Xingyi

[blackmantis]

Just started training in Xingyi (as well as having done mantis for a long time).

While it does seem to be very different in some ways, it seems to share the same principles and seems to be leading in the same general direction.

Why does everyone claim internal martial arts to be soooo different from external systems!?

Do you all class mantis style as an internal-external system? Does it vary from different types of mantis?

Any thoughts?

S

[Judge Pen]

I've worked with Hsing-Ie before and recently I took a seminar on Mei Hua mantis with sifu Jake Burroughs. I thought the same thing, the principles seemed very similar. I guess we could argue about external vs. internal power generation, but I thought the two styles shard a lot of common round in the way they both continually explode forward while always attacking.

[puja]

I do TaiJi MeiHua TangLang and as I recently took a seminar on Chen TaiJi we encountered many similarities in the principles, too.
IMHO Judge Pen is right, we could argue about external vs. internal power generation, but I think even internal power generation (or fa-jing) can be combined with tanglang on advanced levels.
Here's an older thread, where Robert (mantis108) tells about his opinions on the connection of TaiJi and Mantis (CCK TCPM):
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21585

Best regards,

puja

[ursa major]

Originally posted by blackmantis
... Why does everyone claim internal martial arts to be soooo different from external systems!? ...

Do you all class mantis style as an internal-external system? Does it vary from different types of mantis?

Any thoughts?

S

I've been around southern, northern, hard, soft, internal, external systems long enough to realize that the differences are not as great as is often claimed.

Coming from a southern discipline prior to training NPM I was convinced Northern systems were all fluff and no tuff... this was just the way we were indoctrinated, first in Kempo then later in Hung-Gar.

Now that I have trained PM these last 7 years I know that many of my previous ideas were unfounded and I realize there is far more 'south in the north' (read hard vs soft) and 'north in the south' than most are willing to concede.

Best Regards,
UM.

[mantis108]

First and foremost, thank you Puja for posting the link. I have almost forgotten about the post.

Here's a link to an interesting article posted by Baguaman on the KFO southern forum.

Hung Gar article (http://www.blacktaoist.com/Hung%20Ga.html)

It show an excellent understanding of the CMA methodology general used by virtually all styles, yet it is also style specific. This article is very successful in demonstrating the process of development in Kung Fu. There is as much internal in external just as there is as much external in internal. Different entry point same destination. Most of the time the arguement is politically motivated. Sometimes people need to go through the whole " struggle" in order to accept something. Sometime all it takes is just a little bit of faith which is a great time saver for getting back on track of training.

Mantis108

[puja]

Originally posted by mantis108
There is as much internal in external just as there is as much external in internal. Different entry point same destination. Most of the time the arguement is politically motivated. Sometimes people need to go through the whole " struggle" in order to accept something. Sometime all it takes is just a little bit of faith which is a great time saver for getting back on track of training.

very well stated Robert. Every style has it's own way to reach that destination. Everyone has to decide for themselves which way suits them best to get there.
Also, thanks for the article on Hung Gar.

best regards,

puja

[Buddy]

Different body method entirely.

[steve7mantis]

i agree with the thought that many martial arts are just simply different ways of achieveing the same goal. i have started training hsing-i and i have noticed the similarities discussed here. however, i dont think its specific just to hsing-i and Praying mantis. my club teaches wing chun and tai chi as well as mantis and i have seen many drills or techniques that they practice that would not look out of place in a mantis class, as the similarities are obvious. i have discussed it many times with my Sifu about the possibility that many martial arts branched off from 1 original style, explaining the similarities in techniques and theories. but who knows?

the more difficult thing that you will come across if you havnt already is in keeping the systems seperate. in this i mean that because of the similarites in systems like hsing-i and mantis you could be tempted or maybe even sub-conciously incorporate some techniques from one style into the other, and this is bad. this is when martial arts become mixed up and lose their true path. Last year i went to a Ba Gua seminar taught by Master Park Bok Nam and he asked of other styles people did. he then said that he allowed people to come to only 2 of his seminars before choosing whether or not they were to carry on his style. He explained this as his method of keeping his Ba Gua pure and not allowing people to mix parts of his Pa Kua into their styles they already train. he had some interesting views on this matter which he was keen to share. i mentioned this because i think it applies well to the subject of training more than 1 style while keeping them seperate from each other, however in a fight.....anything goes. ha ha.

[CHAZ]

Steve,
Who is your Hsing I teacher in Newcastle if I may ask?

[steve7mantis]

CHAZ, my Hsing I instructor is not from newcastle. He is called Mark Stapleton and is based in kilkenny, ireland. his teacher is Master James McNeil.

[mantiskilla]

Steve,
what did you think of Master Park? i have read a lot about him, and he seems like the real deal. i have even recommended some friends study with one of his students up north.
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[steve7mantis]

ah master Park is awesome. he really is a legend within martial arts. he explains his theories very clearly and is very down to earth which i did not expect. The seminar i went to was a 2 day optional seminar however i could only attend 1 day as the following day i had a competition to go to. when he found that i was not able to do the second day he seemed disappionted, not because of financial reasons but disappointed theat he could not teach me any more. I would definately recomend anyone who gets the chance to, to train with him and i really rate his Ba Gua. Again lnking in with this post, some techniques he showed us were very similar to mantis techniques however i think there is more emphasis on the footwork....i could be wrong. lik i said its his theories and knowledge which really impressed me straight away. i have both of his books and his video but to hear him explain everything at first hand was fantastic.

[XingYiDao]

steve were kung fu cousins then my sifu is tony pikovsky he learned under mcneal aswell how long you been doin xingyi