Challenged by TKD/JKD

[Apostol]

A certain person has challenged me to a sparring match. However, I'm not SURE if I'm confident in my ability.

The only style he has officially practiced is TKD. However, he also was the state champion in his division due to one reason, his Jeet Kune Do practice and philosophy.

He is not much larger than me, maybe a bit stronger, but almost no height difference. He has been training in TKD and martial arts in general for about a year. This may seem laughable, but his speed and determination is unmatched by anyone I have seen. In 9 months of TKD training, his kicks are faster than that of a second degree black belt.

He is somewhat proficient in attacking, feinting, countering, defending, and knows a lot about fighting mechanics. However, his weakness is lack of experience, and primarily lack of experience in full-contact fighting. He is used to TKD fighting, almost kicking only and point sparring. However, he claims he trains other martial arts in his free time, like wing chun (not officially).

Now me, I have over 7 years of Judo and Ju Jitsu experience. I've also studied MMA in my free time and now I study Hsing Yi Ch'uan primarily.

I've only been studying Hsing Yi Ch'uan for a little over a month, however, I take my training seriously, just as he does. So far I've learned Eagle Capture (Mother fist) and Pi Chuan. I'm able to do them fairly well, and even my teacher thinks so.

Can anyone give me advice? Can I defeat him using only Pi Chuan and Eagle Capture? Despite Pi Chuan's simplicity, during shadowboxing I feel that Pi Chuan almost has an answer to anything.

At this point, I've somewhat realized what a proficient system Hsing Yi is, and why to combine my external striking arts is pointless. If it so happens that I go to the ground, I have my Ju-Jitsu (and even so, deep in Hsing Yi there is grappling at the advanced level) .

[Josh Vogel]

Hi,

Is it a friendly sparring match or one in which the point is that you win?


If it's a friendly exchange, then why not just play with what you are working on? Like see how Pi chuan works in sparring.

If it's not friendly, since you have so much Judo and Jiujitsu experience , why not take him down and submit? If he does as much TKD and JKD as you say he does and relies primarily on kicks, it seems reasonable that you shouldn't have to wait too long for an opportunity for a throw or takedown. Since you know what you are doing on the ground and I'm assuming he doesn't, then play it safe and tie him up until you can submit.

That's just what I think, I'm no expert or anything. Have fun either way.
Regards,
Josh

[_William_]

Yeah, as Josh said, it would be best to consider if the guy's intentions are good or not.

Cause the way I see it, a "challenge" from someone means they are trying to prove something. This is not friendly at all.

IMO, it is very important to have friends and people you trust as referree, to prevent this challenge match from turning into a brawl.

Good luck.

[Apostol]

Yes, you see the problem is, it's NOT a friendly match, and my other friend is going to watch this match. He keeps going on and on about how much I suck, and how Mike (the person I'm "sparring") will "own" me.

Actually, the person I'm sparring is much friendlier than my friend. It's my "friend" I'm ****ed off about. He keeps saying things like "Jew Jitsu is BS" (lol, that spelling).

Right now I'm getting onto terms with my friend and explaining that I don't know the complete Hsing Yi system yet, and my external martial arts have gotten slightly worse, and that I was faster three months ago. This is because I've gained weight and lost some external hand striking speed, and I'm now focusing on internal martial arts.

He's also a loser who just goes on about how much martial arts suck (he's a TKD dropout, haha).

[CD Lee]

Hmmmm...sounds like a bad idea to me. Look, it is hard with one month of Xingyi to expect yourself to be able to use it to great effect. If it was friendly, then sure, no problem. But this is not.

If you are going to practice, like you say you are intent upon doing, then tell him you suck, and need to practice. You need that basic work for a year minimun.

There is more to all of it than the motions of the elements. You have to learn to move your entire body in unison for whole body power. How to express and recieve energy efficiently, root, to move your root, to control his center by controlling your center, etc.

However. If you are intent upon this endevour, I have some suggestions.

1. Get more than one friend to attend. Make sure it is supervised by emotionally mature people.
2. Get an agreement on the level of force to be used.
3. Get an agreement on whether takedowns are allowed.

Tactics:
If he is really only doing TKD, then take it away from him. NEVER stand in his kicking range, or striking range. Xingyi is in your face, in your center. If he starts to close, then you close with him to jam any kicks or punches. This is your entering movement in Pi. If he does not close, you don't need to either. Don't feel you have to play the aggressor. You don't.

Once in close, either throw with Pi Chuan, strike with it, or clench him. If you cannot strike with it now, what hope do you have inside anyways? Clench him.

If he is attacking, get immediately off his line of attack, enter his inside or outside gate, and boom, you are in close. If he EVER lifts one of his legs, grab it, now you own his balance. Kick the other one out from under him, or just shove him away using his leg as a lever.

Thats for trying to use Xingyi with only one month. Not recommended!

You said you have Judo and JJ. Just close the distance, lock him up, and do that thing you guys do. Osoto Gari? Judo should work great on TKD. Remember, he can't hit or kick you well if you are too close, or too far.

[dre_doggX]

Shen Yi and Qi, its all in the mind. what you should do is activate a mind state of attack, and let your qi follow that mindstate. as if your attacker had a weapon, you body would fight me more seriously, you would let him touch, you with out knocking down fast, and use Shen to unify the bodies engery this is just being aware of your body and that its in an attacking mode, yi to give the movements qi, and this will make the movement better, and releastic because of the intent.

view the person not my the attacking part of his body but try to cloak him, like the area around his body.
and ofcourse when you do anything you do it with your full body.

[3rdrateIMAkilla]

You can always armbar him, if you don't have the internal power.

[MaFuYee]

stop being such a goshdarn coward.
i don't want to hear your pansy arse excuses.
just be a man, and thow down.
even if you get your ass handed to you,
at least you'll have a shred more respect than
you've got right now...

[brassmonkey]

you'll get your ass kicked, better go back to training

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Apostol
Now me, I have over 7 years of Judo and Ju Jitsu experience. I've also studied MMA in my free time... If all of this was true, you would know exactly what to do against someone with one year of TKD training.

[Apostol]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
If all of this was true, you would know exactly what to do against someone with one year of TKD training.

Yes, I will know exactly what I'm doing. He's not just a TKD Mcdojo kid though, he "studies" other martial arts. Probably doesn't really do the techniques correctly, however. I want to focus on beating him with striking. I know as a fact I can beat him if I just take him down, but that would be way too easy.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Seems like you would be in a disadvantage either way even if you win.

If you win because of your other skills then they will ask what happened to what you where studying.

If you lose trying to stick to what your studying, your practice is not really mature enough yet other wise you would be sure of what you can and can not do.
This will have vindicated what was said.
Either way you lose.

You are still in the process of dropping things changing over this is just an inturptiong in your practice why allow it.

If the match is unfriendly then why do it? unless your intention is to hurt him. If you feel that what you do is a martial art not a martial sport ask yourself is it worth getting hurt over, or hurting someone else.

[Mojo]

You'll need a pretty good pi-chen if that's all you have to use. That being the case , be very aggresive with pi-chen and pi-chen him in the head every time he starts to move. If he throws up a hand to block then grab it and pi-chen his arm/elbow.

[3rdrateIMAkilla]

Myself I would focus on:

Hours of san ti relaxation standing, possibly with wrist weights

Footwork off of San ti stance. And also 50/50 weighted san ti stance. Release front leg and press off the back leg to go forward, reverse to go back to center. And also side to side footwork. Pi quan could maybe then be used as a jab, of your footwork, to then lead into beng quan or other strikes.Use the body momentum all coordinated with the stepping, and turn with striking, but never turn away from the guy.

Thousands of Xingyi strikes on a heavy bag

Practicing fast combinations of stikes as if going from 0 to 100mph , and then immediately defending if necessary

If you do throw him down , myself I would try to use relaxed waist and hips to do it, and try to slam him hard if possible. And there's always the Ground and Pound, or if I was fighting, possibly go for a kick to the body or even head while he's down, or better yet, while holding him down. So possibly striking, defending, along with throwing or takedown combinations.

Possibly beng quan punch to the body, and be ready to defend immediately, and at least turn the hips forward for beng quan

He may throw an axe type kick in which case a Pao quan type maneuver might be useful to catch it and throw him down, but you'd have to really train it.



You want to win with xingyi, I see now. Just some ideas.

[3rdrateIMAkilla]

Remember the video you posted. The video of the Blacktaoist doing benq quan to a guys head.

Look straight ahead at the guy. Keep eyes on him. Don't bob and weave around and play his game.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Apostol
Yes, I will know exactly what I'm doing. He's not just a TKD Mcdojo kid though, he "studies" other martial arts. Probably doesn't really do the techniques correctly, however. I want to focus on beating him with striking. I know as a fact I can beat him if I just take him down, but that would be way too easy. Then just keep that in reserve. Try to use your new art to beat him. If that doesn't work and you start to take punishment, take him down, and throw a Kimura on him.

[Volcano Admim]

yeah man if you 7 years of grappling man
kick his ass witha... lock

i DISAGREE with knifefighter though, i think using a Kimura would be very silly
i recomend using an inverted americana

[YongChun]

Hi first the match is a bad idea. There are always thousands of guys wanting a challenge. If you win or lose against this guy it doesn't prove much but is maybe just a stepping stone to some future confidence.

I am not an Emin Boztepe student or anything but he made a tape dealing with kickers which I think is pretty good. I had a friend who was a very fast and tall 4th degree Hapkido student. Emin was able to shut him down no matter what kick he used. He only used proper distancing and timing to rush in and knock him down. The tape explains this.

What I did to a Taekwondo guy was to kick his kicking leg as soon as he kicked. That worked ok. Against some other kickers I crept up close the the kicking range then then played inch games and rushed in as soon as a kick finished.

To show the difficulty though, we had a student who learned 15 years of martial arts in Hong Kong including Hung style, Preying Mantis, Tai Chi etc. Then he learned Wing Chun for three years and was easily the best student. He joined a TaeKwonDo club with a state champion. He said for 6 months he could not find the proper distancing and timing to get in nor could he read the signals of what kick was coming. But after this amount of time he got used to the kicks and then used kick vs kick to get in and then demolished all of them using his Wing Chun and whatever hands.

So you might also take up some TaeKwonDo somewhere to just get used to their kicks. If you want to beat TaeKwonDo, boxing , grappling or something you are not familiar with, go and study it for awhile. But proper distancing and timing is very important. Don't look at it like he learned TaeKwonDo and you learned this or that. Think of the proverbial street fighter who just picks the right moment and rushes in. That's the kickers nightmare. In the Ultimate fights there are few fighters who get knocked out with a kick when they rush in.

When you spar play first to get used to the timing. Don't just go in when the action looks too fast. Once Mohamed Ali took 13 rounds to beat some second rate boxer because the guy had an awkward fighting style. So even though Mohamed Ali was the world champ he still didn't blindly go in and try for a knockout the first round.

You can use a kick yourself to get in. Maybe he is good at kicking but poor at defending against kicks himself. Kick low and fast only.
Kick his support leg. Don't use your hands to block any kicks. Move. Watch that show Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris where they fight in the coliseum.

My background is Wrestling, Karate, Hung style, Tai Chi, Wing Chun and Escrima.

[Josh Vogel]

Hi,

When are you going to fight this guy?
Regards,
Josh

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by Josh Vogel
Hi,

When are you going to fight this guy?
Regards,
Josh

It happened. He lost. There is a huge thread on it on Bullshido that I started. You bring it here, I'll delete it.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14564

[Josh Vogel]

Hi,


Whoa! Don't worry, I won't bring anything here except my dashing good looks and rapier like wit, my friend.

Josh

[PHILBERT]

Works for me. I just don't need this spilling over onto this board. I figured Bullshido would wanna read it more since the people who fought Alex are screaming there TKD defeated a grappler with 7 years experience, submission fighter, JiuJitsu guy, etc. I just don't want Bruce Kim coming here and acting up.