Mok Jong

[Rayfield]

Real simple question, if I was to buy a wing chun wooden dummy, is it possible to learn the forms from a book or some type of video?

Ray

[kj]

Originally posted by Rayfield
Real simple question, if I was to buy a wing chun wooden dummy, is it possible to learn the forms from a book or some type of video?

Ray

Simply put: Not really.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[lawrenceofidaho]

Hi Ray,

if you already have some Wing Chun experience under your belt, but haven't yet progressed to the point in the system where your teacher feels you are ready to learn the traditional dummy form, there is a set of (2) one hour tapes by Randy Williams which have a bunch of drills geared for a student at that level.......Randy shows each drill on the dummy, and then how to do it with a partner, or in chi-sau.

You can find those videos auctioned on ebay quite often. They are part of the series he did for "Budo International" (Make sure you don't confuse these with the 2 tape set where he teaches the traditional dummy form).

Maybe buying those first could give you an idea of how much you could get out of having a dummy at this stage in your training, and even if you didn't end up purchasing a "jong", you could still work all of the drills with a partner.......

I don't agree with all of Randy's ideas, but his use of the dummy on those tapes is pretty creative.

-Lawrence

[macaulay]

I agree with kj. It would be like trying to teach yourself to cook by watching Emeril.

It is best to learn the wooden dummy along with the other parts of WC. The reinforce and complement each other.

Find a good WC school and train hard. I admire your drive to learn.

[stuartm]

Hi there,

Videos and books should always be viewed as a complement to your training and an aid to your understanding and development. They are never the starting point.

I searched fro Wing Chun for years and in the midst of my frustration I thought, ' Ill have a go at learning SLT from a book'. When i finally found my first WC teacher and I showed him what Id learnt he just fell about in stitches laughing his head off !!!

Save yourself the same degree of embarassment and seek out a teacher, even if you have to travel far afield.

If you are looking for a good complement to your training then the following are quite useful reference videos on the dummy:

Wooden Man - Sifu Paul O'Neal
Wooden Dummy - Grandmaster Ip Chun

Both of them are in slow motion and show application

Cheers , Stu

[Rayfield]

Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify my question, I dont train in Wing Chun but Mok Jong training seems to be a very important part of the wing chun system. The stlye I train in offers forms on the Mok Jong but its not very critical or stressed alot. We actually have 8 stlyes of Mok Jongs. Its kinda hard to explain but we only learn 2 of the 8. Im not sure how many forms are taught on each Mok Jong to be honest. Anyway, I have considered going to another stlye for various reasons. I just dont want to miss out on that kind of training. Several reasons why Im so interested in the wooden dummies but the 2 main reasons would be: 1) the conditioning and 2) The Mok Jong seems ideal as a workout tool. I have no one close by to train with so it seems logical it would provide great training at home, when I dont have access to other students or any kind of partner.
Ray

[Toby]

Hi Rayfield. I'm a beginner on the dummy form, but:
Originally posted by Rayfield
1) the conditioningI get conditioning from it, but that's not the purpose at all. In fact, I've heard that that's a sign you're doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Rayfield
2) The Mok Jong seems ideal as a workout tool. I have no one close by to train with so it seems logical it would provide great training at home, when I dont have access to other students or any kind of partner.
Ray View it as a static training partner. You don't have to learn the WC wooden dummy form. You can drill your own techniques/combos on it. For example, you might stand in front and step diagonally forward with a pak and a rib strike. The strike hand transitions into a lop and the pak hand transitions into a throat slice or chop. The throat strike transitions into a pak or gum and the lop hand transitions into a face or neck strike. Work the footwork appropriately. Etc. Obviously visualisation plays a big part in this. It's not as effective as a live training partner, but still effective (and fun).

[Tiger_SS]

I have been training for a little less than a year and recently purchased a wooden dummy and some DVDs by sifu Chun Kwok Chow, GM William Cheung and master Ausgustine Fong. I found all these DVDs useful and all for different reasons. I would be lost without class time but the DVDs have definently been a very useful tool. It can be difficult to follow some moves from a DVD but if you track mark one move at a time and let it loop I have found with a keen eye and patience that you can learn alot.
My wooden dummy has also been great for practising drills done in class time when I get home. The extra hours of training on the dummy have definently improved my footwork and speed.

[Rayfield]

Originally posted by Toby
Hi Rayfield. I'm a beginner on the dummy form, but:I get conditioning from it, but that's not the purpose at all. In fact, I've heard that that's a sign you're doing it wrong.

I think I've read that myself. Let me re-phrase that. Maybe not conditioning in the cardio sense but more like palm,knife edge, forearms, feet, etc conditioning. One would think hitting a big wooden log would tend to make things tough. Maybe I'm wrong.


Ray

[Toby]

No, that's the conditioning I meant. I end up with bruises all over my forearms and knife edge. I know up to the third section of the form. I've heard that I shouldn't end up with bruises if I do it right. Maybe that's a by-product of conditioning - less bruising eventually. But I was under the impression that I'm "fighting" the dummy too much. Oh well, my nature is force against force being a beginner and relatively strong.

[Vyvial]

the dummy isn't really that important to wing chun training. all it does is refine your techniques and make them look pretty. No new techniques are introduced in the form,, you use what you have already learned on the dummy.

training wing chun with a wing chun partner is how you get wing chun skills.

without the right skills you are just beating on a block of wood and keep in mind that dummy is still just a dummy.

[foolinthedeck]

remember the zen story:
a young man goes to a great swordmaster and begs him to teach him, how many years before i will be a master he asks? 10 years says the master. what if i train twice as hard he asks? 20 years says the master. what if i train non stop he asks? 40 years says the master...

build the foundation before the flag pole on top... work hard with a good teacher, if the dummy comes at some point fine..

[stuartm]

Hi Foolin,

Id agree with you there mate, the dummy in one sense is just like the forms - you never truly learn them, as new paths and ideas constantly arise out of repeated prcatice and thought.

One point which i think is important though is that the dummy should not be held back from practitioners. It is after all only a tool for practice.

Regards, Stu

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Vyvial
the dummy isn't really that important to wing chun training. all it does is refine your techniques and make them look pretty. No new techniques are introduced in the form,, you use what you have already learned on the dummy.
I categorically disagree with these statements.

To the thread starter... there is no point learning just the wc dummy, if you don't do the system. This doesn't mean of course, that it isn't a useful training aid in some respects.