students visiting another school

[porquemada]

I've visited a lot of matial arts school lately and spoke to students and instructors alike. I asked the students how they joined their school and I asked the instructors how they feel if their students visited other schools.

Most of students visited a few schools and were convinced by the instructor, or their friends who were already at the schools. Overwhelmingly most of the instructors didn't encourage their students to visit other schools. Some reasons I got were -
1. its disrespectful for my student to not trust what i teach him
2. the other schools will look at it as a challenge
3. the students shoudl work harder before they represent me.

I did find a school where the sifu told his students to visit other schools to find out if he was cheating them. This was unexpected but it made me curious about what is taboo about visiting other schools. My thoughts are if a group of students learned from an instructor then they would interpret things differently and have a slightly different way of expressing a fundamental idea. It would be to the benefit of the student to seek out those sources

But I am curious what you think on this.

thanks

[sayloc]

I dont mind if my students visit other schools. My main concern is that they will not be treated well by the other instructor or students. You know the ego thing. Or they may think my student is there trying to "steal" information.

The other thing that concerns me is that I have many students who are there just to "get in shape and learn a little self denfense" who come once or twice a week. They do not spend enough time with me to learn the proper MA customs and manners not to mention martial skills and to be honest with you I do not consider them a "dedicated" or "good" student so I would not want them to represent me to another school.

have a good day

[batgirl]

I think it denends on the relationship you have with your school/sifu. If your just a 'paying student' with no loyalties to your school then it's ok to visit another school as long as your honest with them as to why your there. If your a loyal/dedicated student then it would be advisable to consult with your sifu.

A while back I had been studying hung fut for several years and I visited a wing chun school. I had previously met the wing chun sifu through a mutual friend and he seemed pretty friendly. He didn't like my sifu for political reasons.

I visited his school one day (without my sifu's knowledge). The class was crowded (about 30 students) the wc sifu was friendly and out of the blue he asked me to have a friendly match with one of his instructors. we didn't use pads or gloves then. the match lasted about 2 minutes, as he charged in I retreated, we have a move in hf where we retreat in the dragon/cross stance and execute a downward back fist while retreating and then turn and attack, I got him square on the side of his face (my sifu would have been proud if he had known). the wc sifu stopped the match after that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes a well intentioned visit can backfire on you.

[hasayfu]

Here are some random comments...

1) "its disrespectful for my student to not trust what i teach him" While there is some truth to this, it has no bearing on visiting other schools or even questioning what is taught. But just like I tell my daughter, you can always ask me why but when I say do it, I expect it done.

My sifu openly encourages us to see other schools and I am always more grateful for what he teaches us from the experience.

2) "the students shoudl work harder before they represent me."
This is also true but a visit is not necessarily a representation. More on this in #3

3) "the other schools will look at it as a challenge"
There is protocol to visiting other schools especially if you are student of another school. As an instructor from a school that has many visitors from other schools, I can tell you that we've had a few outright challenges and many more veiled ones. By this I mean the person comes in very nice and respectful but starts taking pot shots or raises the stakes when asked for a demo.

The flip side to this is what do you expect when you visit another school? The most you should expect is to not be attacked immediately on entering. Now I have heard people say, well it's a commercial school so shouldn't they be open to new students? Yes and No. If the person coming in is honestly asking questions and willing to be open, then it can open many doors. If there is some sort of deception (like saying I have no martial background and it's obvious that you do), it makes you wonder the true motives of the visitor.

Now if they announce that they are from another school, you have to wonder is this really looking to study there or just get free information.

So is it hopeless to visit and view other schools? No. I have met many sifus and exchanged with them. The best way is to get an introduction. Either contact ahead of time and establish a rapport or get to know a student. This way you are not someone just off the street.

Second, remember that you are the visitor. You should be ultra respectful of their time and grateful for whatever attention they give you. Patience will pay off. When I first met my Si-gung, I waited for 2 hours before I got to meet him. That was my si-gung with a letter of introduction. If I had not waited or demanded that I be seen now (after all I had just gotten off the plane from the US to HK) I probably wouldn't hae the close relationship I have with him now.

Like sayloc says, you don't know how you will be treated and batgirl, what a story! You need to be prepared for anything. I'm happy to say that hasn't happened to me yet but I have been asked to show some stuff before getting too far.

Hope that adds some flavor to this discussion

[ngokfei]

definetly has to do with the individual and the culture.

Why visit another school?

1. You plan to take classes there? If not they you will be viewed as either trying to judge them, challenge them or simply trying to learn something for free.

2. If its a friendly visit then it should be during off time, not during class. And defenitely call ahead of time so as not to come at an inconvinent time.


So this is one of the reasons I don't allow visitors without an appointment. I just don't have the time during class to be social or answer questions fully. Since its my school I am theonly one who speaks to visitors. Also students are not on display, they have enought difficulty concentrating already.. If the individual is really serious about studying then they will have no hesitation in setting up an appointment.

Casual visitors may work for health clubs but not serious MA schools.

[Shaolinlueb]

i asked my sifu this a while ago, cause i was planning on moving to nyc and i asked him well i want to continue training. instead of driving back every weekend could I just train with one of the monks or soemthing. and he said "Sure, if it improves your skill then go for it. I think you know the difference between good and bad kung fu to judge the school." I asked him about training under different teachers and such and he gave the same answer, i would consult him first, because my Sifu knows all the forms, methods and such i want to learn anyways. wouldnt be a real reason to train outside him.