PDA

View Full Version : Lap Fu Wai Ying 造虎为形



Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 11:06 AM
Tell me what you guys think of this statement "Lap Fu Wai Ying"?

If you could share, could you share some info on how you or your
school learns, practices etc... "creating the shape of the Tiger"? And, what that means to you personally?

Oh, this would probably be for Tiger stylists ect...

Thanks

mantis108
07-02-2004, 11:57 AM
I would say it's "using the tiger (spirit, attributes, strategies, etc...) as form". In other words, giving shape that of a tiger to a martial art.

Mantis108

Rhat
07-02-2004, 12:02 PM
"Lap Fu Wai Ying"?

Is Bak Mei or Shaolin Tiger kung fu?



"Only Disciple of Sifu Li Yang Jian of Futshan Bak Mei through Sigung Lao Xiu Luang of Foshan China."


Go Jun Long,

Have you heard of Eddie Chong?

Eddie Chong is also a disciple of Sifu Li Yang Jian of Futshan Bak Mei in America.

Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Rhat
"Lap Fu Wai Ying"?

Is Bak Mei or Shaolin Tiger kung fu?



"Only Disciple of Sifu Li Yang Jian of Futshan Bak Mei through Sigung Lao Xiu Luang of Foshan China."


Go Jun Long,

Have you heard of Eddie Chong?

Eddie Chong is also a disciple of Sifu Li Yang Jian of Futshan Bak Mei in America.

Well I only know it is used in Bak Mei and not sure about other systems.

He is not a Disciple of Sifu only a past student.

Thank you for your thoughts on the subject. So how do you, or do you, practice and utilize Lap Fu Wai Ying?

Buddha_Fist
07-02-2004, 12:36 PM
Rhat registers the same day as Go Jun Long decides to troll in the WC forum and keeps on posting only in threads initiated by Go Jun Long.... Hmmm... A pattern....

Ergo: Rhat = Go Jun Long

So much for this monologue & self propaganda.

Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 01:08 PM
say what!?

Rhat
07-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Buddha_Fist
Rhat registers the same day as Go Jun Long decides to troll in the WC forum and keeps on posting only in threads initiated by Go Jun Long.... Hmmm... A pattern....

Ergo: Rhat = Go Jun Long

So much for this monologue & self propaganda.


Buddha_Fist,

You can train your kung fu like the intellect. You may know a noble spirit by the elevation of your taste. Only a great thing can satisty a great mind. Think twice before you speak.

Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 01:26 PM
Look guys, I am just asking questions to gather information. If you think its trolling then dont answer. I do not see any harm in seeking information. K

Rhat
07-02-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Go Jun Long
Look guys, I am just asking questions to gather information. If you think its trolling then dont answer. I do not see any harm in seeking information. K



No harm at all in seeking information. Words are, of course, the most powerful kung fu( Lap Fu Wai Ying ) used by Buddha Fist.

Is Buddha Fist a student of Eddie Chong?

:cool:

hasayfu
07-02-2004, 03:06 PM
Not sure what the troll stuff is but sounds like a legit question.
I have one about the chinese you used. I hate simplified Chinese so I changed your wai to traditional Here's what I think you wrote:

造虎為形

This reads Chou Fu Wai Ying. "Construct Tiger Become Shape"
Lap Fu Wai Ying would be:

擸虎為形

"Sieze Tiger Become Shape"

Just curious if you meant the first or the second. Both have very similar meanings. Is this a famous phrase for Bak Mei?

Coming from a mainly english speaking Hung Gar school, I have not heard this phrase "Lap Fu" but "Wai Ying" is very common. It means glean from the essence. By this, we don't try to become a tiger in every way but understand what tiger characteristic we are emphasizing for that particular move.

For instance, hungry tiger decends mountain is different then single tiger exists cave.

BTW, thanks for including the chinese characters. It helps so much.

Buddha_Fist
07-02-2004, 03:09 PM
This is ridiculous.

Rhat & Go Jun Long have even the very same stupid habit of citing quotes all the time. Must run in the family -http://www.komudokwan.com/quotes.html

It's obvious that they are the same person.

And now go back to Kindergarten!

Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 04:46 PM
I do not know who rhat is.period.

Bf you have a problem with me?

Go Jun Long
07-02-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by hasayfu
Not sure what the troll stuff is but sounds like a legit question.
I have one about the chinese you used. I hate simplified Chinese so I changed your wai to traditional Here's what I think you wrote:

造虎為形

This reads Chou Fu Wai Ying. "Construct Tiger Become Shape"
Lap Fu Wai Ying would be:

擸虎為形

"Sieze Tiger Become Shape"

Just curious if you meant the first or the second. Both have very similar meanings. Is this a famous phrase for Bak Mei?

Coming from a mainly english speaking Hung Gar school, I have not heard this phrase "Lap Fu" but "Wai Ying" is very common. It means glean from the essence. By this, we don't try to become a tiger in every way but understand what tiger characteristic we are emphasizing for that particular move.

For instance, hungry tiger decends mountain is different then single tiger exists cave.

BTW, thanks for including the chinese characters. It helps so much.

Well keep in mind that these characters might be slightly off or one of them in particular. Sifu, gave me these and I am trying to remember them perfectly. It is hard not being Chinese:) THe actual translation is "creating the shape of the tiger"
Yeah mainly I would just like to hear what others do to use, promote or train this method. Thanks again for your info and would like to hear more if you would not mind.

Rhat
07-02-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Buddha_Fist
This is ridiculous.

Rhat & Go Jun Long have even the very same stupid habit of citing quotes all the time. Must run in the family -http://www.komudokwan.com/quotes.html

It's obvious that they are the same person.

And now go back to Kindergarten!


Grow up Buddha Fist and start talking about things you know about. For someone who knows alot about Bak Mei you know very little about Go Jun Long and his Bak Mei Sifu! Perhaps you can tell us about your personal problem. Is this your problem -(He is not a Disciple of Sifu only a past student.)?

I don't know who Go Jun Long is. Buddha Fist, why do care so much about Go and Rhat? And do you have reasonable views of yourself and of your finger kung fu?

Rhat
07-03-2004, 12:24 AM
THe actual translation is "creating the shape of the tiger"

Is this a white tiger?:D

Go Jun Long
07-03-2004, 08:12 AM
Oh no, you cannot get me to talk about BFP:) I dont know anything about it:D

But no, Like I said I only know of it through Bak Mei, but they may have it in the system. I feel that any Tiger system would have this. Can anyone add on to this and tell us if there is?

Hai_To
07-04-2004, 09:36 AM
Rhat,

Do you study Pak Mei with Sifu Li Yang Jian as well? Your statement to Buddha_Fist regarding Eddie Chong ("He is not a Disciple of Sifu only a past student.") leads me to that question.

Just curious.

TAO YIN
07-04-2004, 10:56 PM
How old are some of you? 8 or so? Anyways...

Ha Say Fu: cool post. There are many tigers in kung fu training, so to speak.


Go Jun Long: Hello; just so you know, your one and only disciple signature, it doesn't really promote a good traditional sifu's intentions. I mean, that signature does kinda go against the whole "all men of the four seas are brothers," saying. Plus, no one here really cares probably, but I digress because speaking of such means I care in some way...or that I am passing judgement.

So, anyways Go, Are you talking creating the tiger externally with regards to body mechanics and the external coordinates co-relating, or internally with regards to mind, chi, intent, soul, heart to heart, shen-shen-shen, say-say-say, and all that sort of stuff, or both coordinating together??? What "mental attributes" constitute the minds awareness of a tiger spirit? Are you just really ****ed off, hunting for food, and breathing real hard, or what? Is mor chi chor kai involved, or is this not important? Is this only the behavior of a dragon, or what?

Just curious,,,

Tao

Go Jun Long
07-05-2004, 07:38 AM
Tao Yin,
Hey thanks for your thoughts but you really do not understand my Sifu or what traditions he has or myself. I understand how it might come across, but this point needs to be made to uphold who does and does not have Futshan Bak Mei. I dont see any harm in promoting the truth, but we all have our own opinions, thats what makes us great:D
Can you explain to me how such a statement could go agaist "from 5 lake and 4 seas all men are brothers"?

Ok, about the question: lets make it easy to understand. The question is about every aspect of the art and the Tiger. Use your imagination and think about everything that you use the Tiger for, whether it be internal, external, spiritual, mental etc...

Hope this helps

TAO YIN
07-05-2004, 08:30 PM
You know, Go, when you say "I understand how it might come across, but this point needs to be made to uphold who does and does not have Futshan Bak Mei," I understand...no reason for me to say anything in return really. If you truly believe this in your heart, and this belief is important to you, then that's all the better for you.

The reason that what you say goes against the statement is because the "fu" is for everyone. You are not the "one and only disciple" of Futshan Bak Mei. There are many. If your Sifu "Bai Shee" you then good for you. Maybe, you have Sihings?? But I guess not from your statements. Either way, it doesn't matter; because we die.

Anyways, as far as the Tiger is concerned, were those the answers that you were looking for? I asked what you broadly answered, so again, which one do you want to talk about? The external tiger? The internal tiger? The spiritual tiger? The mindful tiger?

Perhaps on the physical side of things would be best to start. Since there's "nothing new under the sun," if you are able to "shape your body and move, like a tiger," then your external coordinates are working, and your body mechanics are sound. Get your breath going along with your tiger actions, and your internal will build from there. However this internal quest shapes your heart, mind, and soul; that is up to you to imagine...right?

Take Care,

Tao

Go Jun Long
07-06-2004, 05:04 AM
Cool, cool. So does anyone here actually study the Tiger (the animal) to offset there Tiger art training?

hasayfu
07-06-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Go Jun Long
Cool, cool. So does anyone here actually study the Tiger (the animal) to offset there Tiger art training?

We do. But we don't mimic tiger movements per se. It's all about wai xing or becoming the essence. For instance, Tiger decends mountain. Ever watch a tiger come from up high? It has very powerful and long movements. Crashing through anything it's way till it reaches it's target. (eye of the tiger). The Hung Gar technique reflects this as it traps the arms, knocks the opponent off balance and goes for the kill.

Contrast that to a tiger coming out of a cave. A tiger attacking from a cave is like coming from a hidden area. It doesn't try to cover long distance but draws the prey into range. It comes out quick and deadly and close to the cave. The HG technique is similar. It has a grab to draw the prey in and the tiger comes from behind the grab like it was coming out of a hidden area.

OK, this is not exact but you get the idea. Sifu always talks about animal characteristics when getting the essence (Xing) of a technique.

Now a question back. You say it is definitely "Create the tiger." So is it definitely "Lap Fu Wai Xing?" Cuz create the tiger in cantonese would be Chou Fu. That said, I can see Lap Fu to mean the same thing. If you can see my chinese characters, I would be curious to see what your sifu says about the difference.

BTW, I am no chinese expert. I'm chinese but 3rd gen American and raised with a Toisan influence so a lot gets lost in translation :) I'm learning though and that's why I ask.

Go Jun Long
07-07-2004, 08:17 AM
I am with you on not being a Chinese Language 中文 expert.

Well I have not talked with Sifu yet, but I have been doing some translating and this is what I have gotten:

建立虎的形 = Jianli hu de xing (mandarin) = Establishment/create the shape of tiger (English)

But in translation it always wants to add this 状 which means shape, just like 形. Dont really understand that one. It would be like "create the shape shape of tiger" :p

I will get back with you once I an get around to contacting Sifu.


五个湖四个海
Long
高俊龙

PaiLumDreamer
07-16-2004, 09:50 PM
This post was great to read! I like seeing people interested in traditional kung fu, rather than kickboxing kung fu. This inspired me.

fiercest tiger
07-17-2004, 12:53 AM
The shape is the posture, which changes the mindset, which changes the ging which means DEATH!

Dont read into things to much with these poems or songs and sayings because you may completely go the wrong way.

The shape of tiger back changes the body from yin chi to yang chi and covers the important pressure points during fighting. Kinda like a shell!

With the tigers back/shoulders youhave more reach thus more power as Bak Mei is based on inch power/short power.

hope this helps
FT:)

Rhat
07-17-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by fiercest tiger


Dont read into things to much with these poems or songs and sayings because you may completely go the wrong way.

hope this helps
FT:)


LOL!

Allow Go Jun Long some forgivable sin!:D

Rhat
07-17-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Hai_To
Rhat,

Do you study Pak Mei with Sifu Li Yang Jian as well? Your statement to Buddha_Fist regarding Eddie Chong ("He is not a Disciple of Sifu only a past student.") leads me to that question.

Just curious.


(hint) Go Jun Long's Pak Mei can't stop my powerful CHOP CHOI.

....got it!?:confused:

Go Jun Long
07-17-2004, 03:15 PM
:confused:

Rhat
07-17-2004, 10:00 PM
Go Jun Long,

You should read it like the intellect. In other words, you should never spoil your own:confused: in order to please others:D :D :D ;)