Are leg kicks a high percentage move?

[IronFist]

Say you're in a random fight with an untrained fighter who adopts a boxing stance. Would you say that using leg kicks against him (shin to thigh) would be a pretty high percentage move? More specifically I'm talking your rear right leg to his front left thigh.

(now of course, I know you can't break down fights into a formula because they're random, but I'm talking "on average" here)

(and knock on wood for me, cuz I while I hope that I never get in a fight, I hope that leg kicks work for me if I do)

I would assume that 1) an untrained fighter would totally not be expecting a kick to the legs, and 2) an untrained fighter would get a massive dead leg from a well placed leg kick.

Of course, it would be my luck to get into a fight with some trained Thai boxer who eats my leg kick with his shin and then I fall over in pain and he kicks my ass.

But I'm talking the average, untrained fighter here.

[Serpent]

IF, you have just given the correct a dead leg with your Iron shin.

[yenhoi]

That works. Better would be the side or back of his weighted knee or even the calf. Rear thai roundkicks 'specially need good setup of some sort (either a distraction or a combo.)

Heres a fight formula: straightblast, and when they cover up, grab their guard and smash a thai kick or knee into something.

:eek:

[Kristoffer]

elbow to face

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Kristoffer
elbow to face

The only thing I'd think with that is that most people probably instinctively think about blocking their face anyway.

[Kristoffer]

It depends, I guess. I don't think many people are familiar with that one so if you're good with it it might work. Corz, that could be said about any tech.

[stubbs]

i'd probably go for a thai round house or a kick to the groin or curl up into a wimpish ball on the ground while screaming like a girl
________
Amateur Exposed (http://www.****tube.com/categories/51/exposed/videos/1)

[Liokault]

Over the years I have only ever seen one guy get instantly stoped by a thai style kick to the thigh and that was in a ring fight where both parties wanted to stay at strikeing range.

I would say that it is a high percentage move in terms of how ofton you can throw it against how ofton it will land.

But I would say its low percentage as a street move due to the fact that it can be shrugged off (at least for the length of a fight, it may well leave the guy unable to walk after the adrenalin has gone) by most people and the fact that you just dont tend to stay in kicking range in for more than a few seconds in a street fight (taking a street fight as your random fight).

[Mika]

I agree with some of the guys here. In a street fight, there are no points awarded, there are no judges, there is no dancing around waiting for the other person to make a mistake, there is no looking for an opening...

As much as I respect and love Muay Thai and as useful as it really is, that particular technique - in and of itself - is not something to which I would first resort when the going gets tough.

There is a time for everything. A street fight should always be treated as a serious situation and should be handled as efficiently and quickly as possible.

IMHO.

[Meat Shake]

Use chi and eye gouges.
If that doesnt work, kick them in the nuts.
You will succeed.

[norther practitioner]

there is no dancing around waiting for the other person to make a mistake, there is no looking for an opening...


There is some.. it's during the sh1t talking phase...


I've used a few low kicks to the legs in street fights, but they weren't round kicks, they were more straight kicks.

[SevenStar]

Use your front leg kick. over the past several months, I have fallen in love with this kick. Front leg roundhouse to the inside of the thigh, knee, etc.

[IronFist]

^ the thing is, I suck with a front roundhouse. I either have to hop forward as I do it, or I have to do the switch up where my front leg becomes my rear leg and THEN I kick, both of which are slow and make it obvious that I'm going to kick.

[SevenStar]

1. train the front leg kick - it will get better. work opening the hips and turning them over quickly.

2. you can hide the switch. vary the kick between high med and low height to keep him off guard. set your kicks up with punches. Dont' do an extreme switch. you don't have to bring that front leg all the way back.

[Tak]

Isn't anything high percentage against an untrained fighter?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Tak
Isn't anything high percentage against an untrained fighter?

I've heard of MAs getting beaten up by untrained people. Hmm, altho maybe if you have a lot of street fighting experience you don't qualify as "untrained."

[dodger87]

With all the adrenaline pumping I don't think they'd feel the pain in their thighs until after the fight.

[SevenStar]

I'm not so sure they'd have to pay attn to the feeling... once their sciatic nerve tells the brain they can't stand on that leg anymore....

that said though, I would put more stock in my elbows, knees and dirty boxing than my leg kicks, for the simple fact that we would likely start the fight in close range.

[Oso]

>>^ the thing is, I suck with a front roundhouse.<<

me too, last year I tried for about 6 months to improve my front leg kicking and didn't have much success, still better with back leg kicking...not faster...time to target was faster on the front leg but landed more often and stronger w/ back leg. 'course 6 months won't erase 11+ years but I tried.


NP, been staring at your green block avatar for days now at work trying to figure out the hidden meaning, finally saw it at home on a real working computer...how is the new album?

[metadragon]

The rear leg roundhouse shin kick can be a high percentage move...
or it can be a big waste of time.

I've trained with Muy Thai guys, Karate stylists, and Wing Chun stylists who all made great use of the kick. The real problem is that it is not a particularly easy kick to apply against a moving and adrenalized opponent. The low kick has to be thrown at the right time with the right technique, or it's just a slap on the thigh...ok as a sparring score, but not so good when somebody's barreling in. Don't get me wrong, it stings, but there are plenty of guys who can take that kind of shot and not start limping until the next morning.

On the other hand, when the kick is thrown right, it can unbalance an opponent and set him up for hand tehcniques/grappling/etc. My Wing Chun instructor's shins are like iron and he has a vicious low kick. With the leg conditioning and good kicking technique, it can really put somebody into a new world of pain, but you've got to drive your energy into it. I've found that it work best at a slightly downward angle while zoning 45 degrees across the opponent's thigh. Throwing it from a stationary position often opens up the centerline...dangerous against an agressive, onrushing opponent. In particular trying to throw it while fading back leads to an instep kick even worse than the slapping kick described above.

The lead leg kick is actually pretty good on the street, if you smash the groin with your shoe and don't expect it to be the fight ender. I wouldn't bother with the lead leg slap to the thigh except if you know you're going to be bridging and have the high line well covered. Some guys can kick really hard with the lead leg roundhouse, but from what I've seen, it's mainly a speed technique. With the limited arc of a low kick, it doesn't develop the kind of power that a higher line kick would. I've found the lead leg front kick, foot jab and even short stomping side kick to have more bang for the buck.

Later,

Meta

[Sim Koning]

Isn't anything high percentage against an untrained fighter?

no crap, everyone acts like a fight with some punk on the street is very difficult and deadly. After training in heavy sparring with someone who is a much better fighter than you, fighting some untrained idiot with a big mouth is not that hard.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Oso
>>^ the thing is, I suck with a front roundhouse.<<

me too, last year I tried for about 6 months to improve my front leg kicking and didn't have much success, still better with back leg kicking...not faster...time to target was faster on the front leg but landed more often and stronger w/ back leg. 'course 6 months won't erase 11+ years but I tried.


What are you guys targeting, and how are you doing the kick? I've fallen in love with it over the past several months, and am pretty accurate with it. I usually kick to the inner thigh, outside if he's in the opposite lead. I work it on the bag constantly and can get pretty good power out of it, even without the switch. It's all in the opening and closing of the hips.

[Oso]

front leg front to ribs, trying to sneak in under guarding hand

front leg round to stomach/ribs

side kick mostly as a defensive posting kick.

this was in the sport jujitsu context where the standup was basically karate kumite rules. was trying to play the speed game when that's not my forte'.

it was said that I had a funky jink in my chamber for my rear leg kicks that threw the timing off for the defender. :confused:

not doing sport jj anymore so i'll stick with what works for me.

usually my front leg kicks are low to the knee/shin/ankle for rooting the opponents lead leg as I close with hands.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by metadragon
T The real problem is that it is not a particularly easy kick to apply against a moving and adrenalized opponent. The low kick has to be thrown at the right time with the right technique, or it's just a slap on the thigh...ok as a sparring score, but not so good when somebody's barreling in. Don't get me wrong, it stings, but there are plenty of guys who can take that kind of shot and not start limping until the next morning.

that's a good point - the rear leg kick should be set up with strikes.

it can really put somebody into a new world of pain, but you've got to drive your energy into it. I've found that it work best at a slightly downward angle while zoning 45 degrees across the opponent's thigh. Throwing it from a stationary position often opens up the centerline...dangerous against an agressive, onrushing opponent. In particular trying to throw it while fading back leads to an instep kick even worse than the slapping kick described above.

that's another good point - you have to commit to the kick. stepping out at an angle and swinging the leg through with the hips. by stepping straight ahead, you are bringing yourself directly into his punching range.

Some guys can kick really hard with the lead leg roundhouse, but from what I've seen, it's mainly a speed technique. With the limited arc of a low kick, it doesn't develop the kind of power that a higher line kick would.

you HAVE to get the hip motion the hip opens and turns over, closing again.

[SevenStar]

you quit sport jj? what happened to trying for the national team? I thought you were still doing it along with mantis.

[Oso]

after exploring the option of moving into my own space, I decided I couldn't afford it w/ only a dozen solid students.

so, I attempted to get more time at the rec center but can't do to some long standing clogging and garland dancing groups that have the rest of the evenings booked up.

I only have 3 nights a week available to me at the rec center and can't get in till 7pm on one of those.

So, wanting to give my students more time, I extended the class times I have now. Unfortunately, I teach on the same nights as the jujitsu classes and by doing this I can't get to class.

Had a long talk w/ my jujitsu teacher, who has really become a good mentor in my own efforts as a teacher, and he supported my decision fully. It was a tough decision that I didn't want to make but ultimately I need to give all I can to my students.

[SevenStar]

your students are fortunate to have you as their teacher.

[Oso]

thanks, that means a lot.

right now, I've got a three year plan to quit the real world and teach full time by the time I'm 40.

back to topic...


I probably just need to work on the front leg more. Right now I'm just more effective, if slower, with the rear leg.

Are you meaning that you are utilizing front leg kicks for entering now as opposed to another method?

[Mika]

Originally posted by Sim Koning


no crap, everyone acts like a fight with some punk on the street is very difficult and deadly. After training in heavy sparring with someone who is a much better fighter than you, fighting some untrained idiot with a big mouth is not that hard.

That depends on how you define "hard". Nah, forget semantics. It can be very hard. Or it can be very easy. The very easy scenario is easy for everyone to visualize, but in case someone cannot think of a situation that could be characterized as hard, allow me to paint a quick picture.

You're in a bar. You weigh 140 and you're 5'7". Your friend just left to get the car. He needs to take you home because you're buzzing pretty hard. You start walking toward the door but stumble into a 275 pound, 6'4" linebacker and 5 of his buddies. This linebacker is NOT having a good day. He seems to have a lot of bad days (read: he has been to quite a few bar fights). He wants to take you to the ground. His buddies seem to feel the same way about the situation.

That's hard. And even with the alcohol removed, the situation is tricky at best. And even with the buddies removed, it's still a serious situation with this guy.
Now, if you take this situation - or any of its variants as described - and put it somewhere behind the bar, it doesn't necessarily get much better.

If you know what to do and have a cool head, you should be OK. Hopefully. But nonetheless, street and bar fights can be tough just as easily as they can be easy.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Mika
But nonetheless, street and bar fights can be tough just as easily as they can be easy.

That sounded cool.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Oso
Are you meaning that you are utilizing front leg kicks for entering now as opposed to another method?

yeah, I do. I will throw it out there to make them aware that it's ther and it stings. I also use it in combinations, typically at the start or end of a combination. yesterday in class, I made someone wince from landing the front leg to the ribcage - I can tell it's getting better.