San Soo [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

5thBrother

03-15-2003, 02:12 AM

paul clark wrote

Listen here is the whole scoop. Chin SUe Dek came from China to America aka Jimmy
woo. He taught traditional kung fu for the first ten to twelve years, iron body training,
How to breathe, tradtional forms etc. Right as Vietnam started things changed from
what I can figure. It was as I can related to my own experience harder to keep students
if you teach the way he was taught. Not many people like to come to class in sit in a
low horse for fifteen minutes at a time and do forms a thousand times. They want fast
food chop saki self defense. So from what I can gather he and some of his students
made some teaching manuals which consisted of short thirty movement forms and
techniques. They are a couple hundred of them in each book. Well here is my dilema.
You see a thousand articles by a thousand different people wearing karate uniforms all
telling a different story presenting it as gospel and they look like a karate guy doing a
take down. They don't move at all like Chin sifu( Jimmy woo) or my sifu. THey don't
recognize my forms, our iron body evercises or anything. They look at it and say
THat is classical kung fu we don't do that.
Lo sifu is dead everyone has a different story and I know all this stuff that I cherish but
I got huge gaps. So what I am thinking about is simply retaining what I know and just
finding another sifu. I basically have ten traditonal forms no one recognizes and
thousands of techniques and exercises and a couple hundred short forms in the teaching
books. So when I found out the link between us and Choy Li Fut from my Si HIng Denny
who is from Hong Kong He had been researching for about ten years or so I bought all
the Doc Fai Wong tapes and read his books. I learned a lot and have a lot of new forms.
Somebody wrote me, a gentleman from wing Chun and suggested that Hung ga is a
surname for the Chin Family. I don't know. I am thinking of cross training and learning
Hung gar. Does anybody know of some Hung gar Sifu in Michigan or Canada who would
take a student with a letter of recomendation? I really wnat to continue and learn from a
master who believes that lineage, and history is important. If all these teachers for all
these years taught and learned and improved upon things why shouldn't we learn and
retain what they they so dilligently seeked? I don't want to give up but what is CHoy Li
Ho Fut Hung Ga? WHo am I?

paul clark

------

Please keep any BS posts to the other thread ...

monk weed

03-15-2003, 08:33 AM

I think that sansoo style is a combination of many shaolin styles with choy lay fut being a small part of it. If the chan or chin siu hung in question was the same as the one of choy lay fut fame then there is a good possibility that there is a choy lay fut link. I feel the thing to remember is that the same chan siu hung was not a blood relitave of chan heung and that his family might have studied a different kind of martial art and had it passed down to jimmy woo. I have heard that chan siu hung has a relative living somewhere in L.A. It might be benificial to try to locate him.

iron_silk

03-15-2003, 02:23 PM

I recall reading an article about the sansoo community had finally decided on chosing a grandmaster for the system since jimmy woo had passed away for such a long time.

I can't seem to find the article...but perhaps if someone knew what i was talking about can contact the current leader of the system?

extrajoseph

03-15-2003, 08:39 PM

What you learned was CLF as passed down by Chin Siu Dek or Jimmy Woo in the early days, so if you want to go down the traditional path then you should do CLF as your cross training. Sifu Paul Chan from Canada is your best bet, he has the same lineage as Sifu Chin who studied with Chan Siu-Hung, one of Chan Koon Pak's top disciples before he left China, Chan Siu Hung's son is still alive and lives in Toishan.

If what you said is true, then Sifu Chin have changed his teaching since Vietnam so as to reach a wider audience. The name Choi Li Ho Fut Hung is a little more difficult to explain, do you know when he changed it from Kung Fu San Soo? Hung is definitely not a surname for Chin Family.

Iron-silk,

The grandmastership was passed onto his daughter's son. Sadly his son was not interested in Kung Fu.

Monk-weed,

Chan Siu Hung do not have a relative living in LA, you are probably thinking of Chan Heung, whose great great grandson, Ng Fu-Heng lives and teaches in LA.

5thBrother

03-15-2003, 10:03 PM

ExtraJoseph

Thanks for your information..

i am not clf or san soo...

i always learn a lot from ur posts...

----

are there any pratitioner from very early days of jimmy woo teaching there more "traditional kung fu" (for lack of a better word :/ )..

monk weed

03-16-2003, 07:24 AM

Thank you extrajoseph, that's who it was.

brandeissansoo

03-16-2003, 02:55 PM

Jimmy actually told people that to be a grandmaster, your grandchild has to be a black belt. From this statement, certain people have claimed to be "grandmasters". Using this definition, it's perfectly possible to have more than one grandmaster in a system.

By the way, for the person in michigan: www.sansoomichigan.com

In addition, I have read that the Hung character in TLHFH is not the same as the hung character in Hung gar

iron_silk

03-16-2003, 03:47 PM

i haven't found the article yet but I think the leader of the system wasn't chosen by Jimmy but by the members of the style...i think...

Also grandmaster could mean an indivdual whom produced masters? But that is different from a leader?

extrajoseph

03-16-2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by iron_silk
i haven't found the article yet but I think the leader of the system wasn't chosen by Jimmy but by the members of the style...i think...

Also grandmaster could mean an indivdual whom produced masters? But that is different from a leader?

Jimmy Woo's grandson, James King was chosen as the President of the International Kung Fu San Soo Association after his death. I am not sure if he is a certified Master or Grandmaster but he is the recognized leader of the IKFSSA group. You can join in their email group and find out a lot of information like first generation masters etc. Makes good reading if you have the time.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IKFSSA-Email-group/

Brandeissansoo,

You are quite right, looking at the home page with the Chinese characters of the website you gave, the Hung character in CLHFH means hero (as in "ying hung") and not the same as the character Hung in Hung Ga.

brandeissansoo

03-16-2003, 04:53 PM

There really isn't a leader of the style right now. JP is the president of the pretty much disbanded IKFSSA. He's an awesome guy, and I enjoy having him throw me about whenever I go home. He is IMO the person that could bring back the IKFSSA. Because of the actions of the IFKSSA in previous years, most schools aren't a part of it.

extrajoseph

03-16-2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by brandeissansoo
There really isn't a leader of the style right now. JP is the president of the pretty much disbanded IKFSSA. He's an awesome guy, and I enjoy having him throw me about whenever I go home. He is IMO the person that could bring back the IKFSSA. Because of the actions of the IFKSSA in previous years, most schools aren't a part of it.

Brandeissansoo,

Thank you for information, may I ask:

What actions were they that caused everyone to leave? What is the position of the Chan Siu Dek Hing Dai Wui within IFKSSA? And are there other San Soo groups apart from IKFSSA?

You don't have to answer if you think it is too political, we understand.

brandeissansoo

03-16-2003, 09:03 PM

I'm not quite sure why everyone started to leave, because I was about 12 years old, perhaps sansoosifu could shed some light on the subject, since he is normally not afraid of going against the political grain :D

Hing Dai Wu is an association outside of the IKFSSA that was set up by Tom Akers. They made a temple in florida and have been practicing "traditional" kung fu training using plum flower posts (I think that's what they are called) wodden dummies, etc.(things that Jimmy didn't have in his studio, but according to HDW he trained using them).

As for other associations, I am only aware of two, the first being the Predator San Soo Association, which is a part of the IKFSSA (or at least they are friendly with Bernice Chin Woo and JP). Predator San Soo is a group made up of Airborne Rangers and members of SFOD-D.

The second is the Dap Ga KFSS association, created by Master Juan Meza. I don't have any more information about their relationships with the other associations.

extrajoseph

03-16-2003, 10:54 PM

Thank you, that was very generous of you to give us some insightful information.

JAZA

03-20-2003, 05:21 PM

http://www.kungfusansoostuff.com/vid/vidframesalt_1.html
looks like kempo

brandeissansoo

03-20-2003, 05:53 PM

Perhaps you could post a link to some kempo videos, so I could compare. I have never seen kempo, so I couldn't offer any insight

03-20-2003, 08:10 PM

extrajoseph,

Where does Ng Fu-Heng teach in Los Angeles?

Thanks,
J

T. Cunningham

03-20-2003, 08:20 PM

The link for Ng Fu Hang's school is http://www.choyleefut.us/

jujiffsoo

04-22-2003, 08:00 AM

To Paul Clark,

Where did you compile this ionformation from when you did the history search on Jimmy H. Woo? I have been doing research and have not come across any information that you have posted. I have read some of this information on Tom Akers and Ikes sites, no where else.

I am creating a history of Kung Fu San Soo and its' origin. Most of the information I have recieved was either by, first generation Master who knew Jimmy and Jimmy's family.

Jeff
San Soo

ironhorse420

06-28-2006, 11:38 PM

I was just wondering is san soo any good of a style what dose it have in it because I want to learn a martial art but my town sux san soo is the only thing they have. That and muay thai can anyone help me.

BlueTravesty

06-29-2006, 02:31 AM

I believe it would depend on the quality of the class. Even arts like Karate and Tae Kwon Do can prove to make for good classes if the quality of instruction is there. I would say to check out both the San Soo and the MT class and go with whichever you feel you would get the most from.

Consider your reasons for taking the class. Are you taking the class because you want to get a dose of "the TMA Experience?" (i.e. cultural aspects, weapons, forms, etc.) I don't know how much or in what way those aspects apply to San Soo, but Chinese styles usually offer heaping helpings of that (I hear San Soo is pretty progressive as CMA goes.)

On the other hand, if you really want to learn for self-defense purposes or because you've got a hankering to fight competitively, I would lean toward the Muay Thai class. Not because I feel that San Soo would have any less to offer as far as fighting goes, but because Muay Thai would give you a good array of basics you can train in and gain proficiency in more quickly. Plus if you want to fight competitively you wouldn't have to worry about "temporarily dropping" groin kicks and other illegal blows from your training like you would in San Soo.

Hope that helps!:)

Knifefighter

06-29-2006, 08:49 AM

If you want a system that has techniques that are "too deadly" to be practiced hard against a fully resisting opponent, take San Soo.

If you want a functional standing striking system that also will get you in great shape, take Muay Thai.

B-Rad

06-29-2006, 10:01 AM

Visit a class of each, and decide which seems to put out the most impressive product. One will probably stand out a lot more than the other :)

gtberg

07-03-2006, 04:53 PM

I have never heard of this system until I saw the school in Bedford, Texas. Visit their website, or google search the name and you should find the school. They have some information of the history of the style. Are you from Texas Ironhorse?

ironhorse420

07-05-2006, 12:36 AM

No I am not from texas but san soo seems like a good style to learn. There is also a tae kwon do school but the instructor sux his team hasnt won crap so I want to learn san soo a chinese guy teaches it. I would rather learn a kung fu style from a chinese guy instead of a pasty white guy lol. Then I am moving to san francisco next year and I am really interested in jeet kune do because of the pholosophys and the way it incorprets all types of styles into one so I can put some san soo into the fighting art. I think that would be kick ass thanx for everyones help.:) :)

miksan

07-06-2006, 09:52 PM

i would say it would depend on the class and the instructor. i have been taking san soo for about 14 years. i also take judo and have taken MT for a couple of years. San Soo does use traditional chinese weapons and forms. MT is good art.:)

ironhorse420

07-07-2006, 01:18 AM

Thanx I will definetly check out the muay thai too. Is san soo as brutal as they say it is though?

MIKSANSOO

07-08-2006, 08:36 AM

Any art can be brutal if you choose it to be. By brutal, what do you mean? The majority of the first strikes are usually the nose, throat and groin. But of coarse it depends how you train also. I believe it depends on the practicioner.:)

B-Rad

07-08-2006, 09:17 PM

I would rather learn a kung fu style from a chinese guy instead of a pasty white guy lol.
:rolleyes:

ironhorse420

07-09-2006, 12:58 AM

By brutal I mean dose it have any grab and throws in it or killing tecneques you know stuff like that :confused:

MIKSANSOO

07-09-2006, 12:05 PM

By brutal I mean dose it have any grab and throws in it or killing tecneques you know stuff like that

Yes it has grab and throws. killing techneques......no. there are throws that are taught for your attacker to land on their head/neck area. which i guess can kill someone if they land had on concrete. or a solid strike to the throat collapsing the trachea might do some damage.

Shaolindynasty

07-10-2006, 08:06 AM

I would rather learn a kung fu style from a chinese guy instead of a pasty white guy lol

The san soo guy is chinese, that must mean he is automatically a better choice:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ironhorse420

07-11-2006, 01:18 AM

Thats sweet my town sux I am going to learn san soo I start next class. If it licks ass then I am going to leave I guess thats the only way to see if its good or not. I cant wait untill I move to Okland CA so I can learn jeet kune do that **** is off the hook no whose with me on that?:) :cool:

Steeeve

08-10-2006, 01:30 PM

Does anybody here have some info about this system ...

I saw some of kung fu san soo....its a applications system for sure for kickbutt

But the lineage is a little bit confused ....Does its a choy lay fut or maybe a lama pai lineage blend with some others stuff...the takedown look like shuai jiao...

the late gm woo teached for a long time in the USA.....This version of applied kung fu....I have no doubt about his skills ...

Steeve

San Soo Sifu

08-10-2006, 02:05 PM

If you are truly interested, you can email me at:
sansoosifu@hotmail.com

The Xia

08-11-2006, 01:54 PM

Instead of having this thread end, why don't you post the information here?

street_fighter

08-11-2006, 06:12 PM

CMA knowledge can't just be imparted to anyone you know! Thats why san soo sifu is telling only steeeve... who he doesn't know... and just met on the internet...

Seriously, this is the internet. If your going to tell one random guy, you might as well tell all of us. Who knows how seeevey will use this info anyway, he more than likely will tell anyone the answers who has this question in the future. Cut out the middle man, and tell us all. The only thing asking for private conversations does, is make you look really shady. How do we know that you aren't some idiot who doesn't know the answers, but likes to think that he does, so has private convos with peeps so no one will catch you telling lies?

Green Cloud

08-11-2006, 08:34 PM

I have to agree with you guys, anyone that doesn't post a web site or contact info souds suspect to me.

Steeeve

08-12-2006, 03:56 PM

From What I have read about this system ...the original style or the old method was call kung fu sansoo(the method of teaching was base in the Ah soo,fut ga,tsoi li ho...dap ga and num pi...all this name represent lesson or techniques groups (Ah soo teach the Punch and kick combinaitions,fut ga offensive techniques ) and so on...
its a method of teaching who came from Jimmy Woo and Frank Woosley (a top student of Jimmy)

..later the name was change for tsoi li ho fut.. some.giving a lineage to the CLF family(Chan Heung) and said its a village choy lay fut system with emphazize in applications....But some kung fu san soo said than the system have nothing to do with Choy lay fut

Kung fu san soo is very effective style with emphazize in applications ....and from what I saw of KF san soo the system is unique...But Does the CLF or the lama pai have some influenced in the system ? San soo used a lot of powerful long range punch like cup choi ,pek choy ,sau choi ...

next questions ...Does books who came from the Monasterie Kwan yin ...with all the techniques and forms brought to america by jimmy.....difficult in 2006 to believe on that....just my opinion

San soo sifu I will to e mail U ...but thats will good if u could if U share ur information with all

Peace
Steeve

Green Cloud

08-13-2006, 07:58 AM

We all know what San Soo is and all about its contraversial lineage.

I don't have any questions about the style, I'm just concerned about the lack of info that was posted.

San Soo Sifu

08-13-2006, 04:22 PM

Green Cloud

08-13-2006, 04:34 PM

Please allow me to thank all those of you who have sent me emails requesting information. Your polite and respectful emails are greatly appreciated. I sincerely hope that you find the information useful. Please don't hesitate to contact me in the future if you may need (or want) further information. Take care, and God bless.

Oh please, anyone that e mailed this fool is a fool, thank god you weren't in jones town with all those unfortunate dead brain washed saps.

this guy posts no pertinent info no contact info and is just trying to brain was some poor unsuspecting fool that thinks this guy is mysterious what a joke

Mulong

08-14-2006, 04:44 PM

Personally I have footage on Shifu Woo; honestly, the lu (way/form) he performed seems to be derived from cailifoquan.

Curious, are the characters/ideogram for san soo the same for sanshou (Mandarin) saansau (Guangdongese/ Cantonese), which merely means scatter hand, which can be refer to as simply as techniques, which doesn’t intake to any particular style.

Steeeve

08-15-2006, 10:53 AM

Howdy

The forms in san soo are short ...28 mouvements is the way...and yes maybe some look like CLF but not from the CLF forms ...(sup jee or siu mui fa and so on...

Does U thing san soo is a applied CLF system ? maybe its the original CLF for combat...????? just a questions...

Steeve

Steeeve

08-15-2006, 10:58 AM

San soo kung fu is the name give in this earlest years when everybody done Karate in the USA....even the name was kung fu /karate san soo...not a lot of kung fu in the USA before Bruce Lee .....just Gm Ark Yueh Wong of the Ng ga kuen ((5 family /5 animals system)

Steeve

Mulong

08-15-2006, 11:12 AM

The possibly the lu (way) are so shorter, were to fit the norm of the typical kata, which are usually smaller then your average lu. Also, it is easier to retain, i.e., memories, especially for a beginner.

However, I was to be a devil advocate; maybe because that’s all they had to offer; hence, stretch out a large lu into a few lu. I know a certain pioneer of Chinese martial arts in Northeast, who stretch tantui (spring leg) for years, when it could have been taught in a few months.

Sincerely, there is no original combat style; they all are; hence, why they still exist to this present day.

Personally, I don’t think the san soo is an older version of cailifoquan, but derive from it.

Steeeve

08-15-2006, 11:28 AM

Mulong

I agrree with U about the forms and the derivate of san soo with CLF ...Tsai li ho fut hung ....for 5 family or 5 range of fightings...

About forms ...system with short forms use that ....cause the emphasize are in the application or the san soo ....if u have to learn a form with 300 or more motions its a ballet (dance) ....depends of why u learned forms for train what?Whats the purpose to learn forms?

Nice to meet U Mulong

Steeve

Mulong

08-15-2006, 01:14 PM

A taolu or set way implies a way of doing things; just simply perceive a lu as an encyclopedia of techniques, i.e., sifa (four methods), da (striking), ti (kicking), na (controlling) and shuai (throwing-down).

However, that is the surface level of the shape (xing) or thought (yi), but deep within lies the spirit (shen), which lead us to metaphysical realm, i.e., qigong (air achievement), etc.

A pleasure making your acquaintance Steeeve. ;)

kungfugorilla

08-28-2006, 10:40 AM

I am happy to share info about Kung Fu San Soo. I love the art, I have used it and it has worked without fail.

I recommend starting at the website: www.kungfusansoo.com or view a class.

There are several schools, many of which have diluted the art. I can only speak of a handful that teach the true art of San Soo (which is the common name for the art) as Jimmy Woo taught it.

If you are in the Los Angeles area I recommend www.sansoocenter.com Come check out the school and take a class.

I have seen other arts and have not seen the practicality of the style. I have used it in real life situations and have seen other arts fail in real life situations.

But as far as questions, fire away :)

Steeeve

08-28-2006, 11:06 AM

Thank Gorilla

are u a kung fu san soo or a tsoi li ho fut ga players?:)

Steeve

kungfugorilla

08-28-2006, 11:35 AM

Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung would be the families. As I have always been told, San Soo, loosely translated is "total body movement”, "many hands" or "like rice at a wedding".

I do not speak Chinese, but take your pick, they all imply the same thing: Constant movement and all over the place.

The way I have been taught is that you are always in motion and are setting up each shot, not only not giving your opponent the chance to attack/counter-attack, but also creating confusion so that the opponent does not know what hit him until it is too late.

kungfugorilla

08-28-2006, 11:37 AM

In answer to your question ( I suppose I misread it ), yes I have been studying San Soo for nearly 7 years and should be getting my second degree Black Belt in January.

Steeeve

08-28-2006, 12:28 PM

BigGorilla:)

Sorry my english is bad im difficult to follow:) :D

I have learned the ah soo and fut ga .....Bill

Do u learned the old style ?ah soo ,fut ga ,choi li ho ,dap ga and num pi....

Steeve

kungfugorilla

08-28-2006, 02:13 PM

We try to incorporate all of it, not necessarily focusing on one particular family. My instructor is Master Lawrence Rouse, second-generation master under Master Larry Wikel.

Master Wikel received his Master from (the only) Grand Master of San Soo, Jimmy Woo.

Our lessons incorporate all the basics; kicks, punches, blocks (re-directs) and into throws, leverages and sweeps. Master Rouse is quite proficient in complex leverages and throws, however is very experienced in all aspects of the art.

Where do you study in Canada?

kungfugorilla

08-30-2006, 08:01 AM

Your best bet is to start on www.kungfusansoo.com this is the association site run by Bernice Woo, Jimmy's widow. I have spoken with Master Larry Wikel, Master Jerry Druckerman, Master Sharon Wikel, Master Bernice Woo and Master JP King (Jimmy's grandson) - All of these people received there degree of Master from Jimmy - all tell consistent stories of the lineage and the art. I would question anything inconsistent with that site. Start there.

I have seen the art practiced and taught by Master Larry Wikel, Master Sharon Wikel, Master JP King, Master Lawrence Rouse and Master Chuck Cory (Chuck is often thought of as a first generation master, but actually received his black belt and most of his instruction from Larry Wikel). I have seen foundational consistencies in their workout, techniques and instruction. I have also worked out with their students as well as Master Kurt Bellman’s and Master Jerry Druckerman's students. These are the only instructors that I can first hand say, are teaching the art that Jimmy Woo (aka Chin Su Dek) brought to this country from China - an art that originated in Southern China and came from the monks at the Kuan Yin monastery in Pon Hong. You can find the detailed history on the history link I provided above.

Where are you from and what art do you study?

henrysansoo

09-20-2006, 12:17 PM

You have most of your information correct except for two items.
1)Master James King (JP), Grandmaster Jimmy H. Woo's grandson got his black belt from the Grandmaster but got his 1st through 7th degree black belt and Master ranking from Master Jack Sera because his grandfather had already retired. It takes about 4 years to get a black belt. Each degree of black belt takes 1 year so that's 8 years from 1st degree to Master. I have worked out with JP and used to see him at the original El Monte, CA studio training under Jack. Check out Jack's website at www.sansookungfu.com since www.kungfusansoo.com has been an inactive site for about 4 years.
2) Master Chuck Cory got his Black Belt from Master Larry and Sharon Wikel but then Trained with Grandmaster Jimmy H. Woo. Chuck got his 1st thru 7th degree black belt and Master ranking from the Grandmaster. This would easily qualify Master Chuck Cory as a first generation Master and JP King as a second generation Master.

jujiffsoo

09-22-2006, 12:42 PM

Chuck or Master Cory had spent white through black with the Wikels, in fact I do beoieve he was there for three years prior to being called to Jimmys for instructors class by the man himself Jimmy. He spent a life time or more than ten years with Jimmy; all the signitures from 1st degree all the way through 10th degree is sign by Jimmy. So tell me this if Jimmy had sign all his certificates, did Jimmy step on the toes of the Wikels. No he did not he train Chuck for a long long time.:)

Your best bet is to start on www.kungfusansoo.com this is the association site run by Bernice Woo, Jimmy's widow. I have spoken with Master Larry Wikel, Master Jerry Druckerman, Master Sharon Wikel, Master Bernice Woo and Master JP King (Jimmy's grandson) - All of these people received there degree of Master from Jimmy - all tell consistent stories of the lineage and the art. I would question anything inconsistent with that site. Start there.

I have seen the art practiced and taught by Master Larry Wikel, Master Sharon Wikel, Master JP King, Master Lawrence Rouse and Master Chuck Cory (Chuck is often thought of as a first generation master, but actually received his black belt and most of his instruction from Larry Wikel). I have seen foundational consistencies in their workout, techniques and instruction. I have also worked out with their students as well as Master Kurt Bellman’s and Master Jerry Druckerman's students. These are the only instructors that I can first hand say, are teaching the art that Jimmy Woo (aka Chin Su Dek) brought to this country from China - an art that originated in Southern China and came from the monks at the Kuan Yin monastery in Pon Hong. You can find the detailed history on the history link I provided above.

Where are you from and what art do you study?

Steeeve

09-22-2006, 02:25 PM

No scholl here in Canada ....I learned it from videos .....if U have a good background in MA no problem to learned it ...its not Hsing I or Pakua ....

Steeve

jujiffsoo

09-25-2006, 07:21 AM

Kung Fu San Soo or Tsio Li Ho Fut hung is a five family fighting system that rocks, or at least this is how I feel about the art. It comes from China via the Kwon Yin Monestary of the Goddess of Mercy; When the Temple was under attack the monks gave Leuon Kik the fighting manauls (leuon was adopted by the monks). Leuon had taken the manuals to where he thought his village may be and live there until death. The books were kept through the Chin family or their family art, around 1580 - 1640, not sure of the exact date as of yet. Now we are going through time quickly into the 1930's. Chin Sui Dek or Jimmy H Woo was out visiting another village to assist in the needs of that village when the Japanese Army decided to stop by. Jimmy's Great Unlce Crazy Devil was challenge to a fight, in which at first was declined. Well the fight had taken place Jimmy's Uncle and the best of the best Japanese fighters squared off. 25 seconds later the fight was over with the JAPANESE FIGHTER DEAD. Well this made the commander very angry and had ordered the deaths of all San Soo practitioners in the village. Well the family that was left sent word to Jimmy, with money, a passport and a one way ticket to the other side of the world. He had landed in Mexico, married, brought the family to the USA and starting teaching San Soo to the public since 1959.

Kungf fu San Soo or Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung is a proven combative art, in the streets and on the field of combat.

jujiffsoo

09-25-2006, 10:15 AM

Choy Li Fut is a very very distant cousin of Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung or Kung fu San Soo. If there is any relation at all. Choy Li Fut founded in 1830, San Soo founded somewhere 1570 - 1640

Steeeve

09-26-2006, 02:14 PM

Just a opinion here ....Kung Fu San soo from GM Woo look a lot like a kind of offstyle from Lama pai ....and some CLf ...but from what I see ...mostly more lama pai ,hop gar influenced...the concept of style seem to fit very good with the hop gar concept....

Steeve

jujiffsoo

10-04-2006, 10:18 AM

My name is Jeff Cornelius Sr. I have been in the martial arts since 1973 and had studied a few prior to my introduction to Kung Fu San Soo, or Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung. My lineage is as follows; Master Wikels; Jimmy H Woo and Master Chuck Cory which is my current teacher, I am a second generation student of this fine art. Most of the posting are asking good question and should be posted. I do not believe it was the intention of San Soo Sifu to take it off line for the lack of critisizing his communication. He may had taken it off line for other may find it boring or just not interested. San Soo Sifu has a lot of insight of the art. Chuck only went throught the ranks of white to black. As the assistant instructor for master Larry Wikel he was called by Jimmy H Woo to start attending the instrcutors class and he would come under Jimmy from that point. Yes Master Cory is and always will be a 1st generation master, never the less what others have posted. The ranking in which had been posted is very acurate all the way to the point of JP and where he had recieved his training from. I had the opprotunity to work with Master King, JP, and he is pretty darn good. Choy Li Fut is a very very distant cousin of San Soo or San Shou for it has been a round since the late or early 1500's - 1600's. CLF has been around since the 1830's according to the material that I have read and what is out there.

D-FENS

04-30-2007, 08:59 PM

What's the deal with this style? Some swear by its effectiveness, others say it's a fake b4stardization of 5 Family style. Is the history legit? Was there actually a Kwan Yin Monestary? Just interested in the gen. consensus here.

I ask because a San Soo studio just opened up in my neighborhood, and I'm thinkin about going down to drill with them. I do Five Family, so fake or not it might be a good way to get some apps in.

opinions anyone?

:confused:

Eddie

05-01-2007, 09:13 AM

they say its Choy Lay Fut mixed with other stuff. I think they call it Tsai li ho foh quan, which is just the mandarin for CLF (ho foh is just another incarnation of buddha).

D-FENS

05-03-2007, 02:02 AM

I went and observed a class today, and I gotta say I wasn't impressed. Most of the stuff I saw being practiced looked like basic krotty, but with more emphasis on weapons training (one guy was doing some type of freestyle staff form that looked halfway decent). I'm probably gonna hold off on this one, but we'll see what happens.

snakeeel

05-29-2007, 12:02 PM

I can only comment on the history of San Soo since Jimmy Woo came to the US. Yes it's real and yes it's deadly. It is a combat style and as one poster commented in the beginning it looks very basic. Power against power. As in all styles the techniques become more complicated and more fluid as one progresses.

I took this style for 4 years in the early 70's from one of Jimmy's black belts and as taught, it is not for the faint of heart...every technique is meant to end a fight in seconds...break, maim or kill. I cannot comment on how it's taught today since we live in a world that is much more PC than it was in 1971.

If you are looking for self-protection then you might consider this style. if you are looking at a sport style, this would not be one I would suggest.

Knifefighter

05-29-2007, 01:44 PM

If you are looking for self-protection then you might consider this style. i

Hopefully, you won't have to use it to protect yourself from a 230 lb. MMA/BJJ fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

This was a no rules/anything goes challenge match held several years ago in Los Angeles. A San Soo black belt instructor had offered to fight anyone of any style with no rules. He had his arm broken by BJJ purple belt John Marsh.

After the fight, other San Soo instructors were saying that his San Soo was not the real deal, so he offered $5,000 to any other San Soo stylist who could step up and beat Marsh. There were no takers from the San Soo community.

SoCo KungFu

05-30-2007, 04:13 AM

The MMA/BJJ part of that comment isn't needed. Its got nothing to do with what style Marsh did. Its got everything to do with the fact that @$$ clown in a frog suit had no business fighting my friend's little sister let alone a 230 some odd lbs. fighter.

That guy's one leg has more meat that the San Soo guys everything. Skill being equal, the bigger guy is going to win 9 times out of 10. That's just how it is. And in this case, it was worse because skill was obviously not equal.

The fight was over before it began. That guy just stood there smiling while the MMA guy was in fighting posture long before the fight began. Never once did the San Soo guy raise his hands to prepare to defend a strike, so its not so surprising that he didn't even fathom the fact that he could be taken to the ground.

If you're going to find a clip, at least use all that web fu you got with you're 3000 something posts to find some sort of interesting clip with well...actually 2 fighters. This one was like letting loose a pit bull on a chi hua hua.

sanjuro_ronin

05-30-2007, 05:20 AM

Jerry Peterson's SCARS system is based on San Soo, take that for what its worth.

sanjuro_ronin

05-30-2007, 05:21 AM

Hopefully, you won't have to use it to protect yourself from a 230 lb. MMA/BJJ fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

This was a no rules/anything goes challenge match held several years ago in Los Angeles. A San Soo black belt instructor had offered to fight anyone of any style with no rules. He had his arm broken by BJJ purple belt John Marsh.

After the fight, other San Soo instructors were saying that his San Soo was not the real deal, so he offered $5,000 to any other San Soo stylist who could step up and beat Marsh. There were no takers from the San Soo community.

I remember that...did we ever find out that "kung fu" guys name ??

Baghwan

05-30-2007, 09:47 AM

Not really fair to take one person and hang the reputation of an entire art on his performance. Quite frankly, Marsh is an accomplished professional fighter and I dare say that any martial artist will NEVER beat a professional fighter. Style had nothing to do with the facts.

Personally, it didn't seem like that bright of an idea to begin with. Any "Master" of any style so braggard as to offer a challenge like that isn't really a master. Somewhere along the lesson plan he must have missed the part about humility. Fortunately Mr. Marsh was there to remind him.

San Soo has been *******ized (SCARS, SAFTA, etc.) just as many other systems have. There are many fine people and excellent practitioners that just don't participate in such nonsense. That doesn't mean San Soo is terrible.

Rickson Gracie once said that the most dangerous fighters he had ever seen have never stepped into the ring/cage. That's just not what they want from what they do.

sanjuro_ronin

05-30-2007, 09:55 AM

Steeeve

05-30-2007, 04:09 PM

HaHaha

No Rule ....I dont saw biting(the jugular will be good) ,hair pulling .....knife or weapons

Knifefighter

05-30-2007, 04:51 PM

The MMA/BJJ part of that comment isn't needed. Its got nothing to do with what style Marsh did.
It had everything to do with the fact that the San Soo guy never sparred or fought because his techniques were "too deadly" to do for real. He, the other instructors at the school, and the student had no idea how good or bad they were because they never went full contact.

Just as important was the fact that he did no grappling and had no clue how to defend against a grappler.

Anybody at any school that doesn't do full contact (including grappling) would end up in the exact same situation.

That guy's one leg has more meat that the San Soo guys everything.
Back in those days (when John was a purple belt), Royce used to beat him regularly and Royce was just as skinny as that guy.

Vilmore

05-30-2007, 05:15 PM

yeah if it was no rules he should have at least brought an axe :)

SoCo KungFu

05-30-2007, 07:21 PM

It had everything to do with the fact that the San Soo guy never sparred or fought because his techniques were "too deadly" to do for real. He, the other instructors at the school, and the student had no idea how good or bad they were because they never went full contact.

Just as important was the fact that he did no grappling and had no clue how to defend against a grappler.

Anybody at any school that doesn't do full contact (including grappling) would end up in the exact same situation.

Back in those days (when John was a purple belt), Royce used to beat him regularly and Royce was just as skinny as that guy.

Nothing you said changes the points I made. It still has nothing to do with the fact that it was MMA vs. San Soo. It could have just as easily been a wrestler vs. boxer or MT vs. TKD or any other one art vs another. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters was that it was one fighter (physically conditioned, experienced and prepared) vs. another fighter (if you can call him that which was unconditioned, inexperienced and ill-prepared).

I agree with the fact the San Soo guy was a chump, but that doesn't mean anything about the system. Every martial art in practice has its cream of the crop and also that sludgy stuff that gets settled to the bottom of the barrel. No style, art or whatever is immune to this. Not even BJJ or MMA. I can point you to plenty of MMA schools which are just as McDojo as any TMA school regardless of style. Greed doesn't require a black belt.

As for his ability to defend. He didn't have the skill to defend period; striking, grappling or otherwise. So again what style he or Marsh profess means absolutely nothing.

I'll agree, 90% of the martial artists in America have absolutely no idea how to properly train for a fight. And I'll even go far enough to say that at this time, a lot of the MMA groups are well ahead of the average school. But the system of proliferation in this country is as such that as we speak a lot of places claiming MMA or BJJ are falling into that same category. Anyways, the point is this fight was a simple case of one fighter which was prepared vs another that wasn't. Simple as that. Style makes no difference.

Now as for the Gracie comment...

Did you miss that part of my paragraph were I said skill being equal? This is one of those cases which MMA/BJJ guys are just as guilty of master idolization as any other TMA. Everybody says Gracies can do this Gracies can do that...

Guess what? BIG DEAL!! Its not a surprise in anyway. You know why? Cuz grandpa Gracie had those guys doing arm bars and chokes since they were in diapers. The Gracies are incredible fighters. But its not because BJJ is so superior or that they are somehow superhuman. Its simple experience. Those guys had more fighting experience by the time they were 20 than most fighters in their 30s. They are in that group of rare people that do not fall into the youth vs. experience battle because they started so young, they had (and as for the up and coming gracies..have) both. To lump and entire style into that is just as rediculous as the TCMA guys claiming so and so style this because they have master that...

Still, skill being equal...the big guy will win 9 times out of 10. The Gracies, there aren't too many people that have that skill level around now are there?

Now I'm not disagreeing with you in your statements. But you need to look at all the facts. The style doesn't make the fighter. Its the competency of the teacher, the realism of the training and the drive of the fighter in question. And the Gracie family is not a group of average martial artists. That family is a legacy in MA regardless of style. Don't trivialize the blood, sweat, time and broken bones those guys have suffered to get to that point by placing a broad group of people on those shoulders. With the way they train, they could be doing tai chi and they'd still be kicking @$$.

street_fighter

05-30-2007, 08:00 PM

It could have just as easily been a wrestler vs. boxer or MT vs. TKD or any other one art vs another. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters was that it was one fighter (physically conditioned, experienced and prepared) vs. another fighter (if you can call him that which was unconditioned, inexperienced and ill-prepared).

And here in lies the problem. The general consensus and main argument against TMA is that it PRODUCES fighters just like him (unconditioned, inexperienced, and ill-prepared) time and again. You reach a point when you have to take a closer look at the training methods that the system encourages regularly. Its not ALL about the individual. IMO, kung fu across the board is at fault for hanging on to these archaic training practices and hiding behind "tradition" in favour of evolution. That said, its easy enough to correct. "If you want to fight, you have to train like a fighter."

SoCo KungFu

05-30-2007, 08:55 PM

And here in lies the problem. The general consensus and main argument against TMA is that it PRODUCES fighters just like him (unconditioned, inexperienced, and ill-prepared) time and again. You reach a point when you have to take a closer look at the training methods that the system encourages regularly. Its not ALL about the individual. IMO, kung fu across the board is at fault for hanging on to these archaic training practices and hiding behind "tradition" in favour of evolution. That said, its easy enough to correct. "If you want to fight, you have to train like a fighter."

See, what you are saying though isn't exactly accurate. Its not wrong, but its just that its another blanket statement...and those just aren't adequate. Its funny really, Americans hold more onto this "tradition" that even any Chinaman I've met. Maybe its just because I've had the fortune of living in Asia for a little while. Granted I was in Okinawa but even there I met some Chinese immigrants. And here in the states, as corny as it sounds...working in the Chinese restaurants haha.

You know, one guy I used to work with...he used to tell me that suit all the kung fu guys wear...he used to laugh when he would see an American walk around in them. I asked him why...he's like..."That's underwear."

As far as archaic traditions go. I know that popularised kung fu is watered down ballet. That's obvious and I'm not arguing that. The reason that these traditions are being held so tightly though isn't just a fear or reluctance of evolution. Its really not so deep. Its really just money in a lot of cases. I can think of a couple Chinese teachers that didn't even want to teach kung fu. They just wanted to come to the states and live the good life. Fry some rice and go fishing, honestly. But the restaurant failed and they realised they could make more money off some ignorant Americans wanting the Miyagi experience. They throw up some Buddha statues and say a few mantras.

The thing is that most MA schools in America survive by catering to the non-combatants. This is mostly kids. Soccer moms want to pawn their children off for a couple hours of piece and hope they'll learn some "kung fu favors pure heart" crap and they don't have to spank their kids into good behavior day after day. That or people just want to exercise for an hour or so a couple days a week. These are the things which keep kung fu stagnant. The art as a form of combat just isn't a major intent in America. And now half the people that want to fight don't realise they can't because they don't know better. It kinda goes into what my sifu always says, "What's tradition? Tradition is only what some guys teacher tells him is traditional."

Anyways now I'm just talking in jumbled nonsense. But let me put it like this. A buddy of mine (again from a Chinese restaurant) one day finally came to work out with me. He was from Taiwan. Now if you don't know, men in Taiwan are required to spend a couple years in military service...similar systems are in Korea and Germany for example. He learned his kung fu from his time in the military. That guy had some crazy skills. And his training as he described it, was really quite comparible to what you would say modern training. It had the typical exercise regime (weight lifting, running, etc.) The technical work would range from a group instruction (ie. working a new technique in a controlled somewhat compliant fashion). But after a few basic skills they pretty much went into live action sparring situations. They didn't hold horse stances for hours. They didn't really practice forms. Training was pretty cut and dry. Save for some really off the wall stuff that is really worst case scenario crap....like getting up from being hit my a car and having to fight back to a gun or something weird like that.

Similar thing in my time in Okinawa. Most of the time in class we were either practicing a new technique on each other or sparring. I would say 95% of the time my class session involved me trying to do something to a partner or my sensei. The other 5% was our warm-ups. I will say the kenpo classes tended to have more sparring than the Aikido class.

I'm sorry I went on such a tangent. Its just that this stranglehold on the "archaic" traditions, is something I personally have really only experienced here in America. Not to say that things aren't going weird in China with the whole Wushu thing though. But that the teachers that want to teach fighting, teach fighting...at least the ones I've met.

Its frustrating really. I really do enjoy the fighting aspect of kung fu. Now though that I'm back down in Florida. The old kung fu school closed down. My sifu sold it to one of the Tae Kwon Do students after he opened his accupuncture clinic, actually a married couple. Who happened to be swingers and the wife broke one of their swinger rules and the school was ruined in the divorce....she closed down the school without notifying any of the students and we had to threaten lawsuit just to get our crap out of the building. Now there is no one that wants to train fighting here. Man I wish I knew how my Hung Gar sifu in SC managed to get em fired up for fighting. That is the only school I've been to in America where everyone man or woman was enthuesiastic about mixing it up. I'd spend maybe 2 days out of a month on forms. And that was simply because it gave something to practice on my own. But in class, pretty much all we did was physical conditioning and then fighting and it was great.

I never had this problem when I was in Asia =( Even when I wasn't in class I could usually go to the base gym and find a Navy Seal or someone to mix it up with.

SoCo KungFu

05-30-2007, 09:03 PM

I guess what I wanted to say was that I know a lot of former Sifus that wanted to teach the real stuff. They wanted to train fighters and they wanted to practice their own fighting skills as well. But a lot of em got frustrated and closed shop because too many students would leave when things got rough. So is it just the kung fu that's at fault? Or does a lot of the resistance come from the students that don't want to make contact? I don't think its fair to say that Kung Fu as an art is entirely at fault. When a customer comes into a kwoon they aren't really looking for a UFC workout. Most of the time, they want to wear a uniform and smell incense. They want some cheesy hong kong movie music playing in the background. And most of em would go all class without looking at another person let alone sparring if they could, cuz they just spent all day dealing with other people at work.

Anyways, its not just kung fu. Every MA has this issue here whether its TCMA, Karate, TKD or MMA. I could link any of those to McDojo sites but I don't really care to start internet beef so I'm not going to do that. I'm just really fed up with MA in America in general.

Baghwan

05-31-2007, 10:50 AM

Knifefighter wrote:

It had everything to do with the fact that the San Soo guy never sparred or fought because his techniques were "too deadly" to do for real. He, the other instructors at the school, and the student had no idea how good or bad they were because they never went full contact.

You make a great point - but that is specific to his school, not the Art of San Soo. Really the only exposure there is to San Soo is that abortion of a "fight". That is because the majority of the practitioners do their thing amongst themselves. And in FACT there is a MMA champion by the name of Kyle Olsen that is primarily a San Soo artist. There are deadly techniques that aren't suited to the cage - similarly there are many people that aren't suited. Those that are, do. Those that aren't interested do not. Check this link for details on Kyle Olsen and San Soo.

http://www.insidekung-fu.com/content/view/54/36/1/0/

Street Fighter wrote:

And here in lies the problem. The general consensus and main argument against TMA is that it PRODUCES fighters just like him (unconditioned, inexperienced, and ill-prepared) time and again. You reach a point when you have to take a closer look at the training methods that the system encourages regularly. Its not ALL about the individual. IMO, kung fu across the board is at fault for hanging on to these archaic training practices and hiding behind "tradition" in favour of evolution. That said, its easy enough to correct. "If you want to fight, you have to train like a fighter."

You are exactly right. This 'beating' confirms both of our perspectives. You mentioned unconditioned, ill-prepared and inexperienced. EXACTLY. However you can find that person in any style and as you said - Kung Fu across the board. I'd like to expand that to include MARTIAL ARTS across the board.

SoCo Kung Fu - I enjoyed reading your stuff. Interesting.

Steeeve

06-02-2007, 04:10 PM

Hey guys

You forgot Kathy Long ....She came from San soo kung fu ....very good in kickboxing in the 80....

Kung fu san soo of GM Woo in the ealier years(the old method) was for street fighting with Frank Woosley .....He give a method ....the Ah soo ,fut ga ,Choy li ho ,dapga and num pi
each one teach you some lessons....of techniques ,and principles .....now some teach different call it Tsoi li ho fut ga but its the same different calls

Kung fu san soo is not traditionnal CLF or lama pai(hop gar or Tibetan White crane ....but look like ....

Steeve

ZhenShanRen

06-11-2007, 11:38 AM

This post is wrong on so many levels.

I usually have no reason to repsond to the numerous ignorant ramblings on the internet nor do i feel the need to defend San Soo. However i can't let this slip.

This sounds like "My brother can beat up your brother."

Listen if you are trying to show how this MMA 230 pound Athlete has more fighting experience than this obviously poor example of a San Soo practitioner then you don't need to say anything. If you are saying that every MMA guy is better than every San Soo guy, you are moron holed up behind your safe little computer.

There are numerous examples of BJJ guys losing in the ring including the Gracies. Namely against Sakuraba "The Gracie Hunter" in Pride. He didn't train in Ju ju jitsu, he trained in catch wrestling. He broke Ryan and Renzo's arms in the process. And there is Matt Hughes that beat Royce. Countless other BJJ black belts that have lost to other Martial arts namely and most recently Kung Fu San Soo cage fighter Kyle Olsen, just to name one. He became the world champion in King of the Cage.

To answer the original person who asked about San Soo. There are good and bad instructors in every art. If you want to know how it fares in the street, you can interview most instructors about thier extensive street expreience. I have trained with Master Chris McCune, Master Dave Hopkins, Master George Kosty etc... all have plenty of street experience.

In fact Hopkins not only has trained with John Machado for years i think he has his brown or black and has has won grappling tournaments all the way up the ranks. In addition his san soo black belts have done the same. One in particular competed in the Machado open in vegas and won several times even against Machado's own students. Eventually he won the whole thing. He beat them at thier own game PLUS he had his own game down. Who do you think has the advantage? Huh?

Anyway, these are two different arts for two different purposes. You don't train for going to the front line in Iraq the same way you would train a local cop. You don't train a guy to fight multiple opponents the same way as one on one. No one tells you that you are about the confront a knife wielding thug or a gun carrying car jacker or a rapist. However you have months to prepare for a fight with coaches, steroids and the ability to tap. The street doesn't allow you to tap. Matchfighting and self defense are two different things. Frank Shamrock was interviewd recently on the dynamic Jiu Jitsu website recently as was asked, "How is what you do different than street fighting?" he replied," .... What we do is totally different than for the street. If i wanted to practice for self defense i would knee him to the groin, thumb the eye, run away etc..."

Myamato Musashi stated, "You fight as to how you train." So if you only train for sprt you will not automatically become lethal.

I will admit that most san soo guys are not what they used to be. They rest on the name of Jimmy H. Wo and his legend. This is a man that was an enforcer by the age of 16 and fought in true NO RULES Lie Tai matches. Combined with his street experience, he had over 1000 fights.

He even had a long standing open that stated "Place any hold on me and i can escape. If not i pay you $500." People came from all over the world and he never lost the challenge.

The point is that the art chooses you not the other way around. If you want to compete have lots of time on you hands, you should enter MMa over Karate tournamants. They are more realistic. But if you want to learn street smarts for the "AVERAGE GUY", do it right and don't square up with someone. You telegraph that you are a fighter. You have to be an actor. This is not a competition. Survive! That could mean running away. It could mean using a knife or a gun! It could mean getting your buddies to help! But it certainly doesn't mean posting a public challenge and fighting a 230 pound wildabeast!

Where was the weapons???? But you said no rules ****it!!!!

So to the guy with original question about san soo, as Harvy Katell in Pulp Fiction said, "Pretty Please. With sugar on top..." try out san soo you might like it.

Hopefully, you won't have to use it to protect yourself from a 230 lb. MMA/BJJ fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

This was a no rules/anything goes challenge match held several years ago in Los Angeles. A San Soo black belt instructor had offered to fight anyone of any style with no rules. He had his arm broken by BJJ purple belt John Marsh.

After the fight, other San Soo instructors were saying that his San Soo was not the real deal, so he offered $5,000 to any other San Soo stylist who could step up and beat Marsh. There were no takers from the San Soo community.

SevenStar

06-11-2007, 12:15 PM

Hey guys

You forgot Kathy Long ....She came from San soo kung fu ....very good in kickboxing in the 80....

she also has black belts in aikido, some style of karate (shorin ryu, I think), jujutsu and several years of boxing.

Lama Pai Sifu

06-11-2007, 05:43 PM

:rolleyes:
This post is wrong on so many levels.

I will admit that most san soo guys are not what they used to be. They rest on the name of Jimmy H. Wo and his legend. This is a man that was an enforcer by the age of 16 and fought in true NO RULES Lie Tai matches. Combined with his street experience, he had over 1000 fights.

He even had a long standing open that stated "Place any hold on me and i can escape. If not i pay you $500." People came from all over the world and he never lost the challenge.

So you're telling me, that he fought once a day, for about three years straight, or ever other day for about 6 years, or 3 times a week for about 10 years, or 2 times per week for about 17 years, or once per week for about 36 years....uh, you get the picture, right? 1000 fights? No, not impossible, but NOT LIKELY BY ANY MEANS.

And the grappling thing? I'd like to see him put in a good solid triange and get out!

I don't know if Jimmy Woo was any good or not, but people always take things away from people, when they come up with these ridiculous claims. Did you see 1000 fights of his? 100? Right....so just leave it to: he had he rep of being a good fighter and had many street and challenge matches.

When you write 1000 fights, people will automatically think you are full of sh1t.

No disrespect towards Jimmy H. Woo, just a little friendly advice. :)

Steeeve

06-11-2007, 07:10 PM

:D:D:D Agree with Lama pai Sifu here

ZhenShanRen

06-11-2007, 07:45 PM

"You strain at a nat and swallow a camel"

You make a friendly and valid point. However allow me to retort.

FYI... I don;t know how many BJJ guys that are around 30 to 40 years old that say that they have 300, 400 or five hundred fights. All claim to be undefeated. Including the gracies. I know for a fact both latino culture and Chinese culture both like showboating and boasting. But call a spade a spade my friend. If you challenge what a man said that had trained since he was 4 years old, then you have to call out on the floor these kumite and vale tudo fighters and so on. If you think about it then its not so far fetched.

We are both here because of a passion for the fighting arts not to kill eachother and insult eachother. In reality if you fight all the time you miss the point of training in the arts altogether.

Peace.

:rolleyes:

So you're telling me, that he fought once a day, for about three years straight, or ever other day for about 6 years, or 3 times a week for about 10 years, or 2 times per week for about 17 years, or once per week for about 36 years....uh, you get the picture, right? 1000 fights? No, not impossible, but NOT LIKELY BY ANY MEANS.

And the grappling thing? I'd like to see him put in a good solid triange and get out!

I don't know if Jimmy Woo was any good or not, but people always take things away from people, when they come up with these ridiculous claims. Did you see 1000 fights of his? 100? Right....so just leave it to: he had he rep of being a good fighter and had many street and challenge matches.

When you write 1000 fights, people will automatically think you are full of sh1t.

No disrespect towards Jimmy H. Woo, just a little friendly advice. :)

ZhenShanRen

06-11-2007, 08:33 PM

Oh and by the way. It is public knowledge that Maeda, the man who brought Ju Jitsu to Brazil, the Gracies, claimed over 1000 fights. There are few others that can make such a claim. Woo is one of them. He grew up in China when it was at civil war and southern china was ruled by warlords, of which his family was part of. Enforcement, security and fighting was his job. It was simply a part of everyday life. Considering a street confrontation takes 5 second to 1 minute, that leaves plenty of time for a 80 something year old gongfu fighter to prove himself before young bucks like us.

Go type that into your calculator.

Also on the issue of the triangle choke, you could have said that is pretty amazing or what a great Master he was but instead you decided to challenge without knowledge, which i can see you don't have a lot of. Sounds like you must have attended one of the liberal left wing pro communist universities out their in New York that tell you to "Question Everything." In the process you simply have failed to learn anything. It shows in your limited knowlwedge. Actually i am not blaming you or attacking you, i think this mentality is very damaging to a civilized society. I blame marxism and the communist movement. I am not joking by the way.

Point is, the gracies didn't invent the triangle choke, niether did the Japanese. These grappling arts go back thousands of years ago in China and mesopatamian wrestling. This is supported by plenty of proof. And the challege was world wide and long standing and the whole martial arts community knew of it and his success at it. Ju jitsu, aikido judo kung fu etc.. they all came. I'm sure the triangle was used in all those years. And by the way, there is an escape for the triangle. Haven't you grappled???

Interesting i see that you say that you have trained in Kung Fu and haven;t heard of Jiimy H. Woo??? How is that possible?

Anyway, i am only debating with you. Don't get offended by my brash responses. I just feel the need to give credit where credit is due and i don;t want to argue.

Again... peace.

:rolleyes:

So you're telling me, that he fought once a day, for about three years straight, or ever other day for about 6 years, or 3 times a week for about 10 years, or 2 times per week for about 17 years, or once per week for about 36 years....uh, you get the picture, right? 1000 fights? No, not impossible, but NOT LIKELY BY ANY MEANS.

And the grappling thing? I'd like to see him put in a good solid triange and get out!

I don't know if Jimmy Woo was any good or not, but people always take things away from people, when they come up with these ridiculous claims. Did you see 1000 fights of his? 100? Right....so just leave it to: he had he rep of being a good fighter and had many street and challenge matches.

When you write 1000 fights, people will automatically think you are full of sh1t.

No disrespect towards Jimmy H. Woo, just a little friendly advice. :)

djcaldwell

06-11-2007, 08:58 PM

Interesting i see that you say that you have trained in Kung Fu and haven;t heard of Jiimy H. Woo??? How is that possible?

Not for nothing but I never heard of him either...so unless you know Jimmy Woo you don't know Kung fu? Very silly...

lkfmdc

06-11-2007, 09:09 PM

you haven't heard of Jimmy Woo?

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo who?

Woo not who!

Woo who?

Nothing to cry about!

Vilmore

06-12-2007, 02:30 AM

Jimmy woo who?

sanjuro_ronin

06-12-2007, 05:02 AM

I think you guys ( and those making the claims) are confusing MATCHES with fights.

heck if I count all my matches and fights I have had in my almost 30 years, it would be the hundreds probably too.

Means Richard-all.

ZhenShanRen

06-12-2007, 08:51 AM

:cool:alright alright point taken.

i'm sure there are many sifus i have never heard of either. its just that he was one of the first to teach non-chinese in 1958 before bruce or ark wong. Also he was ranked in the top three most influential martial artist in the 20th century by black belt magazine.

just saying you should know more about him and what san soo is.

He would say to his students that in the past only the top students under a teacher would be chosen to learn the combat application (san soo) of thier art, that applies to any gongfu system. He caught a lot of flack in the chinese community for breaking that tradition and teaching everyone san soo right away and in addition teaching us white devils.

People wonder why and how BJJ is different than others. Well the system that was brought to brazil by Meada was a system that practiced a rare form that incorporated scenario based non-choreographed techniques, i believe they called it randori, rather than only lesson techniques and then calling it a day. San Soo is practiced in the same manner. In reality it can be adapted to any system of gongfu, but there does have to be some relevance.

you haven't heard of Jimmy Woo?

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo who?

Woo not who!

Woo who?

Nothing to cry about!

specialed

06-12-2007, 09:01 AM

you haven't heard of Jimmy Woo?

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo

Jimmy who?

Jimmy Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo who?

Woo not who!

Woo who?

Nothing to cry about!

i'll bet there are a few who would go apesh*t if the same thing was said about thier sifu.:rolleyes:

lkfmdc

06-12-2007, 09:28 AM

he was ranked in the top three most influential martial artist in the 20th century by black belt magazine.

Just more evidence how shallow and meaningless the American martial arts press is....

Jimmy Woo one of the three most influential martial artists in the 20th century?

Blah hah hah

Did he revolutionize the martial arts by introducing randori, give birth to four arts and create an Olympic sport (like Kano did)?

Did he train an entire generation of ambassodors of Chinese martial arts like Wu Bin did?

Did he establish a fighting program for the entire nation of China like Xia Bahua did?

Did he establish a new sport that is taking both the martial arts world and the mainstream by storm like Rorion Gracie did?

Heck, was he even a decorated military verteran with numerous DOCUMENTED matches like Chan Tai San was?

I'm sorry, I know indeed who and what Jimmy Woo was about. Does not impress me

Lama Pai Sifu

06-12-2007, 10:09 AM

Duh, what about Joon Rhee? I'm no fan of TKD, but THIS guy is credited with bringing TKD to this country! Read about this guy and you might easily put him in the top three...

...And I never said I never heard of Woo, I just said I didn't know much about him.

lkfmdc

06-12-2007, 10:39 AM

OH, the list could go on and on

Choi Hong Hee, founded "Taekwondo" in Korea...

YOng Shul Choi, his teachings gave birth to Hapkido, Yu Sool, Hwarang Do and Kuk Sool Wan

oh, Mas Oyama, founded the most popular style of Karate in the world right now, his students gave birth to K-1, and kickboxing in both Japan and Holland

Jon Blumming pretty much gave birth to all martial arts in Holland

Lots of guys who are clearly more influential than Jimmy Woo!

cjurakpt

06-12-2007, 12:00 PM

if to talk about large-scale impact, I think Gichin Funakoshi might be worthy of mention... also Bruce Lee, and heck, you could even argue David Carradine, based purely on popular exposure via mass media
and I think Jackie Chan might have had a bit of an impact...

Vilmore

06-12-2007, 12:29 PM

ok I looked it up on wikipedia

"Jimmy Woo is a fictional, Chinese-American secret agent in the Marvel Comics comic-book universe."

j/k

ZhenShanRen

06-12-2007, 07:19 PM

what a moron

Just more evidence how shallow and meaningless the American martial arts press is....

Jimmy Woo one of the three most influential martial artists in the 20th century?

Blah hah hah

Did he revolutionize the martial arts by introducing randori, give birth to four arts and create an Olympic sport (like Kano did)?

Did he train an entire generation of ambassodors of Chinese martial arts like Wu Bin did?

Did he establish a fighting program for the entire nation of China like Xia Bahua did?

Did he establish a new sport that is taking both the martial arts world and the mainstream by storm like Rorion Gracie did?

Heck, was he even a decorated military verteran with numerous DOCUMENTED matches like Chan Tai San was?

I'm sorry, I know indeed who and what Jimmy Woo was about. Does not impress me

lkfmdc

06-12-2007, 07:30 PM

what a moron

the only moron on this thread is YOU if you think that Jimmy (no my REAL name is Chan) "Woo" is one of the three most influential martial artists in the 20th century.

Do you really think he was more influential than

Kano
Funakoshi
Mas Oyama
Wu Bin
Xia Bahua
Choi Hong Hee
Yong Shul Choi
Jon Blumming

If so, PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

and futhermore......

Jimmy told people that "Woo" is pronounced "Chan" in Cantonese :rolleyes: uh, NO.... Woo is in fact "Nhg"....

Jimmy liked to tell people he was a direct descendent of Chan Heung and was actually teaching Choy Lay Fut..... yeah, and I'm president of Afghanistan :rolleyes:

Jimmy was in fact a student of Ed Parker, he did KENPO. There are tons of pics of him in white karate gi doing Kenpo but suddenly he "remembered" that in fact he did kung fu :rolleyes:

San Soo Sifu

06-12-2007, 07:54 PM

The person who had a business relationship, and possibly a student - teacher relationship, with Mr. Ed Parker was James Wing Woo (Jimmy W. Woo); not Jimmy H. Woo. (Historical fact.) If anyone cares to, you can always google it.

lkfmdc

06-12-2007, 07:59 PM

Would a guy named "san soo sifu" have a vested interest in keeping Jimmy Woo's reputation? :rolleyes:

http://www.redshift.com/~mjacobi/j-woo.gif

isn't that your sifu? with a karate uniform on? With a black belt that says "Karate" on it? :rolleyes:

why did his first school have on the window "Karate Kenpo Sudio"? (I know people who were around back then)

tell us, where is the "Kwan Yin temple"?

lkfmdc

06-12-2007, 08:10 PM

doesn't seem hard to find more pics of him in a white gi

http://members.aol.com/swsansoo/Image1.gif

http://www.quanyinmartialarts.com/images/jimmy.jpg

ZhenShanRen

06-13-2007, 07:45 AM

blah blah blah.... blah blah blah blah ...

i thought i said peace. Can't you be civilized. Chill out man.

what are you trying so hard to sell? the other posting was correct. it was jimmy wing woo that studied under parker. I know Jimmy was arrogant and challenged and beat up a lot of people but don;t take it out on me man, or the whole san soo community. The man was messed up from everything he went through what the Japanese and then later the Communists did to his family and country. My wife is Chinese from Indonesia and she talked about the hororrs of what the Japanese did to the people of Indonesia as well as the rest of asia. China was especially horrible.

His real name was Chan siu dek. and i don't claim to know him. but there are hundreds that have verified what he talked about but if you only believe what you see with your own two eyes then that's your problem.

Jimmy wore a karate gi because we do a lot of throwing, grabbing, grappling and so forth and the mandarin tops tore apart too easily. The karate tops actually emulate the monks robes more so then the mandarins as well. In addition in 1958 no one knew what Kung fu was so Jimmy did what most people did and called his organization "Jimmy H. Woo Karate Studios." Then in a few years he changed it to "Karate Kung Fu." Then later Kung Fu San Soo. I'm sure he could have called it anything as he spoke several different dialects of chinese as well as english and spanish.

The original name of the art that he inherited was called Choy Li Ho Fut Hung. A lot of poeple including san soo people are confused about the history but it is clear that Chan Hung came from that village. However the art the chan family practiced, mentioned above, was practiced before Chan Hung was alive. There are numerous historic references of other temples and clans practicing the so called "Southern Family Arts" ling before the Chan family was around as well.

San Soo on the other hand has a history in Taizu San Soo, or First Emperor San Soo, which was developed by the First Emperor of the Song Dynasty. It was practiced at a temple that was dedicated to him called "Lin Guangyin." This is the confusion by some that Jimmy said guan yin temple, as in the boddhisatva.

He developed his own style and lineage, choy li fut. However the Choy Li Ho Fut Hung art manuals were passed to Jimmy after the invading japanese army killed Woo's entire village and family in Canton. He fled china and came to america to live with relatives in LA chinatown.

BTW all those men you mentioned were very influential. It was actually not me that said that about jimmy but Black Belt magazine. Year after year in the early days jimmy barked out challenges at the long beach gatherings as well as other places where hundreds of masters were and he would day, "My Kung Fu is real Kung Fu for the street. Anyone that wants to challenge me can come up right now, my life or yours." This was the standard challenge from the old country. Few if any came. remeber he was well into his forties when he did this. Everyone had thier chance.

the only moron on this thread is YOU if you think that Jimmy (no my REAL name is Chan) "Woo" is one of the three most influential martial artists in the 20th century.

Do you really think he was more influential than

Kano
Funakoshi
Mas Oyama
Wu Bin
Xia Bahua
Choi Hong Hee
Yong Shul Choi
Jon Blumming

If so, PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

and futhermore......

Jimmy told people that "Woo" is pronounced "Chan" in Cantonese :rolleyes: uh, NO.... Woo is in fact "Nhg"....

Jimmy liked to tell people he was a direct descendent of Chan Heung and was actually teaching Choy Lay Fut..... yeah, and I'm president of Afghanistan :rolleyes:

Jimmy was in fact a student of Ed Parker, he did KENPO. There are tons of pics of him in white karate gi doing Kenpo but suddenly he "remembered" that in fact he did kung fu :rolleyes:

lkfmdc

06-13-2007, 11:46 AM

The man was messed up from everything he went through what the Japanese and then later the Communists did to his family and country.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt..... read some of the Chan Tai San thread. It isn't about that......

but there are hundreds that have verified what he talked about

"verified"?

Verified his relationship to Chan Heung? NO
Verified his lineage in Choy Lay Fut? NO
Verified he existance of a "Kwan Yin temple"? NO

Much of what he claimed has not only never been verified, it seems down right questionable.

Jimmy wore a karate gi because we do a lot of throwing, grabbing, grappling and so forth and the mandarin tops tore apart too easily. The karate tops actually emulate the monks robes more so then the mandarins as well.

1. You don't think Ark Wong, Lau Bun et al were doing grabbing, grappling and throwing?

2. Resporting to the "Shaolin Do" excuse (they look like old style mandarin robes) hardly increases your credibility!

Even if the uniform was a "practical" choice, it still doesn't explain why the characters on his belt read "Ken Po Kara Te"?

In addition in 1958 no one knew what Kung fu was so Jimmy did what most people did and called his organization "Jimmy H. Woo Karate Studios."

REfer back to Ark Wong, Lau Bun et al.... who didn't ever call what they did "Karate"

Again, in 1963 the school was called "Karate Kenpo Studio".... Kenpo was hardly a common word in those days, why did you use THAT WORD?

The original name of the art that he inherited was called Choy Li Ho Fut Hung.

Don't you think it's strange that no one outside of Jimmy and his students have ever heard of this style?

San Soo on the other hand has a history in Taizu San Soo, or First Emperor San Soo, which was developed by the First Emperor of the Song Dynasty. It was practiced at a temple that was dedicated to him called "Lin Guangyin." This is the confusion by some that Jimmy said guan yin temple, as in the boddhisatva.

posting stuff like this is just embarassing, please learn some Chinese history and some Chinese language so you can realize how silly you sound

He developed his own style and lineage, choy li fut.

HE did what? Let's look at that again!

He developed his own style and lineage, choy li fut.

Sure he did.....

San Soo Sifu

06-13-2007, 02:22 PM

I just wanted to let you know that there is San Soo (specific) message board at the following URL link:

http://www.americansansoo.com/Forum/index.php

You will have to register first, if you want to post. Of course, you can always lurk as a guest.

If you are not a former, current, or possibly near future, practitioner of Kung-Fu San Soo; you may find the message board somewhat boring because of its focus only on San Soo related topics.

Thank you for your time!

Jim Anestasi

06-13-2007, 04:18 PM

Hello , I thought I might tell you that I meet Jimmy Woo when he came to GM.Ark Wong's store ,This was in the early 60's I think. Jimmy took us to lunch and we had a nice visit. He invited us to his new school's Grand opening in El Monte Ca. Of course master Wong accepted. He had a lot of people there and as I remember he gave a very spirited demo. He had some students to help him. Master Wong seemed to like the demo. When Jimmy came to the store Master Wong took several pictures of the group, I think I still have one of the 3 of us together. Since there was two Jimmy Woo's When ever we talked about we would separate them by where their schools were. Jimmy Woo El Monte and Jimmy Woo No. Hollywood, of Ed Parker fame.

FWIW. Sifu Jim:D

ZhenShanRen

06-14-2007, 07:23 AM

you must have a lot of time on your hands mr or mrs. I don't know cause you wine like a woman.

Let me point out you, that my family is chinese, i have dozens of friends that are from mainland china, one in particular that was the "National Wushu Champion", regional Shuai Jiao champion and was the Dean of Martial arts in Changchun years ago before moving to America. He had learned things from nearly 100 styles across china since he was young.

Anyway we had talked about the destruction of the history of some of the most effective arts, while some of the weakest arts survive simply because of their historical records have survived. When we spoke of the choy li fut and the choy li ho fut hung/ san soo (he pronounced san siu) he stated very clearly that they were not the same art. Choy li fut started with Chan Hung.

And by the way the Lin Guangyin temple was real and was recently unearthed next to a housing project in China. Google it.

Anyway, you do not credit yourself well when you value finding a pedigree chart more important than its effectiveness. That's what i do respect about much of the modern MMA scene is that they don't want to argue about what temple what came from, because in reality it doesn't matter. What matters is how effective it is. An old Chinese saying calls people that pontificate about gongfu like armchair quarterbacks, "Emroidered hands and brocade feet."

The entire LA chinatown community urged Jimmy to demo every year at the New Year festival until he was too old to do it. They did that out of respect, of which i can see none here. And every year he would say the same thing becasue he hated seeing some claim to be Kung Fu masters but were so ineffective they gave kung fu a bad name. He said, "I'm a real Kung Fu Master. My Kung fu is the only Kung Fu made for real street self defense. Anyone that wants to challenge me can come up here right now. My life or yours." He would point into the crowd of people every single year, year after year and no one came up.

Every master in town had thier chance from every school and art, to prove thier art, to prove thier lineage through the real test, match fighting. They didn't take the challenge. Why? I don't know. He wasn't indestructable. He just believed in being real.

And you my friend, are completely unreal.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt..... read some of the Chan Tai San thread. It isn't about that......

"verified"?

Verified his relationship to Chan Heung? NO
Verified his lineage in Choy Lay Fut? NO
Verified he existance of a "Kwan Yin temple"? NO

Much of what he claimed has not only never been verified, it seems down right questionable.

1. You don't think Ark Wong, Lau Bun et al were doing grabbing, grappling and throwing?

2. Resporting to the "Shaolin Do" excuse (they look like old style mandarin robes) hardly increases your credibility!

Even if the uniform was a "practical" choice, it still doesn't explain why the characters on his belt read "Ken Po Kara Te"?

REfer back to Ark Wong, Lau Bun et al.... who didn't ever call what they did "Karate"

Again, in 1963 the school was called "Karate Kenpo Studio".... Kenpo was hardly a common word in those days, why did you use THAT WORD?

Don't you think it's strange that no one outside of Jimmy and his students have ever heard of this style?

posting stuff like this is just embarassing, please learn some Chinese history and some Chinese language so you can realize how silly you sound

HE did what? Let's look at that again!

Sure he did.....

lkfmdc

06-14-2007, 07:54 AM

Let me point out you, that my family is chinese,

Ah, the old "I am Chinese so you must respect me" argument? :rolleyes:

i have dozens of friends that are from mainland china, one in particular that was the "National Wushu Champion",

Everybody claism they were a champion "back home"... care to cite a NAME?

And assuming he was in fact a champion, in WUSHU, ie modern wushu as taught in China, that makes him a performer, hardly a martial arts expert....

Again, other than your un named friends, who has ever heard of "choy li ho fut hung" :rolleyes:

An old Chinese saying calls people that pontificate about gongfu like armchair quarterbacks, "Emroidered hands and brocade feet."

**** you're lazy, it isn't hard to figure out who I am, if you think I'm a pretty forms person, man you are WAY OFF....

The entire LA chinatown community urged Jimmy to demo every year at the New Year festival until he was too old to do it. They did that out of respect, of which i can see none here.

What is there to "respect" here? A guy with a kenpo background who claims he does kung fu (while wearing a karate uniform and a black belt with teh words "Kenpo Karate" on it! Notice you didn't address this issue? hmmmmm)

A "history" that sounds very suspicious and can not be verified

A claim to a style no one has ever heard of

And a ridiculous claim he is one of the three most influential martial artitsts in the 20th century.

And you my friend, are completely unreal.

If that dillusion helps you sleep at night :rolleyes:

Knifefighter

06-14-2007, 08:25 AM

That's what i do respect about much of the modern MMA scene is that they don't want to argue about what temple what came from, because in reality it doesn't matter. What matters is how effective it is.

Every San Soo person I have ever talked to said they didn't train full contact because their stuff was to dangerous to train this way.

Is this the case with all San Soo, or do some San Soo schools train full contact?

If it is the former, then the effectivenss level will be nill across the board.

cjurakpt

06-14-2007, 11:28 AM

hey Dave, check this out (from a San Soo Website):

http://www.sonorasansoo.com/sss_main.html

(it doesn't link directly, you have to got to the "San Soo" option in the main menu and then click on lineage - they also have a tree with Sifu on it)

Chan Tai Shan
We include the late Chan Tai Shan because he was:

1) A practitioner who included Chan Siu Hung's son, Chan Sai Mo, and cousin to Chan Siu Dek, in his own training lineage
2) A tough American practitioner who taught in New York City Chinatown
3) Held by Chinese martial arts historians and the Chinese government, and noted in Inside Kung Fu Magazine, to be one of China's "National Treasures"

Nothing would thrill us more than to see Losifu Chan Siu Dek one day also honored in this way, serving to further legitimize his family art, our art, Kung Fu San Soo.

lkfmdc

06-14-2007, 11:40 AM

Chris,

I don't know if you remember, but after Jimmy Woo passed away we were flooded by requests from San Soo people to get sifu Chan to "approve their ranks" and recognize them as Choy Lay Fut people. It's one of the reasons why I am so familiar with the particulars of this group

Chan Sai Mo is alive and well in Guangdong. I don't remember if Mike met him last trip or was going to meet with him next trip. It'll be hysterical to ask him about his so called "cousin" Jimmy Woo :eek:

I love how for YEARS they never "remembered" this link but now suddenly "TA DA", look, we're Choy Lay Fut people :rolleyes:

In a side, amusing note; Chan Sai Mo's father is Chan SAI Hung, not Chan "siu" Hung..... I know because that's who sifu named me after, ie it's MY NAME :D

hey Dave, check this out (from a San Soo Website):

http://www.sonorasansoo.com/sss_main.html

(it doesn't link directly, you have to got to the "San Soo" option in the main menu and then click on lineage - they also have a tree with Sifu on it)

Chan Tai Shan
We include the late Chan Tai Shan because he was:

1) A practitioner who included Chan Siu Hung's son, Chan Sai Mo, and cousin to Chan Siu Dek, in his own training lineage
2) A tough American practitioner who taught in New York City Chinatown
3) Held by Chinese martial arts historians and the Chinese government, and noted in Inside Kung Fu Magazine, to be one of China's "National Treasures"

Nothing would thrill us more than to see Losifu Chan Siu Dek one day also honored in this way, serving to further legitimize his family art, our art, Kung Fu San Soo.

jit fu

06-14-2007, 11:52 AM

or this...check out the last 3 paragraphs...of the 1st post.
http://www.americansansoo.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=18

lkfmdc

06-14-2007, 12:20 PM

or this...check out the last 3 paragraphs...of the 1st post.
http://www.americansansoo.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=18

you mean.....

"Kung-Fu San Soo (Tsoi Li Hoi Fut Hung Kung-Fu San Soo) is far, far superior to modern day Choy Lee Fut. Modern day Choy Lee Fut is nothing more than people dancing & prancing around doing forms, thinking they know how to fight, when in actuality, the Chinese "Si Gung" hasn't let them into his "inner circle" or "inner chamber" of trusted students (and he probably never will); ERGO (therefore), they haven't been shown real hand to hand combat (and probably never will).

Tsoi Li Hoi Fut Hung Kung-Fu San Soo teaches real hand to hand combat from day one. Modern day Choy Lee Fut teaches pretty forms to win trophies at worthless kung-fu tournaments"

more reason for people to "love" Jimmy's special kids :cool:

ZhenShanRen

06-15-2007, 08:27 AM

if you train with light to medium contact in you technique training in san soo, you are training in the same manner as those that train in MMA, or should i say they are training in the same manner as us. At least that's how my teachers taught me how to train. You really learned how to take a hit with my teachers. No gloves or padding by the way. Just watch how they show the training sessions on Ultimate fighter.

As for my teachers and myself, hundreds of real life applications with literall full contact is what has convinced us.

But in reality you can't know unless you do it. Its like all these guys that say, "I don't know whats the deal with all these grapplers. I won't let them take me down. And if they do i'll just bite 'em." If you know a little on how to defend from one these guys, you are only helping yourself.

Every San Soo person I have ever talked to said they didn't train full contact because their stuff was to dangerous to train this way.

Is this the case with all San Soo, or do some San Soo schools train full contact?

If it is the former, then the effectivenss level will be nill across the board.

Steeeve

06-15-2007, 03:45 PM

Interesting and POSITIVE

but Kung Fu San soo of Jimmy look more like Lama Pai ,Hop gar ,tibetan white crane than CLF .....

from what i saw of the ah soo lessons (or 45 basics ) ....and the others

but less traditionnal ....the back hand for strike or doing the upward mills is the same of Lama with the chin principle (destroy )....and the follow up with one exemple

Just give my opinion

Steeve

Jim Anestasi

06-15-2007, 04:56 PM

About 20 years ago I had the privilege to teach two Students of the San Soo linage, they did not learn from Jimmy Woo But another of his black belts. They had a full curriculum From White belt to black belt. After every class they had full contact ,they wore head gear ,foot gear,padded gloves. They went at it full bore there was always bloody nose's,etc. I forgot to mention that I taught them at there school & enrolled my son he was 8 years old . Our relationship still goes on. I no longer teach any martial arts ,but still train as best as i can.Lots off health problems these days.

As I stated in the San Soo message board is all I know about him. He did not train under GM Wong ,But he came to visit several times.

My 2 cents, Sifu Jim.:D:)

Steeeve

06-18-2007, 01:12 PM

About the Karate Gi and the ranking (belts) and the use of Karate for advertize ...and san soo

its not the only one .......even the Tang shou tao(Hsing I ,Pa kua) School (Taiwan ) of Hung yi Hsiang used the japenese ranking and the Gi ....In the earlier day a lot of kung fu school used the term Karate /Kung fu ...Bussiness brothers:)

Steeve

Jim Anestasi

06-19-2007, 05:42 PM

When I first started training In kung fu I wore street clothes as most of us didn't have any uniforms. As time passed we wore white T shirts with a logo in the center, it was an lion dance in a circle. Most of the students bought regular Gi's. I have some old pictures with some of the the longer students wearing them. GM Wong would close his store & would come up stairs & work out , teach in his reglulalclothes. The only time he would dress up in his full uniform was for some special event, or taking pictures.
I should mention that we also had special pants of a silk looking material,Our sash's
colors would indicate who were the teacher's.

Regards Sifu Jim.:D

tsoilihoi

07-31-2007, 09:57 AM

Hi. My name is Paul Borisoff, I have studied San Soo since 1975 and taught it from 1977...

I witnessed the 3 associations in action and perhaps can bring light on that subject. Also clarify JP Kings rank and his affiliation.

The Jimmy H. Woo association ended when Jimmy H. Woo retired. Members met tuesday eve and saturday afternoons. To be a member you had to take lessons from Sifu Master Jimmy H. Woo. You also were required to purchase school uniforms from him. When be "quit business", he had all sign a paper stating that they would not use his name on advertisements or articles... etc.

Thereafter the International San Soo Association formed offering classes and seminars. A board was elected. Several presidents were elected. Two shows 1985 and 1986 were presented. Many schools participated. I began to sense two agendas at work. The desires of the student body and the desires of the school owners. Sometimes the interests were symbiotic and at time there were tremendous collisions. In particular, how money would be spent.

Jimmy returned to teaching, stating that he was bored and that things needed cleaning up. He taught until his death. The association disbanded.

About a year later, I recall meeting with many at Bob Estrada's Covina studio.
Bernice Woo called Sharon Wikel and asked if we could hold off on the meeting. She felt that it had not been long enough since Jimmy's passing to start business as usual. We laid off.

Bernice began the International San Soo Association and various officials were elected. Many seminars were presented. At some point JP King stepped up to take his rightful lineage. To be frank, the presidency was an elected position and that position was usurped by him. His plans were fairly extensive and many failed to follow. Bernice created the kungfusansoo.com site and resurrected the Jimmy H. Woo Association. This time it was a loose affiliation of persons she trusted.

JP King kept the registered name of IKFSSA but heresay has it that the incorporation has lapsed.

JP King is a Master. At the receipt of that mastership, Sifu Master Jimmy H. Woo became Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo.

San Soo is a vast system mentored by the instructor. Many strong bonds are formed in the school environment. We do not do tournements. As such an association does not serve the same purpose as say one in kenpo or a karate affiliation. Promotion is also a school level event. So the events and meetings were attended but not to the extent seen in systems where the association plays a heavy role in the advancement protocol.

Hope this helps...

Master P.H. Borisoff