Cross Training and Control

[taltos]

Hello all.

I have a question for those who cross train, especially in ground fighting arts.

For the sake of the discussion, let's say that Wing Chun is designed for Short Range, Upright fighting. We'll also say that Groundfighting is designed for Grappling Range, Horizontal fighting.

Do you feel (or at one point in your training did you feel) that by having to "switch modes" so to speak (going from one art to the other), that the opponent was in fact the one dictating the range? By this I mean, ,did you find yourself being more REactive instead of PROactive in the fight?

I don't know if I have phrased the question correctly, it is just something I was thinking about and I wanted to hear from those who have actually experienced the training and fighting in those scenarios.

Thanks!

-Levi

[Ernie]

levi

i think you are talking about the sticky point from one transition to another . please forgive me if i am mistaken

i recently had a blue belt in bjj come to my attribute class , and he was very impressed on how i keep the same relax feel from long range [ weapons and empty hands/ kicking] to punch range / trapping /clinch range and down to the ground

even when he took me down and locked me he excpected me to get all tight and react but i just flowed with him

so we had a discussion about this

since day one i have allways been taught to control my emotions and breathing ,
from day one i was shown to train in all ranges at once in one long connected round ,
not to isolate clinch range from kick range and trap range from weapons range

now i'm talking about sparring not teaching , when you are learning isolation is important but when you are applying seamless adaptivity is the key since things will not go the way you excpect


the only secret for use of a better word is to combine it all
i have them train stick sparring with a knife in there pocket and gloves on

as they get going i'll call to drop the stick and switch to knife then drop the knife and go empty hand , then go to clinch and then down .
since my ground game is not good i'll stop there but i have been exposed to working off the ground tossing in a weapon on the ground and add multiple attackers any where along the way during the course of one non stop round

now this is attribute stuff not ''wing chun '' but you can insert wing chun anywhere along the way if you like it's a process the ingredients may vary
:D

[Ultimatewingchun]

Levi:

I congratulate you. This is an excellent, excellent question.

"Do you feel (or at one point in your training did you feel) that by having to "switch modes" so to speak (going from one art to the other), that the opponent was in fact the one dictating the range? By this I mean, did you find yourself being more REactive instead of PROactive in the fight?

In the beginning of my crosstraining - I sometimes found that I was being reactive instead of proactive at times. For example - when using a sprawl against an attempted double-leg takedown.
Sometimes I would sprawl when I could have successfully used striking/blocking to neutralize/defeat the takedown.

In other words - I sprawled too soon. I've since then come to believe that using striking/blocking and re-positioning of my body should usually be the first response...and an out-and-out wrestling move should be used as the "next resort" - if striking doesn't seem feasible (or isn't working).

When attacking with standup wing chun - if striking/trapping/kicking opens up an opportunity to slap on a standing wrestling hold and/or a takedown...

then I have a split-second decision to make...Do I want to continue trying to strike - or should I transition to grappling?

In a sense - this becomes like a chi sao situation - wherein your contact reflexes and intuition (along with some visuals - depending upon the distance)...should be allowed to take over the decision-making process.

The overriding idea being to always seek the "move" with the highest probability of ending the fight successfully - and as quickly as possible.

Keep in mind, also, that reality-training should also dictate which mode to be in (standup wing chun or grappling)...ie. - I don't necessarily want to go to the ground to finish with a choke, for example, if he has friends around - even if the choke opportunity is staring me in the face. Perhaps in that situation I might go for a hard throw - or a combination of lock-and-throw.

So I can stay up on my feet.

[AmanuJRY]

For the sake of the discussion, let's say that Wing Chun is designed for Short Range, Upright fighting. We'll also say that Groundfighting is designed for Grappling Range, Horizontal fighting.
Do you feel (or at one point in your training did you feel) that by having to "switch modes" so to speak (going from one art to the other), that the opponent was in fact the one dictating the range? By this I mean, ,did you find yourself being more REactive instead of PROactive in the fight?


I'm kinda stuck on the set-up for this question. When I train groundfighting, I use WC concepts and techniques-just horrizontal. So "switching modes" doesn't really register.

I would say anytime an opponent takes you to a range of their favor, or out of a range that YOU are dictating, then they would be in control of the range.

Being that WC generally uses concepts of borrowing or stealing force from your opponent, I think it would normally be considered REactive. But then I'm not quite sure what you mean by PROactive.

For me, the beat may change, but the song remains the same.

[taltos]

Thanks! Definately gave me some things to consider.

-Levi

[AztecaPreist]

Let's see if I can help with my 2 cents.

Working at the jail there are some instances where I will go to apply a chi na hold and the prisoner will try to fight and pull away by flailing their bodies. I then find that shootong in and taking them to the ground for helps me out to apply a hold. And having 3 others to land on them simoltaneously doesn't hurt either;). But in those times of action I felt that I was taking what was given and did not feel like he was dictating it.