Xinjiang: China's Wild West

[jun_erh]

article (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99sep/9909wildchina.htm)

I'd been wanting to learn about this region. This is a long but great article. It's weird to think there are cities in there.

[omarthefish]

I spent about a week roaming through there intending to go to Kashkal. Nvern made it. I recieved so many **** warnings from well meaning friends about the dangers of the region I felt compelled to go with a guide. Big mistake. I ended up spending WAY to much time visiting my buddies family membes in the capital of Xinjiang, Ouromoqi and not nearly enough time trying to get to Kashkal. I was on spring break from school and there is only a train from Ouromiqi to Xi'an about once a week. We eventually made it as far as Kwarle which included about a 10 hour bus ride along the edge of the Taklamakan dessert and got me into fairly Turkick teriitory.

The problem was that although my 'guide' was born in Xinjiang he was Han Chinese. I'm not sure I could have made the trip solo at the time anyways though. My language skills hadn't developed enough yet. Anyways, I didn't realize at the time that the following 2 things are true about Xingjiang:

1. There IS a high rate of violent crime, separatist violence etc. In fact the reason I didn't make it to Kashkal was because some Ougiers attacked a Han policeman and the army had been moved in to the area to keep the peace.

2. The violence is directed at Han Chinese and they are terrifically friendly towards Americans. They are NOT the same kind of muslims we are at war with in the middle east and in Afghanistan. DIfferent sect, different politics.

Next time I'm going alone.

[Merryprankster]

They are NOT the same kind of muslims we are at war with in the middle east and in Afghanistan. DIfferent sect, different politics.

Omar, this totally depends.

[Shaolinlueb]

thats a cool article. thanks for the good read.

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


Omar, this totally depends.

You want to expand on that a bit?

I'm it does 'depend'. It's not an entirely ****geneous region. There's a lot of different minorities. I met Ouigers, Uzbeks, Turks, Pakistanis and others. But the predominant group was Ouiger. There's a huge Ouiger population here in Xi'an too for some reason. In fact, Xi'an is on of the major muslim centers in China. So I don't have much in the way of academic research for this. I'm speaking from personal experience. I have gone out and got drunk with these guys. I eat at their resaurants all the time and I sit outside and shoot the breeze with them while they roast the little lamb skewers that everone eats around here. There's a couple who drift in and out of the gymn where I go and when I was up in Xingjiang by Han friend to me to see a Ouiger friend of his who ran a night club and he sent me a Ouiger girl on the house :confused: :confused: :confused: . . . :D

I also noticed the ****her southwest you go the more muslim it gets. The capital is pretty much like most other Chinese big cities.

Kwarle was more interesting.

I'm not denying it depends. But I've found them to be, on the whole, more forthright and honestly friendly than most Han Chinese. I've also found that in private they will ocassionally tell you about some of the things the govt. is doing to them and the kind of predjudice they suffer from.

Just some views from someone who was interested enough in the subject to go there and see for myself.

[WanderingMonk]

It depends, b/c you run the risk of meeting the hard-core fundamentalists further you go.

As China tried to cultivate more friendly relations with central asian and middle east countries, it has allowed uiger and others to go study islam aboard in these countries. As of consequence, some of them come back after being exposed to wahabism and fundamentalist ideology. As a side note, I read articles in which uiger were considered soft by their arabs fundamentalists brothers for not being more active in the resistence of chinese rules.

There are some who feel their manhood is challenge and joins in and there are other who buys into wahabi ideology and join in. they culitvated their ties with wahabis and used it to establish armed resistence movements (not all armed resistence are wahabi related, but certainly some are).

most uiger will treat Americans nice because a lot of them believe US can be their friends in rolling back the chinese government. so, you can trust these folks.

but, don't say people didn't warn you if you end up meeting the hard core fundamentalists. watch your back.

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by WanderingMonk
most uiger will treat Americans nice because a lot of them believe US can be their friends in rolling back the chinese government. so, you can trust these folks.

but, don't say people didn't warn you if you end up meeting the hard core fundamentalists. watch your back. '

That's the part that I kind of picked up on.

But btw, you speak pretty authoritatively. Where are you getting this? . . .

I mean it all makes sense and squares with what I've learned but I don't meet to many people with any direct experience with these guys so . .. .?

edit:

p.s. It doesn't hurt that my name is Omar. It's a pretty common name among Ouigers. It's on my passport and gives the impression that I am a muslim. In fact, sometimes the local Han Chinese mistake me for a Ouiger. lol.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by omarthefish


sit outside and shoot the breeze with them while they roast the little lamb skewers that everone eats around here.

Oh, man! I miss those! Cao Yan Ro (or something like that?)

[sean_stonehart]

I've been to the Xinjiang AIrport for about 45 minutes going between Xian & Lhasa...

Kinda desolate & not the place to have car trouble!! :D

[Ray Pina]

There's a good book, Red Dust or Red Sand about a Chinese photographer sick of the day-to-day and sets out on the road Jack Kerouac style. Very well writtem.

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by omarthefish
'

But btw, you speak pretty authoritatively. Where are you getting this? . . .


Let just say, I read a lot and watch a lot of travel shows very crtically.

[Merryprankster]

Easy omar....

I'm pretty familiar with the area's make up.

My point was that there are places where there are certainly radical muslims depending on where you go. Wandering Monk's point about the fundamentalists increasing as you go towards the south was specifically what I was talking about considering that there's an intersection with Pakistan and Afghanistan there and I might also point out that there are some pretty radical Uzbeks out there.

But you're correct that most people, in general don't have any truck with that stuff no matter where you go.

Only a small segment of any population is going to be whack-jobs :)

[Chang Style Novice]

Only a small segment of any population is going to be whack-jobs Internet message boards are the exception to this that proves the rule, natch.

[omarthefish]

MP,

This is the second time you've taken an straight question of mine as a mild attack. I think the other one was on a topic about weight training. I don't want to set up a pattern with you. When I said "It depends on what..." I really was asking, not challenging.

I don't have any emotional stake in the topic. I was just hoping your rather vague answer could be made more specific. It's a fascinating region and you can't get any straight answers about it from here. It's incredibly hard even to find a Han Chinese who will admit predjudice against these guys or that there's anything going on there. But then when all the Han leave the room someguy will tell me about how a riot was put down with fire hoses in winter. . . it gets 20-30 below zero there in winter.

It's funny how I always here about how it can be 120 F there but when I was about -20 C. (strangely, it calculates to about the same in farenheit.)

Anyways, MP, I want to keep it friendly and assure you I really wasn't trying to argue with you, just thinking out loud.

[jun_erh]

if you liked that article definatly check out the rest of that site, particularly the stuff by Robert Kaplan (http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/kaplan/rklist.htm) his article "The Coming Anarchy" is somewhat of a classic. I read his article on Mongolia and also the one on Yemen and Eritrea. I just wish I had a printer!!

[Chang Style Novice]

Yeppers. The Atlantic is arguably the best magazine in the country.

[Merryprankster]

Omar, I'm just a hypersensitive boob. Forgive me and we can cuddle and make up later :P


It's incredibly hard even to find a Han Chinese who will admit predjudice against these guys or that there's anything going on there. But then when all the Han leave the room someguy will tell me about how a riot was put down with fire hoses in winter. . . it gets 20-30 below zero there in winter.

Yup. Institutionalized racism that REFLECTS prevailing cultural values sucks, doesn't it?

Screw the Atlantic. Viva La Economist!

[Christopher M]

The Atlantic and Economist can be friends! There is no need to quibble!

[Chang Style Novice]

Anyway, isn't the Economist based in London?