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whitelotusfist
06-08-2004, 09:57 AM
Hi there, just read an article about tai chi in which it mentioned that tai chi was one of several subsytems a kung fu style called mo gik mon. Has anyone heard of this and does anyone know a translation.
The link is http://www.iconmag.co.uk/taichi.htm if anyones interested.
I am not a Tai Chi practitioner and am just asking out of interest.
Cheers
WLF

Fu-Pow
06-08-2004, 10:32 AM
I just gonna venture a guess but it sounds Cantonese

Mo Gik=Wu Ji in Mandarin.
Daai Gik=Tai Ji in Mandarin.

Mon could be "gate" or "scholar" or someting else. There's just too many ****phones in Chinese. Plus we can't do intonations on here.

As for Tai Ji Quan being a subset of another system I don't think this is the case.

The history of Tai Ji traces back to Chen Village but it probably has roots that go back ****her than that to Shaolin Temple and Wu Dang mountain.

CFT
06-09-2004, 04:35 AM
Mo Gik=Wu Ji in Mandarin.
Taai Gik=Tai Ji in Mandarin.Fu-Pow, you're right.

Tai Ji can be translated as the Grand Ultimate, and implies that there is a limit (bound by Yin-Yang, I think).

Whereas Wu Ji means "without limits".

Goodness knows what this means in practice though.

kungfu cowboy
06-09-2004, 06:49 AM
I think it translates into BS=try to make$$$.

Fu-Pow
06-09-2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by CFT
Fu-Pow, you're right.

Tai Ji can be translated as the Grand Ultimate, and implies that there is a limit (bound by Yin-Yang, I think).

Whereas Wu Ji means "without limits".

Goodness knows what this means in practice though.

In Taoist terms

Wu Ji translates to literally "No Extreme" but also refers to No Duality, No Polarity, Void, Emptiness, Without Form, Without Categorization, Neutral, etc.

Tai Ji translates as "Big Extreme" but also as Yin and Yang, Big Polarity, Duality, etc.

(I think the translation Grand Ultimate should be avoided because it makes it sound like it is the "Ultimate" or best form of boxing. When what they really mean by Ultimate is the Great Pole that the Polarity of Yin and Yang cycle around ie Wu Ji or stillness in motion. )

Psychologically speaking if we think of Wu Ji as a mental state, it is when thinking has stopped, nothing is categorized because there is no thought to categorize it, time appears to not exist, there is no time, no thought, no extreme, no "self" and no "other".

In Taoist thinking Wu Ji precedes Tai Ji or "Duality". But Wu Ji also incorporates Tai Ji so that even when there appears to be Duality there is Non-Duality because the forces of Yin and Yang balance each other out.

So when we talk about the human bodiy the Wu Ji stance is when all the Dualities (ie Tai Ji) of the body balance each other out to a net sum of Zero or Neutrality. Open and Close, Substantial and Insubstantial etc.

When we begin to move in the form and create more Tai Ji we must also have a net sum that equals up to Wu Ji. So then Forward balances Back, Open balances Close, Substantial balances Insubstantial, Up balances Down etc.

So when we do Tai Ji Quan we are really doing Wu Ji Quan also because the net effect of Tai Ji practice should always be Wu Ji practice.

Ya dig?
;)

joedoe
06-09-2004, 05:29 PM
There is a fairly rare art called Wu Ji. My late Grandmaster used to teach it.

CFT
06-11-2004, 03:50 AM
Great post Fu-Pow. You seem very knowledgeable.

I agree about the "grand ultimate" translation being misleading; someone else's term that has stuck in my head.

From your description of Wu Ji, the goal would be to reach the stage where "a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick" ... to paraphrase Bruce Lee and countless other posters.

Repulsive Monkey
06-15-2004, 08:09 AM
Wu Ji is NOT an art though!! It is a mental state. There are no moves in Wu Ji, it is something that should be maintained whilst doing moves.

CFT
06-15-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
Wu Ji is NOT an art though!! It is a mental state. There are no moves in Wu Ji, it is something that should be maintained whilst doing moves. It can be argued that it is both. If someone thinks they are teaching a style with wu ji as the primary goal/philosophy and call it "wu ji men" then that is what the "style" would be called.

joedoe
06-15-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
Wu Ji is NOT an art though!! It is a mental state. There are no moves in Wu Ji, it is something that should be maintained whilst doing moves.

Actually, there is an art called Wu Ji but it is extremely rare.

You are in England aren't you? If you are anywhere near London see if you can find Sifu Kim Han.