Clean good, squat bad

[fa_jing]

I cleaned 205 lbs. for 3 singles using a belt, then 1 without. It felt awesome, cleans are really fun. I stood up with it each time.

I then tried back squats with 225, and only managed 1 good rep (to the floor).
I'm not sure why my squats suck, but I think it has something to do with the transfer of the thrust among the muscles when the thighs are reaching parallel on the way up. I go down real with my back real vertical, then end up leaning forward along the way up. I bet box squats would help.

[Toby]

I know what you mean. I have trouble around the parallel to just below area. But I do it powerlifting-style so it's only the very bottom bit that bothers me. There are two (IMO) completely different motions involved in the squat. One is from below parallel to parallel and that's a levering-type action. Almost like (I forget what they're called) leg (or quad) extensions. Then from parallel to the top is a thrusting-type action. Totally different. It would probably be worthwhile for me to do some Olympic squats every now and then to develop that levering action that I suck at. The thrusting part I find much easier. Same with DL - if I start with my back too straight and my legs too bent, there's no way I'll make it. As long as I get my thighs above parallel it's all gravy.

Cleans look really fun. Hopefully I'll get my shoulder rehabbed enough to try the Olympic stuff in the medium term.

[IronFist]

You squat with your back vertical?

[Mika]

Originally posted by Toby
Same with DL - if I start with my back too straight and my legs too bent, there's no way I'll make it. As long as I get my thighs above parallel it's all gravy.

I do not know you or your strength levels or anything, so I am just saying this to throw it out there: every time I have encountered that (unless some type of injury has been involved), it has been a matter of the back extensors being stronger than the legs. That is the normal situation for most people, only with training does it alter. There are exceptions, of course, both ways.

Mika

[Toby]

Yeah, that's probably it. I feel like I can pretty much lift my max DL straight-legged. That may not be the case, but my lower back's in pretty good shape right now. Heavy DL's make my lower back pretty sore and tired, but it fades and recovers quickly, like within an hour or so. When I fail at a max, my legs will shake and not make it while my back is still ready to bring it on. I don't mind the situation. I'd rather have a strong back than strong legs for health and safety reasons.

My strength levels - do you really wanna know? Remember, I'm probably lying ;). I was at 350lb 1RM before I lost weight. I've been finishing cycles now at 340lb or 345lb with varying success. Failed 345lb deadlift last cycle but I've lost almost 20lb weight over the last few months. I wanted a 1000lb powerlift total in the medium term, but that's not gunna happen unless I put on weight and I'm trying to cut :(.

[Mika]

Originally posted by Toby
I was at 350lb 1RM before I lost weight. I've been finishing cycles now at 340lb or 345lb with varying success. Failed 345lb deadlift last cycle but I've lost almost 20lb weight over the last few months. I wanted a 1000lb powerlift total in the medium term, but that's not gunna happen unless I put on weight and I'm trying to cut :(.

Cutting or no cutting, let me put it this way: I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I would have to roll with you or be thrown by you...;)

But I might be able to run from you, though...:rolleyes:

:)

//mika

[Toby]

I'm still a fatass. Plus my skills suck. And I'm a WC student, so I'm likely to be pwn3d on the floor :D. I've stabilised @ around 195lb. But yeah, I'm not a fast sprinter :D.

[fa_jing]

IF - yes, I squat with my back real vertical, I think because I've been doing more front squats then anything else and I'm in the groove for that, not back squats. Is that a problem?

I feel that the bottom portion is a thrusting motion too, just that the muscles are engaged differently. I can't really offer more detail.

[Toby]

You can probably totally ignore what I'm about to post because I do it powerlifting style. Maybe it's relevant, though.

With a vertical back, my knees will be way out over my feet == bad for my knees. With my butt sticking out, my shins will stay vertical == good for my knees. Vert back == butt lower == more work (distance travelled) for my legs. Butt out == less leg work but more back load.

The reason I think that's irrelevant is because with Olympic style squats you end up in the same final position no matter how you do it, right? I mean, your butt is against your heels and your knees are past your feet. You'll need Iron (the Olympic squat expert) or Ford to help you on this one. Sorry :(.

[IronFist]

I'm the Olympic Squat expert? I'm having a brain **** as I can't even remember how an Olympic Squat is different from a regular squat.

Anyway, you guys are all freaks. If I squatted with a vertical back I would tip over backward because my center of gravity would be WAY back. Think horse stance. How the hell can you squat like that???

When I squat I guess I do a combination of a wide legged PL squat and narrow leg bodybuilding squat. I hate it when people do those SUPER wide stance PL squats... you know the ones that look like a good morning? Yeah, don't forget to work your quads :p

Soon when I get up to 315 you'll see a pic of me squatting. Hopefully.

At any rate, the important things to remember are:

1. Keep a TIGHT arch in your back. I found out first hand why this is important a few days ago. Ouch.

2. ASS TO THE GROUND (or at least thighs to parallel, if you're not flexible enough to go all the way down).

[fa_jing]

Upon further examination, my back isn't as vertical as I thought it was.