Overcoming Ego

[Merryprankster]

When somebody talks about Ego and overcoming it, what exactly does that mean to you? You hear a lot of people pay lip service to it, but I don't think many of those same folk really have THOUGHT about what it means or can articulate it.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this. It's a big part of many people's MA practice but, I think, not put in context terribly often.

Thanks!

[David Jamieson]

ego is a sense of self to put it basically.

some people have an overinflated sense of self and see themselves as more important or better than others.

Nothing tempers this better than getting knocked on ones @ss by someone who they presumed they were better than.

If you subject yourself to these types of lessons, then you are overcoming your overinflated ego (if you have one).

However, if you completely lose your ego, you wouldn't be able to walk or talk and in fact would be considered legitimately insane.

Because afterall, if you don't know who or what you are, how can you determine what the rest of the world is?

You need your ego. the only place where it goes away is in your sleep and even then, in dreams you mayu very well be concious of who you are.

[Oso]

you can't train effectively if your ego won't let you get hit without rancor towards the person who hit you.

that's where I most hate to see ego surface in the martial world.

if you are training hard against similarly trained peeps, you're gonna get your bell rung...roll with it and go.

the sport world has, I think, overcome this but I still see it quite often in the 'traditional' world.

in a selfish plug for Pong Lai PM, we like to get hit. :D

[norther practitioner]

People who say they are over there egos are only saying that to inflate their egos...

[Ford Prefect]

I think when they talk of it terms of "overcoming" they are talking about being able to take a slight or take defeat without it touching you personally.

Think of when you first started BJJ. Newbs have a tendency to go 110% because they don't want to "lose". They'll stick to tried and trusted techniques rather than trying a new thing. Eventually they realize that not wanting to lose is making them less likely to learn. A loss on the mat says nothing about you as a person and doesn't mean you are somehow now worth less. They try new techniques and become proficient in a wide variety of skills. They acquire new levels of sensivity and in this; in trying to learn rather than win; they actually start winning more often: both on the mat and in their personal development.

[red5angel]

ego to me is a couple of things, in a bad context. First, if you allow yourself to believe you have more phat skeewz then you actually do, that's ego and it's bad. If you fail to learn because your too busy assuming you know how it's supposed to be done, that's ego. If you decide you know what's best without really having the knowledge to base that in fact, that's ego. IF you have a hard time letting other people surpass you in skill, especially when your teaching them, thats ego.

[rubthebuddha]

i think everyone's right thus far, mainly because ego is a label applied in so many different things. i like what ford said about comfort zones (my word, not his). i also think that we need to toss in selfishness yet distinguish it from self-development. to use ford's example, the people who just can't lose are clinging unnecessarily and selfishly to some inaccurate image they have of themselves. people who let go of that image and instead focus on growing through both success and failure.

one side strives to BE better because it can't comfortably accept failure. the other side strives to GET better and places no value judgments on success or failure as long as each brings the desired growth.

[Volcano Admim]

this ego stuff dont make sense to me.
in truth what you want is to be humble and respect others (oponents included) and dont underestimate others (oponents included again).

i mean, you dont even exist without your ego. No ego = no you. How can there be no focking you if im talking to YOU and YOU are answering.
i supose i can play the "enlightned one" that "has no ego", "has overcome fear, pain blah blah", "is focused on the colective and higher good" and whatever, but its not the truth.

[SifuAbel]

Actually in that sense the ego is the desciber of the world and the mediator of self image. It is that internal dialoge that tells you that you are you as you percieve to be and that the color of the fire hydrant is red.

Sometimes vanity, delusions of grandure, hubris, self importance or self pity is branded as ego. Wrongly so.

The Ego as a mental process is not your core being or core consciousness. What the "enlightened" view as being without ego is to bypass the describer and experience the world first hand without interuption from the describer. In other words, to see things without you coloring them in your fashion from within, or, leaving out that which was otherwise filtered.

[Chang Style Novice]

I overcome ego on a regular basis. It's always been very easy for me. I just toast it, cover it with syrup and eat it.

What?

[bamboo_ leaf]

I don’t think you can overcome it, but I think you can learn what it is, how it functions and be aware of it.

In this sense you can be free from its influence which is really pretty hard to do for most of us. Many of us are really attached to the way we view the world, we are attached to our fears which we use ego to respond against them.

many people are suprised because they may feel that they have no ego, but it is the ego that is telling them this. ;)

Next time you wonder why you did something stupid think about what really happened. To talk of over coming the Ego is also born of the ego. I don’t think it can be directly overcome in this way.

Learning how not to be attached to things is a way of not being controlled by the ego. i would say that when you find that stillness in your self, and are not self aware you are free from ego.

[Starchaser107]

ego is sense of self
without it you are no one..not even there how can you be aware of your surroundings if there isn't even a you.

that being said, maybe in order to grow one needs to have an impartial but personal judgement system, to evaluate what is useful from what is not.

there are however ppl with inflated egos. maybe or maybe not these people have a hard time advancing to higer levels in life. but ultimately , it is thier decision, and who is to say if it's a right or wrong thing for them?

maybe in terms of ego some people are too sensitive or attached to thier sense of self, to the point where it might be preventing them from interacting with other people normally, making them social misfits.
but in that case maybe its just a question of environment
maybe in a different environment they would thrive.

or maybe if they learned to adapt and not be so sensitive or attached to thier ego's they could adapt to any environment.

that is my perspective.

[bamboo_ leaf]

ego is sense of self
without it you are no one..not even there how can you be aware of your surroundings if there isn't even a you.

sounds like ego talking here ;)

people do things all the time with out being aware of themselvs, others who question it and call them heros. When questioned they usally respond that they did it with out thinking of it.

[No_Know]

At least this gets people thinking about it or articulating it.

"When somebody talks about Ego and overcoming it, what exactly does that mean to you?"

Ego

It means that they can be insulted or offended, embarassed or ashamed. It means that they pause if they think others think poorly of them. It means to me that they distract when they are cheered for. They, pause to taunt if I am hurt. They are sloppy or rush (go faster than they can handle) to look impressive.

Overcomming Ego

When I am not proud that I see the taunt/trap/carrots. When you insult me and I thank you, because I understand the mess of ripples if I try to hit you back. When I accept that I am thought lowly of whithout shame. When I do not get defensive because I think I am being laughed at...

When they go away cussing me...but they go away.

When I'm told I have manbreasts and think, yes, I do,( if I do) yet go on with whatever else--Oh well. When I'm told I'm wrong, but I'm not. Yet I go on without trying to/feeling I have to prove myself.

And if you think I am saying or that I think I have overcome Ego, then very good, oh well, that's legal, you're allowed to believe whatever you care to believe, whatever whatever, very good...

I No_Know

[TheBlackDragons]

I think A false ego , with weak skills just make you look stupid

. i am the type of person who would know my potential but keep my ego low
and people respect that. But it is a catch 22 situation

Ie. Bruce lee Is such a bad ass
With an ego and he desereves it and people still respect him
for ever

But over all it is the highest moral chacter
achevied to have a low ego and you will be respected more ,,,for the more skill you have

[Shaolinlueb]

let people have an ego, they're only destroying themselves.

[Ming Yue]

In answer to MP...

To transcend ego in the context of training means to lose all sense of self in relation to external influence and become completely and entirely of that particular moment. I have to fight for it, but when I'm able to do that in training is when I learn the most. It's the zone. it's that place where all you see are your opponent's open targets and he's moving in half time. You become what you are doing.

I don't think functioning modern adults can sustain constant egolessness, but kids can and often do, babies absolutely do, as can people who are for whatever reason in extremely predictable or controlled environments. It's a tough state to maintain, which is why entire religions embrace it as a divine state.


thread seemed a little trolly, but I bit anyway.

:p
:cool:

[SPJ]

Ego is when you know you're wrong, you still insist on it and not admitting you are wrong and continue on the wrong path.

When general Rummel was out of supply. The British Army was repleted with new supply from US.

Hilter was still insisting on Afrika Korp to attack. That is EGO.

If you are a Daoist or Buddhist, the first thing you do is to practice self-examination via meditation. Did I say something wrong, did I do something bad or unjust, why, how, now how should I change or mend the wrong.

You are constantly looking at yourself, what you do, what you say. You then start to have a sense of truth about yourself and everything by examining things critically over and over. That is meditation (Zen/chan/jhyanam/dhyanam).

What you have is then truth or wisdom. You have self esteem and self confidence. Because you know more about yourself and everything with each passing day via meditation and self examination.

One day with enough cultivation and meditation, you then reach enlightenment or release from doubts. What you have is a conviction with firm knowledge of yourself and everything.

This is several life times processes if need to.

Self examination every day may avoid a lot of wasted time and energy down the EGO trip.

Have a good journey of your life.

Peace.

Sorry sound preachy.

:cool:

[Volcano Admim]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
In answer to MP...

To transcend ego in the context of training means to lose all sense of self in relation to external influence and become completely and entirely of that particular moment. I have to fight for it, but when I'm able to do that in training is when I learn the most. It's the zone. it's that place where all you see are your opponent's open targets and he's moving in half time. You become what you are doing.

I don't think functioning modern adults can sustain constant egolessness, but kids can and often do, babies absolutely do, as can people who are for whatever reason in extremely predictable or controlled environments. It's a tough state to maintain, which is why entire religions embrace it as a divine state.


thread seemed a little trolly, but I bit anyway.

:p
:cool:

That stuff,
isnt trained, it just happened
happens a lot in sports for people with no idea what ego this ego that is
can happens to a soldier in nam while he destroys a viatcong vilage and kills children in the process too
can happen to a samurai cutting a buch of people
or to a cma dude doing some sparring

so,
i mean, the zone thing
is a state of mind that doesnt depend on being nice, or humble, or good - and the idea that the trad MA put about leaving the ego is about humbleness and such

dunno if what im saying is understandable words wise though

[rubthebuddha]

VA -- methinks what you're saying is how to act when you don't let your ego rule you. you know who you are and what you're capable of, but you're humble -- you don't have to show off to people to satisfy some stupid need.

am i close? :confused:

[Volcano Admim]

im saying good qualities and humbleness are dependant of how you shape your ego, or how it is shaped... so to say, but i dont think you can break away from yourself ultimately.
and that one can be ruled by ego and be good
and can be ruled by the collective and still be bad

so with or without ego
you can be good
or bad

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by red5angel
ego to me is a couple of things, in a bad context. First, if you allow yourself to believe you have more phat skeewz then you actually do, that's ego and it's bad. .

agree.........but I also think a little self acknowledgement is a great thing..........as opposed to saying you're better than another......when I acknowledge myself , that is not the same as saying I know everything, or that many others don't more ..........no matter the rave......it's open honest invitation for a lesson in my own direction...................

[Ming Yue]

Like you said in your second post, VA, Being humble and nice or being the opposite of that has little to do with 'overcoming ego', even in terms of martial arts. Humility is learned, we all start out as ego monsters.


Strict definition is "to be without self".

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

What was there before someone defined and categorized qualities of "self" and named it "Ego"? Ego is a set of contrived notions describing self-awareness and the choices we make to project that awareness in a light favorable to our own intentions.. Considering the current notion of Ego, it is the image we want others to believe we are.. and when that image is challenged it will defend itself.. it does so because it not only convinces others of what we are, it cleverly convinces us too..

Ego is the contradiction of the notion that we are co-depenent parts of a greater whole.. if we accept the notion that we are parts of a whole, that we exist as contributors and beneficiaries of each others relationship with the "whole", the Ego assumes a more correct role.. a compassionate and wholesome role.. yet, using the body as an analogy for the "whole", we recognize the unpleasant necessity to control and remove diseases and cancers.. the ego must first diagnose the full effect of dealing with infirmities of the body (whole).. but, ultimately, the ego must see itself and its host in a healthy relationship with ALL things, not a separate entity competing with other separate entities for individual survival.. in the end, "survival of the fittest" leaves one man standing alone.. he may be the fittest, but he will be the last of his kind...

Self-awareness is the gift that allows us to exist in the physical reality.. it can also be the weapon the ends that existence.. we are each no lesser nor greater than another and each has the right to exist.. any contradiction to that premise is evidence of an unbalanced ego..

Be well...

[Becca]

The majority of the senceless violence in this world is caused by people with ego problems. These are also the people who tend to think the world is "out to get them" or the world "owes them." Ironiclly, this person, at some point or other, is everyone. My goal as a martial artist, is to train myself to spot this dark side of my personality and learn not to take advise from it as much.

[Ming Yue]

awww...

but all the fun advice comes from my dark side...

[Becca]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
awww...

but all the fun advice comes from my dark side...
But is it still going to be fun down the road when you are paying for taking that advise?

[Starchaser107]

"awww...

but all the fun advice comes from my dark side..."


Ming that was just me man, I was just messing with you. I'll try to give you more meaningful tenets to live by in the future...:(

[bung bo]

i think TCB hit the nail on the head with this one.

here's my take on it. bear with me. i'm not very good with words. inflated ego...that's like when you're having a conversation with a non-MA friend or someone you just met and you "casually" do some MA stuff *ie. mantis catches cicada* so that person will ask you what you just did so you can now spend a bunch of time talking about yourself.

MA has definately been a big ego deflater for me. i've noticed a lot more guys than girls try harder not to try to look awkward there first few times in class ( maybe that was just me). but that doesn't happen to me anymore with new things. who is going to look like billy bad@ss the first time they do something, anyway? the fact that i practice and try hard and give it my all makes me feel good about myself. also being totally honest with yourself is VERY important.

[Ming Yue]

Chase,
are you saying you're my dark side?
I didn't realize you could outsource those things.

[Starchaser107]

O well I'll try to play nice

[Ming Yue]

remember that time in Girl Scouts when you tried to talk me into stealing the snack fund money?

I'm still ****ed at you about that.

:p

[Starchaser107]

as well you should be pizzed...

i'd be pizzed if i didn't listen to me either, stupid good shoulder angel.
I bet u regret not being able to buy that bike.

[MasterKiller]

"Shoulder angels" come from the Superego.

I thought you were supposed to be her Id?

Didn't you guys take psychology in high school? :p

[Starchaser107]

stay out of this good shoulder angel
can't you see you're ruining it for everybody

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
Like you said in your second post, VA, Being humble and nice or being the opposite of that has little to do with 'overcoming ego', even in terms of martial arts. Humility is learned, we all start out as ego monsters.


Strict definition is "to be without self".



how many of us really are though???......that's my point when you say it's my ego and I ask who's ego it is really...........I know I'm not perfect, but did you think you were????........and ow is your sangha when you're saying that???.......top lack of selfless expression...........I did study pschology and couselling and while I see it myself often, I also see it here from almost everyone in some capacity at some time.........it shows me how similar we are and while generally I won't call you on it, I do take comfort and a measure of acknowlegement regardless.

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I know I'm not perfect, but did you think you were??? and ow is your sangha when you're saying that???


:confused:

To what are you reffering? Are you using "you" in the abstract, collective sense?

my sangha is jim dandy.

I never said I was perfect.

I didn't allude to myself personally in any of my comments except to say that I had experienced moments of physical selflessness when training.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
When somebody talks about Ego and overcoming it, what exactly does that mean to you?

There is an idea, at least in the internal arts, that refers to certain partnered training methods which seem to take the form of each partner trying to defeat the other. This idea says that in fact this should not be your goal; rather, you should take the opportunity of the martial exchange to focus on a certain body mechanic and refine it as best you're able.

The related idea of "invest in loss" suggests that when we encounter a partner whose practice is still "ego driven" (ie. he is unwilling to give up the goal of defeating you in order to focus on a specific quality of martial movement), there is much to be gained by avoiding the same mistake and simply using this added pressure as further opportunity to refine your technique.

Of course, this is not a universal approach, but rather refers to one training approach among many.

I think this idea is reflected in many martial traditions that use partnered training. For instance, against a clearly inferior partner, a grappler may, in training, take neither the strategy of defeating him as ably as possible, nor in letting him win - but in using that opportunity to work on positions he is weaker in, let locks settle in further than usual to practice escapes, and so on. And of course, this can be done among equal partners too.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
:confused:

To what are you reffering? Are you using "you" in the abstract, collective sense?

my sangha is jim dandy.

I never said I was perfect.

I didn't allude to myself personally in any of my comments except to say that I had experienced moments of physical selflessness when training.


hmmmm........please don't be defensive, A. it was a generic comment and B. to those who find it applicable to themselves, they know what I 'm refering to........no doubt they'll disagree, but these are my thoughts regardless


amitopho

[CaptinPickAxe]

amitopho


pfffftHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahah...ha...ha...*snore * HUH!?! Oh....

[diego]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
When somebody talks about Ego and overcoming it, what exactly does that mean to you? You hear a lot of people pay lip service to it, but I don't think many of those same folk really have THOUGHT about what it means or can articulate it.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this. It's a big part of many people's MA practice but, I think, not put in context terribly often.

Thanks!

overcoming ego in martial arts to me is like that beginner who gets tossed on his butt trying to use fancy movements cuz they just feel so cool...like one will be like My style is the best most likely cuz they think it's so cool and prolly haven't tested all the other styles out there

so basically what i am saying is a lot of the martial art world is full of peeps stuck ego-tripping collecting forms doing weak sparring etc so when they get in a fight all that coolness of ones style gets thrown down the street while one gets tossed on ones butt.

it's all about getting to the bone marrow of the matter and not about just licking the meat namean? like buddy said it's all about that zone it's about this is a fight not ow that hurts i'm scared i don't want to scrap i will mess up my hair...basically it's about that zone and being able to get into that primal awareness place inside at will...so overcoming ego basically means imo keeping it real onsome Zen isht....it's about bieng badazz or about one's gangsta...losing all desires and just kicking it in the moment...prolly kinda like playing russian roulette like that one moment when you pull the trigger to get in the gang...you just like f it it's on it's on everything is everything and you move like an animal without your weak civilized thought processes...to me that's ego...everything that influenced you from growing up in your society...i don't think tigers sit there and check they makeup and isht namean they just kicking it...they have individual idnetities but i don't think they have that questioning mind that can hold us reformed monkey-humans back from the moment or what's happenning.

so yeah for MA it's about using what works keeping it real

from a spiritual perspect it's the same just keeping it natural...it;s like no need to go columbine cuz you a g-eek...it's the luck of the draw you were born a g-eek keep it real do something about it don't cry about it

so overcoming the ego is getting over wack influences from the past which makes us a very confused animal!.

make sence?.

[blooming lotus]

I just think that at times when i feel more special and times I feel less special or find my own personal geek, Its best to bench evaluation until not only can think of yourself and find a level postive perspective open to betterment and the value of others' contributions, but see yourself in a point in evoltoution of the spirit of humanity and know that you here and now on that level is othing more than a point you passed in the evoloution we all must go through, now , before or in time to come..........


dong , bu dong??

[Volcano Admim]

i might have contributed to the shrinking of my light side
if there si ever such thing as sides

but then again,
theres no beer on the light side like now
hahahaha lolfffffffff lol

[SPJ]

If you are a good fighter, everybody knows that.

If you fight well or the best you could, even though you lose, every body knows that.

If you are a lousy fighter, hopefully you know that first before anybody else.

If you do not fight well, hopefully you know that and learn to improve.

Everybody will respect an honest effort.

The problem is that if you do not know about yourself well, nobody is able to help you.

What you "think" about yourself does not change the fact that you are good or not. (EGO).

Confidence is based on knowledge of your self and the opponent.

Zi Gi Zi Bi Bai Zhan Bai Sen.

Know yourself. Know the opponent. Every fight will be a win. (Sun Tzu, 2500 years ago)

Practice to know yourself and your Wushu.

Practice to know your opponent (strength and weakness).

You win by avoiding his strongpoint and hitting his weakness.

Leave your ego behind at home, in your bathroom and what not.



:)

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
i might have contributed to the shrinking of my light side
if there si ever such thing as sides

but then again,
theres no beer on the light side like now
hahahaha lolfffffffff lol


unless youre considering health as being on the light side.........didn't you read that report........a beer two or several are good for health.......and provides often needed calories and.....ahhh.......******.....I'm sure there was more.....lol :D :D :D

[blooming lotus]

ps........how good is a "good" fighter anyway..........for as good as you are there willalways be someone better..........


there a saying somewhere that goes something like ...........****** I forgot........but I think it was the from the Dalai and btw similar to ...think you're the best, lax a little and drop the ball. In the mean time, Mr. nobody back there is working his as* off and so on and so on............


Maybe it's not the person who's so great but the cirucumstance, all peoples' potential being equal............


judgement is a confusing derailing b*tch!!!!

[SPJ]

Agreed.

A few drinks a day will lower your cholestrol and prevent heart attack or stroke.

Sun Tzu Bin Fa (2500 yeas ago).

The Yellow emporer fought numerous tribal wars and became the first ruler of China 5000 years ago.

Sun Tzu Bin Fa is the first Bin Shu (military sutra) and summarized arts/ways of war based on 2000 years of warfare.

There are 13 chapters and over 6000 words.

It is widely studied by Japanese, Russian, French, too.

There is a section mentioning how to be a general. how to be prudent, how to plan, how to gather info,-- no mentioning of EGO.

Morale, confidence by all means are necessary.

I think it depends on what you defined EGO then.

[SPJ]

I think if you know what you are doing, that is all that important.

Yes, good or bad is a relative term.

There is always a deeper lake. There is always a higher mountain.

There will always be somebody "better" than you. True.

If you do what you can, or the best you "can", then you are good already.

Peace.

[SPJ]

How do you know you are good?

If you know you will win or not before the fight or winning odds.

If you know the opponent's strongpoints and weakness.

If you know how to avoid his strongpoints and take advantage of his weakness.

If you win by outsmart, outmaneuver and outskill the opponent.

If you win by the least amount of fight.

If you win by no fight.

If you fight only when you know you will win. which means if you know you will lose, do not fight.

If you simply said to yourself, you are good. that is not enough. You have to "know". You believe what you learn to know. Or follow a blind faith that you are good. (EGO)

Peace.

[blooming lotus]

but then if you tell yourself you won't win or succeed, you are nueroloically setting yourself up for failure............think it say it hear it believe and acheive it :D

[SPJ]

Agreed.

In that respect, it is the greatest motivation of all.

A little engine thinks I can.

Thomas Edison invented and invented ever so many.

Madame Currie.

Winston Churchill delivered speeches to keep the British fight on in the darkest time of her history. At the time, the odds against Hitler were ever so low.

On the other hand, the French was totally depending on the impenetrable defense line, which the German bypassed.

:cool:

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
When somebody talks about Ego and overcoming it, what exactly does that mean to you? You hear a lot of people pay lip service to it, but I don't think many of those same folk really have THOUGHT about what it means or can articulate it.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this. It's a big part of many people's MA practice but, I think, not put in context terribly often.

Thanks!

I'm glad you asked what fighting ego means to me. I'm going to answer your question for free, not only because my knowledge is worth more than you could possibly afford anyway, but because I am what better men than you would call beneficient.

Fighting ego is pretty much solved by as close to realistically fighting other people and not being a ****y winner or loser, and when you run out of people who can beat you, find more, etc and so on, until you are old and feeble. For some, it helps to have a complex system of beliefs that explain all of this in glowing terminology, for others, the daily beatings should suffice.

Now, if you happen to be one of those prodigies that have no other prodigies to fight nearbly, then, once you have become skilled enough that none can touch you, expose yourself to a nun and go to court defending yourself, and you should soon have grown sufficiently humble.

If you happen to be a lawyer, there is no hope.

Anyhoo, if I'm training, my goal should be to not always be the best around me, or what am I really learning? And if I become the best, and can find no better, it is just one skill, I should keep it in perspective.

[Chang Style Novice]

Originally posted by SPJ
On the other hand, the French was totally depending on the impenetrable defense line, which the German bypassed. ...those beer-guzzling, frite-gobbling, miserable, fat, Bloody Belgian B@stards!

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by SPJ


...Thomas Edison invented and invented ever so many.

....At the time, the odds against Hitler were ever so low.



SPJ, you have a decidedly Shirley Temple thing going on with your posts.

[SPJ]

I was trying to have a candid conversation with BL.

I agreed to her point 1000%.

And then I present -1000% counterpoint.

I overdid it I guess, I have goose bumps myself.

I dragged the discussion of personal ego into an expanded EGO discussion.

I even dragged the Yellow emporer, Sun Tzu, the British, the French, and the German in.

Sorry. Pardon. Entschuldigung.

Peace.


:D

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
Anyhoo, if I'm training, my goal should be to not always be the best around me,


agree.....I shoot for the best I can acheive and measure my successes only on personal betterment.........that way resent is never an issue an you're always on top


my own best and mosthonest critic ;)

[SPJ]

Agreed.

Learn from the best. and aim for the best. Study and practice to be the best.

I like Shirley Temple though.

I watched all her movies while growning up in the "60.

Hey. I like John Wayne, Bruce Lee and ---, too.

[qeySuS]

To overcome ego is to not care if you win or lose in training IMO. Rather looking at the big picture then the small. For example say you´re competing in BJJ, and you´re really good on your back, in training you can just pull guard and do well against everyone in class, that is, always be the "winner". But then perhaps in competition you get an opponent that prefers guard as well and he manages to be on bottom and you lose

To overcome your ego you must deal with losing a lot to win in the end. So in the example above, you must put yourself in the position you are bad at, and deal with losing a lot even to people you feel you are better then, and you don´t really want to lose to (i know this feeling all too well). But you must do this in order to get far. This is also applicable through other ranges.

For example i´ve often seen some practitioners from other arts come into BJJ class. They are used to being the king of their castle, being the top in their school. But now they're doing something completely different, they are at the bottom of the ranking and have to deal with a lot of losing before they can start winning. Many don´t like this and just quit and go back to their respective art and stay there. I'm sure the same is true also for BJJ crossovers into standup.

[blooming lotus]

right...........becase if you never "loose" you never learn anything ................

[kosovo]

What an incredibly valid topic. Ego is such a powerful force in the human mind. Many times ego can distract. I know I'm not the only person who wonders; "hey, am I being watched," or I know they see the practice I've put in."

Lately, I've found myself acknowledging this human trait, then trying to move on. It seems to be much more of a distraction to my training. Ego can fuel a type of MA Anxiety when other people are around that is detrimental to training.

Also, I'm sure eveyone has met an ***hole that has serious ego problems. I knew one when I was training in Chang Style Tai Chi in Austin, Tx.

This guy suffered from serious short guy syndrome, and practice Gracie Jui Jitso on the side. When we were doing push-hands and sticky hand training, this jerk never wanted to lose. The irony of the situation was laughable, because I would yeild and pull him off balance almost every time. Its not that I was any better than him, but his ego defeated him before he even acted.

Lastly, I believe that with a little loss, comes little gain. When you let go of ego and suffer a big loss, you gain much more and typically don't repeat the same mistakes (A.k.a. Get smacked on the crown of the head....)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Sometimes i think "Ego" is what we use when we don't really understand "who we are"...

Be well...

[blooming lotus]

right.......I don't know how relevant this is, but each time I enter a class my teacher-students gasp and sigh, ssaing "aaahhh...sooo so beautiful"...and I get offended............who gives 2 shi*s what you look like...If Im "beautiful" does that mean comparitvale you're ugly?????.......what a load of sh*t!!!!........like I said ...If you're doing comparisons , sooner or later you're going to be on the other end, and what a bit(h to have your validity and whathaveyou, as an equally valued person dictated by how someone else looks!!!!!!.............like I said....A. you should see what I've seen backstage pre-hair and make-up model wise and B. a little of each and anyone's a super model..............big mother freakin deal.............in my class we're there to learn, and I'm still sorting myself out ( brave confession as an adult I feel....) but why do I want to worship you exactly???...........pedastle shmedistle.......... ( specfic skill acknowledgement and humble requset to learn from masters aside)............I see greatness in all who s*ck..............it's nothing more than undevelped potenetial in an undesairable circumstance............WHO says the ideal circumstance isn't around the corner and you will be the respective dag/geek/ unskillled player?????...it's happened many a time before and will no doubt happen in future..............





we are the sum of our potential making all of us equal...............so I've been led to believe.............

take care


BL

[Merryprankster]

Of all that I have read, Ford comes the closest to my thoughts on the subject.

Ego's a funny thing. Ego can get you to a certain point - and that point can be pretty **** far depending on your natural abilities and your willingness to work hard.

But at the end of the day, ego doesn't like to be embarressed. People talk about ego in the context of practice, but that's easy for ego to handle. If you're working on new stuff and somebody kicks your butt, it's no big deal. You were working on new stuff after all, and ego can pop up with it's little voice and tell you that if you had been using your "A" material, things would have been different. Besides, ego wants to get better, so you've gotta practice the new stuff.

Where ego really kicks in is when you're up against the best. You might have the stuff to win, but ego is more concerned with getting embarressed. If you lose, but keep it close, people can sit around and tell you what a great job you did against that guy! So ego gets preserved. You lost, but you lost close against the best.

But if you open up - if you go balls out to win and take the risks you have to take in order to win, then you might lose big time. You might get caught. And then you're just another bump on the road to this guy's success. And you can't win when you're worried about losing.

Ego can get you to the level of your toughest opponent. But it won't take you beyond them.

It's not an issue of caring about winning or losing - the very best in the world HATE losing. And they are willing to risk embarressment in order to win because they don't care about "embarressment." That word doesn't exist for or mean anything to them when it comes to the activity in question.

[rogue]

The only thing to say is, wow. That makes so much sense but I never looked at it that way before.

[KC Elbows]

Interesting. Makes sense.

I think ego is something people strive with in different ways. When I was younger in my first style, I thought I was the deadly and my art was the end all be all, which was bad for my training and, more importantly, very bad for myself. Later I purposefully worked on seeing martial arts as no more valid a practice than carpentry, perhaps less so, and that was good for my practice.

For you, it's very competition based, which is your background. For me, I have no plans on being the best, I work hard and I fight as hard as I can, but other things take priority, so I'm content just trying hard for all my years. I'd like to try a full contact competition sometime, but I'm also outside of the age range where that's a good idea, so one might be all I get the chance for.

It's not very important to me to conquer ego to be a better fighter, but to conquer ego to try and be a better person is far more important, and while I'm not particularly good at that either, it is how I've made any gains toward that goal, and often in martial arts.

Not sure what my point was, just needed that one more post count.

[Merryprankster]

Yeah, I was definitely approaching it from a competition mindset. But you can carry the base motivation (not being embarressed) over to just about any activity.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Yeah, I was definitely approaching it from a competition mindset. But you can carry the base motivation (not being embarressed) over to just about any activity.

Yeah, the source of how you overcome ego I think doesn't make as much difference as actually doing it.

Don't you think, though, that the element that drives you to conquer ego, to some extent, is ego based? Not just you, but in your case, your goal is to be the best, and conquering ego is a way to be the best, and being a better person is just a side benefit of the practice? Which sort of puts on the sidelines the more important part?

Again, this isn't specifically aimed at you, you seem to be a good person, just discussion for discussion's sake. For me, my cause for conquering ego was to undo things I did in the past as king of self rightious *****s, but I reached a point where my zealousness in making everything right and being a moderate voice was even more self rightious, and my need to be a good person turned into me doing things that good people do, and nothing more, and only when I just let myself be me, and made it clear that sometimes I'm an idiot, did I find that I was more often spontaneously being a good person out of core values.

I don't know if that makes any sense whatsoever.:D

[Merryprankster]

I would tend to think that it is goal based.

Motivation kind of matters. You do these things for the challenge of them. If you did it to kick peoples asses, that's a bit different.

A person who does it to kick people's asses can almost never be the best because they personally invest their ego in every match. If somebody gets inside their head by making it close or through putting them in a bad position re: winning, then they'll lose.

Check out Tito Ortiz vs. Randy Couture. Great example. Tito has gotten by on talent and a decent work ethic, but he hasn't mastered the mental aspect. I personally don't like him because I think he's just out to beat people. Randy's different. And Randy got inside Tito's head in the first round and it was over. You could just see it.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]

But at the end of the day, ego doesn't like to be embarressed.

an "embarressed" ego is a red flag for developement , cue to reality check and prompt for learning something about yourself and humanity...................


PS: you are not perfect.........but that's okay, because neither am I .or him.or her.................;)