Instructor beating students

[X-Warrior]

How does everyone feel about this?

This has actually happened in a local TeaKwonDo school but the question is for any schools: I got to know this guy from that school, his instructor is from S. Korea. One of the students is a real bad boy, got into trouble with the police - for a very good reason. When the instructor heard about the incident, he beat the guy up in the school, saying that he is ashamed of him and deserves a good beating.

What's everyone opinion about an instructor beating a student, in any situation (disrespect, bad behavior ... etc.)?

-X-

[Ben Gash]

This is covered in a pretty black and white way in criminal and civil law.

[TheBlackDragons]

I agree with ben

[Hungfutkune]

I don't have a problem with an instructor disciplining his students if the student has done something seriously wrong, in or out of the school (as long as it doesn't cause too much physical damages). I am still a student and I always considered a sifu or teacher as my older brother or surrogate father. If I had done something wrong that could possible shine ill light on myself, then it will also shine ill light on my family or teachers or school. That being said the teacher shouldn't just beat up his student for their wrong doings but push him harder in class, make him do hour long horse stance training and YES, spar with him.

This reminds me of a story that I once heard. There was an old and respected Kung Fu sifu in town. He was very respected in the chinese community but only taught one student. This student (a white boy, aged 14 at the time) would go to Chinatown and watch old kung fu movies with his friends. Then he was so riled up after the movie and was so excited he would get into fights with chinese kids on the street and use traditional Kung Fu. Well at that time Chinatown was a small community so when a white kid came into town and beat up chinese kids using Traditional Kung Fu, they all knew who it was. Some of the Chinatown elders went to the respected Sifu and told him the story. The next day the sifu would not say anything but would train his student extra hard, usually sparring with him and always getting the better of him. At the end of class the sifu told his student "next time he feels the need to start fighting after watching a movie, that he better come home and train harder, and if he ever heard that he went to Chinatown or anywhere for that matter, and acted recklessly again he would stop teaching him Kung Fu". The student realizing this never went and caused a problem again.

I really think (this might sound corny) Martial Arts is a WAY OF LIFE and training with good teacher makes us better people.

Just my opinion, what does everybody else think?

[David Jamieson]

wow...talk about innappropriate!

under no circumstances does anyone have a "right" to exert physical aggression towards another as a form of discipline in my opinion.

This line of thinking and acting is revealing more of teh "instructor" than of the student who had the run in.

now the student will have a perspective that will be difficult to change.

If the instructor was seriously offended by the boy, then he can positively help the guy to gain some more amicable attributes i.e allow him more training time, help the boy to expend his time in a positive fashion instead of making concrete teh nehgative by exerting more negative into his life.

Understanding others is really an extension of understanding yourself, both the good and the bad parts.

It's too bad that people in positions of authority are in this case unable to responsibily use that authority.

physical admonishments are hardly the answer in this case, the boy probably needs a more positive figure in his life that will help him through. If the "instructor" cannot offer this and instead opts to get angry and exert violenece....well, it says a lot about where the boy gets his errant ways from if those are his influences.

see?

cheers

[Starchaser107]

there was once a pretty famous "local (ja.)" karate instructor that was notorious for beating his students, even on camera. I always thought that this was an acceptable practice in martial arts to teach discipline. But I realise now that this approach may have more disadvantages than it has advantages.
I never did karate or tae kwon do, so my first hand experience is with kung fu. I have never experienced personally or observed physical abuse as a means of discipline (i.e.) beatings, but, hard training definately.
in my opinion I believe that physical abuse teaches people that violence is the solution to all problems. which is not true.

[SPJ]

Agreed on discipline. But not physcial beating.

Usually it is cleaning the Dojo or Dojang. Assume a low horse riding stance for a long time. Meditate facing the wall and think about why, how and what is right or wrong.

[X-Warrior]

Thanks all for the replies.

One interesting reason I asked this question is because I once watched a Muay Thai training where the students were prepared for an upcoming fight. The instructor said to them: 'I hate to say it but the best performing fighters come out of the ring are the ones that were beaten by their parents or bothers or whoever. They got used to beating and therefore they do well in real fights.'

So now, the questions is, how much punching your body and what kind of punching is 'good' for you? I did hear about a study done on beating the head (studying boxers especially where hitting the head is very common) and it has been proven over and over that beating the head lowers the individual's IQ and the individual becomes less and less smart, so I stay away from that. I, however, do like to train the body by hitting it systematically. I read that it is actually part of iron shirt training.

So maybe getting beaten up does have good effects as well.

-X-

[David Jamieson]

'I hate to say it but the best performing fighters come out of the ring are the ones that were beaten by their parents or bothers or whoever. They got used to beating and therefore they do well in real fights.'

This is dead wrong, and it's a good thing he hates to say it because he certainly ain't no statistician and he certainly isn't grasping the concepts associated with socio-economic conditions and the results and symptoms of them.

While a certain percentage of fighters in the world are likely to have experienced bad stuff at home, certainly not all of them do and I don't think it makes anyone any hungrier.

It's the hungry ones who win in my opinion. The guy or girl who really wants it bad and trains to that end.

just saying I wouldn't take training advice from the muay thai guy you mentioned, if I wanted to learn Muay Thai, I'd get the skills elsewhere and I'm sure the training would be just as hard, but without the messed up world view of that individual.

cheers

[blooming lotus]

i LOVE SPJS' comments on this..............discipline should be an integral part of any life, but that does not need to equate to violence.

Until people change their attitudes about these things, really...how does that same person with their own violent tendancies, condem ANY atrociety anyone else inflicts on another person??????????????


Being restricted by facility, skill, rescource and hardware, etc in my opinion, makes it not even slightly less unacceptable. Violence is violence.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Blooming Lotus,

Some people say that you are nothing but a troll. But for now I have decided to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for the topic, don't the students expect to be beaten up in the traditional chinese way when they do southern kung fu?

[cerebus]

LOL! It's a troll calling a troll a troll!!! :p :p

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Blooming Lotus,

Some people say that you are nothing but a troll. But for now I have decided to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for the topic, don't the students expect to be beaten up in the traditional chinese way when they do southern kung fu?


I can't speak for anyone else but myself.....all I know that is that I respect humanity and am at the end of the day a pacifist. I don't agree with abuse , no matter the source and I hate the idea that to learn your only option is humiliation...........it's unhealthy and there are other options.......like the pushups or extra stances etc.................

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I don't agree with abuse , no matter the source

Tell that to your full stop key and any English language dictionary!

;)

[Shaolinlueb]

sometimes the old school way is the only way to get things done.

there is beating then senselessly beating. if he did the controlled beating, hey more power to him.

[Starchaser107]

kinky