How could I build my own shaolin temple in the USA

[joehaz100]

Hey Gene this one is for you and anyone else that can help me I would like to make a shaolin temple in the USA it would probely be in califronia.I would like to have at least 10 shaolin monks come from china and live at my temple. Also I would like to be able to let people train at the temple for free and I would really like to be able all the monks in the US come and be able to teach if they want. WHo would I ask for pramission to be able to build the temple thanks bye

[richard sloan]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[norther practitioner]

Rich has taken a bond called correct and cashed it in.

OK, one, you'll need to buy a nice chunk of land and build a temple, or buy an existing building... I'm thinking in Cali, at a min. you are talking 400k to start right there. Then, you have to be able to get monks over here from China (and since I know you hang around doc's site, and assuming you actually read you should realize how hard that is). Then to call it Shaolin, you'll have to prob. donate a truck load more money to the Abbot. Then, you have to support all of these people, what does it take to house an inmate in Cali, prob. about 30-40k a year... figure on 30k/year for each person living there * say 20-30.....


so, good luck with the lotto buddy.

[joehaz100]

see I have a lawsuite aginst FORD for my moms death and IF i win i am going to give a lot to chirety and i would like to build my temple and be able to live my life at my temple with the monks.

[David Jamieson]

sorry to hear about your mom...

You are forming an image in your mind that when manifested into reality may be untrue and you may wind up disappointed.

Having said that, what you are proposing is a large undertaking and there is a great deal of relationship building involved over and above the purchase of land, the laying of the foundation,the building of the building, your own in depth study of buddhism and Shaolin, etc etc.

Don't kid yourself. It's a big task, so be prepared for all the letdowns that come with big tasks.

cheers

[joehaz100]

I am learning as much about buddhism as i can and about shaolin I was planing on makeing the temple in like 2-3years. Also if any one had any info on what you think should be in the temple,where the temple should be made in california, and whith monks do you people think i should invite to come to my temple?

[dwid]

If you're serious, I'd set your sights on building it in like 20 years or so. What's the rush. Go to shaolin. Do monastic study there and elsewhere. You're 16 years old. Live a little, or a lot, and then decide if this is still something you want.

[richard sloan]

living in a temple is no joke.

try it first.

you can't just "build" a temple...you have to have a very deep understanding of the philosophical tradition you are looking to support, and you need to find a spiritual master who also possesses that understanding, altars need to be positioned in certain configurations, halls need to be laid out a certain way, etc.

sorry to hear about your mom.

amitabha.

[mortal]

Just rent a big studio space on Broadway. lol

Just kidding Rich. That one was for you. :)

[richard sloan]

lol...

[GeneChing]

...I saw this thread last night and was going to reply, but then was called away. Afterwards, I had thought up this smarmy reply, something about repeating what joehaz100 originally said, but swapping shaolin monks for supermodels. I want to build a temple of supermodels. I would like to have at least 10 supermodels come from, I dunno, Australia, and live at my temple. Anyway, I didn't know about your mom and now I'm glad I know.

To be a Buddhist monk, you have to give up your family. You have to give up your possessions and attachments. Building a temple is a noble endevour, but what troubles me moreso than the $ sign that everyone else is telling you about, is that you kept calling it 'my temple' - there's a possessiveness implied that you need release. Now, my dear brother Dr. Russell didn't really build a 'temple', he built a school. They don't teach Buddhism there; they teach martial arts. My suggestion to you is to explore your buddhist studies at an established institution. If you win the settlement and want to donate it, donate it to a temple that is already established. If you are fixated on Shaolin, don't try to build your own temple, since that is a really difficult task, but find a temple that is already established that would be open to sponsoring a shaolin monk to come over.

[joehaz100]

hey Gene when I sasid my shaolin temple i ment the temple i was going to make not that it belongs to me and me alone it would be for any one who would like to come and learn shaolin kung fu ,buddhism,Qigong tai chi ,medationand stuff.see Gene the reason i would like to make a shaolin temple in California is because there is not one place on the west cost where there are shaoliin monks to teach real gong fuand chan buddhism.so i would really like to make a shaolin temple here if i can. Also where do you think I should put the temple in california? I would like to have it some where in in the woods like the redwoods but tell me where you think a good place for it??? thanks

[Brad]

If it's really going to be a Shaolin Temple and not your temple shouldn't you let Shaolin decide where it's going to be and all that? Why not just wait until the lawsuit is over then contact Shaolin and tell them you'd like to donate your money to the construction of a Shaolin Temple in California.

[GeneChing]

Temples aren't constructed before there is a following. Followers construct the temple. If you build a temple with no followers, you'll have an empty temple. Find the followers first. When you find out where they are, the location will be self evident, assuming it isn't there already. FWIW, there already are two Shaolin graudates teaching in the SF Bay Area (did you read my article Shaolin's Second Wave (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=436)? And there has been talk of a SF Shaolin Temple project for years - read my Shaolin Temple in San Francisco (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=500) piece, on stands now. I appreciate your desire to build this temple, but if you're serious, you'll do a little more research.

[joehaz100]

Ok i think i will just call the shaolin temple when the lawsuites done and tell them that i would like to pay for a shaolin temple to be made in california but first I need to know if who would join the temple .is that right Gene but what do you mean fallowers if i win the lawsuite and find out if i could have a branch shaolin temple in california would you help it out like put it in the magazine? So more people would know about it. see i would like it to be like the old shaolin temple where you could live there eat there and train there for free and i would like to be able to have people be able to become monks there and everything.

[Brad]

One other thing, have you ever been to Shaolin and/or met any of the monks? If you haven't, it would probably be a good idea to spend alot of time around the people you'd be donating your money to. BTW, about how much ca$h do you expect to get? The type of project you're sugesting could still be out of your price range. It'd be like building a little university and I don't think land in California is too cheap :P Oh, and take some of your money and get a good education before you do anything!

[joehaz100]

well i am planing on going to shaolin in september and well i would like to have the temple in california and most likely i should be able to aford it but i would like to find a master from shaolin who would come over and tech me kinda like how Doc and Gene have shi decheng i would like to find a master who would take me as a diceple.I would also like to live at the temple so i could train as much as i would like I probely would not be a monk or any thing like that but i would live my life acordenly.

[Losttrak]

Um... I am sorry but this sounds like when I was 6 years old and "wanted to become a fireman" when I grew up. Maybe its just me, but what I hear is someone who has bought too deeply into the propaganda and movie-hype and wants to associate himself with it. I see a lot of people bringing out the kid gloves and trying to give a wakeup call, but I don't think its getting through. Either this is a troll attempt, someone looking for attention, or someone who should not be making decisions with that amount of money. Back to work...

[Pk_StyLeZ]

i know how to do it
when you win your little lawsuit or wutever and receive all your money
send me a PM
so i can give you my mailing address
so u can send me all the money
and i will know what to do with the money
and u will have your shaolin temple in no time..=) =)

[joehaz100]

HA hahahahah hell no I am going to make this temple i do not care how you feel about it i feel that it is something i want to do and that is that.

[richard sloan]

well the last thing in the world I would want to do is be beholden to Yong Xin for any of this...

before you know it you'll have Steve DeMasco testing black belts in your Great Buddha hall.

[bungle]

JoeHaz
I suggest you make a list of all the things you'd like about having the temple. Look em over and even consider doing a list of the things u wouldn't like.

But look at this list. This is what you want. Could you get it elsewhere?

Now, maybe you don't wanna hear the negativity and you want to stay with your conviction but at least entertain alternative views. It's true that a lot of succesful people didn't take no for an answer even when facing impossible odds. However, you need to discriminate and really find out if your willing and able to succeed with this.

You need to see why your doing it. You need to look at the issues you'll face and discriminate. So you can see the issue clearly. You can see it for what it really is. Be honest when you do this list. don't hold back.

If you don't do this you know you are not being honest with yourself and your looking at only a fraction of the picture. Your walking like a blind man towards to misty dream but if you use your intelligence you can see what's what and make intelligent choices.

You might find our you don't even like martial arts as much as you think you do. You might figure out that it's your lifes sole purpose. But you won't know for sure unless you discriminate.

[CLFNole]

Just what Cali needs, another theme park. :D

[joehaz100]

well here go's my list for why i want to make a temple.

1. i want some where people can go and study shaolin kung fu and buddhism all in one
2. I would like to spread the darma and teach people about shaolin history and life style
3.So all the people out there like me who have had money probels like none of it who could never make it to china to train at the shaolin temple do not have.
4. see there alot of kids who dont have any mony to pay for martail arts class that is a nother reson my temple would be a temple a real shaolin temple not that fake shall of a temple that is in china now where you have to pay to go in the temple and pay more to train there with the monks the temple i built would be free of charg

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by joehaz100
well here go's my list for why i want to make a temple.

1. i want some where people can go and study shaolin kung fu and buddhism all in one

What if they're not interested in learning one or the other? Then what?


Originally posted by joehaz100

2. I would like to spread the darma and teach people about shaolin history and life style

How can you have a "shaolin" lifestyle in Cali?? A "Shaolin" lifestyle is unique to 13 km west of Dengfeng, Henan China.



Originally posted by joehaz100

3.So all the people out there like me who have had money probels like none of it who could never make it to china to train at the shaolin temple do not have.

Cool... but the whole thing is to go to China to train at the Shaolin Temple at Shaolin Village China... or nearby perhaps. But it's the journey that makes it worthwhile. The Kungfu I can get (nowadays) almost anywhere.


Originally posted by joehaz100

4. see there alot of kids who dont have any mony to pay for martail arts class that is a nother reson my temple would be a temple a real shaolin temple not that fake shall of a temple that is in china now where you have to pay to go in the temple and pay more to train there with the monks the temple i built would be free of charg

True... but yet you espouse bringing "shaolin" to America, yet call the temple in Henan "fake" in the same breath almost. :eek:

Have you actually sat down & figured out land costs, how to get tax exemptions for a NPC like that would have to be, admin costs, etc....

Why don't you do like so many others on this thread before have suggested... go to China & see Shaolin... go live in a Buddhist Temple locally there in California & see if you're cut out for it. I have a sneaking suspicion it may not be all that you've built it up to be...

[joehaz100]

1st. if they only want to learn one they can learn one

2nd. when I say shaolin lifestyle I mean the lifestyle of the temple if they chowce to live in the temple and become a monk

3rd. well I mean it would be like shaolin was back in the old days the traing and the buddhism the way of a shaolin monk and not all about make money.

first of all i ment it is fake conpared to it history like beck 500 years ago you could go and train at the temple for free and become a monk and learn about buddhism now if i went ther i would have to pay just to see it and have to pay just to learnshaolin kung fuand buddhism there. and i would not be able to become a monk there eather you can become a disciple of a monk but you cant become a monk like so many people want to do and that should not be i think if you want to become a monk and it is in you heart you should be able to.and i have stayed at a zen buddhist temple for only a few weeks but i know this is for me and any one eles who would like to. and i am planing on going and visiting shaolin and traing there for awaile to

[Brad]

Quick question: Is English your first language?

[joehaz100]

To Brad
yes english is my first language.

[bungle]

Sorry maybe i should of been more clear.

The list should be of how it will make you feel to have this temple. How will it benefit you? Your benefitting others perhaps but how will that make you feel. It's all about you.

I gurantee you there won't be a single thing on the list that you can't get elsewhere, more easily and that could improve your quality of life.

A temple is a massive undertaking. It takes a lot more than one man. You havn't the credibility to attract the people you would need to aid you in this project. Do you?

You cannot do this on your own. Money will not buy everything. You cannot buy peoples support. Especially those who you really need support from.

You need to build your credibility. You need to use this buddhism you so fondly love to deal with your desires. The larger the desire the greater the lacking in your mind.

I'm not trying to upset you or put you down. IT is just obvious to any observer. You are not seeing things clearly because of your desires for the things you think you'll get from this project.

Maybe ask yourself. How else can i get the feeling i'd get from this? How else could i help others?

Besides ALL This. You should always start small and build up. As everyone has frequently being pointing out. Visiting china or training somewhere would be the first small step that would lead to increasingly bigger steps if you wish.

That's how i see it anyway

[Royal Dragon]

Personally, I think the idea of building a Temple is very admerable. If your serious, I would hook up with one of the Shaolin Temple Monks living, and teaching in the USA, and spend at least 10 years in deep study under thier tutelage. In the mean time, let the Money sit in the bank. Once you have done this, you should have developed the proper foundation necassary to sucsessfully fulfill your projects requirements. 10 years of devoted study should get you the contacts, the understanding, and wisdom to make it work. Anything less is just a masterbation fantasy.

[Royal Dragon]

One more thing,
Since your going to be getting this massive wind fall, while you are starting out, why don't you sponser free all expenses paid trips to Shaolin Temple to study and train? You could begin with a small store front martial arts school, as a place to host a small group. Hire a good Kung Fu instructor to teach you and the group. Then once a month, or every other month, take the whole group to Shaolin Temple for advanced studies. This will get the ball rolling, and start you achieving your goals much faster.

Then, as time goes on, and you have a big enough group, build the big Temple. By then, you should have the contacts to get Shaolin to send monks to visit you on a semi regular basis. Once your at that point, it will only be a matter of time before one or two decide they would like to stay at your Temple.

I would like to be the first to sign up for your all expense paid trip to Shaolin Temple for training. We could start small, like a two week trip, and maybe later down the road, go for longer trips.

Oh, another thing, even if you get like $100 mill, your GOING to run out eventually. You should probably set your Temple up to be self supporting so it continues on after you run out of cash (Other wise you will wind up with a dead empty dream in the end). I'd charge some sort of enrollment fee. Not alot or anything, just enough to cover the operational expenses, like Food, utilities, insurance on the Temple, and maybe individual health insurance on your Monks in case they ever get sick, or have a training accident..............Oh, and don't forget up keep of the building and grounds etc...

Make sure you haev an attourny on staff too, just to keep you out of legal trouble so far as building codes, construction contracts and dealing with local ordinaces and such. That will be really important, or the powers that be might shut you down before you even start because you commit some minor legal infraction without even knowing it.

I'd hire a fully degreed Doctor of Chinese medicine too, as a large facillity like what your talking about will need at least one medical professional on staff. THAT will really cost you though, but you may be able to get on in for free, by donateing the space to him, and allowing him to conduct a comercial medical practice on your location in exchange for free, or low cost care for your monks.

[Brad]

To Brad
yes english is my first language.
Ok, then I'll go ahead and say something that I was going to tell you before that ties into bungle's credibility(and I hinted at a bit before): Defenitely get an education first before you do anything! Even if it means delaying your trip to Shaolin. No offense, but your communication skills are extremely poor. I know this is just a message board and most of us don't use perfect English all the time on here, but you write like an elementary school kid who never studies. To have any hope of making such a project a reality, you're going to be writing and speaking to lots of people here and in China. Right now, you're some kid who can barely put together a cohearent sentence in his own native language(at least in writing), and none of the people you'll need to work with to make something like this happen will take you seriously.

[joehaz100]

Ok brad I understand where your comeing from but if you knew some of whats gone on in my life you would be glad that I am doing something like this I flee i am doing a good thing and if I lose a little bit of money it will be ok.i am also buy a few restrunts and stores like 711 and cornerstores so am going to invest my money wisely and dont worry man i grew up in east oakland so i know how to handle my money but good looking out

[Royal Dragon]

How much are you getting??

No way your getting enough to do all that from a wrongful death settlement!! Your talking like 50 mill to do all that stuff. Really, your attourny's going to get a good chunk of that as well , then I'm sure Taxes will cut a big chunk out of it.

[Scythefall]

I don't understand your apparent *need* to build this temple. There's something else motivating it, because you don't seem to have any real exposure to Shaolin. I really agree that you should complete your education. You could summer at China's Shaolin temple, learn kung fu, learn mandarin, and learn what it is really about. Don't build some elaborate temple just because you are wanting the safety net. By that I mean, you haven't once mentioned going to china to train which indicates you're afraid of that prospect of being out of your element. So your answer is to bring Shaolin to you, at great expense. And it will take years to get monks to your temple if you were to build it. It took Doc Russell years to bring Shi Xingwei to us. If you go that route, what are you going to do in the meantime? Doc, he goes to Shaolin and trains whever he can. He takes business trips to talk to masters. He can't get enough of the place. He's there right now.

I'm just hoping that you can take that same tenacity you seem to have for building the temple and actually put some of it into yourself. Imagine if you felt about training, like you do about building this temple.

[KWUsCRD]

I believe you should train at Shaolin for awhile, maybe 3 years, before even attempting anything remotely like this.

I wouldn't buy a plane if I've never flown before.

My 2 cents.

[Royal Dragon]

Actually, I like the idea of building a TEmple here in the USA. I fully support it, and I sugjest I be put in charge of running it and over seeing the expenses and such.

I do have a sugjestion though, rather than putting it in Cali, I'd put it in a more central location so people form all over the US would have an eaiser time getting to it. I'd do Chicago, because it's the biggest city centrally located in the US.

























































;)

[joehaz100]

Ok first off I would love to go to china and train at the shaolin temple infact I am going there this septmeber for a few monthes too a year and mybe longer.also i would be traing the whole time this is going on. right now all i have been able to do is a few of my fourms and work out because i don't have a sifu to train with right now.

and Royal Dragon way in Chicago i mean i know so manypeople in cali that would love to have a shaolin temple to train at and be able to become a monk is it like that in Chicago? Also theres shaolin monks on the east coast and in Texas and vegas there should be one in cali.

[Royal Dragon]

Shi Yan Ming was here a number of years ago, and he held a seminar in Tong Bei Chuan that was absolutely packed!

[joehaz100]

Royal Dragon way do you think you should be put in charge of the temple and running it and over seeing the expenses and such.

[Royal Dragon]

Because I'm the best man for the job!!!

[joehaz100]

way eles would you want to handle things of that sort?

[Brad]

I do have a sugjestion though, rather than putting it in Cali, I'd put it in a more central location so people form all over the US would have an eaiser time getting to it. I'd do Chicago, because it's the biggest city centrally located in the US.
How about Worthington, OH?




:D

[Brad]

joehaz100,

For God's sake... get an education! At least take some English classes.

[joehaz100]

hey brad can you quit trying to put me down are what ever your trying to do dont worry about me i can handel mysalf alright

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!!!

[Brad]

Sorry I didn't choose a nicer way to give my opinion, but I seriously believe you need to take some English classes(or pay more attention in school). What would you rather have, honest answers or a bunch of people telling you what you want to hear because they feel bad for you? I'm going to hound you about getting an education until you acknowlegde the importance of it or you leave this message board! I'll be mean and nasty about it too until you address this issue. Assuming you're a real person and not a troll, and that you win the lawsuit, can you think of any good reason not to get a college education??? There's so much you could learn in college to help you, but maybe you're just to lazy...

I have a hard time believing that someone who can barely communicate to people in his native tongue is going to be able to convince any Chinese speaking Shaolin monks to take a non-paying position in a foriegn country. I usually don't bother people about their English skills, because mine are far from perfect, but fourm?! And what's up with the lack of capitalization and punctuation? You must be really lazy... it certainly isn't a lack of intellegence. Two employees at my place of work are severely mentally handicapped, but still posses basic writing skills.

Anyway, to be brutally honest, I think you will fail misserably. Why do I think this? Because you want to build a temple for selfish reasons! You have this fantasy image of what Shaolin should be like(based off of tall tales and 0 real research) and want to recreate it in your backyard. Do they even need a full sized functioning Shaolin Temple in California? The fact that you have a basic location picked out on your own without even the slightest idea on how to go about getting such a project started shows that this plan centers around yourself rather than the betterment of mankind. And what's with calling China's Shaolin Temple an empty shell but then wanting to take monks from there? Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? You still call it your temple and even come up with your own rules before the first brick has been laid!

[freedom76]

joehaz: I've been following this thread but I haven't had much to say, just much to ponder. First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. Second, I think it's commendable that you want to help others so much, to give them something that they may not otherwise have a chance to experience. Third, I'm not going to criticize you. I would offer some advice. In my opinion, we are all searching for peace...in whatever way we think that we can get it. Sometimes some methods seem to hold us back, giving temporary peace (i.e. getting drunk or high), but eventually some find that most peace that is coming from the outside is fleeting. It will leave, but finding peace within is far deeper. I'm not saying that external things aren't nice or beneficial (I am married and have children), but my love for others has only been limited by the love and understanding I've had for myself. As I grow inward, knowing myself, my peace truly grows and my love and understanding for others grows with it. My advice is to truly look at yourself, especially those things that you don't want to see, but also those things that you like. Study yourself. Learn outside yourself. Find that balance and see where that leads. If you can pull off this idea (the temple) that would be an accomplishment, but it may not bring you all that you are hoping for. I hope you will find what you are looking for. Your heart is in the right place. Peace.

[richard sloan]

Originally posted by Brad
Anyway, to be brutally honest, I think you will fail misserably.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I find this hilariously ironic...

Joe- take it easy man. You need to just do your thing right now. Gather info, absorb it...as most people have said, starting this project off on your own is going to be really tough. There are a host of considerations that will never cross your mind, I mean, you're not going to get land costs from a kung fu forum, you're not going to get intrinsic architectural instrucions from people who don't know about those things, nobody here probably knows how Great Buddha halls are constructed and why altars never back up against walls without walk space- just assuming on my part gentleman.

On the other hand, I for one appreciate your zeal and I think you got a lot of heart.

Sh it, speaking for myself I'm on the fence of pulling some major Mother Theresa type deal and everyone who I've mentioned it to has been, um...decidedly unreceptive, lol...I don't know the first thing about what I want to do- yet.

So keep your head up, stay focused, learn as much as you can, provide for disasters that might come (what happens if you get to China and don't like any of the monks you meet?- what happens if you start your project but don't have enough funds to finish it?) get yourself together and shoot for your dream.

It's your dream, and if every time I listened to someone who told me not to do something I really wanted to do, I'd have been passing a boring life as opposed to having lived for like three. And I'm sure as hell not done yet, lol!

[herb ox]

can you build the temple in the North Bay area of California? We're in more of a cultural vacuum than socal and SFbay. Build it in Sebastopol... they will come... (or at least I will!):D

peace and good luck on your endeavors - it's okay to dream.

herb ox

[jethro]

hey brad can you quit trying to put me down are what ever your trying to do dont worry about me i can handel mysalf alright


I was laughing so hard reading through this I felt the need to see if this kid could update us on the situation. I haven't seen any shaolin temples in cali, but then again, this kid is only 18:D

[qixingmantis]

greeting all shaolin players.....i think its a noble thought to build a shaolin temple...or at least a sattelite school of shaolin si....but remember not everyone will share your passion for the shaolin arts...you may live shaolin but most only are weekend warriors...in my small limited shaolin experience ive seen how people join a school and expect to become monks in a few weeks.....not realising the dedication and above all the time it takes...as you all know....

spend some time with a monk and decide if your willing to walk that road.....ive trained with shi yanzi shifu at STUK and been to nan hua si a chan temple offering only spiritual training - and seen how the temple is run there...its a noble thought to think of offering the shaolin dream for no money...but yanzi shifu has to charge in order to keep the temple ongoing...

and a temple belongs to the disciples and laymen who worship within its walls..i think you may feel dissapointed in that you may feel un recognised for your toils as it will have to be something you do selflessly for no gain or thanks....so youll build it and only become a student within its walls....so think long and hard....but if its your dream then do it.....

remember you have to live shaolin...and are you willing to give up all

[Dim Wit Mak]

Hey Gene this one is for you and anyone else that can help me I would like to make a shaolin temple in the USA it would probely be in califronia.I would like to have at least 10 shaolin monks come from china and live at my temple. Also I would like to be able to let people train at the temple for free and I would really like to be able all the monks in the US come and be able to teach if they want. WHo would I ask for pramission to be able to build the temple thanks bye

You had better check with that "Doc" guy in Las Vegas before proceeding. Apparently a couple of mail order monks have turned on both him and Shaolin. One monk up and married one of those Vegas cuties and took 1/3 on Doc's students. It's hard to keep em down on the farm once they've seen "gay Paree.":D

[ZhuiQuan]

Dude... first off, you might not even be able to do this if you're under 18. Maybe there are some legal issues?

I think, like someone said earlier... if you really want to give up all your settlement money to have a Shaolin temple built in California, get a reputable translator who won't fool you and steal your money, then talk to the Abbot in Shaolin. Talking to a bunch of stiffs on a message board won't get you anywhere.

Your idea has the potential to be a great reality. A fully functional Shaolin temple in the states? That's awesome. But seriously... I suggest speaking with the Abbot after you get your money and you have access to all of it.

While you're at it... please donate $25,000 to myself and my family. We don't have a lot of money, and we need to pay off our debts (which we acquired as teenagers) and feed our 3 children (4 year old, 3 year old, and an 8 month old)

Uhh... thanks.

[Mantis Fist]

Think you would have to get permission from the order of shaolin ch`an