Chen Taiji Blog/Questions

[Nick Forrer]

Okay people

Following on from the WC/hsing I thread, I am posting my experiences/thoughts as a beginner in Chen Taiji

About me: I have been practicing MA since about the age of 12 (I'm 25 now) but for the last 6 years or so my bread and butter art has been Wing Chun.

Lineage: Yip Man-Wong Shun Leung-Clive Potter-Me

I have just started Chen taiji

Lineage: Chen Xiaowang-Kinthissa-me

And on this thread I shall be relating my thoughts/questions/experiences/impressions etc.

Stay tuned...............

[shrub]

Any info on your Chen teacher?

[Nick Forrer]

Try This link

Teacher Bio (http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tai_chi.html)

[Nick Forrer]

Kinthissa was born in Rangoon in 1952. She studied Far Eastern art and philosophy at Vassar and London, where she encountered the taijiquan she had glimpsed as a child on her way to school. She was then apprenticed for 10 years to Gerda Geddes who, inspired in Shanghai in 1949 by the sight of an old man playing taijiquan along the Yangtze estuary, later studied with Master Choy HawkPang (student of Yang ChengFu), and pioneered the teaching of taijiquan in England upon her return.

From 1977 to 1989, Kinthissa taught Yang Style 108 Form, mainly in London and Basel. She learned from Tew Bunnag the Beijing 24 Form and practised his method of combining taijiquan with samadhi bhavana in the running of silent retreats. Between 1982-89, she worked with students at the London Contemporary Dance School to find ways for them to regenerate energy and maintain awareness during strenuous training. In China, Kinthissa learnt Flying Crane Qigong, Sword Form, and the modern 48 Form. She teaches at her home in Lunigiana, in England and in Iceland.

Since 1995, Kinthissa has been studying intensively with Chen XiaoWang, the 19th generation representative of the Chen family of Chenjiagou, Henan Province, China. The profundity of Master Chen's taijiquan and the clarity of his teaching have drawn to him serious practitioners of the art from all over the world. Following his advice and under his guidance, Kinthissa holds classes in the fundamentals of taijiquan and form, including Master Chen's chanssujin ("Reeling Silk") exercises which are easy to learn and offer a lifetime's exploration, forging and dredging the energetic pathways of the body.

[zultan]

I myself just switched from wing tsun to chen taji.I only had one class but it's definately different.i learned a few silk reeling excersises and just worked on that.I know im in for learning a new level of relaxing and body connection.if i keep this up im going to have legs of freakin iron.ive been told that the two arts are similar yet at the same time very different(the differences are quite obvious)im just gonna try it out and see how it goes.The teacher seems very good and its really close so thats definately encouraging.Good luck in your training and keep us up to date!

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by zultan


i learned a few silk reeling excersises


Me too. We did them
- one handed stationary
- two handed stationary
- one handed moving
- two handed moving
- one handed stepping
- two handed stepping

They were done to a 4 count i.e.

1) palm out to palm up as the arm circles down
2) Move hand across the body
3) palm up to palm facing you as you turn the body diagonally
4) palm out and move hand/arm across in the other direction

And so on...

The teacher used terminology Im not familiar with i.e. 1) - 4) correspond as follows

1) 'chi to the waist'
2) 'chi to the dan tien'
3) 'chi to the back'
4) 'chi to the fingers'

If anyone can explain these I'd be grateful.


Originally posted by zultan

if i keep this up im going to have legs of freakin iron.


Yeah I know the feeling- we started with 45 minutes of Jam Jong/standing post. Is this also called Zhuang something?
Anyway..My legs were shaking like jelly!


Originally posted by zultan
Good luck in your training and keep us up to date!

Thanks v much. I have my 2nd class tonite!

[scotty1]

"Is this also called Zhuang something?"

Zhan Zhuang.

[looking_up]

45 minutes of standing seems like a bit much for a beginner. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[BigRedMountain]

45 minutes of Zhan Zhuang for a first timer?... A very demanding teacher indeed.
Or perhaps it was a test to observe the student’s limitations and/or resolve.
In any case, I say “Kudos!” to Nick!! Many would have given up where you persevered!

I have heard that some teachers (in China) require a student be able to stand for an hour before they are taught the first posture of the form. Training for this first challenge can take a year or more. By the sound of it, you are most of the way there already!


Peace.

[zultan]

Ive been to two classes so far and we stand for about 20 min. at the beginning of class,then i did silk reeling.Today(my second class)I was shown the first few moves of the 19 form (i think thats what it was called).I believe its a short form to introduce the student.The guy that teaches is a student of Ren GuangYi.
I would imagine different teachers have their own ways of teaching.Nick,ask them to perform the sword form for you.Its a very cool looking form.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by zultan
Today(my second class)I was shown the first few moves of the 19 form (i think thats what it was called).

Yeah Ive started doing this too. We went through the whole thing and then broke it down into sections. Last week we cocnentrated on the middle section, this week we concentrated on the first section. I can just about remember the opening which she called

5 steps to preperation

1) feet together
2) Left foot up onto toes
3) Step out to the left
4) Centre weight
5) 'Listening behind'

Then
1) arms up to shoulder height
2) arms down and sink weight

Then the form begins

We got up to double hands push after the forward steps and the punch

We also did a stomach rubbing excercise combined with a slight shifting of the weight.

Does anyone know what this is called?

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by looking_up
45 minutes of standing seems like a bit much for a beginner. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Erm..It may not have been this much although it certainly felt like it at the time...perhaps it was more like 30 mins. The teacher did say last night that when she started she had to do it for 30 mins.

[looking_up]

You can stand for 30 minutes, and then you can stand for 30 minutes. I.e. if you do it right it is very hard, but in the beginning it is just good to stand and the results will come naturally. In other words, rock on brutha.

The rubbing the stomach exercise is a sort of finishing exercise, we don't really name it but it is rotating the dantien. After doing qigong or forms it is a good way to bring the energy and attention back down to the dantien.

[wujimon]

Congrats on training in chen taiji, that's good stuff. I also train under an instructor who trains under CXW.

I believe the rubbing belly thing is basically a silk reeling warm up and it can cover the second moving principle (??) of side to side rotation.

Since you created the thread with "blog" in the title, why not start up a training/martial arts weblog with http://www.blogger.com/ ?

good luck ;)
w.

[scotty1]

Another reason for rubbing the stomach in that way is that it aids digestion by stimulating peristalsis (sp?).

[zultan]

nick,just wondering how you would compare wing chun and chen?Did you completely stop wing chun or are you doing both arts?

[zultan]

nick,.are you dropping wing chun or doing both arts?
im just dabbling at the moment but i will eventually just do one of the arts.as cool as chen is, its hard to get those wing chun goggles off

[zultan]

crap.didnt mean to post the same question twice.i thought the first time didnt go through

[Nick Forrer]

Hey Zultan,

Im just looking into chen. Ive been wanting to broaden my horizons for a while- not because i have any doubts about WC - in fact every time I train with my instructor i become more convinced that i am on the right path.

But..It is a big world out there with lots of cool things to look into.

Bottom line is this- Whether chen is better than wc or wc is better then chen i dont know and frankly i think its a red herring. The question is who is the best teacher you have available and how much work ar you prepared to put into it. This is what determines your ultimate success.

I have a very good WC Pedigree (WSL) and looking into taiji the name that kept coming up was chen xiaowang so when I saw a local class i lept at the chance.

I try and train almost every day and I have a couple of reg. training partners so I am not sacrificing WC for taiji. You may not be so lucky but where there is a will there is a way!

Anyway good luck!

[Nick Forrer]

My Chen teacher is abroad for a couple of months so my taiji training is on hold till then...

But rest assured I will keep practicing standing post and silk reeling:)

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by looking_up
45 minutes of standing seems like a bit much for a beginner. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

mmmmmm......sounds like teacher required some display of commitmentand or discipline because that really is a little muchish for a nooby.............

I have studied chen off an on over a shorter than alot of people here, most recently in Zhengzhou , Henan Province with our schools accountant come local taijimaster. The exercises you are describing sound like extremely basic warm up sets. Perhaps it's from prior experience or maybe it's more about Chinese instruction in China vs western instruction methods, but in Henan my master had me doing 18 move sets ( without thinking too hard) and was quite more complicated tham only basic palm and steps.

Our warm up was usually the body slap and rub ( familiar to most styles of Bagua Zhang in the area, which is how most folks here will refer to taiji) ........also warm up included kicks and jump kicks, oh, and 4 opening doors / gates ............ She knew I 99% more than likely had already done bw exercises, brocades, and warm ups before I saw her at 6:30am, so I guess that would explain why our physical warm up component was briefer..........as long as she could see that I could perform the move daily, she was happy to continue...........the luxury of private instruction ha :D

did you say your teacher was from Chenjiaguo in henan??........

Did they, by any chance own a fruit shop???............did anyone else get that translation??:p :cool:

[apl]

Just wanted to comment on the standing post exercise that Nick was asking about. The "stomach rubbing" is called tan tien rotation and is actually the third technique in Master Chen's method and not (only) the second technique as Wujimon suggested.

To clarify, the first technique is tan tien moving left and right on the Y axis or vertical center. The second technique is tan tien moving forward and back. This technique is also referred to as chest and stomach folding in other Taijiquan curriculums, most notably that of Master Feng Zhiqiang. The third technique is the tan tien moving in a more complex manner that is a combination of techniques one and two. For example, in the single arm circle exercise (Zheng Mian Chan Si) the change of yang energy to yin (transition from step 4 to step 1) and vice versa (transition from 2 to 3) is a third technique movement.

Also I have heard people suggest that the tan tien rotation is to bring the qi back to the tan tien. Master Chen is very explicit and has said many times that the qi is not kept in the tan tien but circulates through the entire body. The tan tien is like grand central station in that all qi must move through that area and is therefore a crucial area of convergence. But the qi does not stop and stay there.

Any thoughts?

apl