is working.

Let's be real. Congress passes the laws, the Pentagon controls the security. The President is a figure head who unfortunately is the one person who can send candidates for the Supreme court for comfirmation. Why does anyone give credit or blame to Bush for anything to do with the economy or national security? But being the figure head, he does have some effect on the credibility of all of us around the world. Hard to see where our credibility lies now. Is it in Saudi Arabia, Congo, Iraq, or is it the Halliburton's and Lilly's?

Sorry for the political rant. No disrespect to the intention of this thread, and again to Ronald Reagan (RIP).

[PaulH]

Thank you, Count. I was there at your hometown at 3:40 A.M. last night to pay my final respect with other Americans. It was a long drive. Upon arriving there an officer informed my friend and I that we will have to wait for another 6 hours in line to get to the Library, and then 1 more hour to see the closed coffin. We had to work the next day so we departed sadly from our tired but smiling crowd of countrymen. As a boat refugee from South East Asia, I am touched by the experience.

"Can we doubt that only a Divine Providence placed this land, this island of freedom, here as a refuge for all those people in the world who yearn to breathe freely: Jews and Christians enduring persecution behind the Iron Curtain, the boat people of Southeast Asia, of Cuba and Haiti, the victims of drought and famine in Africa, the freedom fighters of Afghanistan and our own countrymen held in savage captivity.- RR"

[Tit Sa]

Reagan-

Along with Iran-contra, lets not forget the millions if not billions of dollars of OUR, money lost during the Savings and Loan scandals because of "Reaganomics" and deregulation.

How about raising collection age for Social Security, that is OUR money, well actually my parents money.

And putting a tax on unemployment! as income?

That's trickle down economics for ya!

The best thing he did for this country was become grass fertilizer.

[PaulH]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/8/102324.shtml

Respecting your freedom of expression, I only wish to let the people who were there to have their says also in the matter.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Tit sa - your grasp of history is pretty weak.

I'll give you the play by play of just why your incredibally incorrect, and possibly a bufoon later.

Now go get David Ross some coffee...

And remember it was a Deomocratic House and Senate that was so corrupt it was SWEPT out of office by the Republicans. Those were the folks creating many of the bills you complain about. On others, you are glossing over key information.

Reagan was a perfect man, but in may ways he was a great man.

[Tit Sa]

Monkey-

It seems like you are more up David Ross's a$$ than you should be. I'll leave the svcking to you.

[Kristoffer]

His merit list:

*mass murder in Latin America
*supported Saddam Hussein
*ignored the American aids catastrophy

Nobody wants to talk down an old sick mans reputation. He was a man just like us and I hope he rests in peace. But, to so blindingly ignore your own history is frightening.

He saw the world in black and white and in his hard fight against communism he used all means possibly. He supported regimes that did horrible crimes against human rights. Hundreds of thousands had to die because of Reagans actions.

- He financed death squads in Guatemala and El Salvador. The American goverment at the time sold weapons to Iran so that the support to the Rightish guerilla Contras in Nicaragua wouldn't be noticed.

- Reagan was the root of the modern problem with Saddam and the WMD's. Saddam secretly received great support in the Iraq/Iran war. No protests were heard back then when Saddam used chemical weapons.

-While the rest of the world tried to put an end to the aphartheid regime in South Africa, Reagan opposed economical sanctions. South Africa was viewed as an important wheel in the struggle against communism. It didn't matter that the black africans were opressed.

-With the same argument, Reagan pumped money to the muslim guerilla in Afghanistan, wich was occupied by Sovietunion. One of the guerilla men was Usama bin Ladin. From this guerilla, the talibans was founded.

-Reagan did nothing to stop the aids catastrophy in USA. First time he even mentioned it was in a speech right before he left the white house. Meanwhile, 20 000 americans died in the deciese. The ****sexual people had themself to blame.


Reagan supporters claims he was the cause of the fall of the Soviet Union. A truth with modification. Reagan was put in charge at a time wich the Soviet union already was weakend and when Gorbatjov had started to 'open up'.
The Berlin walls had fallen anyway. Reagan may have hurried it up though. He was a man that was very liked, and he had nice suits and a white smile. But he was not the angel of peace he is descibed as today.
I took the above text from a newspaper, it focuses mostly on the negative side of Ronald Reagans politics, but I feel it's a good counter to all the naive heroe praising going on right now.

[PaulH]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2004/jun/09/060904212.html

This is the Reagan I know and remember. With all due respects, It would be a decent thing to discuss his legacy in details after the funeral. Even Kerry said nothing when he paid respect to Ronald Reagan a few days ago.

Regards,
PH

[The Willow Sword]

lets honor his passing.

Lets just recap what we are honoring here for a moment.

we are honoring a man who royally fuked the poor in the a$$
(crime and drug use and dealing skyrocketed during his administration, and he totally ignored the aids epidemic back then,,oh yeah aids is a f@g disease right:rolleyes:)

Lets also honor the fact that he and his administration finacned a few military coups in other countries (grenada/ south america) oh and lets not forget Iran /contra. trading arms with iran for hostages, (what a great plan:rolleyes:

lets honor your average typical republican who cut taxes for the top 3% wealthy and stuck it to the middle income families.

oh yeah and i almost forgot about SDI. boy that would have cost us a bundle wouldnt it have? i mean the aliens were coming to take us over werent they?:rolleyes: or was it the russians?

rest in peace Dutch,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and peace to all,,,,TWS.

[Christopher M]

Hmmm... I support deregulation (the state cannot be trusted, mmkay?) and tax cuts (especially corporate tax cuts, since they should be 0%; and citizen tax cuts to the upper bracket, since every citizen should be taxed in equal proportion and they're currently not). I avidly support the opposition to communism (the greatest killer man has ever conceived of).

Maybe this Reagan guy ain't so bad?

If anything, he should have done more of all this, not less.

[kungfu cowboy]

I heard it is actually the puppet from the Genesis Land of Confusion video in the casket in case of shenanigans.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Kristoffer
Reagans merit list:

*mass murder in Latin America
*supported Saddam Hussein
*ignored the American aids catastrophy




Originally posted by Christopher M

Maybe this Reagan guy ain't so bad?

If anything, he should have done more of all this, not less.


:confused: :confused: :mad:

[MasterKiller]

http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/reagan.html

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer
:confused: :confused: :mad:

It seems you accidentally got Kristoffer's and my posts all intermixed. We have a similar name, I guess!

[Kristoffer]

My way of spelling it, is superior :D

[Gangsterfist]

The Birch society has had lots of political influence in the US over the years. Before Reagan was Governer of CA, he was an actor. He was hired by the Birch Society as a public speaker to go out and help their cause. Their cause was to cut down the redwood trees in CA. These trees are huge, and ancient, and should be protected. One quote from Reagans speech was, "Come on now, if you have seen one tree, you've seen them all."

Thanks to the birch society and reagan a lot of those trees were cut down. The Birch Society, saw this as a new profound way to influence people in politics, hire actors. They later pushed Reagan to run for Governer, and helped fund his campaign.

They pushed him and helped him all the way to the white house. They made lots of money with Reagan's influence and power of position. They also did lots of bad things. Go research it for yourself if you do not believe me.

I never met the man, but he was definately a puppet, and not a great president. He made the rich richer, and the middle class and poor pay for it. Got us in a huge amount of debt which is now impacting us.

[PaulH]

GF,

Just for you, bro! =)

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/hayward200406051826.asp

[Tit Sa]

It's a shame his alzhemier stricken head didn't know he was about to become food for the worms.

[CD Lee]

Whazzamatter Tit Sa? Nobody taking your little bait? Thats like your third try...What a tit.

[eurtz]

some of you won't like this, some of you will (http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=338&row=0)

I liked this one better. (http://subvertise.org/img_big/143.gif)

maybe his other dinosaur pals will take his lead and just retire . . .

[Tit Sa]

CD-

You took it...lol....what a CDL, C@ck D!ldo L0ver.

eurtz-

Something was always funny about the way we invaded Grenada.
I mean, out of the blue, a little BS island not even the size of RI is a threat to the US and a bunch of med. students who were partying during the raid!

I suspected in my own heart that, it was a PR campaign to get media/national attention off the bombing of our Marines. I didn't think other people thought this also.

[MonkeySlap Too]

No, it was at the request of the island nations around it who feared Cuban invasions in thier own land. Oh, yeah the Cubans were construction workers right? Well as my old friend Ed who was there said "Then they were firing automatic shovels."

When Granada was liberated from the pathetic communist regime, it was discovered that a.) the idiot reds ran the place into the ground, and b.) the Nicaraugans taught them to keep two sets of books so they could lie to the IMF.

People forget life in pre-Reagan America ...27% inflation, mass unemployment, a gutted military who couldn't even fly into a desert because they didn't have the budget, and a president who was so arrogant he refused help from countries who could get the job done. Lets not forget the ever expanding evil empire - spreading into central and south America and Central Asia.

I've been to the old Warsaw block - you can't tell me a government built on lies isn't evil (and before you say 'our government lies too, go to your room, your !diot and a whiney child if you beleive there is any equivalancy. Ask the people who were there you uneducated fools) I don't know what is...and we had a president too weak to do anything and it emboldened them.

Let's not forget he had those criminal Sandanistas in Washington and hailed them as heroes! And he gave ways the Panama Canal...you know that strategic waterway now run by a company owned by the PRC Red Army?

Yeesh.

Sure the U.S. had relationships with unsavory dictators...relationships that pre-dated Reagan FYI...but those thugs were willing to stand up to the Soviets. I don't know about you, but when I'm in a bar fight against brutal thugs, I don't get to choosy about the guy who volunteers to stand by me. Looking back, yeah I don't like some of those pukes we had on our side...but with the massive revolutions being sponsored by the Soviets, perhaps it was the only strategic option we had to save those people from communist dictatorship.

I know Tit Sa, your thinking Communism only killed 100,000 people, lets give it another try...


FWIW - RR was only 1 player in the formula that ended the USSR. A big one in fact...SDI was the big key. It didn't matter if we actually did it or not, just the threat put the USSR spinning because they knew they were broke and couldn't match the cost. The Pope's actions in Poland, and the German bankers who traded an open border with Austria for loans to Hungary was the final factor. Oh, that and Gorbachev...a guy dumb enough to actually beleive people would choose a totalitarian life and the indescriminate slaughter of innocents.

Reagan wasn't perfect, and there are things I wished he did, but he saved this country from more problems than I can count.

But hey, John Kerry might win...then we can enjoy those Jimmy Carter years of malaise all over again! Yay!

[MonkeySlap Too]

Please watch the whole thing. I'm particularly fond of the family poverty rate statistic:

http://members.cox.net/macallan_the/GW/GWBush1_Start.htm

[Tit Sa]

Long live the Carter Years!

Yes, I love the way Carter and the liberals ran the US, I love-
-the US taking a foreign policy position as though it was a
castrated dog.
-US with double digit inflation
-the way we were humiliated by a two bit sh!t country like Iran.
-the way we left 50? of our own citizens in captivity
-Supreme Court Justices who rather worry about criminals rights
than the punishment they deserve
-the way we almost gave Florida away to the nuts and criminals
from Castro's backyard
-When they increase spending on welfare
-they raise taxes on the middle income

Of course I rather have Reagan/Bush conservatives, I love-
-The way we bomb the crap out of countries that has nothing to
do with terrorists attacking us
-they way we send our troops in another country to enrich the
wealthy 1% of our population
-the way they practice the art of decieving the American people
-Giving my rights/womens rights of choice up
-the way they lower taxes on the weathy and hope that one day
they would be generous enough to pass it on to the little
people
-our children being forced to pray in school
-our country going into billions in debt

On second thought...hmmm......I wonder....

[Christopher M]

Since we're all keen on Reagan quotes, here's some more side-busters:

"This idea that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power, is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of the election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

You and I are told we must choose between a left or a right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or a down. Up to man's age-old dream - the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order - or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, 'The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.'

The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling the people. and they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose...

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem: government is the problem.

It is my intention to curb the size and influence of the federal establishment and to demand recognition of the distinction between the powers granted to the federal government and those reserved to the states or to the people. All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states: the states creates the federal government...

Freedom is the recognition that no single person, no single authority of government has a monopoly on the truth, but that every individual life is infinitely precious."

I find you Americans very short-sighted, and here's why: you've missed no opportunity to loathe 'Reaganomics' yet you now quake and rant against the rule of the neoconservatives. You are lying in the beds you have made: cursing small government paves the road for big government. Let it not be said the American government is unresponsive to the American people: you asked to be rid of the libertarians and now they are gone. Look at what you are left with.

What those uninclined to history may not realize is that neoconservativism is a revolution of those calling themselves conservatives by those calling themselves socialists. It is a perverse slight of hand that has let totalitarianism credibly be called conservativism. The socialists remain as they always have: advocates of a large, interventionist government. What has changed is that this is now what so-called conservatives offer as well.

Reagan's "there is no such thing as left or right" has taken on a new meaning now: "we are all neoconservatives now." Yes, that includes the left. You guys tossed out your only real choice, and now you have a future of picking between increasingly powerful and similar dictators. This would be nothing but justice for your errors except that the rest of us are paying the price too.

If there is any way out of the spiral towards American totalitarianism, and I'm not sure that there is, it depends on the American public again recognizing what should be a rather simple truth: the alternative to small government is big government. When you discard the former, you get the latter.