Tun To Fou Chum in Pak Mei

[Lau]

Ls,

Many of the threads regarding Pak Mei talk about Fou, Cham, Tun, To (float, sink, swallow and spit). Opposed to the external 6 powers (teeth, neck, waist, back, hands, feet) these should be the 4 internals. I'm still struggeling to understand them. This is, in short, how I basically see them now

Fou = Float = Straighten upper body (lower back)
Cham = Sink = Curve upper body (lower back)
Tun = Swallow = breathing, swallowing the breath (when sinking). i.e. pressing the breath into your dan tien
To = Spit = breathing, spit out the air.

In Jek Bo I use it this way : with the biu tse I straighten my lower back (fou) and breathe out (to) With the punch I curve my lower back (cham) and press the air into my lower abdomen (tun). When I relax my lower abdomen after the punch the air automatically flows out (so the breathing out happens after the punch is executed). So I see "fou / cham" as power generation using the waist & lower back and "tun / to" as the relating breathing patterns.

Would anyone help me by sharing your opinion on Fou Cham Tun and To?

Regards, Lau (lalau88@hotmail.com)

[Pakmei]

Hi Lau,

How's it going. You get the poem that I sent back to you.
My Sifu translated it, and strangely enough it makes alot of sense good reading.

However, back to the original question above. As in the poem, it became very clear to me that while Tun and Chum work is because yes! you are swallowing the breath to a certain degree but actually what is happening is that your sinking the breathing as in 'Chum' down in order to lower the centre of gravity and therefore creating our root, but actually 'Tun' swallowing the chest and hips to aid the Chum action.

Just another slant on it, that I got from the poem. It's strange that how my Sifu can make the most difficult things sound very simple and easy to understand.

[mantis108]

The 6 external and the 4 internal powers are IMHO not independent of each other. In a way, it is similar to Lung Ying's external 5 forms (Ying) and internal 5 powers (Ging).

The Luk Ging without the Sei Nei Bui Ging, would become strength (lik) and no direction nor orientation. All movements become chaotic (luen). With the Sei Nei Bui Ging, you will establish an order to your method (Fa). That's crucial to the practice of Bak Mei IMHO. Having just the Sei Nei Bui Ging and without Luk Ging is like a car raving a powerful engine at parked neutral gear. Either way, it is not optimal performance. Just thought I share this with you.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[meltdawn]

mantis 108
really neat description!

[Lau]

Hi Dave,
I got your message and will study the translation in the weekend. I think swallowing the chest is important in both "tun" and "to". In "tun" you described it well (while it also makes your shoulders round so the force can travel freely). In "to" it helps you to breathe out naturally, because swallowing your chest pushes out some air which is situated in the upper part of your lungs. When you relax your chest after swallowing it, the air will automatically flow in again (try swallowing your chest and then pull your shoulders back, air will automatically come in) . This way you won't have to think about breathing. Your body movements breathe for you.

Mantis108,
Good to hear from you! I think I should have chosen my words more carefully. What I meant to say is that there are externals and internals. And since the luk ging are the externals fou cham tun to should be (and are) the internals. Of course they should work together. That is what is learnt in Jek bo. For example like Dave said, while using "cham" and tun" to lower your centre of gravity, the luk ging makes sure your whole body generates the power at exactly the same moment and only for a split second while preventing the force to travel to your head/brain. So the luk ging connects all parts of your body (also with the ground) while using FCTT.

I always enjoy and treasure your explanations. Would you like to enlighten us/me with your thoughts on fou cham tun?

Regards, Lau

[Olaf]

Interesting!

Let me start off by saying that I believe the explanations written above are the correct ones. But I would like to add one for the sake of discussion:

Sink: When you have the power of the air inside your body and you stand strong and firm
Float: When you move; there is no air in your body, the body is relaxed and you move quickly (and then after that lock down immediately.

Like I said, I assume that what has been said in the posts above is the true explanation but maybe this can spark some thinking. Just my two cents!

[EAZ]

I don't have too much to add to the excellent points made above, except that in our lineage, it appears that this concept, while important, is not as central as in others.

Could this be related to the proximity (or lack thereof) of Dragon style to each lineage's Pak Mei?

EAZ

[mantis108]

Thank you for a wonderful thread and the compliments. :D I am sure you have a solid understand of these things. I just thought I share some thoughts with you. Anyway, the TTFC has been extensively discussed before. I don't think I have anything new to add to it at this point. I would also like to thank all of the inputs from everyone. Please keep them coming.

Warm regards

Mantis108